Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 22 of 41 1 2 20 21 22 23 24 40 41
HoldHerHand #2518956 06/12/11 02:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
Just took an anxiety pill. Trying to find the brakes.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Have you consulted your doc about antidepressants?

Also, a journal may help.

You can also redirect your energy into doing nice things for your wife, household projects, or working out.

Remember, emotions live in the moment with no thought. They do not prompt action with regard for ten minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, or years beyond THIS moment.



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
Okay Mike, good deal -- I'd still like to see your wife post here. Has anyone posted "Joseph's Letter" for you, and if so, has your wife read it?

How much time are you spending together each week meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs? [Intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship & sexual fulfillment] It should be AT LEAST 20 hours/week and there should be blocks of time [3-4 hours] when you are meeting these needs - not just 15 minutes here and there. Make sure you are getting babysitters and going OUT together.

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

MrsWondering #2519001 06/12/11 06:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
We are meeting those IENs quite a bit and then some. This is the BEST outcome of this bad situation. I have never felt closer to her. We've booked a weekend away alone, we've walked around the neighborhood alone, we speak to each in without raising voices, we are doing the steps.

We are new couple and I like us. I do.

Not to pour salt on it, but I have a gaping wound that still needs closing and thats going take more time than I hoped it would.

Id like to read Joseph's letter if someone has it, please.

Last edited by MikeStillSmiling; 06/12/11 07:23 PM.

Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
HoldHerHand #2519003 06/12/11 06:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Have you consulted your doc about antidepressants?

Yes, on a AD for about 2 weeks.

Not enought working out.

Its the friggin emotions that take over and put into a tear and I dont want to AO at her so i come and vent. What can I tell you, Im having a rough go of it lately. I say one thing and my head says something else and I lose it.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Read your own sig, bro.

I remember early on that my entire psyche was fractured. I had like 9 distinct voices in my head arguing different things. Focus on your goal (recovery) and move toward that.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2519040 06/12/11 11:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Read your own sig, bro.

I remember early on that my entire psyche was fractured. I had like 9 distinct voices in my head arguing different things. Focus on your goal (recovery) and move toward that.

Ok, so that's normal? I thought I was the only one. The idea of a journal is awesome. It helps more than you know.


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,316
Originally Posted by MikeStillSmiling
Id like to read Joseph's letter if someone has it, please.

Here ya go, Mike:

Quote
Joseph's Letter.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

MrsWondering #2519102 06/13/11 08:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
Nice letter. Read it to my wife this morning. She got it. Didnt have much to add to what was already said over the passed 5 weeks. Im beginning to think and I she said it today, what they have in hindsight wasnt a relationship, it was something else. If it were a relationship, I have to believe there would be memories and things she'd be able to tell me more about emotions she felt. This was odd situation in my opinion. Doesnt make it easier for me to understand and I still have my questions but she has nothing more to say about.

She again apologized and continued to regret putting both me and her thru this.

At a certain point I may have to live with what I know as being all Ill ever know.



Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Mike... buddy. I hope you aren't trying to educate her or straighten her out.

You'll shoot yourself in the foot!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 447
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by MikeStillSmiling
Nice letter. Read it to my wife this morning. She got it. Didnt have much to add to what was already said over the passed 5 weeks. Im beginning to think and I she said it today, what they have in hindsight wasnt a relationship, it was something else. If it were a relationship, I have to believe there would be memories and things she'd be able to tell me more about emotions she felt. This was odd situation in my opinion. Doesnt make it easier for me to understand and I still have my questions but she has nothing more to say about.

She again apologized and continued to regret putting both me and her thru this.

At a certain point I may have to live with what I know as being all Ill ever know.

Hey Mike,

Just wanted to let you know that you're doing great and you are handling this in the right way by coming here with your questions and to vent...

One thing about your post reminded me of my own situation quite a bit...

I didn't understand the "arrangement" between the affair partners either because it didn't really fit with the idea of a "relationship" where they thought there was "love"...

That, of course, is because there was not even in the twisted, perverted sense that most affair partners think they are in "love".

Mrs.Flint was finally able to tell me what it was one day long after the affair between my ex-brother and her had ended...

and I think it is the case with your FWW and her affair partner also.

Mrs.Flint said they simply USED each other.

There was no deep feelings of attachement...

There was no "I've got to see you today or I'll just die."

There was no deep insight into each other's lives.

No soulmates.

No you brought out feelings I've never had...

They USED each other...

And DISCARDED each other...

Whenever one of them felt a need for an ego boost...

The other volunteered to meet it.

Like a soiled band-aid that they had used to cover up a wound in their souls that really needed surgery...

Not a band-aid.

I couldn't believe that that was all there was to answer my question as to why?

It couldn't be that simple.

But there is no deep, dark secret to it.

It's just selfishness and they used each other just like they used us...

It's just harder for us because we CHOOSE to stay and pick up the pieces...

When the affair partner bailed.

Because WE actually love them.

God bless.

Jim


FWW 48 had EA and PA affair with my brother which ended in 2006. Me BH 53. Happily recovering with a new and better marriage through MB!!! My thread - http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2110024#Post2110024
HoldHerHand #2519138 06/13/11 09:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
I dont think Im doing that. Im trying to get her to understand that the sheer length of the time spent with another man is crushing me mentally. And, she does know this. Im not so interested in the details of the sex and good times, I just wanted to learn more about her motivation and feelings about being what I see as her being another married man's side action. Its not very glamorous for her I know that. But, I given her every opportunity to express herself about, not the recent part of the A which I think I have a grasp on, but the early days of it. When she claims it to be a "relationship".

Im just about done asking as she is either buried it in her mind, or doesnt have much further to add from what I learned already.

Not reprimanding or talking down and definitely not AO,ing. Trying to make sense of a nonsensical thing.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
Took me almost a full year to end grieving, and that's the toughest part when all of these things consume you.

It's referred to in the grieving process as "bargaining."

Just hold on, brother. The grief is the wildest part of the coaster.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2519258 06/13/11 02:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
My wife responed to Joseph's Letter with her own analogy of the "missing pieces of the puzzle" with respect to me needing the details. She says sometimes in life you get a puzzle and after putting together as best you can, you sometime have missing pieces to complete it. What do you do? You put the puzzle together as best as you can and you leave the missing parts to your own thoughts to complete the picture.

Time to move on from the A and focus on new puzzles and our life. Deep thoughts from Mrs. Mike.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
Mike,

I'm not a veteran nor an expert, but you need some serious restraint.

Your WW seems to be responding and genuinely wanting to make your marriage the best it can be. Her efforts are the stuff that 99% of us betrayed spouses would have LOVED to see from their partners.

And you're on the verge of blowing it all.

You've hashed and rehashed all the details of the affair over and over, and your WW has been completely forthcoming. Knowing more won't help your emotions at this point.

You have bombarded her and bombarded her over and over again about how the length of the affair has left you with a gaping wound. She gets it at this point.

At some point she is going to weary of the fight if all her efforts are not helping you get over this. At some point she is going to start feeling resentment, like you are continually throwing it back in her face.

At this point you need to table all discussion of the affair. She know's it was her fault, she knows how deeply it hurt you, she knows how much work it will take to recover. Stop talking about it and just get busy.


schtoop #2519313 06/13/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
Well taken. And, Im certainly been fearful of doing it, but Im near psychotic over this thing and I cant yell at her and cant do this and I cant do that so if shelfing the topic is the only f-ing option, then Im going have work harder at doing it. Wish I knew how.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
Originally Posted by MikeStillSmiling
Well taken. And, Im certainly been fearful of doing it, but Im near psychotic over this thing and I cant yell at her and cant do this and I cant do that so if shelfing the topic is the only f-ing option, then Im going have work harder at doing it. Wish I knew how.

It is frigging hard. darn near impossible at your stage... near impossible, not impossible.

Get a recover notebook. just a 1 subject notebook. Don't use it for anything else but what i'm suggesting...

Write down your questions in there. every time one pops up... those neat little moleskins work nice too. You don't have to ask everything that pops in your mind at that exact moment. Write it down.

Wait an hour or so. Go back through them and see if she's already answered them.. once you stop obsessing on them. Writing them down helps you not to obsess.


Now.. how often are you asking questions still? A couple times a day? Let's say if you are asking 2x a day, see if you and your W can bear going one day with no q's and then ask the Q's you've written down.

in fact, leave some space under your Questions so she can answer them in writing. Let her write her answer for you in the book. That way when the same Q pops into your head you can look back and see she's answered it.

If that works and once you are used to waiting a day, see if you can go 2 days... then 4, etc... DON'T ask the same Q's over. Capice?

It worked well with us.

CV


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 552
Just do it!

I suspect that conversation is one of her top emotional needs. It is one of the big 4!

Talk about her day at work. Talk about your day at work. Talk about the trip you're going on in a couple of weeks. Talk about the LeBron James choke if you want. Put in a movie and cuddle. Reminince (sp?) about the early days of your marriage and dating, about trips you've been on. Cook a great dinner together. Enjoy the dinner and a bottle of wine. Go for a walk or bike ride.

Court her like you've only known her a few weeks and are totally smitten.

All of this will not only make her feel better, it will help you take your mind off of all this.

Just don't hammer her about the affair anymore.

Last edited by schtoop; 06/13/11 06:40 PM.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 995
The question that remains is unanswerable as far as she is concerned and that is the big WHY? And I have gotten as close to this answer as Im going to get. And an earlier post by Jim Flint really put my head in the right direction because it fits this relationship quite well. I let her read it and she only added that the OM developed an obsession of my wife and she was too weak and/or whatever psychobabble description for it to fight him off or simply say no. The both had an itch and they scratched it.

Im trying my best to use this as my "move forward" moment.


Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
MikeSmile #2519318 06/13/11 06:47 PM
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
Mike,

Actually, you are really at a very normal place given it has only been 5 weeks since you found all of this out. You said
Quote
So I'm really not sure at this point.... I feel more for my DH right now, then I have in years. We are moving forward in our lives again (which completely STOPPED for the entire 2 years me and OP were involved...). I wanted nothing to do with my DH or a future with him in that time. I wanted out, and nothing more. My feelings have changed so drastically, that I feel as though there is truly hope for our M! The more I read, and self assess, and learn..... the more I fall back into love with my DH and our life together.


You are falling in love with her because for the first time in a long time, if ever, the two of you are being honest and open with one another. Oddly, the time you should have had a lot of fear was when you two were NOT doing this. Then your marriage was in far more danger than it is now. The ignorance was making your feel safe. Now you are safer because you actually know what she is thinking now.

Please think about this. You will forgive her because...you two are getting closer, you two are finally becoming "one" as the Bible describes it. Let's look at a few things.

1. She and you had the opportunity to end this marriage. Her because she had the chance and you because of her affair, you have not. What does that tell you? It tells me that there is more to your marriage then either of you realize then and perhaps even now. Does this fact instill fear in you?

2. She chose YOU. She chose you to marry. She chose you to try and rebuild her marriage after her complete betrayal. Does she really need you to survive? Nope, she does not. Is this something you fear?

3. She has chosen the path of honesty. Does that instill fear?

4. You love her and want the marriage to continue on a more intimate basis. Does this instill fear? I'm betting it does because you are vulnerable and more for getting closer to her than you have been in years. Should you fear this? On the surface yes, but in reality, it means you know her better, will sense her moods and feelings better. The closer you get to her, the safer you will actually be.

5. You have survived one of the worst things that can happen to a person...being betrayed by one you love. You now know you can survive, is this something you should fear? I don't think so. You now know your strength.

Mike I could go on. Examine your fears and what is driving them and I think they will begin to diminish. You are safer if you are close to her and she is close to you. Let her get close to you and love you.

I will leave you with a diabolical thought. You want revenge? Well the very best revenge is to love your W, be a great husband and father, and a wonderful human being. Her betrayal will seem all the more loathsome to her if you do this.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Page 22 of 41 1 2 20 21 22 23 24 40 41

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 758 guests, and 71 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bibbyryan860, Ian T, SadNewYorker, Jay Handlooms, GrenHeil
71,838 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5