That has nothing to do with being a "taker." If she were falling down drunk would you not take away her car keys because you didn't want to be a "taker?" That is not what Dr Harley intended at all. Remember the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger.


I understand completely. And it might be in your best interest to not continue your marriage. But it is not in your best interest to leave your home regardless of what you decide. NOR is it in ANYONE'S best interest to keep her affair a secret whether you stay in your marriage or not. Exposing it everywhere will help the fog wear off. And no, she is not remorseful. If she were remorseful, she would be leaving the job and taking steps to save her marriage.

Markos is right. It is even WORSE to be a total GIVER. Extreme giving leads to extreme taking. You are leaning to one extreme at the expense of your wife and your marriage.

Man this site is well moderated. I like the carrot and the stick article, those are good things to keep reminding myself.

No children, but we do have a dog and that right there could be a reason to stay Love my dog

I do not like conflict (who does) but i think its more how i approach it. It's easy to walk away but i realize that life is not that simple, grass isn't always greener and this person is my best friend in the world and I owe it to her to at least hear her out and not disappear forever.

Part of me is scared about what I find out or how I might need to change and am I willing to do the things she wants to make her happy. Is she worth fighting for?

We have been together married 6 yrs and dating for 6 years before that. And i was naive in thinking my wife would never cheat on me.

My wife has expressed that I do not give her the emotional needs she requires in the past and I didn't listen. Common mistake by many guys and just shows how you better treat your women right or she will have a profile on ashleymadison

Hard for me to get past the infidelity, an attraction, a kiss, even a one night stand would be an easier pill to swallow. and i need to decide if i can ever be intimate with her again and let go of the fact she was with another man. I know I'm the only one that can decide that.

I had my first professional listener, a counselor the other day. It was a nice vent session but at a cost of $200 (need better insurance),the one thing i got out of my session was if there is one small part of me that thinks there is a chance to work it out that I need to give it a try.

I read a book a couple years ago about enlightenment I need to re-read it. It talked a lot about ego and how much control it has on you and that i need to forget about the past, and focus on the now, live in the moment. And to take the zen buddha approach to things. So my rambling point is......

I need to make sure I go into my initial discussion with my wife in a calm, cool, respectful attitude and make sure I don't do anything to cause more, make love bank withdrawls.

I'm very nervous about what I want to really say and what I know I need to say. The ego in me wants to lash out and blame her,

But after reading this site's advice it really reminded me about that book, be the person that just says im sorry for everything and just apologize. "I'm sorry for leaving and running away etc etc" and make sure not to bring up things that will be negative. I need to be open to learning what this affair gave her and can I do those things for her or not.

I need to learn to lock the affair in the vault and never bring it up every again...that is a tough one.

I need to basically do the exact opposite or what im thinking just like George Castanza on Seinfeld would do. "My name is George, I unemployed and live at home with my Parents."

Ok sorry for the long email again

PS :::: Marriage builder is a great site but you need a new site design ...so if you are listening check me out would love to help you guys out. http://www.puredesigngroup.com

__________________

BS 40
WS 37
dog
A w/Coworker

I was referring to this about your initial discussion with her....thanks for your advise

When you have this discussion, there is the Taker in you (see the Giver & Taker in my Basic Concepts) that will tell you to express your resentment over how much she has hurt you. Your Taker may even encourage you to let her lover have this ungrateful woman, so that you can find someone who will love you the way you are. You will be tempted to lose your temper, to say disrespectful things, try to straighten her out, and give her ultimatums.

If you do any of these things, she will find you repulsive, and withdraw from you more than she already has. It will get you nowhere.

On the other hand, if you can convince her that her feelings are important to you, and you are dedicated to make decisions that are in her best interest, it will add greatly to your credibility. Right now, she is not convinced that you have put her first in your life. Convince her otherwise.

Dbyl, you have one task , kill the affair permanently , get her out of that job if she declines expose her to the workplace as undoubtably they have used company time and resources to conduct the affair.

Your marriage will never even start to recover until this is done.

Dbyl, understand one thing: only YOU stand in the way of your WW and her OM. I've read your thread and you seem to be paving the way for them to be together! Is that what you want?

You are reading Dr. Harley's concepts but you are misapplying them. You ABSOLUTELY have the right to DEMAND that she end the affair! This is a direct assault on your marriage! You shouldn't be concerned about being a Giver or a Taker right now - you, Sir, need to MAN UP and demand that this nasty affair ends!

To whom can you expose this? Their employer is target No. 1. Her parents should be next in line. What about church or synagogue - do you attend?

thanks again for the quick notes....Her Mom knows, not sure about her Dad since he cheated on her Mom in a similiar way I'm sure she is embarrassed to tell him. We are not religious but I know that some of her close friends already know and all my friends I have already told and they are friends with her too.

i have no problem telling everyone, it wasn't my lie and im not going to lie about it not happening.

I have not told her employer and since i have yet to return home and tell her I'm ready to talk I haven't demanded anything yet.

I think I will take tonight to get drunk and enjoy myself at the big soccer match in town tonight GO SOUNDERS and then go home tomorrow with no warning.

If she says she will not quit her job (which i think she will for me) then i will call her boss regardless of her reaction.

As far as I was told by her best friend who I talked to for sometime yesterday, my wife has ended the relationship with this person but yeah they still work together and there is no way that is going to fly with me.

I understand her not wanting to quit if my plan is divorce and she is going into survival mode but come monday morning im going to demand she quit and never go back to that office again.

OK, thanks for all the advice everyone, i will continue to read more and even buy a book!

________________________

BS 40
WS 37
dog
A w/ coworker
still in shock

Going out to get drunk is a horrible idea.

good advice on the exposing her, thank you....and CWMI, promise i won't get drunk (beers are too expensive at the game anyway) but i do plan on having fun enjoying the game with friends. thanks everyone for your advice....ill let you know how things go tomorrow.

cheers
dave
__________________

BS 40
WS 37
dog
A w/coworker
"GIVING MY FULL 90" tonight SOUNDERS FC!

You're the one who said you planned to get drunk tonight. How about you take care of your most important business instead? Or is that your most important business?

dbyl, your situation is very similar to how my own was a few years ago. Like you, my FWW had an A with a much younger OM who worked with her at the office. And like your case, the A was just about ending between my FWW and her OM when I learned about it.

I'm seeing you thinking about making the same mistakes that I made when D-Day happened. I didn't expose to her office, and I let get drive the decision to remain working with the OM (which she did, but she quit the job about six months later).

Those decisions significantly damaged the recovery of our M, and the OM ended up getting my FWW's job as a reward for his behaviour.

I suggest that you do NOT take that path, but do as the others are suggesting here: demand that she leave the job immediately, AND you expose to her office (whether or not she decides to leave, so at least they know why, and who else was involved).

Are you serious about ending this A?

Your posts don't sound like someone who is very upset about his M ending.

It is not an "Oh well, will leave that piece of advice alone, <<need not upset the WW,>> going to take an evening off my problems.. Cherio!"or

"I will expose to work if "a" or "b" happens." -- what the heck? No where on MB does it say to pick and chose your exposure. It is not a leverage or revenge option.

Exposure is a way to re-start and redefine your marriage based on principles of truth and honesty. It will help end the A. It is not a punishment.

MB is a plan, a good plan, that needs to be taken seriously. I know this situation is new to you, you never thought you would be in this mess.

You need to read everything you can on this site.


The choices you are making right now... today... will set the tone for your recovery or end of your M, chose wisely.

You have great vets posting to you, please listen to the advice.

I asked her to quit, she said she doesn't want to do it because she loves her new job and finally for the first time in a long time is happy. says she broke up the relationship but still has feelings for him but things between them are just professional. i told her why its important to remove this person from our lives but she was like..... i at least need some time to figure out what im going to do about a new job, do not want to just go in and quit, that would be bad for her career, what if next week we decide this marriage is not going to work and then she has no financial security, says she can separate him from our lives. i said this site told me i should expose her to her job and she freaked out and said that would ruin our chances to make things work cause that is a horrible thing to do to someone.

now before anyone starts yelling at me understand that i know how bad this is but what am i to do. if i want to make it work i feel like i have to meet her in the middle on this and trust her. i explained everything that everyone told me that she must quit. she is not opposed that but is scared. she has i have a biz and clients and money coming in and if i leave her she has nothing.

she broke out in tears and said she doesn't want to go back to the worthless person she felt like last year in a horrible job. i said i would not expose her and would not force her to quit but said that this decision is going to make the road to recovery very difficult.

she says she doesn't want to have a last horrah with him or anything like that (which i believe) but the fact remains that she still has feelings for him and like everyone here says it just asking for trouble. how am i supposed to fill her love bank when this guy is still in the picture...they sit 10 ft apart.

and to clarify i take this very seriously but i can't obsess about this every second of the day, it is going to drive me insane, my night out was very positive and my friend and i sat around and talked about my position and he had some great advice and it was good to have yet another persons opinion.

i tried to lay down yesterday and take a nap with my wife but i had a panic attack and started to shake and cry like a child, it was very embarrassing. I feel like a stranger in my own house right now. I slept on the couch because i just didn't want to freak out again.

im trying to make and effort but have moments of weakness where im wondering if im doing the right thing. are we in love still. she seems very open for this relationship to work in so many ways and has already started to read a book "After an Affair" which she wants me to read. she has been very open about what i had done to make her so unhappy which was a hard thing to hear but i was open and tried to reassure her that i was committed to making the changes necessary to make this marriage work.

i will continue to read all the information on this site and take one day at a time.

BS 40
WS 37
dog
A w/coworker
day 2 back at home

DBYL, Two questions:

Question: Why would you believe someone who has repeatedly lied to you, betrayed you, stolen from you and injured you repeatedly and shown nothing but selfish contempt for anyone but herself?

Question: Is her sense of self worth at work more important than knowing she is a good productive, successful wife? I am curious as to what is more important for her, being happy in a job, or being happy with her H.



CV

I know, I know, I feel the same way.....part of me understands what she is saying. she says she wants to at least have some time to find a new job. i'm so confused about what to do. right after i typed the above msg i took my still unpacked duffel bag and left the house cause i couldn't stand to see her leave out the door for work. i feel like i am running away but the pain im experiencing is something i just can't understand. i love her....she says she is willing to do lots of things but is scared about losing the one thing she has that makes her happy right now. she read me a page out of her journal that expressed the emptiness she had felt in her last couple jobs and i caved and said that i would not expose her no matter what. im a [censored] [censored].

BS 40
WS 37
dog
A w/coworker
starbucks thanks for the free wifi

Should i call or email her and tell her why i left this morning?

Might be nice to do that. Also remember that you can't make a promise you cannot reasonably keep. Ask her to be released from this promise you made her. Tell her why (because you cannot stay in a marriage where she is in contact with this guy).

Now.. go back home, unpack your duffle bag, and like God told Job... Gird yourself by your loins and prepare yourself....

The hurt is natural, but if you love her, fight darnit, don't run.

What's more important? A false feeling of security (her being there but being in constant contact with OM) or working towards real security (doing the hard thing, working through this and having a good marriage where boundaries are in place to protect you and her from ever falling again.)

You, Sir, are a BS in shock.

Everyone here probably has been through this and understands it. (from either the BS or the WS side of things) No one, that I know of, has done Exposure, Plan a or Plan b perfectly the first time they tried.
That is understandable.

But it does not excuse lack of action on your part - if you want to save your M.

Hoping is not a plan.
You will find out that here at MB, you will learn how to plan.

I believe you will never be in recovery until your WW is seperated from her A partner- but the vets know much more than I.

good luck to you.

Your WS has no right to elicit promises from you that cover her dishonesty and deciet.

You did nothing wrong. She lost her job when she diddled the boy 10 feet next to her.

There are consequences for such actions. This A was her chosing, yet she feels YOU should be covering for her? Really?

(That is like running someone over in your car, then getting out and asking the squashed person in the middle of the road to help fix the dent in the car that their body created on the hood.)

It is a morally bankrupt position for her to ask you to go along with and cover this assult to your M and life. (and for her to use guilt "Oh, poor me and my life last year!!") to elicit your promise.

Can you see the implications and manipulation here?