When you do talk to the ow (posow that one), refer to her as 'John's fiance' or whatever the xfiance's name was. Don't make her human.

Have you exposed to the workplace?

River, why do I get the feeling you are going to lay down and let your husband walk out?
Why are you so calm about him going to the hotel with her tonight? I just noticed your age and lenght of time with him. You have been with him since you were 16?

Do you really want this to work out or just afraid to be alone? I married my first husband at 16 and looking back now it was just a way to get away from my grandmother. I know now I would have NEVER been able to stay with him long.

You can Plan A him for 2-3 days while you prep for Plan B but I don't recommend much more than that, otherwise you are in Plan Doormat and I have not seen even one M saved while in Plan Doormat.

Not to the boss, but to co-workers. So far I've been universally ignored or told I was causing drama and to stop. (his sister did call him, but never messaged me back.)

I am terrified of being alone. I'm terrified of living alone. I have never done either of those things. That's not why I want to save my marriage, but that is a fact. When we moved across the state for his job, I left all my family besides him behind. My best friend recently moved to England. We've shared a car for years, so I feel fairly isolated and trapped and, at times, utterly alone. I have no life here outside of him. He was my life.

Any insights?

It is the fear that paralyzes you, sends blood rushing through your veins, sours your stomach, and interupts your sleep. It is the fear that gives away your power, your hope, and your forgiveness. It is fear that robs you of the active self and traps you in the role of patronizing enabler who will take them back at ANY cost...even if the price is too high. It is fear that keeps you from confronting and exposing. And fear that prevents you from enforcing your boundaries and having compassion for yourself.

Fear of abandonment.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of reaction....yours, theirs.
Fear of future...the unknown.
Fear of destitution and want.
Fear of failure.
Fear of losing.
Fear of loss.
Fear of solitude.
Fear of settling.
Fear of change.
Fear of lack of change.
Fear
Fear

Infidelity creates FEAR....and fear is crippling. Research shows us what we already know in our hearts....when we are fearful....we are unable to fire up the parts of our brains that "process" information on a logical, rational, spirtual level and create solutions that increase the odds for success in crises. When we are fearful....we don't use our neocortex....but instead, it is our limpic system which lights up our MRIs....our animal brains wired for "fight or flight".

There is no HOPE in our animal brains....because our indentity, our souls, our compassion....don't reside there. You are only capable of conflict or escape when you are there....so you must find a quiet place to deal with your fears so that you can confront, expose, do all the things that overcoming infidelity entails....all the things that happiness entails. You must value yourself as well as protect yourself, without fear of losing your WS or enforcing boundaries.....because if you don't....all your fears will be realized anyway.

MB is not designed to trap you in a marriage where your feelings are crushed and disrespected or the vows of marriage are meaningless. It's designed to help you overcome fear and give you hope that marriages CAN recover from infidelity....but you must be brave and be willing to risk losing your WS in order to regain trust, fidelity, security.

You must be willing to see beyond your pain and take logical and systematic steps to undermine the affair and increase the stability and security of your marriage. That takes courage above pain. It takes the peacefulness of knowing you are strong enough to lose a self indulgent and unrepentant spouse or recover with a flawed, but motivated one.

Don't let your fear take back a spouse who isn't ready to do the hard work recovery after infidelity entails. It is an invitation for misery.

If you don't believe you CAN survive without your WS....you cannot do what you must do to ensure success.

Stop being fearful of their threats...they are just excuses to leave or be selfish.

Stop being fearful of their reactions....their reactions arise from their guilt...not your boundaries.

Stop being fearful of taking a stand....it's the only way to gain respect or trust.

Stop being fearful of being alone.....until you can stand on your own and risk losing them, you will NEVER know if they remain with you by choice. And you will never know if you want them or you NEED them.

And if you need them....even if they return....you are in trouble chere.

Looking back ... I can see I worked myself through a very awkward "plan A" ....
although I never heard of plan A until years into recovery and I started poking around this site.

Looking back ... I can see my efforts to become differentiated ... although I did not read Schnarch's Passionate Marriage until years into recovery.

Plan A is very much complementary to Schnarch's ideas of differentiation.

Developing a positive identity within the context of a marriage struggling to overcome infidelity.

Developing a strong sense of self-worth that is valid both within and outside the boundaries of the marriage.

I can NOW see plan A as a path to greater self worth and NOT necessarily as a plan to "win back" the heart and mind of the infidel ... although that might happen.

It is a plan to differentiate myself and identify myself as a worthy person apart from the circumstances of the marriage relationship.

Plan A'ers are not like doormats to wipe your feet upon and to mis-use .... more like a *welcome home* sign... if both persons choose to re-inter the marriage!

Plan A says : "I can hold onto my better self under the worst of circumstances".

Schnarch says: "We develop a contingent identity based on a 'self-in-relationship'. Because our identity depends on the relationship, we may demand that our partner doesn't change so that our identity won't either."

Then ... comes the grenade of infidelity tossed into the marriage and the entire fusion of identities is blown apart!

The aftermath of the grenade then boils down to this question ....

WHO THE HECK AM I ... AND ... WHO THE HECK ARE YOU?

And, asking this question to the *fogged-in* infidel is pointless. They got INTO the affair because they were lost to themselves, and went searching for a new self .... and, INSTEAD of differentiating themselves ... they fused identity to yet another relationship ... actually moving away from a healthy differentiated view of their self-worth ----> I am wonderful because my affair partner thinks so.

Plan A says and demonstrates to OURSELVES: I am not some weak pathetic person deserving to be abandoned or cheated. I am demonstrating decent and loving behaviour. I am worthy of love and devotion. ... If the infidel notices .... double bonus points. If not, I become better differentiated along the way ... and I can see my strengths despite terrible and hurtful circumstances.

Once I become more fully differentiated and have stable and accurate self-worth (after the grenade) ... I am then in the position to identify
healthy choices.

I can honestly say that I will be a sensational woman within this marriage... or after this marriage terminates.

I think I finally understand what I went through. I understand that I am the better woman for it. I understand my spouse is the better man for it.

That is a powerful message to myself.

The anxiety that floods the betrayed spouse is the perceived loss of identity .

Self worth and a differentiated identity is the harvest of plan A .

I think I get it now.

Best to all of you travelers on this journey!

Killing him in his sleep.

Be your very BEST in the final days of Plan A.

That way, Plan B comes as a *shock and awe* moment.
And that way, Plan B is a much more effective tool.

Please READ MF's link to Plan B.

Hang in there.
You're about to discover inner strength you never knew you had.

Did you contact OW's parents? This is a piece of exposure that cannot be overlooked.

Have you asked his parents/friends to put pressure on him to end the A?

While this may sound terribly romantic, it can also feel like a huge life long burden to the person who must hold up your identity for you.
This sends a message to your spouse that you desperately NEED him to construct who you are.
He may not want that impossible responsibility any more. It's a task that is not really his to fill.
Am I right?

Your H wants to be desired.
You are desperate in your need for him.
Can you see how this is not working in your favor?

I am saying this to you so that you have the opportunity to change during the closing time of your Plan A.

Do you understand what I am saying?

I remember it was when I realized that I could get through this and would be ok alone is when my FWH woke up little. He realized I was done with asking him to stay. I told him I loved him bit would NOT tolerate the affair.

And now stress has my autoimmune disorder hitting me hard

Logistically, we only have one car. Do I insist on keeping it?

And now stress has my autoimmune disorder hitting me hard

He was really really blown away by my talking to the fiance'. He just did not expect that at all, and said he was amazed by what I did.

I'm so sorry.
And, I DO understand.
I have an auto immune disease as well.

You need to start looking for a job just in case and make sure he knows you are. It will be good for you and he will get the picture you are preparing to move on if he does not end the A.

Plan B will be much easire since you dont have kids. I know you wanted them but you would never want them to go through this with you.

[quote=Pepperband]

If we are in Plan B and I have the car, that will make things easier. Not sure how he's going to get to work, but I'm trying to make that not-my-problem.

Find wolfpackgirls posts. She can help you alittle about what is going on in his head. She is a FWW.