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Originally Posted By: SusieQ
Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted By: SusieQ
Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
There is quite literally no time aside from the end of the day. Baby gets up really early so unless we want to get up at 5am, it might be hard.


This is exactly why the Harleys were pushing the babysitting issue.

How many babysitters do you have that your W feels comfortable with?


Honestly? At this time I think zero. She has 2-3 that she is "somewhat" comfortable with. Something that is interesting however. When my wife was taking her long runs she had a girlfriend or two that she occasionally let watch the baby. I never heard her mention being uncomfortable about it. I sent her an email today that said I'd like negotiate with her about it. Part of my suggestions was using one of her girlfriends rather than her parents. Maybe that will sit better with her.


Hmmm....

Well, what exactly is the issue she has with not feeling comfortable? Is there some qualification she is looking for that these people don't have?


No, nothing like CPR or similar. I just think she feels uneasy. To be honest my instincts tell me to read into why she is ok with her friend watching the baby while she goes on a run, but less comfortable with it when we go out on a date. I'll suppress those instincts for now. :)I've felt a bit of a push back since last night from my wife before we dropped off the baby. My wife doesn't like to be pushed and I really don't know that I did. She gets irritated at times when I spend too much time on MB which I actually get. Its just the way I choose to deal with things internally. Enough with comments of any kind about finding a babysitter for the rest of today. She knows it needs to be done, so I'll let her work it out just a bit before coming back to it.


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Originally Posted By: MrNiceGuy
Hill .. you two are doing a FANTASTIC job. I can tell by the style of typing that your situation most likely doesnt feel as "desperate" as it used to ... and that your new habits of caring are starting to sink in. ONce the complete transition from your prior state of being to your new "caring states of being kicks in .. (if it hasn't already) life is going to feel ALOT different, and once your newest child is a bit older alot of your current babysitting issues will dissolve.

Hang in there Hill ... you guys are finally filling your love banks up and at the very least plugging some holes in it that were constantly draining your accounts. keep up the great work!

MNG


Thanks, it does feel different already.


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Originally Posted By: SusieQ
Originally Posted By: Vibrissa
So would your wife be willing to try the babysitting date-night at least once a week (or heck twice if she's willing to try that) for say a month or two and see if her reservations or worries diminish over time?


This is an awesome suggestion.

I worry, HT, that if you don't get some kind of tentative plan into place NOW you two will not establish a new pattern.


Well now see that is how I see things as well, particularly after speaking with the Harleys. Joyce said, "Don't wait on it." Being a practical, problem solving male, that meant to me do it now! Problem solved, move on! My wife I guess needs some more time to think it through so for now I'll need to respect that That doesn't mean I'm gonna put the ball in her court forever, it just means that I'll take a break from it for the rest of today, possibly for tomorrow, then revisit again later. I'm NOT ok with putting off finding child care arrangements indefinitely.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
That doesn't mean I'm gonna put the ball in her court forever, it just means that I'll take a break from it for the rest of today, possibly for tomorrow, then revisit again later. I'm NOT ok with putting off finding child care arrangements indefinitely.

I believe that Dr. Harley says when there's a conflict, to revisit the issue once a week until the problem is solved to both of your liking.

Once a week. No more, no less smile Spend the rest of the time enjoying each other and meeting EN.


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Good night tonight! My wife rocks!


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Ok a new day, I'm level headed and focused on doing what is right. The house stresses my wife out so I'm gonna make a "Honey Do" list from memory today at work and try to get most of it done throughout the weekend, WITHOUT being asked which is the key.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Ok a new day, I'm level headed and focused on doing what is right. The house stresses my wife out so I'm gonna make a "Honey Do" list from memory today at work and try to get most of it done throughout the weekend, WITHOUT being asked which is the key.


Good call! Domestic support tends to be a very important EN for mothers of small children. smile


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Turns out I'm a bad business partner as well. My general attitude in life has to be adjusted. I want to be a better man and I believe I've started that process. You can't go about life gaining at others expense. You have to give to receive. Wake up call man, big wake up call!


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Wife fell asleep on the couch again tonight. Not her fault, just miss her and wished we could have had some fun. Tomorrow is another day. Anyways she looks super cute on the couch right now.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Turns out I'm a bad business partner as well. My general attitude in life has to be adjusted. I want to be a better man and I believe I've started that process. You can't go about life gaining at others expense. You have to give to receive. Wake up call man, big wake up call!


You'll find building a good marriage will do a lot of good things for your character. smile


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Nothing to serious, just regrouping myself to make good decisions when I feel a desire for EN's to be met. My wife has responded well to receiving my affection better, hugging me back when I hug her, etc. I feel good when I hug/kiss her so I do it frequently. I still struggle with the lack of initiated affection, SF, etc on her part. I know I can't control her. I know I have a tendency to NOT ask for things from my wife for whatever reasons. We've had perfectly pleasant if not wonderful days, don't get me wrong. Played Scrabble till late last night and we had a great time(she won!). There is this lingering feeling however inside me that is related to her "not needing" or "desiring" affection or SF as much as I do. I would describe it as it not really occurring to her. The more I initiate affection, the more she doesn't have to if that makes sense. Is that good? Bad? Ideas on how to ask her for this EN?


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Reading HNHN, the Harley's sent it to us. I'm in chapter one and something that Dr Harley writes about hit me so hard I had to come here and share it. It is the relationship between affection and sex. Most women need affection to have sex, you can't have one without the other. Most men have a hard time being affectionate. My wife and I are a bit different I'd say. I rank affection and SF as my two most ENs. My wife has a few that are different. I grew up as I mentioned in a very "huggy" affectionate family, it comes easy to me. I give bear hugs to most of my buddies, my Dad, etc. Her family experience was very different. So here is my dilemma:

1. Is it possible my displays of affection to my wife, kisses, hugs, etc are perceived by her as a sign that I want SF? If that is the case are my attempts actually not causing her LB to fill, but rather removing deposits? I have to think the answer is no, but I still have to ask the question.

2. If one of my wife's ENs is not Affection, how then does the relationship between affection and SF change in our case? If you can't have SF without affection, but yet my wife is ok without me being affectionate towards her, then how does SF happen? What does she need to "feel" like being intimate with me?

Last night before bed we snuggled a bit. I asked her and she said sure. I'd admit, there was a small part of me that hoped it might turn into something more, but I was ok without it, I just wanted to be connected to my wife either way. SF is always better than snuggling, but I enjoy both of them very, very much.
The feeling of security has come back for the most part, however the feeling of not being needed has not. I feel I'm needed to:

1. Watch the kids to give her a break.
2. Take care of the family financially.
3. Make dinner and do dishes frequently.

I can keep going of course, but I'm just trying to make a point. Notice I'm not needed to be her romantic partner, her lover. It hurts a lot, whether or not I'm a big cause of it, that she doesn't need me for that. I'm doing the best I can to meet her needs and avoid LBs, but it so overwhelming at times its hard to know where to start. The Harley's said UA, so I'm doing everything I can to make that happen. I guess I'm struggling with being patient about it. Anyways, answers to the questions above would be greatly appreciated! Taking the kids to a bday party today, should be fun.


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I am running on very low sleep, so forgive me if I ramble tonight.

Have the two of you filled out your ENQs yet? What needs has she placed as the top 5 or 6?

Quote:
Nothing to serious, just regrouping myself to make good decisions when I feel a desire for EN's to be met. My wife has responded well to receiving my affection better, hugging me back when I hug her, etc. I feel good when I hug/kiss her so I do it frequently. I still struggle with the lack of initiated affection, SF, etc on her part.


This is good news, Hill. She is responding to you.
If it would mean a lot to you for her to initiate some of these things on occasion, then put it on your ENQ.
Examples:
"I like it when you come up behind me and hug me out of the blue."
"I love it when you grab my arm and kiss me as we pass each other in the hall."

Quote:
There is this lingering feeling however inside me that is related to her "not needing" or "desiring" affection or SF as much as I do. I would describe it as it not really occurring to her. The more I initiate affection, the more she doesn't have to if that makes sense.

Be very, very careful here. You are bordering on a DJ.
Remember, she is a different person, and it's perfectly okay if her need for affection or SF is different than yours.

Markos has a higher need for physical affection than I do. He wants to be touched and held, hugged and kissed. I prefer he show me affection by bringing me small gifts. We're different than the typical male/female examples. But it's not unheard of for a woman to not desire physical affection.

But it's very likely that the reason her desire for these things seems low is because she's in withdrawal.
Dr. Harley has said that when a person's top emotional needs are NOT the 4 intimate needs (conversation, affection, recreational companionship and SF), and instead they desire domestic support or family commitment as their top needs, it is a sign that this person is in withdrawal.

What needs has she placed at the top of her ENQ?

Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
1. Is it possible my displays of affection to my wife, kisses, hugs, etc are perceived by her as a sign that I want SF? If that is the case are my attempts actually not causing her LB to fill, but rather removing deposits? I have to think the answer is no, but I still have to ask the question.

Possible, but she doesn't seem to sound like she has a sexual aversion. It really sounds like she just needs time for her Love Bank to fill up.

Quote:
2. If one of my wife's ENs is not Affection, how then does the relationship between affection and SF change in our case? If you can't have SF without affection, but yet my wife is ok without me being affectionate towards her, then how does SF happen? What does she need to "feel" like being intimate with me?

She needs to feel in love. She will feel in love if you keep the UA up, and fill that time with the 4 intimate EN.

I suggest you read Chapter 5, on conversation.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 70
I studied this very question by investigating couples who were in love. How much time did they give each other? I studied couples who were dating, couples who had maintained romantic love while married, and couples having affairs. In all of these cases, I found that those who maintained their love for each other schedules time to be together almost every day. While their daily time together varried, the time they spent each week was almost always over fifteen hours. During that time they had each other's undivided attention, and they used most of it to engage in intimate conversation.

Based on these findings, and overwhelming evidence I've acquired since then, I tell couples that if they want to maintain their love for each other, they should learn to do what those in love are doing -- set aside at least fifteen hours a week for undivided attention, where one of the primary purposes is to engage in intimate conversation.


Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 71
First, conversation is an integral part of how all of the other important emotional needs are met.


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Originally Posted By: Prisca
I am running on very low sleep, so forgive me if I ramble tonight.

Have the two of you filled out your ENQs yet? What needs has she placed as the top 5 or 6?

Quote:
Nothing to serious, just regrouping myself to make good decisions when I feel a desire for EN's to be met. My wife has responded well to receiving my affection better, hugging me back when I hug her, etc. I feel good when I hug/kiss her so I do it frequently. I still struggle with the lack of initiated affection, SF, etc on her part.


This is good news, Hill. She is responding to you.
If it would mean a lot to you for her to initiate some of these things on occasion, then put it on your ENQ.
Examples:
"I like it when you come up behind me and hug me out of the blue."
"I love it when you grab my arm and kiss me as we pass each other in the hall."

Quote:
There is this lingering feeling however inside me that is related to her "not needing" or "desiring" affection or SF as much as I do. I would describe it as it not really occurring to her. The more I initiate affection, the more she doesn't have to if that makes sense.

Be very, very careful here. You are bordering on a DJ.
Remember, she is a different person, and it's perfectly okay if her need for affection or SF is different than yours.

Markos has a higher need for physical affection than I do. He wants to be touched and held, hugged and kissed. I prefer he show me affection by bringing me small gifts. We're different than the typical male/female examples. But it's not unheard of for a woman to not desire physical affection.

But it's very likely that the reason her desire for these things seems low is because she's in withdrawal.
Dr. Harley has said that when a person's top emotional needs are NOT the 4 intimate needs (conversation, affection, recreational companionship and SF), and instead they desire domestic support or family commitment as their top needs, it is a sign that this person is in withdrawal.

What needs has she placed at the top of her ENQ?

Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
1. Is it possible my displays of affection to my wife, kisses, hugs, etc are perceived by her as a sign that I want SF? If that is the case are my attempts actually not causing her LB to fill, but rather removing deposits? I have to think the answer is no, but I still have to ask the question.

Possible, but she doesn't seem to sound like she has a sexual aversion. It really sounds like she just needs time for her Love Bank to fill up.

Quote:
2. If one of my wife's ENs is not Affection, how then does the relationship between affection and SF change in our case? If you can't have SF without affection, but yet my wife is ok without me being affectionate towards her, then how does SF happen? What does she need to "feel" like being intimate with me?

She needs to feel in love. She will feel in love if you keep the UA up, and fill that time with the 4 intimate EN.

I suggest you read Chapter 5, on conversation.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 70
I studied this very question by investigating couples who were in love. How much time did they give each other? I studied couples who were dating, couples who had maintained romantic love while married, and couples having affairs. In all of these cases, I found that those who maintained their love for each other schedules time to be together almost every day. While their daily time together varried, the time they spent each week was almost always over fifteen hours. During that time they had each other's undivided attention, and they used most of it to engage in intimate conversation.

Based on these findings, and overwhelming evidence I've acquired since then, I tell couples that if they want to maintain their love for each other, they should learn to do what those in love are doing -- set aside at least fifteen hours a week for undivided attention, where one of the primary purposes is to engage in intimate conversation.


Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 71
First, conversation is an integral part of how all of the other important emotional needs are met.


Thanks Pricsa. Great advice to be followed, which brings me to an issue that is occurring I believe. Both Grace and I are not implementing the advice and program very well for one reason or another. I can't speak for her, but for me at least there are two things that are causing me to be discouraged in implementing this program:

1. I get discouraged. I get shot down once, try it again, shot down twice, then tend to lose confidence in asking again. Intimate conversation is extremely important. I began the process of asking my wife questions about a week ago. "How do you feel about the winner of Survivor?" "How do you feel about trying to get you back to the gym on a regular basis?" "How was it when you were young going to school with your friends?" The answers are usually one word or one sentence. I'm not having success and getting any kind of a conversation going with my wife and it is discouraging.

2. Push back/postponement: My wife is pushing off implementing some of the MB principles, particularly child care. I asked her this morning is we could go on a date night this week. She said, "we'll see". I asked her also if we could write down things that make us happy so the other person can just automatically do them. The example I used was coffee. I asked her if she enjoyed me making coffee for her each morning. She said, "well I guess so, but it really just depends, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't." If I knew she like coffee, I'd do it every morning, but since she hasn't told me, and I can't tell by her reactions I just don't know.

Spending UA time with each other is critical, but so is communication. She asked for me to always ask her if I need clarification about something. I kid you not, I need clarification about 50% of everything she says or asks of me. This tells me there has to be something else involved here. "Would you like to go on a date with me this week?" It would make it easier if she said something like, "That would be great! Let me call my Dad and I'll see if he can watch the kids Wednesday!" When I get the answer similar to, "we'll see" it not only is confusing but discouraging. I don't really feel like she wants to go on a date with me when I feel the push back/postpone type of answers.

What I'd really like is ideas on how to begin faithfully implementing this program on both our sides. BTW, read first six chapters of HNHN yesterday as fast as I could. Lot of great info in there, very different than LB or RL. I learned that affairs happen frequently when ENs are not being met by their spouse. I also learned that men need sex(A lot), so I don't feel so bad about myself getting discouraged about feeling that way. I'm still afraid to ask for SF, and I'm not getting any better at it. I learned that most women need affection to have sex. I also believe the affection I've been giving my wife is the wrong kind a lot of the time. No sexual undertones from here on out. I'm gonna focus on being thoughtful, loving, caring, etc.


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HT, regarding the UA time, since it sounds like your W is worried about leaving the baby, I have a suggestion that my sister and her H have used to help them leave behind their toddler (the one with health issues).

They both have the iPhone4 which has the dual cameras. They leave one with the sitter and take the other. They are able to call using FaceTime and check in and "see" what is going on in the house while they are out. If you don't have an iPhone4, it may be worth looking into the $$ to upgrade (there are other models that use FaceTime, btw, not just the iPhone) if this will help your W relax enough to enjoy the date.

I think someone else suggested this but maybe you could just go out for a drink and appetizer at a bar and make it a shorter date for the first few times until she feels a little more confident about leaving the baby.

Is your W still checking in here?


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Originally Posted By: SusieQ
HT, regarding the UA time, since it sounds like your W is worried about leaving the baby, I have a suggestion that my sister and her H have used to help them leave behind their toddler (the one with health issues).

They both have the iPhone4 which has the dual cameras. They leave one with the sitter and take the other. They are able to call using FaceTime and check in and "see" what is going on in the house while they are out. If you don't have an iPhone4, it may be worth looking into the $$ to upgrade (there are other models that use FaceTime, btw, not just the iPhone) if this will help your W relax enough to enjoy the date.

I think someone else suggested this but maybe you could just go out for a drink and appetizer at a bar and make it a shorter date for the first few times until she feels a little more confident about leaving the baby.

Is your W still checking in here?


She has an Iphone4, yes! Well worth looking into. I don't think she has stopped checking in, but definitely hasn't for awhile. I'd like her to be here, it is important to be here. I honestly don't trust myself without being here each and every single day, but that is me.


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Asked wife to hang out tonight for a romantic evening tonight after kids go down. She said she is open for a fun night. Baby is stressing her out, hope it works out, it us soooo stressful for tgrace, I hope it works out. We really need a fun night without baby being difficult, this weekend was tough.


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Originally Posted By: Hilltopper1972
Asked wife to hang out tonight for a romantic evening tonight after kids go down. She said she is open for a fun night. Baby is stressing her out, hope it works out, it us soooo stressful for tgrace, I hope it works out. We really need a fun night without baby being difficult, this weekend was tough.


We sat on the couch mostly in silence last night. It got easier at the end but for the most part we didn't have much to talk about. I'm deeply depressed, she knows it, and I'm not sure how to pick myself up off the ground about it. At the very end of the night she asked if I wanted a SF date tomorrow night. I said sure. I definitely get discouraged when there isn't enough SF and its been a week. Its just not up to me, I can't ask because I'm terrified to do so, and she doesn't typically offer unless she can tell i'm discouraged. I still feel like most everything isn't up to me, she's in charge.


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Three questions:
1. Have the two of you filled out your ENQs?
2. How many UA hours are you getting a week?
3. Are you scheduling UA activities ahead of time?


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Originally Posted By: Prisca
Three questions:
1. Have the two of you filled out your ENQs? Yes but need to be revised.
2. How many UA hours are you getting a week? 10-15, but not much outside of the couch and TV. We did scrabble the other night which was nice.
3. Are you scheduling UA activities ahead of time?
No, this is some of the "push back" I believe I'm receiving from my wife. Everything is just "up in the air" you know?


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