Yes, I would keep snooping, but additionally, you should get the information about the OM. Find out if he is married and where he lives. A big part of the strategy in saving your marriage will be to expose the affair to the OM's wife and his family. Can you hire a PI to tail your wife and to get background info on the OM?

And please keep in mind that the things we are telling you are for the intent of saving your marriage. We aren't telling you these things to discourage you, but to help you see the situation as it really is.

Please go to the forum below "surviving and affair" called "operation investigate" and read and absorb.

It doesn't matter what the om did or doesn't do. We know they usually do affair down in some form. But your wife is trying to sell a lie to you that is simply counter to reality.

Like trying to convince you the sky is green. My xwh used to do that. It IS called gaslighting and is a form of emotional abuse. He used to try to make me think I didn't see or hear what I thought I did and your ww is trying to make you think she went to a hotel room to TALK to a married man who simply used the hotel room to shower up and shave and clean up after an honest days' work so he could drive home all squeaky clean and nice for his wife.

And is she BLAMING you and accusing you that you are all wrong, that you just simply are paranoid or accusatory? That you are just blowing things up out of proportion? Is she? If so, that's gaslighting.

You snoop, you snoop, you GET the evidence you need and you expose. If she goes on and on about things or tries to gaslight you, you do have the right always of course, to tell her that "sweetie, we both know what happens in hotel rooms when men and women who aren't married to each other go into them and shut the door behind them. I'm not a fool." You have to nicely let her know you don't buy the crap.

Meanwhile, you go get the proof. She'll probably get on edge, but do not tip your hat to what you are doing. When you DO find all the evidence, you then expose. Read up on the STICK part of plan A. Read up on exposure after you go to operation investigate to find out how to combat this affair.

Nobody deserves to be gaslighted.

So, how do I "tag" a phone There are many tools depending on the phone. Smartphones can have spyware downloaded to relay all text/email/call-logs to a web site for logging it and GPS her location all at the same time. Go to www.mobistealth.com. Thats one of many.
You can save your M. It will take killing the A first. And no the difference isn't attraction its that he is filling her Emotional Needs (EN'S) better than you are. So after killing the A you do a stellar plan A and fill those EN's yourself.She will babble stuff like "we have grown apart" and other crap. IGNORE IT! its called fog babble.
This is going to be a war that you must win. Be prepared by snooping and getting your intel. Then in one swift motion drop the Exposure bomb. This is a KEY STEP to kill the A! Dont be scared or shy TELL EVERYONE that may influence her or that she may be embarrassed by with the truth. She will be mad. Ignore it! Tell her you Love her and are committed to saving your M but that the OM has to go.
Sad Dad this is going to be the most painful experience of your life. But know this for sure, if your M can recover things will be better than ever before. The principals of DR H when applied work.
I will tell you if you are anything like me and others here go ahead and see your MD. Ask him for something to help you through what is the most stress you will ever feel. Come here often to get council from these fine folks. It will help you decipher her babble and give you strategies to save your M.
Strap on the flack jacket and tighten your boot laces, lock and load! Its war time!

I read your story on the train this morning and feel very bad for you. You stood out to me because of your birth year. We�re the same age.

So now you face the ugly truth and are searching for answers to the path you need to follow. Your head knows what your heart is denying. You WANT to believe your WW when she tells you that she didn�t do anything with this man other than talk. I was there. I too told myself that my WXW was telling me the truth that she limited herself to only flirting with the men she communicated with online. That wasn�t the case at all.

My friend, I won�t beat the dead horse. Your wife didn�t go to a hotel to talk. Everyone has already mentioned the reasons why.

That being said, what you need to do now is follow the advice on this board. I didn�t listen and I did everything wrong. I followed what felt right to me, which is very different than what needs to be done.

The best advice I received when I was going through my own he77 was that I needed to be ice cool. Think James Bond cool, Bruce Lee cool. Lower your emotional state and emulate these guys in order to do what must be done. Do not react to her emotions. She will lose it in every way if you follow the advice you�re given here. She will tell you that you ruined any chance to save things if you do what you must do.

It�s all the blithering fog babble of an addict. Think of it as taking away the crack pipe from a user. The user will be ticked off and come after you.

But it must be done.

A big part of this is making the path of divorce look as ugly and nasty as possible while the path of reconciliation looks better. That means the plan A part, but don�t be afraid to show the stick of plan A. That means that you dispel any notions she may have that you will simply lie down and take a divorce without a fight or that you won�t pursue that path yourself if you feel it�s necessary.

If your WW insists on continuing this contact, then make it clear that you won�t stay in a marriage where she is having an affair. Tell her, very calmly, that if she goes down that path you will file for divorce if necessary on the grounds of adultery and will pursue sole physical and legal custody of the kids. Will you get it? No. But the purpose of this is to engage in psychological warfare. Let her know she stands to lose it all over her lover.

Once you�re done telling her that, let her know that you�d much rather save things, but that it can�t happen unless there is no contact for life with this other man and she must put that in a letter and have it mailed to him.

You will not recover your marriage unless this happens and counseling while she�s in contact is a waste of time.


You also need to expose to your kids in an age appropriate way. They probably already know something is up.

Best of luck.

And you need to make the other man's life hell. Find out where he lives, contact his wife and tell her what you know. She will be your greatest ally.

(even if his "wife" is now his "ex-wife" as she still may care what he's doing and more likely cares very much who her xh may be exposing her child to)

Mr. w

I hope we haven't lost you . . . .

No, I'm still here, just feeling down.

Brilliant! I didn't even think of Occam, but you are spot on with the logic. The only thing I'd add is that as a guy, I could never imagine spending 65-125 bucks for a hotel room to talk for an hour or two...

CV

Agreeing with the others...

This is a PA.
It is still going on.
You need to expose far and wide.... not only his wife, but his mom and dad, all your friends and family.... etc.

Let that bomb explode, see where the dust settles.

Update:
Things went well on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday somewhat with just going through the norm with the family, etc.

Then on Thursday, she leaves work and goes out to the bar without letting me know anything and then when I call she blows me off telling me it's Cinco de Mayo and she'll be home later. I went to the restaurant and she was only with her two girlfriends and then I went home and went to bed.

Last night, we are talking while she is at work and I'm asking if she wants to get a movie and she informs me she is going out again with her two friends. Only this time I ask a few simple considerate questions such as: where are you going, can you stay in town, when are you coming home? She states she doesn't know and then has to get off the phone.

A friend and I use her car and stakeout my wife until she leaves work and she immediately leaves town to meet him at another hotel. I'm frantic, hurting and talking to my mother and my aunt trying to determine what to do. After about 30-45 minutes, we decide to confront them so my friend (female who just lost her husband to another woman) convinces the manager to open the door if they don't come out. They do and they are both completely dressed and the bed hasn't been touched. I know I need to face the PA reality, but I still don't believe they have gotten that far YET. My friend talks to my wife for about 30 minutes and then my wife comes down to talk to me for about 15 minutes. She asks for 20 minutes to finish talking to him, and we leave. She does come home about 45 minutes later.

We spent the 5 1/2 hours talking about all the issues haunting us. I've only got the few currently going on but she is reaching back into the last 12 years of marriage. She's clearly far babble. I've read on here about SAA, but I don't know how to counter this. I've exposed to my friends and family and hers, but I have not exposed to his yet. I suppose that's the next step.

She claims she loves me but with me has come some great hurt over the years and she's in love with him. So she's torn. She has stuck to the story that she went 11 days without talking to him, but he called her at work yesterday afternoon to check up on her and let her know he would be in the area if she wanted to talk. It hurts SO much to she her driving so fast last night to get to his hotel room. She's also not accepting much guilty or responsibility for the A, just blaming me and me not listening to her for the last few years.

She says he does only wants her happy, but I hear what she's repeating he's said and he's REALLY working her. If I attempt to do the same, I'm only out for me and not her.

I'm at a lose, WHAT NOW?

If I talk about how this will affect our kids and how she's throwing away 16 years together, she get upset stating I'm using guilt on her or I'm being manipulative.

On another note, we did seem to be on track last week to a recovery, but then I told her mother who confronted her and then I told her co-worker/best friend who also broke down to her. She claims I've betrayed her and hurt/angered her past the point of getting to a new starting point.

I don't think you understand what constitutes recovery and what doesn't. You were not on track to recovery at all and seem to have confused peace at all cost with real recovery. Appeasing a wayward is NOT recovery. As you can see it only led to your wife going off to shag her boyfriend in a hotel room. It does not matter if she is upset. Your marriage can survive her anger, it won't survive an ongoing affair. So it is important that you focus on running off the OM instead of keeping the peace at all costs. Appeasement will gain you nothing but an entrenched affair.

It doesn't matter if she calls you manipulative or if you use guilt on her. You must stop paying attention to that and focus on saving your marriage.

Expose the affair TODAY to the OM's side of the family and anyone else who doesn't know. Raise holy hell in the affair and don't stop until it is killed. Expose to EVERYONE on your wife's side. Your children, her family everyone.

This is the equivalent of bringing in a crowd of people to watch the crackheads get high. It ruins the high and makes the crackheads feel silly. And of course they are angry, so what?

And I am sorry to tell you this, but this affair is physical. They do not go to hotel rooms to sing church hymns.

Ok, did you follow our suggestions to expose to the OMW?

What about all your kids? Have they been told?

If you have not exposed to the OMW, then I don't believe you are serious about saving your marriage and are just wasting our time. This should have already been done. You have their address. Why not just drive there? TODAY.

It's a two hour drive to his house and I still don't know if they are still married. How would I find this out? Call and ask?

I am serious, I'm just afraid of losing her by pissing her off more atm and she's already telling me that's one of the reasons she's drawn to him because he doesn't appear to be hurt her by doing all I've done. I'm trying to enjoy and make the most of each and every day with her.

I love and will miss her dearly if I lose her.

Expose the affair to our kids? Wouldn't that damage their view of her forever? They are 6, 11, and 14.

With that attitude why not invite him into your bedroom, after all you are saying your afraid, afraid of what saving your marriage? You are enabling the affair , get up and start acting and behaving like a husband who is fighting an intruder who is going to wipe your family out, if you don't believe that wait till she divorces you to live her fantasy.

If you can't find his wife track down his coworkers, friends , parents anyone who will make him hide away, everyone who knows him to ensure he cannot walk around without stares and comments.

Sad Dad, please listen to MelodyLane! Please don't be so naive as to assume that this affair is not physical! Why do you suppose they would pay money to 'talk' when they could sit at a park for free??

You're best bet is to expose this to OMW. THis should have been done already.

Now she's telling you that she is 'in love' with OM. Are you waiting to act until she tells you she's leaving you for OM? What are you waiting for??

If you can track her to a hotel and get the manager to open their door, you're made of sturdy stuff. Use that same strength to kill this affair. Expose to OMW, Sad. Save your M.

No, telling the truth doesn't damage kids. What would damage them is if you end up getting a divorce which is where this is heading if you continue to enable the A.

Dr. Harley advocates exposing the affair to the kids. It helps to defog the WS and it also tells the kids that the tension/marital problems are NOT their fault.