Hi Chickadee,

It is hard to advise w/o some of the details of the latest exposure. It certainly sent you in a tailspin, so it must more than a casual hurt.

Just on the surface it does appear that your WH is a serial cheater, would you agree?

I believe I have one too, so I can sympathize with you.

Best,

ba

total serial! just got the full list... its very long. I am not angry yet, i am just stunned that this has been going on for so many years and so many people, not just the 4 indescretions mentioned the complete list has 20. not all sex, but still bad in my book.

i cannot even speak, i have no words, i am definately the strong one and i am shocked into silence.

I do think he need to go for a bit, i need to wrap my little brain around all of this.

its just too much

Some thoughts:

It's safe to assume your H is a serial cheater...

There is one radio show in the archives about serial cheaters. (If you want to listen and can't find it, lmk and I will get the link for you) Dr Harley says some people get addicted to one OP and there are some people who are addicted to affairs but he says the treatment is the same ~ eliminate the environment that allowed the serial cheating to happen (EPs) & integrate your lifestyles so that you spend all of your free time together.

The problem now w/trickle truth ~ you said he gave you the "full list"? I am sorry, but I wouldn't trust that until you have the poly done.

Have you seen Joseph's Letter? Some folks have given a copy of this to their WSs to help them understand how important it is to get the full truth... LMK if you want it.

NW brings up a good point ~ and that is if in the past when he has been truthful with you, if you have had AOs or DJs, that is going to make it that much harder for him to come clean. He is accustomed to having a SSL (secret second life) so radical honesty is going to be a struggle for him and you are going to have to help him [This is a problem of my H's and what I was on the radio show for...]

Lastly, if I were you and I thought I would be wanting to try to recover this, I would ask him to come back home, but of course, you need to do what feels right to you.

{{chicka}}

uugghh just wrote this all out and then it was gone... i cannot use the quote thing

It's safe to assume your H is a serial cheater...100% right on that!

There is one radio show in the archives about serial cheaters. (If you want to listen and can't find it, lmk and I will get the link for you) Dr Harley says some people get addicted to one OP and there are some people who are addicted to affairs but he says the treatment is the same ~ eliminate the environment that allowed the serial cheating to happen (EPs) & integrate your lifestyles so that you spend all of your free time together. If you have the link handy great, but i will also look. i wrote addiction on the top of my journal as soon as i read his note and list. we have been actively working the program, i mean heavy into it. and things were going great, he was saying wow, things can be like this, this is awesome. he was getting clarity on many things including what love is...

The problem now w/trickle truth ~ you said he gave you the "full list"? I am sorry, but I wouldn't trust that until you have the poly done. i agree, playing phone tag with the poly guy... My friend has used him in the past and said he is the only one he trusts. i kinda believe that the list said it all, it was very detailed. When i was set to do it before ( you only have 4 good questions) my question was, is there anything else that you have not told chickadee? should it be the same. he wrote the note, i wouldnt let him read it to me i read it, so he didnt actually say the words.

Have you seen Joseph's Letter? Some folks have given a copy of this to their WSs to help them understand how important it is to get the full truth... LMK if you want it. yes please!

NW brings up a good point ~ and that is if in the past when he has been truthful with you, if you have had AOs or DJs, that is going to make it that much harder for him to come clean. He is accustomed to having a SSL (secret second life) so radical honesty is going to be a struggle for him and you are going to have to help him [This is a problem of my H's and what I was on the radio show for...]- i really have not had any AO or DJ, last night i made a snide comment then apologized. actually in the part of his note, he said it broke him when i kissed him on the head and said it would be ok. i did thank him for telling me tonight, i guess i am stunned into silence for the first time. i am just very quite, trying to absorb it all.

Lastly, if I were you and I thought I would be wanting to try to recover this, I would ask him to come back home, but of course, you need to do what feels right to you.

i know he is feeling very naked right now and completely exposed. i think i need just a bit of time to get my head to a place where i can be productive. he called already and understands why i need some time. I asked that he continue working the program, not shut down, behave, think of what a good marrige looks like, all of those things.
he will bring me breakfast tomorrow, i think he thinks i am gonna waste away = stress.

sorry for that long double post, i cannot work the quote thing- i am gonna test on this

ok maybe got it now, you have to highlight the text... derrr

OK, here's the clip on serial cheating:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=578


Here's Joseph's Letter:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

perfect thank you

suzie, sugar and pep- do you have links about your stories? you come in here and spread fairy dust, how did you get to that place?

It's been awhile. 15.5 years.
I did all the post adultery work without the benefit of MB.
I could have avoided so many mistakes (big giant stinking lovebusting) if we'd had MB back in the day.

But, anywho, here is a brief outline of my story.
LINK

Our 30 year anniversary is next week !!!

If you click on my name, and go to the last page of my posts, that's where my first thread is. I have another one on the recovery board and that one has to do with the problems we had with O&H ~ that one may be harder to find since it's more towards the middle of the posts. If you want to read it, lmk & I can link it for you.

This is awesome!

that it is awesome!

my prob now is that so many of the years he was philandering. i dont want to count them.

thanks for the links! so much easier!

How many?

uggh, the list says
3-OW- sex
2 OW oral
3 make outs-
and a bunch of dates the left before physical ( ok i find that hard to belive).

reading it makes me shake, sorry

Not meaning to sound cavalier, but do you think that's all of them?

from the his behavior probably, but i am still doing the poly- he wants it scheduled this week if possible, he is ready to prove that that is it, he understands why i wouldnt believe him.

He is a mess, i mean a mess. the last two pages were like, my name is xxx and i am a liar. I am a monster, selfish, cold distant, weak. and that goes on for another page. he has lied to everyone, he does not expect forgiveness at all. this was big confession note.

he is waiting/hoping to see if i will be able to move forward but unstantand why i may not and doesnt expect me too.

he said i think he is a monster, liar, .... I told him i never thought that, or said that. those were possibly his feelings about himself. I said you never asked me what i thought you were. I guess i should write what i think he is down on paper for myself.

I am just in a state of shock- listen i asked for the full truth and i am getting it, i knew it was going to happen, its just had when it does.

many posters here are encouraged to leave a serial cheater, i am getting the feeling that i have more supporters for the opposite- just curious, what makes it different.

I think it is important to recognize the facts and to deal with the facts.

His being a big mess is a good sign.
Unless he makes this all about him & his pain.
BRB to post a link.....

chicka, a lot of people will support you either way you want to go. It is really up to you!

Exactly !

This ** LINK ** will take you to DancesWithGoats' first major thread.
She began the thread dealing with the knowledge that her H (MB poster Greenmile) had a 6 year A with one woman. Later, it was revealed to her that in addition to that 6 year affair, Greenmile had been unfaithful the ENTIRE length of their 26 year marriage. Mostly with hookers.


I personally thought she would dump him.
She did not.
When the truth of his past was discovered, Greenmile (a retired physician) had a breakdown and was hospitalized.
I thought she'd dump him.
She did not.
I do not know the current status of their marriage, they post on the private forum with Dr Harley, I do not.

I could support DWG in her decision to stay married. or to divorce GM.
She made her decisions step by step and not foolishly or wishfully.
There was (is ?) a huge amount of anger for DWG to deal with. Her anger nearly sank recovery a few times.

She only moved forward with GM after he made serious changes to his life.

Still, the struggle to overcome resentment after this sort of long term betrayal is pretty formidable !

My advice to you is to wait to make a non-emotionally charged decision.
You can always leave this marriage.