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I will do that later this weekend!

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Great call-in! I was in need of that discussion from the Harleys. Interesting he mentioned the withdrawal being more severe, more common, for relationships where there was multiple cheating or lying,...I would assume that includes emotional distancing and addiction issues in WH.

I wish they could cover more about how to help the betrayed recover that safe feeling (with or without the wayward depositing into the LB) and re-establishing an intimate and romantic relationship,...without having our taker take over,...protecting us, yet getting in the way at the same time.

Most of the time, I feel incapable of giving Love Bank tokens or receiving LB deposits....just doesn't feel safe, even in the midst of WH's giving.


BW
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PA/EA, 2 FR's, 2x sep, D on hold
DD#3 AUG 2010
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Hurt, I wanted to say I'm sorry you are going through this and also think you for posting it.

I listened to the radio show and realized that I'm doing this to a point. I have shut down in order to not have to feel the pain of my husbands betrayal. I didnt know I was doing it really just knew I felt better doing it. I now realize that is not the way to go to recover in the long run.

I'm going to work on it and try to open up more.


Me -BS 40
Him - FWH 34 (dtl)
3 D-Days from 12/25/10 to 01/06/11
NC - 01/09/11
02/20/12 done beating my head on that wall.
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It been a few days since I have been in the discussion. Our family was together last weekend and we had a great time until Monday. My daughter wanted answers from my wife but wife was not talking. I found out my daughter sent her text messages asking questions about why she would not forgive me. Since then she asked that I not call, text, or email her. Our 26th anniversary was Wednesday. This is tough. My wife thinks I am manipulating my daughter when I in fact I told them both (son and daughter)to love and support both of us. I t would be so easy to give up and get a divorce but I don't want that. What do I do next?

Last edited by HurtCobra; 07/22/11 06:01 AM.
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BW here, it has been about a year and a half since I discovered my husbands past affairs. We have done and still are doing counseling both individual and marital, he has brought GOD into his life, even converting to be catholic. He bends over backwards to meet all my needs, and even my childrens needs (something he NEVER did before) He is completely transparent, he has installed gps on his phone so he can always show he is where he says he is and where he is supposed to be att all times, and he has even given me passwords to his accounts, and let me watch while he deleted others, and always gives up his phone or computer the second I request to see them. Even with all of these extraordinary measures, I am struggling ALOT. I am trying to save our marriage, but....he is not the man I married, that man died when he had the affairs. No matter what he does now, it doesnt bring back what I thought we had. That is gone FOREVER. I am really struggling with my emotions. I know it hasnt even been 2 years yet, but I can say, I can definatly relate to what your wife is experiencing. I am working very hard to keep us going, however, lately I have had a lot of thoughts of leaving. Bottom line is he is NOT the person I married, and I am not even sure I want to know him. The way he went about manipulating me, now that I can look back with a clear head shows me nothing but a man with no scruples. Then there is the thought that forever is a long time, but life is so short, and suppose he is "GOOD" for a few years then temptation rears his ugly head. What then, I dont want to "waste" my precsious time. I am so very confused. I am sure your wife feels many of these same feelings and has similar thoughts. Trust really is so very important, and so far I am not really sure you can really get it back once you have broken it to peices. Like I said, I am not very far in this journey, I am hoping to find that I am wrong, but right now, I really cant see EVER really trusting my husband FULLY again. I think I will just have to decide if I am willing to stay with him regardless. Just wanted to give you some insight to how we feel is all. Good Luck


Me: BW 35
Him: WH 36
DD: 7
DS: 1yr. M: 12yrs
DDay: Feb 10 2010
**Always speak your mind.....even if your voice shakes**
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HC, I wish I could give you some good advice - I'm a FWW with a BH who wants little to do with me, outside of SF. I listened to you on the radio show and I found it very enlightening - even though the gender roles are reversed, there are a lot of parallels in our situations.

I definitely see that my H and I also failed to create a romantic relationship after he finally learned the whole truth about my A. When Dr. H was talking about your W he could have been talking about my H! I very much agree that if my H (or your W) comes back to the M, then help is needed to build that feeling of intimacy.

I'm not much help, I know! It would definitely be easy to give up, and I feel like I am coming closer and closer to that point myself. I've dialed back my frenetic attempts at need-meeting, myself. The only intimate EN I am allowed to meet is SF, on his schedule. I do what I can to meet the others, but don't know what, if anything, is making it through.

Women like to be pursued, though...and I think Dr. H gave good advice on just being available to her. Think back to how you started dating, what sorts of things did you do then? Usually in the beginning things are casual and low-key. No calls, emails, or texts? Send her a card. Leave flowers on her doorstep. Do little things as you can.

There's nothing either of us can do to force our spouses back into M. It's always the BS's choice whether or not to remain in the M. I think the BS has to see our efforts to change, our willingness to change, and that our changes are permanent. And that takes time.

I think sometimes truly repentant and remorseful FWS's come here and we see the success stories, we like that this site is pro-M, but we forget that the site is not about staying M at all costs. Not every BS can move beyond the depth of betrayal that an A causes. For me, it took me a while to "get" that last part. I saw how our M could be rebuilt, I saw couples who (in my opinion) had gotten through mush "worse" (see how that is *my* opinion as the WS? how can *I* as a WS possibly characterize any sitch as "worse" than our own? That should have been - and still is - my H's call as the BS)...and I believed our M could be recovered as well.

I neglected to take into account my H's feelings. I did a lot of things wrong, besides the obvious A, but I was not good at recovery. Most days I think I've caused too much damage for our M to be salvaged. But I keep plugging away and meeting needs where I can. I'll let him be the one to go to the courthouse and file the D papers, it won't be me.

Good luck, I'll be following your sitch!


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Thanks to navewife and wulfpack girl. You could not be more correct. I was hurt because she moved out. I am now much stronger and I hope she will see that eventually. Just like wulfpack girl I am learning that is not my decision. I have returned back to my moral ground and will never do something like this ever again. I intend and WILL stay strong for my family. I am optimistic about my marriage but again it is up to my wife

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Originally Posted By: Daisy


At the core for me, it seems to have more to do with no longer feeling cherished and sacred -- dishonored in such a way that I find it extremely difficult to respect and admire a man who showed so much contempt, abuse, and deceit...and yet, still wishes to be washed of it, to be nurtured, and have his needs met,..if not better than before. I know,...this is my taker,...but, it is now my source of protection.

The husband is the leader; the one who sets the pulse and the course of the relationship. He is the protector and provider -- the landowner. The wife is the caretaker, the gardener, the nurturer, and the receiver; showing love through commitment, fidelity, and respect...if what she is given is honorable and to be respected. The wife is be cherished and to be treated as sacred by the husband; she must feel safe enough with him to open herself to him,...to give to him. I firmly believe that a husband must earn his right to the woman. To win her and keep her, he must be strong, he must be able to protect her, have good fences in the garden, good soil for her to cultivate, so she can keep things growing, fertile, tended, and healthy,... and for her to possess beauty and show a smile on her face in his presence....and admire him.

My H didn't show strength or protection. He allowed the foundations of the garden to deteriorate -- leaving me to fix the fences and plow the soil on my own. He abandoned me and the family. He showed a lack of decent boundaries, cowardice, weakness, disregard,... essentially stealing from us by giving what was ours/mine to a dangerous stranger. He showed extreme, abusive, cruelty with how he went about it -- the lies, the deceit, the emotional manipulations; as if he enjoyed being cruel, selfish, and contemptuous.

He did all of this in the midst of me still cultivating and nurturing --- on my own! What is there for me to respect in that? How was I to feel cherished and sacred in that?

I realize I am going on my own tangent, here,....but this, I believe, it very much how a BW feels when trying to recover from a H's betrayal.

She doesn't feel safe....compelled to relocate the feeling of protection and sacredness she felt with the man she married and find it in a place within herself, instead. I'm not saying it's right,....it's just the compulsion and feelings that come about from a H's betrayal.


This is EXCELLENT !

Now a NOTABLE POST.

Last edited by Pepperband; 07/22/11 10:52 AM.
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You have received some really great advice. Great stuff for me, as well. Thank you!

**EDIT**

Last edited by Fireproof; 07/22/11 06:21 PM. Reason: TOS removing non MB material

BW
m:19y, 2kids
PA/EA, 2 FR's, 2x sep, D on hold
DD#3 AUG 2010
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Wow! Thanks, pepperband. Me?-- notable? I'm glad, but I was just ranting in one of my usual moods. I guess, I knew there was a reason I can back.


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PA/EA, 2 FR's, 2x sep, D on hold
DD#3 AUG 2010
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These are great areas to go to but I can't get her to even go to any type of counseling. all I can do is wait until she finds a way to not be angry and give us a chance!

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I understand. However, (IMO) focusing on HER feelings, HER healing, her need for space, and giving her the understanding and patience she needs from you about it/with it, might be a better approach; verses pulling on her to work on the marriage or feeding your needs right now.

It may have the added benefit of getting her to come around and take an interest in wanting to work on the marriage. I dunno.

**EDIT**

One thing to keep in mind; the healing of the betrayed spouse is imperative, whether the couple stays together or not. There's still a gigantic wound that needs to be healed.

Last edited by Fireproof; 07/22/11 06:22 PM. Reason: TOS

BW
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Great points Daisy. Thanks for the advice

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HC,

You were going to write out the advice Dr. Harley gave you.... toe tap





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Sorry this too so long

Dr. Harley told me a few things

1. Communicate with her. Talk about her life, topics she enjoys, and give her my undivided attention. This also needs to be equal talk. At first it may be me just talking.

2. We are currently emotionally disconnected. There has to be someone who can mediate and help us get back in to a romantic relationship. She is still sitting on the sideline and until both of us are willing to work on this our marriage will not survive.

3. I just received "His needs, Her needs", I will read the part about communicating as the doctor suggested.

4. Dr. Harley and Joyce would like to hear from her.


UPDATE:
We are currently not talking at all. She got angry early in the week most likely because I pressed too much. We are talking through a mutual friend. We also put our house on the market because she said she will never come back to this house. So I am just waiting it out to see when we can start communicating again. She said she will contact me but doesn't know when that will be.

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Originally Posted By: HurtCobra
Sorry this too so long

Dr. Harley told me a few things

1. Communicate with her. Talk about her life, topics she enjoys, and give her my undivided attention. This also needs to be equal talk. At first it may be me just talking.

2. We are currently emotionally disconnected. There has to be someone who can mediate and help us get back in to a romantic relationship. She is still sitting on the sideline and until both of us are willing to work on this our marriage will not survive.

3. I just received "His needs, Her needs", I will read the part about communicating as the doctor suggested.

4. Dr. Harley and Joyce would like to hear from her.




Thank you... It's helpful to have these things in writing.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted By: HurtCobra

UPDATE:
We are currently not talking at all. She got angry early in the week most likely because I pressed too much. We are talking through a mutual friend. We also put our house on the market because she said she will never come back to this house. So I am just waiting it out to see when we can start communicating again. She said she will contact me but doesn't know when that will be.


HC,

Your wife's comment about never coming back to THIS house leads me to ask, did your affair partner(AP) come in to the home?

I'm also wondering who this AP was, a family friend or ???

You said you have a son and a daughter, how old are your children?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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AP was not in the house and is not a friend of the family. Children are 24 and 23

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HC, I thought Dr. H's advice to you on the radio show was great. ITA with the #2 point and I believe if my H ever comes back to the M this is what we'll need - whether that's in the form of a MB coach, online program, finding a local MC that believes in MB, etc.

Thought I'd comment on the "never coming back to THIS house" bit.

My AP was never physically in our home either - but I communicated with him from home - either via web chat, FB, or texting. In that way, the POSOM *did* intrude into our home environment. A comment from my H's ENQ from last summer was along the lines of home no longer being a refuge, it wasn't relaxing or pleasant to be here anymore.

And too, think of it this way. We - the FWS - were our BS's home, their refuge...or should have been. The purely physical/material "house" per se is not the problem - because it is the people who live there who make a house a home.

"Home" is where you are supposed to feel safe, protected, valued. "Home" is where you are supposed to feel accepted. We failed to do all those things for our BS's.

So here I sit, trying to maintain a "house" that in truth, is no longer a "home" for me, either. My kids are much younger than yours, HC, but even having them here doesn't truly fill the emptiness. And if our M never recovers, I'll probably end up getting rid of this place down the road because of that.

Anyway, just my random thoughts! Get out HNHN and hit that communication section, HC! I could probably stand to revisit several chapters in that book myself. A refresher never hurts.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Originally Posted By: HurtCobra
AP was not in the house and is not a friend of the family.



So who was this AP, a co-worker, an old fling, a hooker?

Has your wife communicated why she wants the house sold and is not going to return it?





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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