I had an affair 3 years ago that is completely over. I am no longer that person and have changed my life for the better. My wife and I went through counseling after originally sweeping the affair under the rug. We renewed our vows on our 25th anniversary last year. A month ago she told me she is unhappy and can't decide if she wants to stay married. She moved out this past week so she could figure things out. What do I do next?
How long was your adultery? With whom? More than one affair? Is there any sort of lingering contact with OW? Any other serious marriage errors on your part?
Have you placed extraordinary precautions to protect your marriage?
What is the worst and/or most consistent love buster you have yet to get rid of?
WELCOME TO MARRIAGE BUILDERS
Please familiarize yourself with the MB basic concepts.
She found out about the affair right after it happened. It was one weekend 3 years ago and I have not contacted the woman since and don't ever plan to. She is unhappy because she says she cannot forgive me. She moved out and said she has to find herself and decide if she wants to stay married. I try to show her that she can trust me but she doesn't believe anything I say
Why does she feel she can't forgive you? Have you done the necessary things that WARRANT forgiveness? For example, did you answer all her questions truthfully about the affair? Did you change your life in a way that precludes this from happening again?
Have you checked to see if she is having an affair?
I watched it pep, its just common sense isn't it? Even he says the choice is open to forgive or not, as it should be.
Its possible your W carried around for years that it was all her fault, and is finnaly coming to the point of realizing that it wasn't. I am sure you understand this, that it was wrong and all, and that you hurt her deeply, but could not figure out how to fix it. Many people try to put it behind them, and act normal, but inside it still took something out of them, even when they are trying to bear it, for the good of all involved.
I am glad you are here, and interested in helping her heal, and regain her self confidance and trust, in life and herself, whether she comes back or not. Only in that way, can you truly expect this relationship to be healed, when she is whole and healed, and comes back not because she should, but because she wants to.
She sounds like a patient woman, and if you can send her lovebusters, and his needs her needs, and the book surviving an affair, and give her the time she needs to figure it out,(Assuming she hasn't found someone to fufill her needs she was missing), you can allways hope and pray for a chance of full recovery. That will allways be her choice, just as it would be yours if the tables were turned.
She doesn't talk much unless I start talking. I believe I have answered all her questions and yes I have changed. I put God back in my life. I have better relationships with my children and have been open and honest with her on anything in our lives. She works nights as a nurse so communicating and see other is hard. Our MC asked us to keep communicating and gave us a few exercises. That seems to be out the window. I do not believe at all that she is having an affair.
Sadly, your counselor didn't do anything to recover your marriage. What is missing in your marriage is the romantic love. People who are in love don't get separated. And by working a different shift has made it impossible to recover your marriage.
My suggestion would be to do some snooping to find out if she is having an affair. Its doesn't make any sense that she would leave for the reasons she gave.
I'm not yet a year out of the final DD (FR#3) and I can clearly emphasize with your wife. I appreciate the reply ConstantProcess made.
Many days I fall into a horrible slump, unable to get past the emotional wound(s) and hurt that happened between my WH and I last year -- the things he did, the things he said or didn't say -- still grieving about what was lost (so much was lost!). It was so very damaging. I find it nearly impossible to see past the cruel nature of his character that was revealed to me, even in the midst of his guilt driven giving to me or showing he's "doing right" by me,...whatever,...he did those same things in the midst of his cheating. I now have what I would term "a flinching" reaction to his loving,....seeing him as something very dangerous, unsafe, hurtful, and cruel. I hope and pray that someday I can detach from it more and see something else in him,...but it's very hard to do, still.
My suggestion would be to do some snooping to find out if she is having an affair. Its doesn't make any sense that she would leave for the reasons she gave.
I disagree that her stated reasons do not "make sense". I doubt an affair. (snoop around anyway)
I think she might/could leave the marriage this many years after the affair ended because she could not overcome her resentments.
And maybe, just maybe, you are not doing a very good job at "husbanding".
Hurtcobra, the first thing I would do is rule out an affair. It might not be an affair, but if it IS, you need to know.
I am not clear on her reasons why she can't forgive you if you have done everything she has asked. Was there something more she wanted from you? Does she explain?
I am pretty good on watching for an affair and unless I am just missing the boat I don't think she is having an affair. She told me she had held it in too long and she is ready to close this unhappy chapter and not be a victim of an affair. No more sacrificing her happiness, no more settling for less than she deserves.
I am pretty good on watching for an affair and unless I am just missing the boat I don't think she is having an affair. She told me she had held it in too long and she is ready to close this unhappy chapter and not be a victim of an affair. No more sacrificing her happiness, no more settling for less than she deserves.
This rings wrong for me, HC. Can you access her cell phone records to check for multiple calls to numbers you don't recognize? I don't buy her story.
I was able to before and she did not call anyone different. She had calls that I thought were weird and happened to be a new friend (female at work that listened) that I think had something to do with her leaving but am not sure.
Am with Mel and others to snoop about an affair. At the very least you must realize she has decided that you are not fufilling her needs.
Her friend that listened probably does not know how to help her recover, and if not just wants her to be happy, which might be why she has moved out.
But her friend is not a marriage counselor, and we have no idea which way she is steering her. W could trust her more than she trusts you, wouldn't you?
You will need to contact the center and let them help you, and get W to talk to the counselors, and you can be assured, that they are not about,"Marriage at any cost". That is good news HC, because you must realize yourself, that is not the way God designed it. They are about restoring the marraige back to how it is supposed to be, two people willing to share a good life, and loving each other. Something you still need to learn how to do also. So make it clear they are more concerned about her happiness in her life, plus marriage, and that is why they are the most succesful in the country. she will not be forced into anything.
So this is what I suggest. Find out about snooping techniques, keyloggers, and even consider a PI. Find out if their is someone else, just to be sure, so you can know what you are going to have to fight. You stepped in it, and now there might be consequences that you before God must deal with.
If that turns up nothing, then you can also...
Contact her friend, tell her you want to work on your marriage, and that you are seeking good professional help. Feel her out at the same time, if she will even talk to you. Tell her if she is willing and wanting to help that you have a source and would like her to talk to them.
If her friend is hostile towards you, and/or you find out she is seeing someone, get back to us and Dr. Hs coaching center, where you can get more help.
Don't give up sir, Yes you can do everything possible to recover, but now you will have to do some heavy lifting, and it IS the right thing to do.
I would not assume this is an affair. You have a lot of problems I don't post much but you have a big problem in your marriage. You work different shifts and you don't see each other. That makes it very hard.
I could not forgive my XW for sleeping with another man and I ended our marriage. I was not having an affair it was one iron clad requirement she had to meet to stay my wife. And that was she could not sleep with another guy. She knew the rules and she did it anyway. I know she loved me but I could live with myself for accepting that abuse so I ended it. I did divorce her because I could not stay married to her and forgive her. I do forgive her now since it served no purpose to beat her up with it anymore. I would have been a horrible husband with her and I did not want to be that guy.
You have a lot of work to do. It may be too late. It must of been hard on both of you to have different work shifts like that. It is hard to build a close relationship when you had live like that.
You can't build a relationship without spending time together. The one thing I would worry about is if you two have been alone that much it would let a person have enough time alone to develop feelings for another person.
Just my opinion but unless you two can find away to be together more then you have no chance. That would mean you would have to work the same shift and be together the rest of the time.
Thanks for the last posts. I understand completely what I stepped into. I really believe my wife wants to get back together but not willing to admit it. Now that family and friends know they are all surprised that she chose to move out because it is not like her. I got it about her having an affair and will keep my eye on it. I will start to get counseling from Dr. H very soon. My biggest thing is how to react daily. She still wears my ring and we said we would do nothing that would not represent a husband and wife relationship. In other words, no going out with others until we possible get a divorce. Hopefully that doesn't happen.
I wouldn't be so quick to say that your W is having an A either. For some ppl an A is a deal breaker. I have read millions of books, counseling and have been on this site for three years and I still know that I could NEVER sleep with another man and come home to my DH, look him in the eye like it's nothing.
I actually understand what your W is going through. I have almost left my DH at least twenty times since finding out about his A and it has been three years. Gaining back the respect for your spouse is so very hard. All the MB programs in the world sometimes doesn't help you with overcoming that kind of pain/betrayal, especially when you know you weren't neglecting your spouse before the A. Since my DH's A, I have daydreamed about leaving him and still feel so disrepected at times even though he has done everything to make up for his A.
Plan A your W but don't be too quick to assume that she is in an A. Sometimes betrayal is just too much for some ppl. After all, in the Bible it clearly states that adultery is grounds for D.
I wonder if your wife feels like she is in a tainted marriage, and that somehow you got away with having an affair and she is left with a marriage that is now clouded with the debris of that.
While you two received counseling, your wife may be carrying the full effects of the feelings of the affair, because most counseling does not come close to meeting the needs for aftercare in the case of betrayal.
I wonder if your wife carries a great deal of anger at you, because she feels somewhere in there you did not get some sort of punishment for what you did. Often, betrayed spouses feel that the wayward spouse did not offer compensation of some sort. Did your family know of your affair? Did your friends know? If not, she may feel that your friends and family see problems in the marriage and blame HER - or, she may blame herself, and know that YOU were to blame, and she is struggling with all of the issues surrounding this.
At the time of the affair, did your counselor point out what your wife "did" that "caused" you to have the affair? You see, this can lead a betrayed spouse to believe they are to blame for the affair, and lead the wayward to feel justified in having the affair. NOTHING COULD BE MORE WRONG!!!! You were NOT justified, and your wife was NOT to blame. There may have been issues in your marriage, but your choice to seek an affair was yours alone, and had no role in solving the problems, and had no relationship to your wife's behavior whatsoever. That affair belongs to you, period. Many counselors spread the blame for an affair around, but they are incorrect.
This sharing of the blame can have lasting repercussions, which may be what your wife is now facing. She instinctively KNOWS this affair was not her fault, and is still resenting this burden.
Another possibility is that your wife is seeking some sort of compensation from you that you just have not offered.
My thoughts are that she might want you to offer a public confession and apology, but you may want to discuss this with her. Renewing the vows was an attempt to clean up the marriage, but somehow that didn't work for her. She needs a clean start, and somewhere in there she is looking for something untainted. You need to go to her with THAT understanding.
Talk about how stains are washed away in your religion. I would understand that this concept should be one which may ring a bell...
HC, perhaps b/c of the position I am in personally, I tend to agree with the folks who are saying not to be too quick to assume your W is having an A. cobol_girl said it above:
Originally Posted by cobol_girl
For some ppl an A is a deal breaker. {snip}
...Gaining back the respect for your spouse is so very hard. All the MB programs in the world sometimes doesn't help you with overcoming that kind of pain/betrayal.... {snip}
Plan A your W but don't be too quick to assume that she is in an A. Sometimes betrayal is just too much for some ppl. After all, in the Bible it clearly states that adultery is grounds for D.
It's a sobering realization for the repentant and remorseful FWS, to finally let it sink in that sometimes we can do everything under the sun, but it may not be enough to save our marriages. Yes, MB works, but it takes both spouses. You and I are in the difficult - and perhaps atypical - position of being FWS's who desperately want to stay married to our BS's. The more common scenario for these boards is the reverse - the BS who is trying to save the M. In each case, the betrayal is present, but in neither case can restoration occur without both spouses going all in.
Give Plan A a shot - pursue her, woo her, date her. Women want to be pursued and fought for. I won't stop trying to meet my H's needs, but I've reached the point I believe I can accept what he wants, even if that is a D. No matter where our hearts are now, we made the decision to dissolve our M the instant we stepped out with the AP. I wish you the best of luck, HC.
Ok, so go back to the beginning of recovery. You need to go to your wife and tell her that this thing is all WRONG.
1. Your counselor was STUPID. That counselor had the idea that the wife did something to "make" you have an affair, and that is completely messed up thinking. Tell your wife you had an affair because YOU CHOSE IT - because you were self-indulgent, and because you were seeking to have your needs met outside the marriage, and it was a complete and total mistake. You were completely and totally wrong in that, and your wife had absolutely zero blame in this decision.
she needs to hear this
2. Then, discuss when and where you are going to offer your confession to other people. The affair needs to be exposed, so your wife does not feel like she is living in a lie. You need to talk to people about how YOU are responsible for the issues in your marriage
3. You need to talk to your wife about getting some recovery from your affair. Tell her that it is possible - but that the first go-round with counseling was probably not the best route. Tell her you have found the Harleys, and that their track record and plan for marriages is much more solid. That they can help create love again. Ask her if she would consider a few telephone sessions - and that you are attending with or without her, because you want to try to recover the marriage and learn to be a better husband either way.
because if the marriage recovers or not, you absolutely need to figure out what you have done wrong!
I have done all that you have said. I told her it was my fault and never blamed her. I definitely am at fault becasue I did something stupid. I hope to talk to her more about counseling and am willing to do what ever it takes for her to find happiness AND save our marriage. But she has to want to also and she doesn't know if she wants to save the marriage. She just wants to be happy
I am far from having any answers, but I'm curiously watching this thread, because I see the other side,...and feel I may have some insight.
Lately, my struggles have been with this very issue -- unable to see past the cruelty H showed me with the affair and abandonment,....and receive the things he gives me now as trustworthy. All I can see is the revelations of his selfish, needy, inconsiderate, unreliable, and unsafe nature of his character that he showed me.
Coming to terms with the fact that there is no true compensation for the pain and hurt, yet still having to give to his needs (while running on empty, myself) is a jagged pill.
At the core for me, it seems to have more to do with no longer feeling cherished and sacred -- dishonored in such a way that I find it extremely difficult to respect and admire a man who showed so much contempt, abuse, and deceit...and yet, still wishes to be washed of it, to be nurtured, and have his needs met,..if not better than before. I know,...this is my taker,...but, it is now my source of protection.
The husband is the leader; the one who sets the pulse and the course of the relationship. He is the protector and provider -- the landowner. The wife is the caretaker, the gardener, the nurturer, and the receiver; showing love through commitment, fidelity, and respect...if what she is given is honorable and to be respected. The wife is be cherished and to be treated as sacred by the husband; she must feel safe enough with him to open herself to him,...to give to him. I firmly believe that a husband must earn his right to the woman. To win her and keep her, he must be strong, he must be able to protect her, have good fences in the garden, good soil for her to cultivate, so she can keep things growing, fertile, tended, and healthy,... and for her to possess beauty and show a smile on her face in his presence....and admire him.
My H didn't show strength or protection. He allowed the foundations of the garden to deteriorate -- leaving me to fix the fences and plow the soil on my own. He abandoned me and the family. He showed a lack of decent boundaries, cowardice, weakness, disregard,... essentially stealing from us by giving what was ours/mine to a dangerous stranger. He showed extreme, abusive, cruelty with how he went about it -- the lies, the deceit, the emotional manipulations; as if he enjoyed being cruel, selfish, and contemptuous.
He did all of this in the midst of me still cultivating and nurturing --- on my own! What is there for me to respect in that? How was I to feel cherished and sacred in that?
I realize I am going on my own tangent, here,....but this, I believe, it very much how a BW feels when trying to recover from a H's betrayal.
She doesn't feel safe....compelled to relocate the feeling of protection and sacredness she felt with the man she married and find it in a place within herself, instead. I'm not saying it's right,....it's just the compulsion and feelings that come about from a H's betrayal.
...however, I know, there's a good chance that I may never trust him fully again,...and shouldn't (as MB states). Like I said,....the jagged pill; realizing you are not safe, you cannot control another's actions or in-actions,...all you can do is find security in yourself to lean on as a sure thing.....and, somehow, find happiness and acceptance with that. No fun.
Hi Hurtcobra, I heard your call on the radio today with Dr Harley and it sounds like you got some great advice. Dr Harley agreed with you that it doesn't sound like an affair. Rather he said she just never became emotionally attached again after the affair.
Great call-in! I was in need of that discussion from the Harleys. Interesting he mentioned the withdrawal being more severe, more common, for relationships where there was multiple cheating or lying,...I would assume that includes emotional distancing and addiction issues in WH.
I wish they could cover more about how to help the betrayed recover that safe feeling (with or without the wayward depositing into the LB) and re-establishing an intimate and romantic relationship,...without having our taker take over,...protecting us, yet getting in the way at the same time.
Most of the time, I feel incapable of giving Love Bank tokens or receiving LB deposits....just doesn't feel safe, even in the midst of WH's giving.
Hurt, I wanted to say I'm sorry you are going through this and also think you for posting it.
I listened to the radio show and realized that I'm doing this to a point. I have shut down in order to not have to feel the pain of my husbands betrayal. I didnt know I was doing it really just knew I felt better doing it. I now realize that is not the way to go to recover in the long run.
It been a few days since I have been in the discussion. Our family was together last weekend and we had a great time until Monday. My daughter wanted answers from my wife but wife was not talking. I found out my daughter sent her text messages asking questions about why she would not forgive me. Since then she asked that I not call, text, or email her. Our 26th anniversary was Wednesday. This is tough. My wife thinks I am manipulating my daughter when I in fact I told them both (son and daughter)to love and support both of us. I t would be so easy to give up and get a divorce but I don't want that. What do I do next?
BW here, it has been about a year and a half since I discovered my husbands past affairs. We have done and still are doing counseling both individual and marital, he has brought GOD into his life, even converting to be catholic. He bends over backwards to meet all my needs, and even my childrens needs (something he NEVER did before) He is completely transparent, he has installed gps on his phone so he can always show he is where he says he is and where he is supposed to be att all times, and he has even given me passwords to his accounts, and let me watch while he deleted others, and always gives up his phone or computer the second I request to see them. Even with all of these extraordinary measures, I am struggling ALOT. I am trying to save our marriage, but....he is not the man I married, that man died when he had the affairs. No matter what he does now, it doesnt bring back what I thought we had. That is gone FOREVER. I am really struggling with my emotions. I know it hasnt even been 2 years yet, but I can say, I can definatly relate to what your wife is experiencing. I am working very hard to keep us going, however, lately I have had a lot of thoughts of leaving. Bottom line is he is NOT the person I married, and I am not even sure I want to know him. The way he went about manipulating me, now that I can look back with a clear head shows me nothing but a man with no scruples. Then there is the thought that forever is a long time, but life is so short, and suppose he is "GOOD" for a few years then temptation rears his ugly head. What then, I dont want to "waste" my precsious time. I am so very confused. I am sure your wife feels many of these same feelings and has similar thoughts. Trust really is so very important, and so far I am not really sure you can really get it back once you have broken it to peices. Like I said, I am not very far in this journey, I am hoping to find that I am wrong, but right now, I really cant see EVER really trusting my husband FULLY again. I think I will just have to decide if I am willing to stay with him regardless. Just wanted to give you some insight to how we feel is all. Good Luck
HC, I wish I could give you some good advice - I'm a FWW with a BH who wants little to do with me, outside of SF. I listened to you on the radio show and I found it very enlightening - even though the gender roles are reversed, there are a lot of parallels in our situations.
I definitely see that my H and I also failed to create a romantic relationship after he finally learned the whole truth about my A. When Dr. H was talking about your W he could have been talking about my H! I very much agree that if my H (or your W) comes back to the M, then help is needed to build that feeling of intimacy.
I'm not much help, I know! It would definitely be easy to give up, and I feel like I am coming closer and closer to that point myself. I've dialed back my frenetic attempts at need-meeting, myself. The only intimate EN I am allowed to meet is SF, on his schedule. I do what I can to meet the others, but don't know what, if anything, is making it through.
Women like to be pursued, though...and I think Dr. H gave good advice on just being available to her. Think back to how you started dating, what sorts of things did you do then? Usually in the beginning things are casual and low-key. No calls, emails, or texts? Send her a card. Leave flowers on her doorstep. Do little things as you can.
There's nothing either of us can do to force our spouses back into M. It's always the BS's choice whether or not to remain in the M. I think the BS has to see our efforts to change, our willingness to change, and that our changes are permanent. And that takes time.
I think sometimes truly repentant and remorseful FWS's come here and we see the success stories, we like that this site is pro-M, but we forget that the site is not about staying M at all costs. Not every BS can move beyond the depth of betrayal that an A causes. For me, it took me a while to "get" that last part. I saw how our M could be rebuilt, I saw couples who (in my opinion) had gotten through mush "worse" (see how that is *my* opinion as the WS? how can *I* as a WS possibly characterize any sitch as "worse" than our own? That should have been - and still is - my H's call as the BS)...and I believed our M could be recovered as well.
I neglected to take into account my H's feelings. I did a lot of things wrong, besides the obvious A, but I was not good at recovery. Most days I think I've caused too much damage for our M to be salvaged. But I keep plugging away and meeting needs where I can. I'll let him be the one to go to the courthouse and file the D papers, it won't be me.
Thanks to navewife and wulfpack girl. You could not be more correct. I was hurt because she moved out. I am now much stronger and I hope she will see that eventually. Just like wulfpack girl I am learning that is not my decision. I have returned back to my moral ground and will never do something like this ever again. I intend and WILL stay strong for my family. I am optimistic about my marriage but again it is up to my wife
At the core for me, it seems to have more to do with no longer feeling cherished and sacred -- dishonored in such a way that I find it extremely difficult to respect and admire a man who showed so much contempt, abuse, and deceit...and yet, still wishes to be washed of it, to be nurtured, and have his needs met,..if not better than before. I know,...this is my taker,...but, it is now my source of protection.
The husband is the leader; the one who sets the pulse and the course of the relationship. He is the protector and provider -- the landowner. The wife is the caretaker, the gardener, the nurturer, and the receiver; showing love through commitment, fidelity, and respect...if what she is given is honorable and to be respected. The wife is be cherished and to be treated as sacred by the husband; she must feel safe enough with him to open herself to him,...to give to him. I firmly believe that a husband must earn his right to the woman. To win her and keep her, he must be strong, he must be able to protect her, have good fences in the garden, good soil for her to cultivate, so she can keep things growing, fertile, tended, and healthy,... and for her to possess beauty and show a smile on her face in his presence....and admire him.
My H didn't show strength or protection. He allowed the foundations of the garden to deteriorate -- leaving me to fix the fences and plow the soil on my own. He abandoned me and the family. He showed a lack of decent boundaries, cowardice, weakness, disregard,... essentially stealing from us by giving what was ours/mine to a dangerous stranger. He showed extreme, abusive, cruelty with how he went about it -- the lies, the deceit, the emotional manipulations; as if he enjoyed being cruel, selfish, and contemptuous.
He did all of this in the midst of me still cultivating and nurturing --- on my own! What is there for me to respect in that? How was I to feel cherished and sacred in that?
I realize I am going on my own tangent, here,....but this, I believe, it very much how a BW feels when trying to recover from a H's betrayal.
She doesn't feel safe....compelled to relocate the feeling of protection and sacredness she felt with the man she married and find it in a place within herself, instead. I'm not saying it's right,....it's just the compulsion and feelings that come about from a H's betrayal.
These are great areas to go to but I can't get her to even go to any type of counseling. all I can do is wait until she finds a way to not be angry and give us a chance!
I understand. However, (IMO) focusing on HER feelings, HER healing, her need for space, and giving her the understanding and patience she needs from you about it/with it, might be a better approach; verses pulling on her to work on the marriage or feeding your needs right now.
It may have the added benefit of getting her to come around and take an interest in wanting to work on the marriage. I dunno.
**EDIT**
One thing to keep in mind; the healing of the betrayed spouse is imperative, whether the couple stays together or not. There's still a gigantic wound that needs to be healed.
1. Communicate with her. Talk about her life, topics she enjoys, and give her my undivided attention. This also needs to be equal talk. At first it may be me just talking.
2. We are currently emotionally disconnected. There has to be someone who can mediate and help us get back in to a romantic relationship. She is still sitting on the sideline and until both of us are willing to work on this our marriage will not survive.
3. I just received "His needs, Her needs", I will read the part about communicating as the doctor suggested.
4. Dr. Harley and Joyce would like to hear from her.
UPDATE: We are currently not talking at all. She got angry early in the week most likely because I pressed too much. We are talking through a mutual friend. We also put our house on the market because she said she will never come back to this house. So I am just waiting it out to see when we can start communicating again. She said she will contact me but doesn't know when that will be.
1. Communicate with her. Talk about her life, topics she enjoys, and give her my undivided attention. This also needs to be equal talk. At first it may be me just talking.
2. We are currently emotionally disconnected. There has to be someone who can mediate and help us get back in to a romantic relationship. She is still sitting on the sideline and until both of us are willing to work on this our marriage will not survive.
3. I just received "His needs, Her needs", I will read the part about communicating as the doctor suggested.
4. Dr. Harley and Joyce would like to hear from her.
Thank you... It's helpful to have these things in writing.
UPDATE: We are currently not talking at all. She got angry early in the week most likely because I pressed too much. We are talking through a mutual friend. We also put our house on the market because she said she will never come back to this house. So I am just waiting it out to see when we can start communicating again. She said she will contact me but doesn't know when that will be.
HC,
Your wife's comment about never coming back to THIS house leads me to ask, did your affair partner(AP) come in to the home?
I'm also wondering who this AP was, a family friend or ???
You said you have a son and a daughter, how old are your children?
HC, I thought Dr. H's advice to you on the radio show was great. ITA with the #2 point and I believe if my H ever comes back to the M this is what we'll need - whether that's in the form of a MB coach, online program, finding a local MC that believes in MB, etc.
Thought I'd comment on the "never coming back to THIS house" bit.
My AP was never physically in our home either - but I communicated with him from home - either via web chat, FB, or texting. In that way, the POSOM *did* intrude into our home environment. A comment from my H's ENQ from last summer was along the lines of home no longer being a refuge, it wasn't relaxing or pleasant to be here anymore.
And too, think of it this way. We - the FWS - were our BS's home, their refuge...or should have been. The purely physical/material "house" per se is not the problem - because it is the people who live there who make a house a home.
"Home" is where you are supposed to feel safe, protected, valued. "Home" is where you are supposed to feel accepted. We failed to do all those things for our BS's.
So here I sit, trying to maintain a "house" that in truth, is no longer a "home" for me, either. My kids are much younger than yours, HC, but even having them here doesn't truly fill the emptiness. And if our M never recovers, I'll probably end up getting rid of this place down the road because of that.
Anyway, just my random thoughts! Get out HNHN and hit that communication section, HC! I could probably stand to revisit several chapters in that book myself. A refresher never hurts.
AP was a person who came to my work a couple of times on a project but no longer is with the project. I have not contacted her in 3 years nor do I want to. I wish I could turn back time. I hate what I did. My wife and I aren't talking right now. It was my idea to put the house on the market. 1st it was to move to a different state to start fresh but she wouldn't do that. It better to sell the house and start fresh even if we stay in the same town. Agree with what wulffpack_girl said about home being refuge. The same thing happened with me.
HerPapaBear- I probably confused you a little on the house. Another reason I asked her to put on the market because the said she may never come back here. It is too big of a house for 2 people (now 1)
I am at my wits. I don't know how to get her to give me another chance. Any advice on how to deal with separation?
First, you cannot "get" her to do anything. You already know this, I'm sure, but you need to repeat it to yourself.
How to deal with seperation,,,,, One day at a time and if necessary, break the day in to smaller periods of time. You'll be fine if you'll just do the things that need done around the home and at work and develope a daily routine.
What you can do for your marriage..... Read HNHN and then read Love Busters and then read HNHN again.....
What you can do for your family..... Spend time with your kids, whenever possible, and get to know them a little better as adults.
And too, think of it this way. We - the FWS - were our BS's home, their refuge...or should have been. The purely physical/material "house" per se is not the problem - because it is the people who live there who make a house a home.
"Home" is where you are supposed to feel safe, protected, valued. "Home" is where you are supposed to feel accepted. We failed to do all those things for our BS's.
So here I sit, trying to maintain a "house" that in truth, is no longer a "home" for me, either. .
Just part of what you said WPG, that strikes home in the trigger dept with me also.
I moved to this state and city to be closer to my wifes church, and make it mine, and to work in a more conducive area for higher skilled technical people, but mostly, the reason I came here, was to get as far away from her sister and drinkng as possible, and because of my W promises that she would not drink if she was close to the church. Studying Gods word and being able to find how , and this seemed to be a key for her, she could keep falling into drinking, and then expect everyone to forgive her the next day, because thats what Jesus does, was how life was supposed to be led.
HaHA yeah that was a joke, but every time I would plead with her for Gods sake and our childrens sake to get extra help, she would pull the "you don't understand, my Pastor does, you don't know the bible, I have studied it for years, God says I don't have to identify myself with who I was,(Yay, I didn't want to either, and didn't treat you like you were, I get it),I am a new creation, and you don't get it."(Yes I do)
I thought, this church must be able to see that it would take more than blind, "behavior modification" and condemnation for this woman, my two year stint away from her refusing to live with the way she acted had brought her back to God, stopped her bingeing, caused her to connect with solid friends that held her accountable, and gave me hope for us to grow together. If she was hiding from the truth whithin the church, I would fight that also. I would fight anything that was harming her, including any lies that she bought into, or were being propagated by her church. I would fight for my wifes life.
So the main point here, is that I moved here for my wife and family, for their mental and emotional health, and to get away from her sister who was a trigger. If the church was what you needed to stay sober,(yes it did suck that we were not enough), and you wanted to argue that I did not know God enough to be a good husband, well lets go I will fight for your heart and trust, God hates a coward, and this was a battle I was determined to fight, for the peace of my wife and children.
So why do I stay here in this city now? Its been 23 years and there is nothing to stay for. The jobs burned out because I did. Even though I shined in all of them the reason to have them is gone, the dream vanished, I couldn't pull it off, just too much to overcome I guess. But my children are here, and I don't want to leave them, and I can build a life anywhere with the right attitude, and that is what I really lack. Untill I get over myself and get a balanced outlook where I know first, then feel comforted so I can be confident again to live well, and pursue what will make me happy and hold my head up I am laying low and seeking healing. Taking on any challanges besides my own lack of understanding is backseat, and just taking care of myself is the priority, as it should be. Moving somewhere now to me would worry my children, and I want to spend some time with them now also in having fun also. Time is short.
I will have to adjust my attitude, see the silver linings, turn things around for myself, make life what it should be, take control of my thoughts and future. What I need is a vision, a plan that I can work for and be confident in, regaurdless of success or failure, it is the good struggles that life is all about.
Proverbs 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
I need a new dream/vision, one with positive substance that I can believe in. Colledge is a possibility, and I have a lot of interests, but I have to do something financially sound also, and that will all be worked out over time, as long as I work on it realistically and responsibly. But nothing will replace the passion, although misguided, that I had put into my wife and kids and our marriage. I have this site to thank in understanding what went wrong, and being a stable and real place to learn also that I was not alone.
Doing what is right reguardless of the temptations to feel sorry for myself is critical for me. I give credit to my Mom and Dad for being the strong examples they were, even though they divorced, and were not perfect people, they did the best they could in life with the tools they had. They are unique people.
As far as this place I live, the triggers and memories of this city, I guess it might be easy to leave if I had somewhere to go that had promise of doing something better, but being here for the children is the smart thing to do right now, because they are still making thier way, and catching up on the growing they lost while Mom was a wreck, and they were so confused.
I will make this place my home, and deal with the enviroment for what it is, an enviroment, but if I was in the position to leave anyplace for the protection of my familys peace, I would do it again, just like that, nothing is more important to me than that. In the case of infidelity, I would be gone as soon as I could, to put the pain behind us, but correcting the reasons for infidelity are more important, and protecting the marriage, because those things come with you, and make anywhere a home.
Sure is tough not talking. House is up for sale and I am reminded of my lousy choice that led to this. I have totally repented and been transparent. I had read a lot on this site about BS wanting their spouse back and working on it. What about the other side? I am a WH and need advice on how to handle the situation. How long do I hold on for her to make a decision to stay in the marriage or get a divorce. I hope she wants to work on the marriage but it is all up to her. I know it is my fault we are here but need advice and don't need to be reminded of what I did.
Sure is tough not talking. House is up for sale and I am reminded of my lousy choice that led to this. I have totally repented and been transparent. I had read a lot on this site about BS wanting their spouse back and working on it. What about the other side? I am a WH and need advice on how to handle the situation. How long do I hold on for her to make a decision to stay in the marriage or get a divorce. I hope she wants to work on the marriage but it is all up to her. I know it is my fault we are here but need advice and don't need to be reminded of what I did.
You have all the time in the world to wait for her now. What would you like to do? You are a smart man you know you can't run away from this.
If I were you I would be thankful she doesn't believe two wrongs make a right, that is the strongest card you have, that she is "thinking" about it after all this time. I don't think she has a hardened heart towards you, but she needs help to figure this out.
If you read those books, and spend some time in prayer, you will see that "hope maketh not ashamed", and the best thing for you is to show her you will wait untill the end of time for her, and mean it. The best thing FOR YOU.
Take a breath, you are doing all you can right now, there is no quick fix, and free will will allways be in play. She will have to make the decision, just make sure she has the information.
I hate to say this but I understand totally how your wife feels. I too want my happiness back. My husband has and is doing everything he can to show me that he is remorseful, he loves me and really wants me. Unfortunately, I hate to say, I'm at the point where your wife is. I don't want to be a victim anymore, I'm tired of him and the ow dominating my daily life with the thoughts and memories that won't go away. I want to be happy again and I just don't think he can do it for me anymore. I'm tired of obessing over him and the ow. Wow, the way the did me was out of this world. It's almost been a year but there hasn't been one day that has gone by that it hasn't popped in my head. Her body on my husband, his hands on her, the things he told her and she told him. It just makes you sick to your stomach. I'm sorry but I so understand where your wife is coming from and I don't believe she is cheating.
So now my wife doesn't return any email or texts. She is so angry because she thinks I put words in my daughter's mouth. Two days ago we met in a parking lot and she was very angry and called me all kinds of names like arrogant, pathetic, etc... I am none of them and just wonder what it will take for her broken heart to mend
I do empathize, HC. All you can do is be gentle, patient, and, well, more patient...it is not easy. Your kids are older than mine are - unless I'm remembering your thread wrong, I thought your DD was in her 20's? If so, I'd guess she can speak her own mind, but I can see how/why your BW would think you'd put words in her mouth. WS's are manipulative and sneaky, and making the ones we hurt believe we have changed is tough. Sometimes it seems impossible, I know.
Just a thought - have you asked her the question above? Asked her what it would take - maybe not so much for her broken heart to mend - but what, if anything, could you do to help her feel safe enough with you to let you help mend her broken heart?
Look, I know the anger that you get hit with hurts, but as a FWS myself who is also on the receiving end of anger, we can't say that it is undeserved, you know? It's worse when you don't have time to prepare for it, but whenever it comes, try to remain calm and steady. If they didn't care at all, our BS's wouldn't be so angry...I always cringed to face my H's anger, but someone pointed out to me once that it's a slip into the "conflict" state, which is a sight better than the "withdrawal" state. So I try to look at the anger in a positive light (much easier after the storm has passed and I've had some time to regroup and look back at what happened, what he said, what I said, sort of like formulating an action plan for the next time based on what occurred).
Anyway, back to that question - think about how you could ask that, and then start thinking of some gentle, low-key ways to pursue her.
Thanks WPC. It amazing the insight you have. I see where she held all this anger in and it is now coming out. I hope we can save our marriage before divorce. I have asked her about what it would take for her to mend and she doesn't know. I need to learn patience, not smother her, and hope for the best. It seems like the wrong thing to do because I want her to know I am strong and love her. I had hoped she would want to fight for our marriage but right now she is so angry she can't think about that.
