Does anyone put stock in the five stages of grieving?

1) Denial, 2) anger, 3) bargaining, 4) depression, 5) acceptance?

1)What BS hasnt tried to deny obvious signs? I did.
2)My taker nearly did some pretty angry stuff when that stage was over!
3)As for bargaining Im unsure. What Ive read says you try to come up with plots to regain your loss or bargain with god. I did speak to god which is very unusual for me. I also think the 'plans' of MB are a sort of bargaining. At first the BS think of the plans as a way to purely 'get back' what they have lost - not as a way to heal themselves.
4) this stage was unmistakable.

Looking back at my thread I think I may have gone through these stages.

It's a bit soon to say that I am in acceptance, only been a couple of days since I've felt 'zen' again. I still feel sad about everything and think it stinks, but I balance that with how better things will definitely be no matter what.

However I have been here before and it was just the up part of the rollercoaster.

Yes, we do all go through the stages of grief when this happens, especially when we are in Plan B.

You feel the ups and downs, and you know that there is probably going to be another down at some point. It takes time, but when more time goes on, there will be more time before you get a down turn of the roller coaster.

You're doing GREAT and you should be super proud of yourself. It's not easy to stay dark, but you are managing and it is paying off. Keep it up.

Yes grief
Betrayal seems to be worse than the death of a loved one, but it still is loss either way
Having had both pretty close together I would say betrayal is worse

Counselors for a long time have said to treat the loss of a lover like a death, because they are gone from your life. In this case you are removing the poison that the diseased is a carrier of by doing a plan B

Btw
I have heard the stages come for us all at different times and not in a specific order either
Some people have some that happen so fast they think they missed them completly
It's good to remember these stages are about dealing with loss
Don't set a rule of grieving and watch for the stages some losses are handled better than others

So I heard a bunch more stuff about him today when I took his mail around to his relatives.

I can't repeat any of it, because I just sort of squinted my brain until all I could hear was WAH WAH WAH like Charlie Brown's teacher.

I dont CARE where he lives, how happy/unhappy - anything. The only thing I need to know is that he hasnt agreed N/C, or to jump through any hoops, etc, so he's persona non grata.

I had told her I wasnt talking about him but she went on and on - do I need a sandwich board and a bell?

OMG Indie, you are AMAZING. I continue to see posts from you and am simple in awe. Keep up the great work. You 'get" this.

I feel like I do. I just wish I had 'got' it earlier.

Oh no wait, I dont mean me - I mean softlad....!

I saw the post you made about the two space cases before you deleted it Indie. It truly was insightful. The comment about "using new words" was classic in all kinds of areas of life is it not?

I remember the movie, "As good as it gets", and when Nicholson,(Udall), was talking to his beat up niehbor Greg Caneer, about his problem with Helen Hunt and the relationship he was trying to have with her. Greg Caneer is identifing with the feelings, and Udall says, "Geez, I'm drowning here and your describing the water!. I thought you people were suppossed to be sensitive or something!"

Yeah talk is cheap, and actions speak louder that words.

Hope you are doing well, and I see that you are not fooled very long by the words slung around by liers, and have a good head on your shoulders. I look forward to hearing great things with you.

God Bless

Thanks. I thought it was pretty good too, just changed my mind about it!

Sometimes people do hang on to words and believe what they want to for a while. I know I did.

I am feeling stronger. My energy is still quite low, so I'm not getting much done. I think about him a lot. I think it is fair to say though that I dont let those thoughts wander or confuse me. I always come back to 'he knows what he needs to do' 'that is what love is' and that 'I deserve REAL love'.

When I married it was to a man, not a boy. A man who would walk over hot coals for me, would defend me to anybody, would stand between me and any pain.

I never asked him to prove these things to me, they were not there to be done. They are now. He either does them or he's gone.

My love may well run out long before he decides that I am more important then his being stubborn. His call.

Someone asked me the other day if I now thought 22 was too young to get married. No I dont think so. I had the same views on marriage that day that I do today. I was willling to go the extra mile, do anything that the future required of me for my husband.

Maybe this is naive but I believe he was prepared to do those things too. He isnt now though and that is unacceptable.

I've made a pledge to myself from now to get into bed at midnight from here on, so I will bid you all a sweet goodnight.

Glad you are focusing on getting more sleep. I know that when I am tired, all things get to me more.

I still have times when I think about my WH and my sitch but it is getting further apart and it is easier for me to get back on track.

Boy I am jealous of you Indie, because when I pulled the "support the alcoholic" plug from my wife a long time ago, boy was that mean of me, but I called the Bull like it was, and ignored the pleas, accusations, and just calmly said, "You made your choices, God will help you, You have the tools and do not respect me enough to be honest even with yourself nevermind me, praying for you." and then would just hang up.

Of course these were awful times, and staying away from her was all I could do to get my life back on track, for myself and my children I wanted to take away from her ASAP. Yes there would be times after contact I would have to meditate and pray, do some martial arts katas, and calm down my racing mind, but I really didn't have any support, no church, no groups,(Alanon but they don't help with seperations really), just my Mom who would listen, but I really could not take to much of her time, as you probably guessed, I was a talker. So meditation and positive thinking making a plan and actual physical activity was all I had.

I felt pretty much alone, and this woman who spoke so eloquently of God, quoted scripture, had a dream and vision to have a home where children could come to heal and be loved, as I also wanted to do with the latter part of my life, just would not stop her drastic independent behavior and drinking, basically because she didn't want to.

I had done what needed to be done for years treating my diabetetes, started to get fit, and enjoy the simple things in life. Just getting away from the drama worked wonders in my soul. All that was left was to save the children, and pray she would get better, so she could maybe be some kind of mother to them in the future. My KISA role she gave me,(Thats allways crap of the highest degree),was just what I thought it was, a way to blame someone else if she fell. We were done, fini, there was no way to fix this, and I made the decision to stay alive myself and away from the pit she was dragging us down in.

It was great, and whithin a month I knew I was right to leave the relationship, but I was still in a damaged state, and trying to fix myself, my finances, and get back on track with my plan to support my son from the first marriage, get a solid place of residence so he could come out and visit,(he was 8 ATT, and I needed to be able to have him come and stay with me for periods of time before he was 12)and find a career that I fit in. I had the IQ, the work ethic, and everybody who knew me saw big things for the future, I had allready accomplished a lot more than people my age had, and overcome some stupid mistakes at a young age. I had a strict and defined plan and depended on my health and determination and discipline to deal correctly with the most important responsibility I had, the stablility and emotional health of my children.

After all, that was what kept me in my first marriage way past the point when it broke down because of honesty, and got me into the next one, the lives of the innocent children I/we had created. It was a blessing to have them, and allways has been to me a big responsibility that shows rewards beyond what we can even understand as parents, there was nothing more important. There was no excuse to not care for them, and people had to care for themselves first.

But unfortunatly I was 29 years old, and still had some ideas that I should be dating, that that would help me overcome the past lost, get my confidence back, relate to other adult women who from my experience during the 70s and 80s, seemed to have this idea beat about sex and commitment. My experiences taught me that not only do women in the workplace now have sex with whomever they want, if you didn't play that game, now you were either Gay or had some social problem. Yes it was the "Sexual 70s", "The me generation", and I wondered, was this some kind of problem I had? Shouldn't I be having 1 night stands like everybody else seemed to be? Why couldn't I, well, maybe that is why I got screwed over this time, I was just,"too nice" of a guy. I made it a point to change that, because the world isn't nice. As a matter of fact my desire to help my WW feel safe from the world she grew up in, that she said she wanted to escape so badly from, greatly contradicted her alcoholic behavior. If I had trusted my instints at the beginning, maybe I would not have been drawn in.

Nope, it was time to be a harder man, and not care so much, the damage was taking its toll on my character, and I did not see it. Sex which was supposed to be sacred between a man and a woman to create life, was again turned into a social skill by screwwed up people, and it was a game I would have to learn how to play. That attitude alone ruined my chances to heal my wife when I got back together with her two years later, because I tried to live that way, slept with a girl who heard my story and fell in love with me, but would not marry after seeing what I was really all about then. God I wish I had MB then to support me in that time, but still I do not use that as an excuse for my selfish behavior. The girl after 1 1/2 years finnally dumped me because I was a mess, and she saw I was using her. Good for her.

The shock of what I had become, and the rebound from the affair, brought me to my knees. The guilt that drove me most of my life to be more than the average idiot, and man with a conscience, putting up with more than I had to, kind and considerate, came back full force. I saw what I had done, had became cruel and useing, just because I wanted control and did not want to be hurt, and wanted my fair share. It is something that can and does happen to people in life, they harden thier heart. I did it purposly.

I fell onto Gods grace, and my WW had been on her knees for over a year, praying I would return to the marriage. In my weakened state I did not have the conviction to press her towards AA, therapy I knew she allways needed, and her addiction had only gone deep underground. She had learned a lot, changed a lot, and I knew that anyone could change if they really wanted to be honest and do the work, so for the childrens sake and the hope that we would be healed, we got back together. Many of the tools used in MB were used for healing, but because the denial was so strong in the alcoholism, and it took so much away from each of us that was never dealt with completly right, in two years, our recovery started slipping away because she fell again.

There is a counsellor for AA who is also a Christian brother of mine who says, "With God and the twelve steps you can do anything". Its true, you need to be on your knees and looking up at the powerful Father in heaven, both, and those twelve steps are good for any form of addiction in life. Just like MB can help everybody in the integrity of relationships everywhere.

No real reason why I posted this to you speciffically. Possibly because you seem to get the BullChit people tend to be full of, and the fantasies they are willing to fall for. I am sure you are not in danger of a rebound relationship this soon, and I am not in any kind of distress needing advice, but I allways listen to others anyway, heck thats why I am here, to connect to people. Sometimes just putting things down on paper helps me clarify my story, and because I am NOT afraid of being human and know that I have made mistakes, I share a lot on this site. You never know where you might help.

Take good care of yourself we all appreciate you.

I know, there are no shortcuts unfortunately. There must be a good reason for this..!

Thanks CP

When you find it, lemme know, k? HEHEHE

I will tell you that my life is more at peace now than it has been in a LONNNGGG time. When I am around people who have drama in their lives, I want to RUN. Also, small things just don't seem to bother me in the same way anymore.

Stay strong. You are growing so much and I am proud of you.

Threw myself a bit of a pity party earlier (ok, im still doing it). No matter how hard I try the next few months arent going to be much fun. I didnt do anything to deserve that. I know bad things happen to people all the time that they dont deserve, but the person closest to me in the world DECIDED to do this, then decided to lie about it, then decided to do it some more.

Then he invented marriage problems that were 'my' fault. He then moved on to insult me, gaslight me, manipulate me to work harder on the marriage so I wouldnt leave. When finally caught with his pants down, he decides to deny it all and run round town protecting HER reputation by calling me a liar.

I wouldn't do even one of those things to someone I hated with all my soul.

I really would rather he had hit me.

Ok, so he may not be having much fun in Plan B either. I may have done a good exposure which has seen them both writhing in shame.

That doesnt alleviate my pain. What will? Time I have, but I begrudge it. I feel like this time is mine, I worked hard in the run up to this time, meaning to enjoy it. Enjoy my tenth wedding anniversary next week and maybe getting to the point where we getting along better. Starting a family even.

I put on hold my plans to support his grief and baffling behaviour. He stole my time. Now it belongs to grieving and there doesnt seem to be much to do about that.

Just booked a massage and a meal at my favourite restaurant for the anniversary. I have some plans coming up. I dont know.

More ranting -

If he had told me truthfully the marriage was not for him and why - if we had tried to do SOMETHING about it, before the marriage ended I could handle it better.

I'm never going to have anything like a closure conversation with him because he's just a selfish wayward that you cant talk to.

I too sometimes wish that I knew all of the truth, that I would be able to get all of the info so I would KNOW what was the truth of my marriage, my life. He stole that away from me, and I let it happen.

But, then, I need to move on. I need to get past this anger, hurt and resentment, and I have to let it go. I may probably never know everything. And I have to be okay with that. It's like I was reading a book, and I found out that there were 50 pages missing smack dab in the middle, and they are gone, never to return, how can I know the full story? I can't. And I am okay with that now(mostly ).

Sleeping better yet? How about eating?

I know that your anniversary is going to suck this year. It is a fact, but it is how you get over that hump that will help you. Allow yourself a pity party about it, and then get on with your healing. You are gonna feel sad, and angry, and you should let that happen, so you can get past it.

Wayturds suck azz.

If I knew she was using the word of God to appear a victim and only meant it when it was comfortable I would have not bought the package either
We will al just have get over it and rise above

"I'm never going to have anything like a closure conversation with him because he's just a selfish wayward that you cant talk to."


So sorry, Indie, but per above? You will, but it'll be wasted on your WH as things stand today. Come here for closure, and to help with going through the grief stages (Yes, they are very, very real.) You have found comfort here in absence of your WH? No substitute, I know.

Also, you are rocking with advice and insight for others...carry on, lady! !

You are doing wonderfully Indie! Just wonderfully. You are a MB hero to me, and I had to walk the path of a non reconciliation, but I am hoping your situation will end differently.

Your outlook is amazingly healthy and yes, you WILL feel these emotions and it becomes easier in time. Yes, you will go through the stages of grief if things do not recover. Sometimes closure is never to be given. In the end, I had to formulate my own type of closure for the death of my marriage.

In the end, it was simply about somebody who felt they deserved, and were entitled to more than 1 woman. Somebody who felt they deserved to be a dad when they wanted to be, but most of the time felt that being a playboy was a much more fun thing to do. He would fail. I knew that when I was going thru the "why" and wanting closure stage. That I knew.

I also knew without a doubt his affairage to ow would end and end badly someday. It certainly did. Much worse than my divorce sadly (for the oc). And in the requiem for my former marriage, I had to just know that he had become somebody else. that the man I once knew, was dead forever emotionally to me.

Knowing and accepting these things makes moving on easier somewhat. It is never hard. I divorced at age 33. Right in the middle of the time when I was to have my second child. We'd planned on it. It was a done deal right? Wrong.

I had to change my entire existence and that of my son because of a very selfish entity walking the earth (my xwh). But I changed it as little as possible because neither myself nor my son deserved that.

YOU have all the time in the world to move ahead if it comes to that. I have no doubt you will. It is hard with the anniversary coming around. It is. I find myself at bizarre and odd times thinking how many years it would have been now. I heard on the news earlier that the 15th anniversary of the bombing in ATL at the Olympic games happened and it brought me back to the year I'd married my x (1996). Wierd things bring you back to that. But it gets far far better in time.

I now don't feel much at all, except that he became a waste of humanity. A waste of being a good father and wasting his life away. That's sad, but not my problem anymore. He owns his s**t. I don't.

After a sabbatical from dating after the divorce and time to heal, and a few years after that just enjoying life as a mom and regrouping, I met the real love of my life and later this week is our first wedding anniversary. Now THAT I am excited about. If somebody told me during my darkest days here, that I would be doing this now and so so happy with a man who is actually dad to my son far more than the bio-dad is? I could have never imagined it.

Just know that things WILL work out well for you if you stay the path. Keep the path. have the clear objectives ahead of you like you already do. Know that either he cleans up his act and changes, or else Indie moves ahead and has a beautiful future.

Just lending some love and support your way. Keep fighting the good fight. You rock!