.... my head has started bobbing, not from your thread but it's late here and I'm tired.

My heart is very heavy and angry right now. I have been flitting around the computer, and I stumbled on a thread on the Christian forum where I post. It was made by someone whose H cheated twice. There were several encouraging posts about him being honest and needing accountability, etc.

THEN this guy posts this long diatribe about how nobody ever bothers to find out WHY cheaters cheat and how usually both spouses are responsible because something that the BS did or didn't do can CAUSE the cheating spouse to HAVE to cheat. Then he went on to the whole what if you got no attention or affection and lived in constant sexual frustration, and that his own wife was unfaithful to HIM in this way and he was dying of loneliness yada yada yeah yeah.

I responded with a play by play of my choice and what was going on in our marriage and how infidelity was still not justified, and how I was the one who had cheated. That my BH real or imagined shortcomings in no way mitigated my responsibility for breaking this most sacred vow. Comparing DH's busy and distant neglect to my sharing a bed with another man....is like comparing driving 55 in a 45 zone to driving my car drunk through a daycare.

I am not sure who I am writing to. More to BS's, even though I am not one. Don't believe the lie that an affair is your fault. Don't believe that if you had done this or that different;y it never would have happened. Marriage is made up of two imperfect people, but neither of those people get to deal with that imperfection by "rutting" - as Mel says. If you're reading this as a BS, yes, you are a victim. But because you are reading it here you are an EMPOWERED victim. You have a team of people who have run and are running the race. You are in good hands. And one of these days YOU will be those good hands. You are strong. Many people cower and cry in their rooms, never telling another soul for fear of embarrassment or shame. You found these forums and bore your soul. Some of the advice seems crazy, but when you argue, they set you straight. If you wimp out, they 2X4 you. But you still come back. You are in boot camp for an army nobody wanted to join. But an army who can be That friend, that relative, that colleague, who helps someone else through their adultery.

As I was ticked off by the doofus' posts, and as I was firing back, it occurred to me. This is one of THOSE things. This is a passion. Waking people out of the fog, holding their feet to the fire. I feel like one of those ex-drug addicts that they send out to schools to tell kids not to do drugs. I wish I could talk to foggy people before they take that awful, reversible step.

I wish I could talk to foggy people before they take that awful, reversible step.

GM, you are still trying to control outcomes. We desire to control outcomes in order for US to look and feel good. Our selfishness drives this desired outcome. It's a selfish habit!

This was the last sentence of my first post. I just assumed whoever read it would know that the man is my DH. No secrets there.

When I confessed my A on July 25,2006, I did not expect DH to forgive me. I am not sure if I expected him to leave right away. You see, he was still in school and I was teaching full time, so I knew that in some sense he needed me. But I never ever expected to be forgiven. That he even began moving toward that was something that surprised me AND something I knew I did not deserve. And yes, I was very grateful, it was good for me as well as him.

I do have one confession. My A was 4 1/2 years ago, but a couple of days ago a few cutting remarks are made about whether or not it was my only A and whether or not my children were really his. Not by DH - he knows the truth. But my a stranger who has never met me.

And it pissed me off. Not just because I know that truth and this person was a stranger, but because I knew where it came from.

When a person has an A, they are a horrible creature. They wreak more pain and havoc than can be imagined. They are supremely ugly. I was supremely ugly. I'm not anymore. God knows that, DH knows that, and I know that.

The thing about relishing unforgiveness is, it eventually turns into bitterness. And bitterness is ugly too....and it sees ugliness everywhere else, even where there is not any.

That is your extreme "taker" voice.
Your Taker is trying to protect you. OK, fine.
Sometimes you have to recognize when Miss Taker is being overly creative and presenting feelings as if they were facts.

MV,
My advice is to treat any positive response from your BH as irrelevent to your efforts (with one exception.) In the main, do EVERYTHING you can to remind him a)why he fell in love with you and married you, and b)why any future without you would sub-optimize his own happiness.

The exception I noted above is that you will get better results by monitoring and adjusting your efforts to improve their effectiveness as you do detect any reaction from him.

You can do this. It will not be easy. You may falter in your commitment to the process if his position does not seem to waver from his current hard line. That's when you come back here, and we'll re-energize your thrusters, okay?

Mrs. Vanilla,

You have hung in there for a long time, your husband hasn't left I agree I think you can sway him back to you in the years to come, little by little, have you considered asking him for the things you need explain to him that if he is going to stay until the kids are gone you will need something from him.........tell him you do understand his feelings but you are a person that needs something too.....
Tell him if he still wants to go then that you will let him go then.........ask him to just enjoy each others company become friends again............
I think sooner or later he will come around......be the wife he wants to come home to.

......be the wife he wants to come home to.

Lol @ NG.

Mrs. V is definitely in a Dread Pirate Roberts situation.

"Good work today, Mrs V. I shall surely leave you in the morning..."

(Princess Bride if you ain't seen it, V)

Mawage. Mawage is wot bwings us togeder tooday. Mawage, that bwessed awangement, that dweam wifin a dweam... And wuv, tru wuv, will fowow you foweva...

lol - love "The Princess Bride"!!!

Mrs. V, I don't really have anything helpful to add, but you've been so wonderful to me with your advice and support I just wanted to say I am thinking about you and I can certainly empathize!

I wonder sometimes if, after what we did, our BH's don't truly believe they can give us what we need - in reading back over your thread again, and thinking about some of the things my H has said, and reading some of the words of BH's here...forgive me if I start stepping into DJ territory here:

None of us instinctually "knew" what made a good M. My H and I, for example. His parents' M was horrible. My parents' M was good, but (knowing what I know now) they weren't a perfect M either. So our BH's did what they thought they needed to do to be good H's. What they thought was their best effort could not stop either you or I from having an A - even though logically they can understand that our A's were not their fault, there's this nagging little voice that tells them that their best was not good enough, and add that to the fact that we absolutely destroyed the trust they had in us, I can understand why our BH's would throw up their hands and say, "what's the point? I gave my best, and it wasn't good enough!" Maybe it is that catastrophizing thing again, or something else...but I get a feeling sometimes that my H doesn't believe he can meet my needs...maybe deep down inside he didn't believe he was "enough" before and in his eyes, my A confirmed that for him. I dunno. I'm probably perilously close to DJ'ing so I'll stop. What I hope is that if I keep trying, if I keep fighting for him, that he'll realize he is worth the world to me, and that one day, he will see himself through my eyes and know that he is amazing.

I'm just rambling tonight...but if nothing else, maybe I'll give you a little nudge to keep up the fight, just like you have nudged me along!