This post was timely SOL. Not to t/j but it wouldn't be the first time for me and schtoop on that...

Friday I had a conversation with NG and it had been a few days since we had seen each other. My tone came through wrong on the cell phone and NG got to thinking all different negative thoughts. By the time I got to see her on Saturday she was in a bit of a state and we had to work through it all. [fortunately she's a very forgiving and trusting person and doesn't want to linger with any negativity so when it's in the past, it's in the past]. I have to say the way we talked through it was so refreshing - difficult at first, but still so much different than what I'm used to...

Basically it was a little communication issue. HOWEVER, it was also rooted in the BALANCE issues that we've been struggling with. Balance, and maybe lack of confidence rooted in both NG's and my history of being hurt/betrayed. We mostly only text when I have my kids (3-4 days/wk). But that creates distance. And the distance, we've found, has created a disconnect. We've decided to be a little more free with direct communication when I have the kids.

Sound familiar Schtoop? or what experience have you had with anything like this?


I know. NG encourages me to spend some time on my own doing things I need to do. I try but I'd rather be with her. It's not that I'm lonely, I just really like being around her. It's like I'm breathing different air or something. If I do get time on my own it's strictly for chores and things around the house. I would not enjoy going "out" without her.

I hope PG likes to fish!

opt

Oh yeah, Opt, very familiar. I have had several similar discussions with PG. She is very open and frank and says that she can�t help but be jealous or resentful of the time I spend with my kids. We will have a great 3 or 4 days together when I am without the boys, then see each other only a little when I have them. She can�t help but feel lonely because I have the boys to take up my time away and enjoy, where she only has a lonely house.

Of course she recognizes me as a great father and knows the children are my priority, and she wouldn�t respect or care for me if I didn�t treat them as such. But, that doesn�t make it easier when we have to be apart.

How do I deal with this issue? First, I make time and fun occasions where she can join me and the boys. Sunday dinner is a regular thing. We�ve gone hiking and even camping for a few days together. We plan on going out on the boat on Memorial Day. Including her in our Easter celebration was huge.

Secondly, I let her know through words and actions that the children are a priority, but that doesn�t mean that she is a distant second or afterthought. One way is to still be available for special events even when it is your time with the children. On several occasions I have hired a baby sitter so that we could go to a special show or party that PG wanted to go together to. Declining all such invitations because you have the kids is a good way to show NG that she is just second fiddle.

I�ll close with a recent story. Me and PG had a great weekend together last weekend. Monday started my time with the boys, but we had talked about me bringing them to her neighborhood pool that afternoon. Well, after I picked the boys up from school and got home, the weather had turned cool and cloudy and I had a ton of stuff that needed catching up on at my house. So I called and politely declined coming over to her pool. She totally understood the reasons, but the disappointment was still there and it reinforced the reality that I still have a somewhat separate life. We talked through it, and she adamantly told me I did nothing wrong, but it did bring the same old issue back to the surface.

Uh oh, we seem to have hit a bump in the road.

Not the first, but this one may be longer lasting or more significant.

A bit of history, Preacher Girl (PG) and I have known from the start that we are still fresh off our divorces and in no hurry to jump into another marriage. I never really spelled it out in this thread, but throughout our 7 month relationship we had never pledged exclusivity to each other. My position was that I was perfectly happy being with her alone, that I didn't feel the need (or the time, to be frank) to look elsewhere. Her position was that she wasn't actively looking for other dates, but wasn't ready to close off all other possibilities yet. We both knew where we stood and were fine with it. She always chose to be with me, there has never been an occasion when I was free to be with her and she had plans with someone else.

That changed a few weeks ago, we have grow very close and started actually thinking (or dreaming) about a long-term future together. She declared me her "boyfriend" and said that it would be only me now.

I knew this was moving along too fast and there would still be ebbs and flow in our relationship, but it felt really good to be getting to that place.

Fast forward to last Friday, PG got a call not from her ex-husband, but from her daughter informing her that the ex-husband was getting married (their divorce has only been final for a year). She was incensed and triggered at the same time, first for having to hear if from her daughter, and secondly because it was so soon. The news really put her in a funk, and now she's re-evaluating everything.

She says from seeing his situation that she realized we have been moving way to fast and she is nowhere near ready for this kind of committment or plans of a future together. So she is "pulling back" a little in her words, and that also means she's not ready to cut off the possibility of seeing someone else. She still loves me and doesn't want to "pull away", just wants to return to where we were just a few weeks ago, taking it day by day and enjoying each other.

I truly appreciate how she feels and that she is being completely up front and honest with me, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Boxing her in or making demands will do nothing but drive her away, so I'm doing my best to meet her where she is comfortable. The truth is that I got caught up in it also, but I am far from ready to consider a more permanent arrangement myself. I told her this, but at the same time I let her know that she is everything I would want when I am ready.

So, it sucks to move backwards instead of forward, but where we were a few weeks ago isn't such a bad place, either.

In a totally unrelated note, ex-WW has gotten under my skin this week. DS10 showed up on the changeover on Friday with a new prepaid cell phone his mom gave him and allows him to carry. I wouldn't have gotten him one yet, but no big deal especially if she is paying.

Only thing is guess what? It's her friggin' old affair phone! Complete with a history of calls to the OM back from before we had made the decision to divorce. I know it's just a piece of hardware and I'll just erase the call history, but what a thing to give your son.

Waywards do the damnest things.

Sorry if I am being out of line by asking, but have you and PG not been "intimate" so far? If not, then more power to you, but if you have, then isn't it a bit inappropriate to be pondering the possibility of seeing someone else after already taking that plunge?

AGG

I see no reason why you should have to constantly trigger just because your X is thoughtless...maybe you could get him a different phone and sell that one? Or at least clear the history! It'd be nice if the number was changed too. Grrr!

As for slowing down in your relationship...try to view it as a good thing, something protective for both of you, as a safeguard, rather than seeing it as going backwards. It's not a rejection of you, but rather a reminder (from the past) of what neither of you wants to happen. If it's meant to be, it will still work.

Thanks, Kay.

I'm not too triggered by the phone, it's just a piece of hardware. I'll just clear the history and think nothing more of it.


This is exactly how we are viewing it. The openess and honesty that we share is one of the things that is great about this relationship. PG said she could have spared my feelings and just kind of acted like things were still the same, but that she wasn't pretending for anyone ever again (after doing so long in her marriage).

Of course, what frightens me terribly is the possibility of PG meeting someone wealthier, no kids, charming, and I get left behind. But, I guess that's always a possibility regardless...

I don't know if you saw my post/question just before kay's post, but I don't understand this at all... Who the heck goes looking for other prospects after several months of a monogamous relationship, even if it is "just dating"? Looking for other people to meet is not the same as "slowing down", so I don't understand what she is trying to do.

AGG

I think she's trying to back up to where they were prior to entering into an exclusive relationship...it's not easy to do this and I'm not sure everyone could. If someone is interested in someone, I have no idea why they'd want to date someone else, esp. if they've already gotten to know them and been seeing them exclusively. Keeping your options open is usually at the beginning, not midway into a relationship.

Exactly. That's why I am puzzled as to how/why she wants to put the genie back in the bottle.

AGG

That had been our understanding the whole 7 months (that we weren't officially "exclusive"), it only changed two or three weeks ago. And it's not like she's dating around while we've been going out, she hasn't been out with anyone else since early in our relationship. And it's not like she is out there actively seeking others, she just doesn't want to be boxed in so soon after her divorce.

Kay is right, it is definitely hard to go back.

Very easy to explain: She got very scared at how much she cares for you. She revisited the pain her XH caused her when she found out he was remarrying. This caused her to panic. Give her time...it will go back to the way it was. Trust me, BTDT!

I might not have much helpful to add to astute comments of my colleagues here, but I just wanted to chime in with support for your stuggles and make a couple of observations.
~good to see you schtoop. I'm always interested to hear how things are going with you.
First I have to say - another uncanny paralell: my DD10 just acquired a phone over the weekend too, compliments of exFIL during a shopping trip with exww. spooky.

I don't know about the exclusivity thing. Nature Girl and I made it pretty clear early on that we weren't interested in seeing other people. We just had too much fun together. I don't think our realtionshiop would be the same if we didn't have that understanding.

The only thing that jumped out at me schtoop about PG is that she has feelings one way or the other about how soon her ex should tie the knot again. Something's off there, in my mind...

opt

I understand that part, which is why I think having a relationship (as opposed to just dating) soon after a divorce is never a good idea.

Still, this state of mind is very odd for someone who has been involved in a relationship for 7 months:



Maybe I am getting caught up in semantics.. Obviously no one ever "cuts off the possibility of meeting someone else" until a ring is put on... So what is she trying to say with this comment?

AGG

Thanks for chiming in, guys, everyone has valid points.

I believe that what Brits is saying is true at more than one level. It also scares her to feel as strongly for me as she does knowing my situation (young children, tied to this town).

She is also very outgoing, loves the attention and flirting, and has scores of suitors who would love to step in. This was OK for a while, felt really good for my ego that I was the one she chose to be with. Not very safe now that she is "pulling back", and I don't need you guys to tell me this.


Definitely says she's not ready for a ring! But, neither am I in spite of the recent "imagining" of more.

Where this leaves us and where will we go from here, I am as confused as you guys.

She is leaving tomorrow for three weeks at her father's place in New England. I will be joining her in a week to spend 7 days there with her. Maybe a little time away, then time for just the two of us, will clarify things a little. Maybe not.

I'm going to try not to overanalyze things and just have a good time when I'm up there.

After that, we'll see if I (or we) can be happy with just taking it day by day.

Funny, I had a very different image of her until you said this. I saw her as a more pensive and reserved kind of person, shows you how much the internet leaves out.. Ya think ya know someone and then...

Anyway, the reality is that life is full of "other prospects"; some folks are better than others at resisting them. It's how folks handle these "other prospects" that really matters. Some tend to avoid and ignore them, others attract and enjoy them. I can see how being involved with someone who is flirty and outgoing can be disconcerting, especially when they tell you that they are not closed to the idea of meeting other people. If it helps, I was married to a woman just like that, thinking (mistakingly) that once she was married, the flirting and the awareness of other men would stop. Even after divorce, I initially ended up dating a woman like that. Then I realized that I don't want to always have to worry about who is chasing after my wife, or whom my wife is eyeing. Life is too short to have to put up with that, I decided. So I became more and more attracted to women who did not need men's attention for validation, which is exactly the type of woman I am married to now, and couldn't be happier.

Coming back to your situation schtoop, it seems like there is not much you can do at this point. We all know you can't keep someone against their will (with or without a ring), and if they need to pull back, pull away, or whatever, that is their prerogative. All you can control are your reactions to their actions. And here I would urge you to take the longer view of things, not just "how do I not lose this great woman?", but take a long hard look at whether this is the right woman for you, and especially if the reverse is true. Since someone for whom you are not right is by definition wrong for you too, you might want to think about those things you mentioned above, the stuff about small kids and being tied to this town. If she does not want that, then best to deal with it sooner rather than finding out later that those were big issues for her.

Still, I'm not sure how the idea of "taking it one day at a time" can work for someone who has been involved in a relationship for 7 months already. It's very hard to go back.

I hope everything works out for you and PG, schtoop.

AGG

Now you've got it, AGG. Pegged her and the situation perfectly.

Like your story about being with the flirty women whe need attention. The vivacious outgoing personality is one of the things that so attracted me to her, but is also a negative once you start talking about lifetime committments, boundaries, and EP's. If we got to that point, it would have had to be addressed. Good comments about finding someone who doesn't need that kind of attention.

You are also right about not controlling her, only myself. I've had a ton of fun and fullfilment to this point being with her.

If we can return to where we were just two or three weeks ago, then I'm great with that and will continue to enjoy her company. We can be together without the pressure of having to build to the ultimate goal of a lifetime committment.

If its too hard to go back, or if she pulls back too much farther, then we may have to re-evaluate. Like you say, better now than later.

Thanks for the perspective, it jives pretty well with my own thoughts.

good insight from AGG as usual. Thanks AGG - goes to me too...
........."clarify", or obscure?.........
This picqued my interest. I've had a couple getaway weekend with NG, just me and her. Very romantic and with $LB deposits going sky high. But then reality hits on Monday am: work, kids, schedules. Makes it hard for me to see the TRUE nature of the relationship. IE: are we REALLY in love, or just floating on the feelings of exclusive attention for a couple days? Is this normal? Maybe it's not recommended by MB/relationship epxerts to set up these kinds of "dates" until cartain points in the relationship have been reached....

Just thinking out loud schtoop - shamelessly borrowing your thread for my own selfish purposes once again.

opt

Sure, I'm happy to offer perspective any time . That's the "beauty" of having dated for 10 years before remarrying - experience .

You are right, vivacious and outgoing are very attractive qualitites in a partner, especially to someone who just got divorced and has become used to being "neglected" in the marriage - nothing like someone "exciting" coming along and choosing YOU - what a great esteem builder! And again, there is nothing wrong with that, it just has to fit in with what personality type is right for you.

For me, I learned painfully (through my marriage/divorce) and quickly (through dating afterwards) that the outgoing and flirty women were attracted to me because of my stability (and hopefully good looks ), but in time they got bored with me. Moreover, even if they did not get bored with me, their boundaries of interactions with men were totally different than what I would have wanted. That was an issue with my ex and me throughout our marriage. So, since you can't change 'em, I decided to stick to women more like me in that sense - someone who is comfortable with herself, and does not need to be validated by men all the time. Because the reality is I knew that I could not change them, and yet I would not be comfortable "sharing" or having them flirt or be flirted with... So I realized that for me, the more reserved personality type was more appropriate. It was a very big and useful learning experience, because as soon as I started dating the less "exciting" women, I was instantly much happier. In fact, nowdays, when I see those outgoing and flirty women (like my ex ), I tend to shudder, because they truly make me uncomfortable. It just took some looking and trying to see what worked best for me.

I am not saying that the same will work for you, since you are not me . I will however say that flirting (with people other than your partner) is not consistent with the MB philosophy, so that is something that you might really want to evaluate at some point - would PG be comfortable with the "limits" that you think are appropriate in a relationship, EPs, etc.

I know you are worried and somewhat afraid of losing her, and I understand that... But remember, if she decides that you are not the one for her, then most likely she is not the one for you either. It's a two way street, and you want to find someone who will think that you are the cat's meow, and vice versa.

AGG

Schtoop, do you have any updates?

Thanks for checking on me and dragging up this old thread!!!

Not much to update...still doing well.

I'm still seeing Preacher Girl nearly every day and we thoroughly enjoy being together.

Still just taking it as it comes, neither of us ready to jump back into the marriage boat after being on our own a relatively short time. She is still not ready to take on the role of stepmother for younger children, and I don't blame her one bit and the truth is that I'm probably not ready either.

I still think she's the most beautiful, passionate, and fun woman I've ever been with and is certainly someone I would consider marrying and would be proud to call my wife.

Boys are doing well and seem pretty well adjusted to having two households.