Good deal. We have hired and fired 4 Or should I say "I" have. A qualified MC to deal with this is almost impossible to find here. And Im in a capitol city.

Well, I got home from biz trip this morning and she was in a very good mood. Came out to greet me. Actually came outside to meet me in the driveway. Hugs and kisses.

I noticed in the fridge there is a big bottle of my favorite new protein drink. She noticed I bought one last week for helping with my exercise workouts.

The reason you tell more people is because the more people the better. The more people who know the more people to hold her accountable. That is a good thing, not a bad thing. If she is embarrassed she only has herself to blame.


Yes.


Yes. People should feel ashamed for behaving badly. Otherwise they are sociopaths. But if she feels shame it is because of her affair. That is her fault, not yours.

Secondly, she won't be angry about exposure after the fog rolls off. So don't let it bother you for now. Just tell her that you are sorry she feels ashamed of her actions. You would be ashamed too. But be clear with her that shame is a consequence of her behavior, not yours.


That sounds real smart to me. There is no reason to keep her affair a secret, stretch. Just because she is embarrassed does not mean exposure is a bad thing. She should feel embarrassed about being bad. Acting stupid is embarrassing! Her embarrassment is a sting that will help her avoid being stupid in the future. That can't be a bad thing.

And lastly, what is your plan for recovery? She sounds awful entitled and spoiled to me. If you continue to cater to a little witch, you will only enable her bad behavior. Don't do that. Now is the time to stand up for your marriage and set down conditions for her.

I would set her down and explain to her what it will take to keep you in this marriage. Let her know that you will give her an opportunity to EARN your forgiveness but that you are not interested in staying in a loveless marriage. See, right now she thinks she will accept her on any terms and that is simply lowering the bar. Lower the bar and you don't have a marriage, Stretch. If you want to recover from this, you need to RAISE the bar by raising your standards. She can meet your standards or you don't have a marriage anyway.

If she doesn't make some radical changes and get her act together you will end up with a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage and she will be more likely to have another affair.

Tell her this is what it will take to keep you interested and list all your conditions. Those conditions should include a complete change of lifestyle that alters the environment that led to the affair. No more opp sex friendships, complete transparency, participation in a marriage program that restores the romantic love in your marriage. She will have to meet your needs in a way that she has failed to do in the past. Bottom line: you won't stay in a loveless marriage.

Whether your marriage ends up a success or failure will depend almost entirely on your wife's willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become completely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. You should question the wisdom of staying in your marriage until she makes an 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife.

Now is the time to focus on recovery, Stretch!

Mel,

What am I supposed to do? Make all those demands? I don't disagree with any of what you say. But I am working on Plan A. She doesn't want to recommit right now. I believe if I flat out gave her all the demands you suggest... she would just bolt.

I get so muddled between all the plans required for Recovery and all the care one must take during Plan A with a foggy wayward.

In Plan A, I put my EN's aside for the months that it takes.

My $LB feels low right now, indeed. They say that is normal for the BS working on a foggy WS and Plan A.

While in Plan A, how do I make demands like that? Try to Reason with logic? Suggest "working on the relationship?" Those are all on the "DON'T DO" list for Plan A'ers. Right now, one or two minutes of serious talk about the A and Recovry sees her falling into a pit of desperassion, hopelessness and crying. I am emotionally stable now, I recognize it and I can handle it better than the early days.

But the time has passed for Plan A. Plan A is only a short term plan until the affair is killed. You should be in Plan Recovery. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life for conflict avoiders to enable tyrants. You are just teaching your wife to be a tyrant. If she bolts because you won't settle for a death of a thousand cuts, what have you lost? This is not about marriage at all costs, Stretch. What happens at this phase is recovery. You don't have a marriage otherwise.

Nor do I think she will bolt. I think she would have done that a long time ago if she didn't want the marriage. If she won't commit to recovery, you are BETTER OFF without her. She will respect you for having standards, stretch.

Move forward and lead your marriage out of the ditch, Stretch. The time for Plan A is long over.


Not working on the marriage is NOT normal and is not advised. Foggy is normal, but that does not mean you abandon recovery and settle for this. You don't settle for a death of a thousand cuts, you raise your standards and recover your marriage. If she doesn't get on board, then Plan B is in order.

Mel, first of all, I emailed you and haven't heard back yet!! And secondly, I am going to cut and paste this for jackinthebox, a similar issue was raised on his thread....

You have mail!

Totally agree stretch, time to up the bar. But be prepared for a couple of things that might happen:

She might throw a fit. Will through a fit. Stick to your guns. Full marriage or full divorce. No crappy middle ground (still fighting that battle too)

And when she does get some real remorse, guilt, would take it back if she could? It will really fry your noodle when YOU aren't entirely sure you want her back!

Maybe I should call Steve back again lol.

Thanks Reynolds. Appreciate it.

Yup. I will be prepared for those two things... and for whatever unexpected other things happen.

I guess we'll know if you hit number two when your signature changes...lol

Keep fighting the good fight stretch

Stretch, what usually happens when a BS sets the standards and gives the WS an opportunity to EARN his forgiveness is she will rant and rave and make threats. See, she is used to having you under her control and will not like you taking back control of your own life. Because all you are doing here is telling her what YOU will or won't accept. You are stating your own boundaries and giving her an opportunity to respect them.......or not. But you do have control over whether or not you choose to stay in an abusive, neglectful marriage. When you state your boundaries she will begin to RESPECT you.

Women do not respect men they can run over. It is disgusting. If you want your marriage to survive, YOU are going to have to stand up and LEAD your marriage out of the ditch. Your wife is currently in charge and she is a drunk driver. You need to take the wheel back, Sir.

You might hear, "well, I don't know if I want to work on it." She is testing you to see if you really mean it and to see if you really have standards. [she doesn't believe it and still believes you want her so bad she can manipulate you] If you are willing to make yourself available to be a doormat, I would tell thats ok, that you are volunteering to be her doormat.

If you choose, rather, to stand up for your marriage and not accept a crippled, loveless marriage, I would tell her that if she chooses to reject your offer and leave the marriage, you will sure be sad, but think it is for the best. Now, when will she be leaving because her refusal will lead to divorce. Can she move out today?

You have to be willing to back up your boundaries, Stretch. And keep in mind, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by setting standards for your marriage. I predict she will be shocked at first but will come to you later and agree to your terms. That is what usually happens. And if she won't commit, you have lost nothing except a death of a thousand cuts.

^

The greatest breakthrough in our early recovery is when I discovered, and stated, that not only could I walk away from this M, but I could THRIVE if I did.

This woman is an emotional terrorist, stretch. She wields her anger and/or depression against you to oppress and control you.

Get yer dang chin up, brother!

Amen and Amen Mel and Mb

I've started to discover the same thing. I said to my W "Feels like we turned a corner." Well, no, she hated that. ANd I don't know if that was the right phrase. Because she said she feels madder and angrier than ever. Fine, "turned a corner" isn't the right phrase.

But, what is better said is, "Something definitely feels different this past month." Something feels different to me. Doesn't mean we turned a corner. But I turned a corner.

What feels different to me? I thought perhaps because she was trying a little harder, being a little bit nicer, started to do some real work on her depression and her own issues (not mine) with a new therapist, and because she was wearing the ring. That's not what felt really different.

But really, you know what has changed don't you HHH? It's me. I started to believe just like you said, "I could walk away from this M too and I could thrive if I did." Look back on the thread. Do you gents remember when I changed my signature line?

I want her to choose recovery so we can thrive together. I know that we can. But no longer can I fell as though I am doing it alone.

In the first couple months, I recall how we couldn't even talk about baking cookies without my breakdown in tears. Right now, we can't talk about Recovery for one minute without her breakdown in tears. That's needs to end.

Have you chosen recovery for your marriage? Because I don't really sense that here. If you are serious about recovery, I would demonstrate that by backing your words with action and explaining to her that you won't settle for less.

What are your next steps, stretch?

It's possible that she's figuring out that you have every reason to hit the bricks if she don't shore up her $#!+. That's a healthy realization, IMO. It's a switch between the expectation of this fantasy-land "unconditional love," and beginning to realize it takes works.

It's gonna take some real knock-around work on her part. That includes ending her emotional blackmail.



I tear my heart open, I sew myself shut
My weakness is that I care too much
And my scars remind me that the past is real
I tear my heart open just to feel

Drunk and I'm feeling down
And I just wanna be alone
I'm pissed cause you came around
Why don't you just go home
Cause you channel all your pain
And I can't help you fix yourself
You're making me insane
All I can say is

[Chorus:]
I tear my heart open, I sew myself shut
My weakness is that I care too much
And our scars remind us that the past is real
I tear my heart open just to feel

I tried to help you once
Against my own advice
I saw you going down
But you never realized
That you're drowning in the water
So I offered you my hand
Compassions in my nature
Tonight is our last stand

I tear my heart open, I sew myself shut
My weakness is that I care too much
And our scars remind us that the past is real
I tear my heart open just to feel

I'm drunk and I'm feeling down
And I just wanna be alone
You shouldn't ever come around
Why don't you just go home?
Cause you're drowning in the water
And I tried to grab your hand
And I left my heart open
But you didn't understand
But you didn't understand
GO FIX YOURSELF!

I can't help you fix yourself
But at least I can say I tried
I'm sorry but I gotta move on with my own life
I can't help you fix yourself
But at least I can say I tried
I'm sorry but I gotta move on with my own life

I tear my heart open, I sew myself shut
My weakness is that I care too much
And our scars remind us that the past is real
I tear my heart open just to feel

I tear my heart open, I sew myself shut
My weakness is that I care too much
And our scars remind us that the past is real
I tear my heart open just to feel

I'm gonna go play with the sprinklers with the kids and the dogs for awhile.

Interesting video choice HHH. Did you remember anything I said in the past on my thread about my wife and alcohol?

Not off the top of my head, but considering the meat-and-potatoes of her A, I suppose there is that extra relevance in song choice.

HHH sigline..

I'm a dumb dude... so I memorize things smart people have already figured out!

Isn't that funny though, that thats the opposite of dumb?
Go figure,,

Good MC today. Not that we both feel better. The opposite.. She feels worse than ever. Really, really low. But i realized that we havent "turhed a corner" meaning its all getting better. We have finally hit the starting block.

I think,
fog lifted
real work starts
She feels worse than ever

You guys told me this would happen. I gotta be the strong one.