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I was able to before and she did not call anyone different. She had calls that I thought were weird and happened to be a new friend (female at work that listened) that I think had something to do with her leaving but am not sure.

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Am with Mel and others to snoop about an affair. At the very least you must realize she has decided that you are not fufilling her needs.

Her friend that listened probably does not know how to help her recover, and if not just wants her to be happy, which might be why she has moved out.

But her friend is not a marriage counselor, and we have no idea which way she is steering her. W could trust her more than she trusts you, wouldn't you?

You will need to contact the center and let them help you, and get W to talk to the counselors, and you can be assured, that they are not about,"Marriage at any cost". That is good news HC, because you must realize yourself, that is not the way God designed it. They are about restoring the marraige back to how it is supposed to be, two people willing to share a good life, and loving each other. Something you still need to learn how to do also. So make it clear they are more concerned about her happiness in her life, plus marriage, and that is why they are the most succesful in the country. she will not be forced into anything.

So this is what I suggest. Find out about snooping techniques, keyloggers, and even consider a PI. Find out if their is someone else, just to be sure, so you can know what you are going to have to fight. You stepped in it, and now there might be consequences that you before God must deal with.

If that turns up nothing, then you can also...

Contact her friend, tell her you want to work on your marriage, and that you are seeking good professional help. Feel her out at the same time, if she will even talk to you. Tell her if she is willing and wanting to help that you have a source and would like her to talk to them.

If her friend is hostile towards you, and/or you find out she is seeing someone, get back to us and Dr. Hs coaching center, where you can get more help.

Don't give up sir, Yes you can do everything possible to recover, but now you will have to do some heavy lifting, and it IS the right thing to do.

God bless

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I would not assume this is an affair. You have a lot of problems I don't post much but you have a big problem in your marriage. You work different shifts and you don't see each other. That makes it very hard.

I could not forgive my XW for sleeping with another man and I ended our marriage. I was not having an affair it was one iron clad requirement she had to meet to stay my wife. And that was she could not sleep with another guy. She knew the rules and she did it anyway. I know she loved me but I could live with myself for accepting that abuse so I ended it. I did divorce her because I could not stay married to her and forgive her. I do forgive her now since it served no purpose to beat her up with it anymore. I would have been a horrible husband with her and I did not want to be that guy.

You have a lot of work to do. It may be too late. It must of been hard on both of you to have different work shifts like that. It is hard to build a close relationship when you had live like that.

You can't build a relationship without spending time together. The one thing I would worry about is if you two have been alone that much it would let a person have enough time alone to develop feelings for another person.

Just my opinion but unless you two can find away to be together more then you have no chance. That would mean you would have to work the same shift and be together the rest of the time.

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Thanks for the last posts. I understand completely what I stepped into. I really believe my wife wants to get back together but not willing to admit it. Now that family and friends know they are all surprised that she chose to move out because it is not like her. I got it about her having an affair and will keep my eye on it. I will start to get counseling from Dr. H very soon. My biggest thing is how to react daily. She still wears my ring and we said we would do nothing that would not represent a husband and wife relationship. In other words, no going out with others until we possible get a divorce. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

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I wouldn't be so quick to say that your W is having an A either. For some ppl an A is a deal breaker. I have read millions of books, counseling and have been on this site for three years and I still know that I could NEVER sleep with another man and come home to my DH, look him in the eye like it's nothing.

I actually understand what your W is going through. I have almost left my DH at least twenty times since finding out about his A and it has been three years. Gaining back the respect for your spouse is so very hard. All the MB programs in the world sometimes doesn't help you with overcoming that kind of pain/betrayal, especially when you know you weren't neglecting your spouse before the A. Since my DH's A, I have daydreamed about leaving him and still feel so disrepected at times even though he has done everything to make up for his A.

Plan A your W but don't be too quick to assume that she is in an A. Sometimes betrayal is just too much for some ppl. After all, in the Bible it clearly states that adultery is grounds for D.

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HC,

Here is my take on your situation.

I wonder if your wife feels like she is in a tainted marriage, and that somehow you got away with having an affair and she is left with a marriage that is now clouded with the debris of that.

While you two received counseling, your wife may be carrying the full effects of the feelings of the affair, because most counseling does not come close to meeting the needs for aftercare in the case of betrayal.

I wonder if your wife carries a great deal of anger at you, because she feels somewhere in there you did not get some sort of punishment for what you did. Often, betrayed spouses feel that the wayward spouse did not offer compensation of some sort. Did your family know of your affair? Did your friends know? If not, she may feel that your friends and family see problems in the marriage and blame HER - or, she may blame herself, and know that YOU were to blame, and she is struggling with all of the issues surrounding this.

At the time of the affair, did your counselor point out what your wife "did" that "caused" you to have the affair? You see, this can lead a betrayed spouse to believe they are to blame for the affair, and lead the wayward to feel justified in having the affair. NOTHING COULD BE MORE WRONG!!!! You were NOT justified, and your wife was NOT to blame. There may have been issues in your marriage, but your choice to seek an affair was yours alone, and had no role in solving the problems, and had no relationship to your wife's behavior whatsoever. That affair belongs to you, period. Many counselors spread the blame for an affair around, but they are incorrect.

This sharing of the blame can have lasting repercussions, which may be what your wife is now facing. She instinctively KNOWS this affair was not her fault, and is still resenting this burden.



Another possibility is that your wife is seeking some sort of compensation from you that you just have not offered.


My thoughts are that she might want you to offer a public confession and apology, but you may want to discuss this with her. Renewing the vows was an attempt to clean up the marriage, but somehow that didn't work for her. She needs a clean start, and somewhere in there she is looking for something untainted. You need to go to her with THAT understanding.


Talk about how stains are washed away in your religion. I would understand that this concept should be one which may ring a bell...


SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
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Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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HC, perhaps b/c of the position I am in personally, I tend to agree with the folks who are saying not to be too quick to assume your W is having an A. cobol_girl said it above:

Originally Posted By: cobol_girl
For some ppl an A is a deal breaker. {snip}

...Gaining back the respect for your spouse is so very hard. All the MB programs in the world sometimes doesn't help you with overcoming that kind of pain/betrayal.... {snip}

Plan A your W but don't be too quick to assume that she is in an A. Sometimes betrayal is just too much for some ppl. After all, in the Bible it clearly states that adultery is grounds for D.


It's a sobering realization for the repentant and remorseful FWS, to finally let it sink in that sometimes we can do everything under the sun, but it may not be enough to save our marriages. Yes, MB works, but it takes both spouses. You and I are in the difficult - and perhaps atypical - position of being FWS's who desperately want to stay married to our BS's. The more common scenario for these boards is the reverse - the BS who is trying to save the M. In each case, the betrayal is present, but in neither case can restoration occur without both spouses going all in.

Give Plan A a shot - pursue her, woo her, date her. Women want to be pursued and fought for. I won't stop trying to meet my H's needs, but I've reached the point I believe I can accept what he wants, even if that is a D. No matter where our hearts are now, we made the decision to dissolve our M the instant we stepped out with the AP. I wish you the best of luck, HC.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Great notes SB. You hit the nail the head

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Ok, so go back to the beginning of recovery. You need to go to your wife and tell her that this thing is all WRONG.

1. Your counselor was STUPID. That counselor had the idea that the wife did something to "make" you have an affair, and that is completely messed up thinking. Tell your wife you had an affair because YOU CHOSE IT - because you were self-indulgent, and because you were seeking to have your needs met outside the marriage, and it was a complete and total mistake. You were completely and totally wrong in that, and your wife had absolutely zero blame in this decision.

she needs to hear this


2. Then, discuss when and where you are going to offer your confession to other people. The affair needs to be exposed, so your wife does not feel like she is living in a lie. You need to talk to people about how YOU are responsible for the issues in your marriage


and you need to do it fast.




SB


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
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Then,,,,


3. You need to talk to your wife about getting some recovery from your affair. Tell her that it is possible - but that the first go-round with counseling was probably not the best route. Tell her you have found the Harleys, and that their track record and plan for marriages is much more solid. That they can help create love again. Ask her if she would consider a few telephone sessions - and that you are attending with or without her, because you want to try to recover the marriage and learn to be a better husband either way.

because if the marriage recovers or not, you absolutely need to figure out what you have done wrong!


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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I have done all that you have said. I told her it was my fault and never blamed her. I definitely am at fault becasue I did something stupid. I hope to talk to her more about counseling and am willing to do what ever it takes for her to find happiness AND save our marriage. But she has to want to also and she doesn't know if she wants to save the marriage. She just wants to be happy

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I am far from having any answers, but I'm curiously watching this thread, because I see the other side,...and feel I may have some insight.

Lately, my struggles have been with this very issue -- unable to see past the cruelty H showed me with the affair and abandonment,....and receive the things he gives me now as trustworthy. All I can see is the revelations of his selfish, needy, inconsiderate, unreliable, and unsafe nature of his character that he showed me.

Coming to terms with the fact that there is no true compensation for the pain and hurt, yet still having to give to his needs (while running on empty, myself) is a jagged pill.

At the core for me, it seems to have more to do with no longer feeling cherished and sacred -- dishonored in such a way that I find it extremely difficult to respect and admire a man who showed so much contempt, abuse, and deceit...and yet, still wishes to be washed of it, to be nurtured, and have his needs met,..if not better than before. I know,...this is my taker,...but, it is now my source of protection.

The husband is the leader; the one who sets the pulse and the course of the relationship. He is the protector and provider -- the landowner. The wife is the caretaker, the gardener, the nurturer, and the receiver; showing love through commitment, fidelity, and respect...if what she is given is honorable and to be respected. The wife is be cherished and to be treated as sacred by the husband; she must feel safe enough with him to open herself to him,...to give to him. I firmly believe that a husband must earn his right to the woman. To win her and keep her, he must be strong, he must be able to protect her, have good fences in the garden, good soil for her to cultivate, so she can keep things growing, fertile, tended, and healthy,... and for her to possess beauty and show a smile on her face in his presence....and admire him.

My H didn't show strength or protection. He allowed the foundations of the garden to deteriorate -- leaving me to fix the fences and plow the soil on my own. He abandoned me and the family. He showed a lack of decent boundaries, cowardice, weakness, disregard,... essentially stealing from us by giving what was ours/mine to a dangerous stranger. He showed extreme, abusive, cruelty with how he went about it -- the lies, the deceit, the emotional manipulations; as if he enjoyed being cruel, selfish, and contemptuous.

He did all of this in the midst of me still cultivating and nurturing --- on my own! What is there for me to respect in that? How was I to feel cherished and sacred in that?

I realize I am going on my own tangent, here,....but this, I believe, it very much how a BW feels when trying to recover from a H's betrayal.

She doesn't feel safe....compelled to relocate the feeling of protection and sacredness she felt with the man she married and find it in a place within herself, instead. I'm not saying it's right,....it's just the compulsion and feelings that come about from a H's betrayal.


BW
m:19y, 2kids
PA/EA, 2 FR's, 2x sep, D on hold
DD#3 AUG 2010
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Daisy,
Not sure what all the acrynoms mean but did you find a way to finally trust him.

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No. Still working on that one.....figuring it will take time and consistency on his part for me to get there.


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...however, I know, there's a good chance that I may never trust him fully again,...and shouldn't (as MB states). Like I said,....the jagged pill; realizing you are not safe, you cannot control another's actions or in-actions,...all you can do is find security in yourself to lean on as a sure thing.....and, somehow, find happiness and acceptance with that. No fun.


BW
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PA/EA, 2 FR's, 2x sep, D on hold
DD#3 AUG 2010
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Hi Hurtcobra, I heard your call on the radio today with Dr Harley and it sounds like you got some great advice. Dr Harley agreed with you that it doesn't sound like an affair. Rather he said she just never became emotionally attached again after the affair.

What did you think about his advice?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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It was great advice and like you knew what was going on in our marriage. I just wish I could get my wife to counseling. Time will tell.

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I meant Dr. Harley knew

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Refreshing!

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Originally Posted By: HurtCobra
It was great advice and like you knew what was going on in our marriage. I just wish I could get my wife to counseling. Time will tell.


Would you be willing to list out the advice Dr. H gave to you?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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