I hate the whole lets be friends be nonsense, I got it a lot.Its because he cant see letting you go entirely, even in the fog. but its totally maddening to hear.

Did you ever say the friends thing as a ws?

hugs are good! youre doing well.

Thanks, Indie - that's a hopeful perspective, that he can't see letting me go entirely. This fog this is a pain. I wonder how long it takes to wear off after a 2 month, online-only affair.

How long did it take for you? Remember we know you have been throgh this also so you should not have to ask us things like that. First things first is I think this was a RA because you never fully committed from you A either.

I REALLY. Think you should email the radio show. They would love to help you with this when they hear your story. There answers would help alot of us also.

LD - I was so scared of losing my H that when he confronted me the second time, I went to NC immediately. We had hysterical bonding, and I had no fog or withdrawal because I had been shocked into seeing how close I came to losing him.

He hasn't had that, and only agreed to NC for our son, so it's a different situation.

Seraph, I disagree with this statement. The circumstances under which you began posting this time around were deceitful; any wayward who is truly reformed will, I believe, recognize the importance of openness and honesty - especially when coming to this environment seeking help for recovering from further infidelity - and will own his or her past 100%. The fact that you didn't speaks to a level of selfishness that overrides the integrity required to triumph over infidelity - either yours, or your WH's. IMHO.


See, the thing is, Brokengirl/Seraph, infidelity is not really all that different. I understand the fear of losing something you value (to put it mildly), and I understand how that can drive some obsessive, crazy-making, worrying thoughts. The good thing is that recovering from infidelity is pretty much the same here at MB - Plan A, Plan B where necessary, you work your side of the street, etc., etc., etc.

You still have folks posting to you, willing to help you through this. Brush up on your Plan A reading if you need to, and focus on what's under your control: your actions/fixing yourself and meeting your WH's ENs. Your situation actually sounds quite hopeful, providing you work the plan.

Thank you for posting. I've been revisiting The Plan A thread daily, if not more often. WH is obviously not interested in Plan A-ing me. I'm working to meet his needs as he will let me, but it's hard to see any hope in the face of his withdrawal and longing for OW and continous discussion about divorce.

You are right, though, that it is selfish bevaviour to seek help on my terms - I need to seek it on MB terms. And I'm grateful for those who still post to me despite my poor behaviour.

Seraph, I'm still here.

He still misses OW. Great to keep hearing that.

He hasn't had that, and only agreed to NC for our son...

I'm sure you acknowledge the small chance of the second with the perpetuity of the first, right? By implementing the snooping elements I suggested yesterday, you will at least know if/when he breaks NC, but the real victory will only be achieved when YOU are a better supplier of those ENs he was sourcing through OW than SHE was.

THINK! You've been here long enough in your two tenures to list them probably better than me. Recreate in your mind what his interfacing with OW would have contained.

You have said that there was no opportunity for in-person SF. Okay, was there any chance of phone / text / Skype actions? Depending on his degree of imagination, SHE might not even have had to be involved. Doesn't matter. Get jiggy with him, somehow. You ARE in-person, right?

Admiration is probably a BIG one, at least admiration for the fantasy character he assumed during their WoW sessions. How do you plan to attack that? I don't know him, or you, but you MUST find something REAL (no fabricating this stuff) that you can provide admiration about to him. (During our recovery, my wife mentioned that she loved the few black-eyed susans that unexpectedly popped up on our front yard. The next time I mowed, I purposely went around them. When she saw that, her reaction interms of complimenting me was......great.)

Recreational companionship also suggests itself. Do NOT try to go at this directly, by suggesting he and you join a different fantasy exercise. Did he develop an appreciation for militaria from WoW? Find the nearest battlefield park, arrange for a trip there (You do it ALL!), claiming YOU want to tour it. Subscribe to a military history magazine for both of you to read.....and READ it!

Continue with ALL of them. You don't care about primacy; you're going for totality. You're competing with a mirage, dammit. You've got to be able to beat THAT!

Ok. As far as snooping goes, I'll get a VAR and put it in the car this weekend, but I suspect contact, if it happens, will be a phone call to/from his office/her office. Her BH and I are in contact daily so hopefully we'll at least find out and let the other know, but it's hard to be certain.

Given his ongoing foul mood and general crankiness, combined with OWH telling me she's not interested in contacting him, I'm hopeful that contact has not occurred.

There was phone sex and cybersex. I am in person - we still live together and sleep in the same bed (although he puts a wall of blankets between us), but he is not at *ALL* interested in SF with me. He has hugged me a couple times during difficult conversations where I cried, but that's the extent if the touching for the last 6 weeks.

I'm sure she met his need for admiration by conversation - he could tell her all the stories he loves to tell about himself. I'm not sure how to do that - I've been trying to have non-forced conversation with him, but he's so withdrawn it's hard.

I have been admiring of him where the opportunity presents itself - when he tells a story of something good he did at work, etc.

He likes hiking and Geocaching, so we were doing that, but he was so cranky (missing the OW, I guess, although I didn't know it at the time) that it was miserable for our DS so I stopped. Maybe I should start up again - finding the caches and arranging the trips.

For other emotional needs - attractive wife - I think I meet that pretty well, and I've taken an effort to being more "put together" when I see him in the mornings (no sweatpants and big t shirts), family commitment - that one is pretty easy as well. I'm doing well with Honesty & Openness, although it's hard to balance it against LB, so I need to continue to focus on that.

Affection is another one that he just won't let me meet right now, at least not physically, so I'm looking for ways to meet it verbally and emotionally.

Your attitude sounds great, lots of calculations...

Here's an Art of War quote for you

"The general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes no calculations..."

Going by appearances OW and the wayward alien part of your husband are not making any calculations! Snooping is your way of making sure they arent making plans. The fogginess is doomed to defeat!

sure the vets can help out with more tips on the ENs. They are masters.

Thanks, Indie - you're right that I can't flail about without a plan. I will meet the EN he let's me meet, and do my best to avoid/deflect D talk.

He's home now and cranky as all get out. I haven't asked why - I suspect he'd say "Work" or something about being around me being too stressful, but we're on day 5 of NC with OW (confirmed again with her H), so I suspect that's the more likely culprit.

Thinking of going to a festival on Saturday with S, but not sure about inviting WH, if he's going to act like a lion with a thorn in his paw.

Honestly, I know I keep posting about it, but I'm just floored by how cranky he is. And everything I've read says things are unlikely to improve until 3 weeks into withdrawal.

Two weeks from now, I might have packed for him!

I guess I knew he'd be cranky, but he's never been this way toward me before, ever, and I'm just flabbergasted.

Ill let the vets do this one. If you're really struggling I dont know whether youre supposed to stick it out or go into plan b to protect your mental health from his behaviour.

I think youre doing an amazing job. His cranky toddler persona is the ONLY defense he has against the yearning for your sexy caring self. He might crack sooner than you think!!!

Seraph,

I know he is cranky, when he does have a noticeable moment just say to him calmly that it's okay that you understand he is going through a lot.......
Tell him that you love him and could be his friend, I would find small ways of brushing by my husband when he was going through his withdrawal. Looking right into his eyes when I spoke, asking for hugs because I was upset, yours seems to be willing use that as some physical contact..........
I also used to make a little contact in the bed at night, by accident of course, hehe!!
every little moment makes a difference, I went to a therapist and he said that hugging probably really helped us connect again.
Don't let his bad mood stop you from being the best you can be, look good, smell good, cook his favorite food, do little things for him that he will notice when you aren't around.........
I used to say to my husband that I didn't do any of this, that he should be mad at himself and not me...... that I didn't deserve all the hurt that came my way but I could understand he made a mistake and I could forgive him because I was never out of love with him.
I would rent movies at first, and he would sit down with me and watch them, not a lot of talking at first and sitting on opposite sides of the room, but after a few weeks, on the couch together watching the movies and talking a bit each night.
My husband was in withdrawal for about 4 months, he worked with his OW.
I was patient and was thankful for each little moment that seemed positive, he now is the one that is working the hardest in this marriage, but at first I thought my marriage was over and that he was going to go to the OW....
so if it looks bad now don't give up, things change, fantasy hits reality and life doesn't look the same anymore........
sit back and have a solid plan to win your husband back.
I used the motivation thought that what my husband and his OW had underestimated in their plan was "ME" I wasn't going to let some other woman he had known for 2 months take my life..............game on Seraph.........
slowly and steady wins the race..........so to speak.
jessi

Seraph,

He is having what equates to a temper tantrum.


You took away his toys, and he is mad about it. Expect him to be mad.


I work with people, and my job is essentially to analyze "how they think", and to deconstruct their thoughts in order to fully understand how their thinking goes wrong. Then, I can figure out how to work around the issues and get them to "rethink" things (this is if the person is an adult - with kids its a little different).

Anyway.

Your husband is having a tantrum, and his deal with putting blankets between you is a way of getting at you. He wants and almost NEEDS you to comment on this. He wants you to "start something" over it.

Your best approach?

Do not say or do anything about it. He KNOWS this is childish. He knows he is acting out a scene from a teen romance movie, and wants you to do something dramatic, like pull the blankets out and attack him, so he can "fight you off".


Don't take the bait. He does this to make a point about how un-attracted he is toward you.


Fact is, I would say this is a LIE.

He remained in the home, and he is in the same bed with you.

He needs time, and your best bet is to stay silent during the temper tantrum.


By standing back, and allowing him time to throw his fit, you remove ALL OF THE POWER FROM THE TANTRUM.

Politely invite him to your activities with your son. Stay as happy as though tomorrow you were receiving a million dollar check in the mail. When he declines, politely tell him, "Okay, I thought you might enjoy it. We'll see you when we get back! You want a cookie?"


And be DONE with it.


Just as the affair BELONGS TO HIM.....his temper tantrum over being caught BELONGS TO HIM.


The affair is not about you. The tantrum is not about you.


The more attention you give to his crabby behavior, the more he will play it up.


Stay the course.


The MB course, that is. Plan A.


SB

Done with WH. Came crying to me today aboutnhow he's miserable without OW, they're in love, it's really for real. I told him to get out as fast as possible. I will not live with someone who is doing what he's doing. He seemed taken aback. I don't care. I've spent 6 weeks pouring my heart put in MC, taking every piece of blame he's thrown at me, owned all the bad things about our relationship, while he's been lying and cheating. No more. The sooner I never have to talk to him again, the better.

Oh Hun, thats tough.

It's all about him, it's all about him. Poor baby can't face up to reality and so is retreating into his sad fantasy world.

These men really are plonkers when they are faced with someone who will agree with them, hang on their every word, tell them they are marvellous and never never make them face any reality.

Of course it's all your fault, heavens he can't possibly take any responsibility here.....I mean, it just happened, he wasn't looking for it, it just happened.....honest.

He is still having a major tantrum, so maybe now is indeed the time to show him what life is like without the security blanket of Seraph.

Maybe now is time for Plan B but will leave that to the vets. But IMHO it seems well past time for him to open his eyes and take a peep round at his world and what he created.

OW?? is she still wanting this big cry baby??

He needs to pull on his big boy pants and face up to what his life will be like.

Tell him to move out, be sweet, understanding but firm.

Pack him some lunch in his favourite Superman lunch box, kiss him and tell him to have a good play time.

Then do something lovely to treat yourself!!

FWIW I don't think he would last a week and will be back begging and crying for Seraph to make it all alright again.

Silly wayturd.

And it's OK to be angry, p****d off and fed up. Just come here to vent honey

definitely sounds like Plan B time to me!!

I think you should use the time to really take care of yourslef, take a few indulgences and make it alla bout YOU. Youve worked so hard.

Lets see what WHAAAAMambalance man thinks of the real world - the one without your caring love and attention.

Will wait for the vets wise opinion, though.

ok this is going to hurt but has to be said as a reminder.

Plan B does not mean you are free to see or talk to other men. You have had an affair in your past so you are more susceptible to one now.

Basically watch out for RA's.

I don't care about who did what first, it is still wrong.

No worries there. At this point, I'm a bit down on men and not likely to fall in to anything, but will still be vigilant.