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Eluna, the convo you and jafo had last night sounds like a definite step in the right direction! hurray Hopefully he too sees how his meeting that need of yours (C) helped you to enthusiastically meet a need of his (SF). Awesome!

I'll definitely check out that article you posted.


FWW

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Well this weekend was a bust as far as convo went. Really had no real UA time on Sunday. Why? Because H had a kidney stone attack and spent the entire day in physical agony. Finally around midnight he consented to going to the hospital to get something to relieve the pain.

I was not there to take care of him the way I wanted to be, because I was back and forth between him and DS.

Currently we are all exhausted from lack of sleep and stress. Hoping we get rest tonight together.


Me - BS
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Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
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Recovery may not be an option. Seriously looking a plan B/D
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H tried to step up some this weekend. Got a letter about our mailbox garden needing some maintenance on Saturday. The temperature was about 102 degrees at the time.

H assured me that he would take care of it when it cooled off, knowing that I would want to get it done immediately. I refused to allow him to do it. I realized I did not trust he would actually get around to doing it.

During the time this happened, I had been waiting 3 weeks for H to finish power washing the house.


I do not mind a day or so of procrastination, as things happen and you do not always feel like doing the small things.

To H these are little annoyances that can be done whenever. He will tell me that he will take care of something on the honey-do list one week, two months later it will be partially done but not complete. These are little things, but if he can not do these small things, how can I believe that he will do the big things?

Can he not see that even these small things are ways to build trust, or show me that he is going to do the things he says? Am I wrong in feeling like these small things are important to prove he will do what he says?


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Right now it seems as if H is trying to work on things. I got home about an hour late last night, after running errands. When I got there H came out to meet me, I noticed he was wearing gloves so I asked what was up. Turns out he had taken the dryer apart and had been cleaning out the lint trap (not the lint filter).

He had decided to do this as it was something I had mentioned several months back needed to be done. I don't even remember talking about that, except in passing.

H seems to be trying to work on keeping his word on the small stuff right now. I am hesitant to believe much though, because in the past he has said he would do something and then stop after a few weeks.

I want to believe that he is changing. But there is so much history of him quitting after a small amount of time, that I am terrified it is the same WH trying to pull a fast one on me.


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.....he had taken the dryer apart and had been cleaning out the lint trap...decided to do this as it was something I had mentioned several months back needed to be done

Ok, all to the good, right?

I am hesitant to believe much...he has said he would do something and then stop after a few weeks...there is so much history of him quitting after a small amount of time,

Look, we can train gerbils to solve quadratic equations with the right reward system, and you're not sure how to encourage your husband's efforts in these matters? Seriously, did you thank him? Did you offer to help him put away the tools, or clean up the work area? Did you give him a cup of coffee, or a cool drink?

Whatever you could have done would probably have taken less time and trouble than writing about it here. Do that, on a consistent basis, and he'll probably not fade into bad habits so readily.

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*speaking to the air*

If these "little annoyances" are coming in the form of Selfish Demands, are being bolstered by Selfish Demands and Disrespectful Judgements... the house will get pressure washed at the cost of romantic love in the marriage.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Ok I think I may have given the wrong impression here. I am glad H is stepping up on the household stuff, but that is not the issue.

My biggest issue is not the housework. I could care less if I do it or he does. My issue is H keeping his word and doing what he says he will do. If H says he will do something this weekend, and he puts it off for three weeks, then it hurts because he did not keep his word. And for me that equates to lying.

Yes, I have told him this. The housework is only an annoyance, because I feel like he is lying to me when he fails to do what he says he will do.

I have thanked him for the things he has done. My hesitation has nothing at all to do with "will he clean the house, or wash the house, ect." It has to do with, is this another thing he will lie to me about.

If H can not keep his word with small stuff, how is he ever going to be able to earn my trust back? How does one trust a wayward who can not keep their word until they wayward begins keeping their word in everything?




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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
*speaking to the air*

If these "little annoyances" are coming in the form of Selfish Demands, are being bolstered by Selfish Demands and Disrespectful Judgements... the house will get pressure washed at the cost of romantic love in the marriage.

HHH,

You seem to have a thing for DJ. The problem is you tend to come into my thread being judgmental.

In my thread post that you referenced, I said nothing to demand my husband do anything. I did not ask him to do anything. I told him I was going to take care of the issue.

HHH, you are also continuing to show a lack of respect by purposefully ignoring my request to not post in my thread any further.

I don't know or care, if you are trying to project your own issues here. What I do know, is that during my initial dealings with you, I lost respect for you and your opinion. And your continued DJ in my thread has re-enforced my opinion of your posts.

So honestly, why in the world would I bother to listen to someone whom I have not connection or respect for? Especially when they are showing me the exact behavior they are accusing me of?




Me - BS
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Discovery 3/26/10
NC letter mailed 5/27/10
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Originally Posted by ElunaInNC
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
*speaking to the air*

If these "little annoyances" are coming in the form of Selfish Demands, are being bolstered by Selfish Demands and Disrespectful Judgements... the house will get pressure washed at the cost of romantic love in the marriage.

HHH,

You seem to have a thing for DJ. The problem is you tend to come into my thread being judgmental.

In my thread post that you referenced, I said nothing to demand my husband do anything. I did not ask him to do anything. I told him I was going to take care of the issue.

HHH, you are also continuing to show a lack of respect by purposefully ignoring my request to not post in my thread any further.

I don't know or care, if you are trying to project your own issues here. What I do know, is that during my initial dealings with you, I lost respect for you and your opinion. And your continued DJ in my thread has re-enforced my opinion of your posts.

So honestly, why in the world would I bother to listen to someone whom I have not connection or respect for? Especially when they are showing me the exact behavior they are accusing me of?

I thought you had HHH on ignore? Spelling out to someone how little their opinion means to you is NOT the same thing as ignoring them. Ignoring is not reading, not responding. Especially the not responding part.

It's clear that HHH's posts really get under your skin (your irritation really comes through in your posts to HHH). Have you asked yourself why it bothers you so much that an anonymous internet stranger may have totally misunderstood you and your situation?

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My initial confrontation with HHH pissed me off. It left me feeling that there was no way to fix my marriage.

His posts came across telling me that by asking my husband to do the things that made me happy, I was being selfish and disrespectful. By asking my husband to be honest with me and keep his word, I was being judgmental and selfish.

I felt like I was being told that there was no way to fix my marriage and I should just shut up and go away.

Yesterday was the first post of his I read, since I put him on ignore. Again he brought up the same opinion. So I went back and re-read what I wrote. I said nothing about telling my husband what to do. Only telling him what I was going to do.

After my initial dealing with HHH, I almost went a head a filed for divorce. Why, because thanks to his posts, I felt no hope of recovery. I felt he was telling me to sit back and take however H wanted to act otherwise I was demonstrating SD and DJ. His post yesterday said the same thing to me. I don't like being told to give up on my marriage.

Posts like that are not helpful. They do not give any real advice to fixing a situation. They only accuse. I am here asking for help to fix thing in our marriage. His posts are not helpful, they are destructive for me and H.


Anymore questions?

And yes I know I have not changed my sig away from what it currently says.

Last edited by ElunaInNC; 08/05/11 09:04 AM.

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How does one trust a wayward who can not keep their word until the wayward begins keeping their word in everything?

Slowly. Gradually.

You went from a marriage with problems, and immediately want to proceed to the perfect union, with 100% commitment to every supposed agreement........NOW!

How about looking for incremental improvements, noting them overtly; watching for failures, addressing them jointly; and fully encouraging both partners to understand that POJA does not mean that everything you want, he should agree to, the way men have been trained to do to avoid conflict. (Yeah, the contrapositive happens as well, but that is outside this discussion, right?)

And, gently, I would point out that if, instead of being pleased when hubby does "come through", you are investing emotional effort in worrying about when will be the next time he fails,......well, you will likely never be content, nor satisfied with his achievements.

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
How does one trust a wayward who can not keep their word until the wayward begins keeping their word in everything?

Slowly. Gradually.

You went from a marriage with problems, and immediately want to proceed to the perfect union, with 100% commitment to every supposed agreement........NOW!

How about looking for incremental improvements, noting them overtly; watching for failures, addressing them jointly; and fully encouraging both partners to understand that POJA does not mean that everything you want, he should agree to, the way men have been trained to do to avoid conflict. (Yeah, the contrapositive happens as well, but that is outside this discussion, right?)

And, gently, I would point out that if, instead of being pleased when hubby does "come through", you are investing emotional effort in worrying about when will be the next time he fails,......well, you will likely never be content, nor satisfied with his achievements.

I am not expecting him to do everything right now, although I must admit my text does sound that way.

What I am asking of H right now is this.
1. If YOU say you are going to do something, go ahead and get it done. Don't volunteer to do something, where you are not ready or willing to do. (Unless it is something like a "can you help me in this moment" task, I no longer really ask H to do anything around the house, yard, ect.)

2. (This is the exception) Come up with an action plan to begin earning my trust back. Set down a list of personal Honey-dos, things H is willing to do himself for one week. Show me the list, so I know what I am looking for. Then do it.


I am watching for success, and for failure. But I am only asking for one week at a time right now. I am not asking for anything beyond that week.

I guess I figure if H has a smaller time frame to worry about, then it will be easier for him to re-train himself in how to keep his word to me.

I want more than anything to be able to trust H. I know I will never be able to trust him 100% again, but I would like to be able to trust that when he says he is going to go to the store, that is where he is going.

And while, to my knowledge, he has been going only to the places he says. I want to be able to believe that without a question in the back of my mind every time. To me his in-ability to keep his word on the small things is a symptom of the bigger issue. By watching for improvements in H keeping his word on the small things, I am watching to see if the bigger issue with honesty is beginning to resolve.


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H asked me to go with him to his IC. The IC had requested my presence to better understand our dynamic and how I view H's behaviors. He wanted to see both sides of the story.

This was H's second appointment with the IC since the porn re-lapse. During the first appointment H said he forgot to mention that he had a relapse. This time H told him that he had a relapse. And we did discuss it. The IC asked H to make an agreement with me, that if he should relapse again, he will tell me within 24 hours. I felt very comfortable with that.

The IC is trying to help H create better communication and work lack of openness and honesty. The IC has asked that H and I both return next week.



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Eluna, sounds like the IC is a positive development.

I think - even thought I am the FWS - I can understand what you mean about looking for jafo's consistency with the smaller things. Successful recovery is all about consistency in actions. You can't believe change is permanent until it's demonstrated consistently. And if you say you need something, or ask jafo to do something, he should follow through. Heck, he should jump on that MOFO and get it done. The onus is on him to prove that he has changed/is capable of change/is WILLING to change.


FWW

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First section of the 8/15/11 broadcast would be applicable to the "honey-do list" aspect of this recovery.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Hello all,

I know it has been a while. I thought I would drop in for an update.

The IC fell through. We scheduled to return twice after the last post. The IC always lost our appointment. Seriously, he forgot we were coming. I gave up on IC at that point.

DH and I are still together. V-day was amazing. But since then things have gotten rocky. Mainly triggers for me; seeing several couples that I thought were strong falling apart. Also one of his HS friends posted on Facebook asking if he was planning on attending their upcoming 20 year reunion. He replied that he was not. Mainly not going because POSOW may be there.

Speaking of.. I found out two months ago that she has moved out of our area. She is in a town about an hour away. Damn that was a relief to find out!

As for me, I am still healing. Still have good days, and bad days. I did find out some health news back in February, and in a strange way it has helped me accept and forgive more of the A.

The A began shortly after the birth of our son. So when I was always tired, I just chalked it up to being a new mom. I was always tired and had little energy for anything other than DS (This is a big part of where I lost DH. DH thought my tiredness was equal to avoiding him because I was not interested in him any longer).

My symptoms got worse after D-day. I figured at that time, I was suffering from depression, and that with caring for a toddler was just taking too much out of me. Went to the DR, and after a triglycerides, cholesterol test, I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome and told to drop the carbs and some weight.

After three months on a low carb, I was told I was cured. But the tiredness, while it had slowed was getting worse. This winter it had gotten so bad, and I was a pure B@#$% because I was so tired, that I went back to the DR looking for answers. I had begun having trouble sleeping, waking for days at a time with dark circles under my eye, barely able to function. Sometimes not even able to function. I was living in a brain fog (not the A fog) and had trouble putting two thoughts together.

So I went back to the DR. and found out that I have a genetic B-12 anemia. There is no telling exactly when it began, but tracing my symptoms, I would suspect that my pregnancy triggered it.

Well now I am on the mend, although I will have to take b-12 shots for the rest of my life. But I actually have energy. And a brighter outlook than I have for years. DH actually told me that I am acting like the women he fell in love with again. And he has been there with me every step of the way.

So how did it help me deal with the A? I realized that since this anemia probably began before the A, I was sick during it. And the POSOW was not able to steal a man from a sick woman. That realization has helped me place her into the junk pile where POSOW belongs, rather than the competition pile where I had been viewing her.

Slowly, but surely life is getting better. And I am mending, from both the A and the anemia.


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Eula,

Thanks for stopping by and giving the update. I am glad you found what was wrong medically and are getting better.

Do you and your H follow MB principles - UA time, avoiding lovebusters, meeting each other's most important ENs?


AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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Armymama,

We were for a while after D-day, but as the exhaustion got worse that became harder. I would literally get home for work and struggle to stay awake. Normally I was knocked out before our son even went to bed, sometimes as early as 6pm in the evening. frown It sucked!

I had felt horrible the last several months before my Dx that I was letting H down. I spent a lot of time crying because I was so scared this would break us.

Since I began taking my shots, it is getting easier. I have some energy and we are working as a team to get life back on track. Slowly we are getting back on the wagon with MB. In fact last week we began discussions again as to what ENs need the most work right now.


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Eluna,

Wow, glad you are getting better. For me, depression made me additionally tired. And this past winter was a miserable one. It was either raining or zero outside.

I think one of THE absolute best things to do is to sit down for a half hour or so once a week and really plan out UA time. Plan 15-20 hours of fun time together. In many cases, that can meet the four top critical emotional needs - affection, conversation, recreation and sexual fulfillment. I think it was this week on the radio show when Dr. Harley said it is good when all four needs are met in the same time block of UA. When you do this, it doesn't feel like work (as long as there is no lovebusting going on).

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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