Give that a shot, indie. But my gut is telling me that something is very wrong, here. And I don't think it's all about your occasional outbursts. I'll keep reading your thread and hoping I'm wrong.

So I told him I had dropped by because I missed him and what would his reaction have been had I stayed. I know he's pretty truthful and that he wouldnt just say 'oh it would have been ok' to get out of it. I knew that staying WASNT OK and I knew he would tell me exactly why.

He said 'here we go again, what have i done now' I said 'You havent done anything, just wondering whether I would have been welcome to stay last night' He said: 'Truthfully, no, but what difference does it make?' I said 'It matters to me, because knowing why stops me guessing. When you act like you don't want me around, I have to guess why.' He said, 'Like what? what are your guesses?' I said: 'Well I might assume you don't like my company.' H: 'Sometimes I don't'. Me: 'Ok, I might also guess I had done something wrong and you were made at me' H: 'You havent done anything wrong'. M: 'So can you give me a reason, that stops me guessing?' H: 'If im by myself I cant upset you and I cant get into trouble. im not arguing with you in a house full of kids. Except here we are, I didnt even see you last night and i am in trouble anyway'. Me: 'No, you're not in trouble, I understand the reason now, and I can stop guessing, you answered what I asked.' Then I added: 'For the record, nothing you do now, will get you into trouble. If you want to spend time by yourself, just say so, though I will probably also ask you to make time for me the night after or something. Im not going to flip out on you though, no matter what. If we disagree on something, im just going to say so, but im never going to force you into doing anything.' H; We'll see how long that lasts'. Me: 'It has to last, nothing else is going to work'.

After ranting a bit,he gave me a hug and we are going out tomorrow night.

I am totally totally drained.

You're actually in pretty good shape, then, indie. You know what is wrong--he feels like he gets in trouble every time he spends time with you. So now you know what to do--make spending time with you fun, so he'll want to do it more.

Your UA time should actually come before time 'to himself', but you're going to have to work up to that, I see, since you've made it so unpleasant to spend time with you.

Tomorrow night, no indication that he is in trouble for anything, okay? Look nice and smell good and flirt.

Lol, that is what I was born to do. Isn't it funny how you forget to do the simplest things?

It's weird because as he was saying 'im avoiding you because I dont want to be in trouble in with you' I realised he had never spelled it out like that for himself before and he could see the absurdity of it.

For me, a huge lightbulb went on. Because hes not around much,I grab him as soon as I see him for a 'relationship chat' aka as complaining, which is just making him run away.

Saw on another thread that apparently Dr H recommends speaking about the relationship only one day a week, at an agreed time.. I am considering this one but very unsure. surely sometimes things just come up? On the other hand it would stop him ducking for cover and avoiding me the rest of the time. Anyone tried it?

I had already stopped doing it on dates, but he acts like I am about to complain at him at any minute, even when we're somewhere fun. Think I have to spell it out to him that Im not going to do that..

Don't spell out anything. Show him. Just stop doing it.

As for relationship talk just once a week and your assertion that things just come up...right now there's probably LOTS that come up, but do you really think you can get him out of withdrawal by nagging him with everything he's doing wrong?

So I was pretty excited about tonight, which I believe I mentioned to H last night. He called me this morning though telling me tonight was off, could we do Wednesday or Thursday instead. Im working late Thursday (which I had mentioned before) so that wasnt an option. He had forgotten he was helping his brother with his CV tonight, plus with his shifts, Tuesday is a school night for him, whereas Wednesday is not this week. He usually plays pool on Wednesdays but they aren't playing a team this week, so he and two lads from the team had arranged to go to a pub quiz instead this Wednesday. I have now been invited along to this.
At the time he called me I was being bright, breezy and upbeat with him - and desperate to just get some fun time with him - so I said ok to Weds. Since then though my morale has hit the deck. I feel I am constantly being shoved behind other priorities. On the upside, we both do like quizzes and have fun at them (we have few common interests). I was really upset this morning though and am not even sure why. He's cancelled on me before, usually its a complete cancellation too, this is just moving the day.
Just very sad to me thats hes not as keen as me about seizing the opportunity tonight. I know the CV thing wont take him more than an hour and we could have done something after that. Ive asked him to come home to dinner at least when he's done, but he was being vague with me and I know what that means.
But then, doh, he wont be as keen as me if hes in withdrawal and im not.

Did I do the right thing in agreeing?

Please someone tell me this distant moutaintop called intimacy is achievable!

Hmmm...I know I've fallen real low when plans get changed or dropped, and recently, too. I refused to go along with my H changing the date, and instead we planned something entirely new. Which was fun, but didn't alleviate how I felt when the originally planned weekend came along...

I say if you're not enthusiastic about tagging along with his bar buddies, don't go. But it could be a chance to be a shiny little gift and have the guys wondering why your H doesn't want to hang out with you when you're so much danged fun. Do you already know these guys? Could they become allies? Would either of them be the type to say, "Dam, if I had that at home, you guys could go pound sand!" kwim?

They both do admire the way I look and have said so to my h in front of me. There not really allies, theyre very much his friends. I can have fun around them though and I intend to.

When Im done sulking! I have to put my smile on soon tho, H says he is coming home for dinner.

Helps masively just to hear 'ive fallen low too'

Make a nice dinner! Let him know you like having him around. Is he coming home for dinner and staying, or is he grabbing a bite and leaving?

If he stays: just enjoy it. Drop a few words sometime during the evening, maybe something like, "Home feels so wonderfully full when you're here." Then DROP IT, no more 'relationship talk', just offer him some dessert or ask if he wants a pillow.

If he's noshing and splitting, get yourself cozy with a book or something, whatever your usual distraction is, kiss him good-bye and ASK him if he will give you a call if he will be later than [whatever time]. Or, make other plans out for yourself, and leave first, letting him know you'll be back at such-and-such, will call if you're going to be later.

NO ANGRY STUFF.

So last night went q well. I didnt know if he was staying but I made a nice dinner and we settled down in front of TV. So, there was some touching, (I was holding his foot) even a kiss(!) before I went to bed. (The coaching came in real handy, i had to button my lip loas of times, but doing so helped)Got lonely though, so ended up coming back downstairs few ours later and saying I was stuggling to sleep, could Iwatch some more TV with him (in the past I would have asked him to come up) by the time the programme had finished he was asleep so I covered him up and kissed his head, only he wasnt asleep, an said thanks. I asked was he comfy, he said not really and I told him to come up in a bit if he wasnt..

So he did come up for like the first time in a week, even hough we werent snuggly or anything. So hard getting up this morning because Ive missed him so much..

Bit apprehensive about going out with his friends later.He was a bit abrupt on the phone earlier. In recent weeks too, he has used the opportunity of being in company to take pot shot djs at me, where I cant respond. It can be quite embarrasing. Ive decided to treat it as a move into conflict, a good sign? Ill just carry on being pleasant if he does it tonight. Plus any complaints go onto a to do list for the ENs I need to meet.
Sound good?

Right now I would back of any relationship talk and your goal should be that "Time with you is pleasant". I am not saying to be a doormat, but make sure he doesn't dread time with you.
It's almost like you have to retrain him. Of course all this is assuming he is not having an affair or wants to have one with the widow or anything like that.

So if you generally enjoy going to pub quizzes and he invited you, then go. Don't second guess him and say "Are you sure you want me to come?" Don't analyze with him later and ask if he had a good time. Say something like "I had a great time with you tonight! It was nice seeing the guys. I hope we can do it again soon."
If he starts taking pot shots at you, have some phrases ready, such as "Ouch!" or "Do you know you said that out loud?"

But try to avoid that by praising him if he gets answers right and stuff like that.

Yes, im backing off realtionship talk, and before gaining this advice off you all, I hadnt even considered that as a serious problem. Now I see it as a failure to meet one of his most important needs - admiration. Its really helped. We had a good night all in all. Our table was lucky! We won the quiz and then I won a comp then my H won a comp which added to the atmosphere. It was kind of sad when halfway throuhg the night , we were left alone for a bit, and he nodded to my bottle of beer and said 'dont have so many of them that you start shouting at me'.
I cant believe how much I have hurt him in one night.
I'm not ruling out an affair. I think the state of our relationship means he would have been in great danger of an affair if he found her attractive or if she was in any shape to even think about men. But the more I look into it, it just seems unlikely by the day. If you all think I should do more snooping though, im not averse to it. My feeling is that he isnt dishonest when it comes to direct questions, but I do think he avoids telling me stuff.

He's pretty open about the fact that he thinks of leaving me. He tells me he would go abroad, (more job opportunities for him there) but that hes not ready to go until hes sure theres no chance.

Dont know whether this is paranoia or what, but getting steadily worried that at least an EA is going on. Need some snooping tips please. Apologies for the long post, but..

I drop by by widow friends house unexpectedly and my H is there. Says hes helping her son sort out his computer. He had led me to believe he was headed out elsewhere, but had been vague

My H then tells me hes off to play football and is then playing video games at a male friends house afterwards and 'would be home late so dont worry'. Drove past male friends house, his car not there. Went to my widow-friends house and his car is there. Called him and asked him how hes enjoying game night. He does tell me the truth - that he is in fact at hers. I tell him im heading over in a light hearted way.

He seems super pissed off with me when I turn up, says its late and he was just about to leave. She is friendly and chatty

While he's out the room I have a conversation with her in which i tell her things are going better. I tell her hes a bit stressed from work today, but that yesterday we had a great time at the quiz an 'snogged like teenagers' when we got home (which is all true). Her reaction was very strange.

I left first an dhe said he wouldnt be long but he took half an hour later than I did to arrive home, said he struggled to get petrol.

I was on the computer checking out MB stuff when he walked in and he was crazy interested in the screen, saying what's that? (I just had google up, having deleted history before he wlked in) He wanted to use the computer 'right now' without giving me a chance to log off (he doesnt have my password)

Because I hesitated and asked why, he is really annoyed with me.

However I did check his texts and there were messages between them mentioning the sons computer, and also that football and video games at the other friends house got cancelled

This is what I was trying to tell you, indie. You need to snoop like a bloodhound.

Here's the thing: your H lost his dear friend. He is in mourning. Dear friend's wife lost her husband. SHE is in mourning over the same person. They have this hugely emotional mutual loss that needs to be comforted. This is a dangerous (for your marriage) thing for them to have in common. They may naturally comfort each other. NOT GOOD.

Yes, it may be (and probably IS) an EA. You need to stop this now before it becomes a PA, and it most assuredly will.

I'm sorry, indie. I never like to be right about this. But I think I am, and I think you need to get to work quickly.

How though specifically? I had a look on the Operation Investigate forum and couldnt see anyting that a) I could afford (very limited budget, he would also see any big spends) b) that would work for us.
Hes very open (and insistent) about going to see and 'support' her. Proving thats where hes going when away from me would achieve what? Im also pretty sure that any cozy chats would take place at her house. Last night I did notice for the first time that he seems to be keeping his htc a lot closer to him. Think he suspects me of snooping. I wouldnt know where to start about checking out his phone and our laptop, hes much more tech savvy then me. Voice Activated Recorder would prob work, he would prob call her from his car, but I cant seem to find much on one I cn buy in the UK.

Found hotel recipt today from last month. No room charge but its a residents bill and has a room number on it also has departure date and bar charges for an evening meal and a morning charge wich looks like coffee. He did say something last month about going to a business function with a group of guys to see about new job leads. He said he would be staying over with a work friend nearby to my (vague) recollection. The bill is about the right price for a bottle of wine, then a meal for two. Doesnt look good does it guys. Not sure what to do with it. Do I put it back in his pocket even? He must have forgotten about it to leave it there. And who paid for the room?

(((Indie)))

I am so sorry. First things first - stay calm and do not let on that you suspect anything. This is a battle of "wits".

A voice activated recorder in his car would be ideal. Can you buy a prepaid visa at the grocery store and use that to purchase the VAR?

If it helps you feel any better, you have the advantage here because you are here at MB and have already learned the principles.

Stay strong! You will get through this.

I can get my sister to buy it and give her the cash. More concerned which one / where in Uk can I buy? Need to hear from someone who has used one. Have posted in the snooping forum.

Just found his shift rota (hidden beneath the laptop) so I at least now he IS going to work tonight like he says he is.

He is majorly hostile towards me now, this has been almost to the minute since I told our widow friend about us kising. I feel unwell today (wonder why) and said a hug would make me feel better ('a hug wont make you better') I said I wouldnt call him at work tonight if he was going to be too busy 'why would you call me at work' then he went off in a major huff.

Indie,
Try to understand what is going on here. He is being hostile because it makes you seem like the bad guy and justifies the EA in his own mind.

Do not fall for this and strike back at him. It only serves to justify it more in his own mind.

PLAN A. Loving and caring wife.

Ask the moderators to move your thread to SAA.

Hugs.