Oh no. I have no idea why some say there shouldn't be relationship talk. That seems very counterproductive and gives the impression that the BS isn't too concerned about the affair. I like what you said to him with the exception of your short texts. I really would stop that, Caracal, because it does come across as chasing.


You are following the plans just fine! There is no right or wrong way in your situation.


He is lying to you about that.

My suggestion would be to stop contacting him and just sit back and take it easy.

Oh Melody, this is so much easier written then done!!! I can not think about anything other then him, missing him, or what he is doing to our marriage. Some times I even catch myself thinking I am just having a nightmare and surely will wake up soon. I had such hope the four days before he left for London, and now there just seems to be nothing. He is moving on and forgetting about me, seemingly without even grieving for the 18 years we had together, for everything we achieved together. Work seems to make my mood even worse, like having to go through the motions and wear a sile for the day just drains whatever strength I had.

He did text back to my last text (and don't worry Melody, promise I haven't text since Sunday though am having to sit on my hands to stop myself). He simply replied that his work hours are winding down so he may have more time to work on the car.

There is no cake eating here, how many of you reading just think I should give up? I mean, he has opted for Plan B, I can't Plan A if I can't chase him given he is not initiating contact. I know giving up is a personal choice, and that I really want our marriage to last, but my odds seem worse then most. Am I dragging out healing by clinging to a WH who has clearly made his choice? He has now been back in London coming on 8 weeks... and clearly is not missing me.

Caracal,

Sorry, as I said in earlier posts, I do not think it is possible to plan A and for most people to meet ENs from afar. At least, I never could figure it out. I don't think Dr. Harley has it figured out either. A couple of years ago, he started the military forum. One of many goals was to identify how successful military marriages were able to stay vibrant during multiple deployments. That forum did not come up with any magic ways to keep romantic love alive when the two people are living independent lives.

When you first started posting here at MB, one of the things that was clear was that you and your husband were living independent lives in your marriage. You had frequent and rather long separations for employment purposes. Right now, you are talking about "sitting and twiddling your thumbs". What did you used to do before? Did you have an active life whereever you are living, even without your husband being there?

I agree with your assessment that your H is not "cake eating". He isn't really getting any of his emotional needs met by you. He is continuing to live his independent life. I don't see how you can change that when living on two different continents. And I do agree that men do not find it attractive to be chased by women. Most men like to do the chasing.

I am so sorry things are not going better.

AM



AM

Thanks for responding at my low point AM. But I do just want to clear up, my husband and I were not having long separations. We had actually spent the last 13 months travelling 24 /7 together, returning to London for two month together, before I returned to Austalia to start a new job and he was to follow a month after. Instead I got the text message to say about "concerns for our future" two weeks after I returned to Aus, he followed three weeks after that. We have never led independent lives, until now. which is making my withdrawal harder, and I find it so confusing that he is not in withdrawal from me given we spent sooo much time together.

Sorry. I misunderstood the earlier posts. I never got stellar grades in reading comprehension.

I thought it was common for the two of you to be working in different locations. If this is your first separation for work, then you were probably meeting his needs - right up until he let someone else do it a few months ago.



AM

Calling out for advice... it has been a bad night, and I get it vets, I should not chase. But my mother has gone into hospital, should I let WH know this? He probably won't care in affair bubble, it is probably more about my EN's, so maybe I shouldn't tell him unless he contacts? Or do I text?

I wish he was here to support me. I know I need to learn to deal with problems myself, but am used to having him give me a hug or some comfort.

Caracal,,

Oh so sorry about your mom. I'm certainly not a vet, but I am weighing in with a no about contacting him. Pains me to say, but you're just going to set yourself up for even more heartache, pain and dissappointment. I have a hospital visual in my head that involves the knight and you and...

But, I just do think what you want to happen is going to. He's not there now and inflicting pain purposefully.

I'm so sorry! Prayers to you and your mom. Maybe others will have better advice. I just don't want to see you reach out to him and suffer even more blows.

Can you call a friend to keep you company, or family?

Thanks Surfer, I ended up texting WH, and he did text me back the next day. Also gave me a call a day later but I am now getting to the point where I just can't cope with him, so I ended the conversation in just 3 minutes. What with worries about my mum I was in no mood to be able to Plan A effectively. No contact since Saturday.

Melody, I took your advice and emailed Joyce for the radio show, it was on 08.08. Dr Harley suggests Plan B, but it was a pretty rushed answer. He was clear not to chase, just as all of the advice has been so I need to listen more!

Thoughts on going to Plan B? I can't really see it making much of a difference, WH is in Plan B already really. He only rang about my mother to make himself out to be the good guy I am sure.

Caracal,

I heard your email on the radio show yesterday. I never went into Plan B. I should have as I took much, too much before my H came out of the fog. My H ended the physical part of the A on D-day, but argued like crazy to stay in contact, be "friends" with OW, refusing to write an NC letter.

But, as I said before, I never could figure out how to implement a Plan A while we were living in two different cities and it already felt like we were in some sort of plan B. Much like you. We were talking on the phone and seeing each other on most weekends. But if I had it to do over, I would write a plan B letter and then go dark. It was not until 16 months later when H contacted OW by email and phone that I wrote a plan B letter and told him that I never wanted to see or speak with him again.

So, I think my advice at this point would be to write a Plan B letter and then go dark. No more talking, texting, or even seeing him if he shows up in Australia, unless he committed to recovering the marriage. But, I defer to those who have other approaches.

BTW, good job at getting off the phone in three minutes. Leave your H wanting more, not the other way around.



AM

I just listened to your radio clip: skip to 7:45 into clip

I agree that Plan B is a good idea. The point of Plan B is to protect you because much more of Plan A will wear you down and make you more unattractive. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

The point of it is not to get him back, but to remove you from the situation until the affair dies. And the odds are GREAT that the affair will die and he will contact you when it is done. Plan B can have the effect of hastening the death of the affair.

Interestingly, when most BW's go into Plan B, the WH tries his best to get her to stay in contact with him.

Do you know about Plan B, Caracal? It is a complete separation with no contact. He is not allowed to contact you and all contact much go through a designated intermediary. It starts with a letter telling him not to contact you anymore until he ends his affair. It won't be hard for you to do at all since you are already separated.

Thanks Melody and AM, time to start getting ready for Plan B... I think this one is going to be hard, although in some ways I am already in it. It is more about realising that by my cutting contact I am in some ways letting go of him and our marriage.


I know this won't happen Melody. There will be no contact, he will not make any effort. It is going to hurt me more then him.


I do have SAA. I am starting to write my Plan B letter. However, I am struggling to make it a love letter as is recommended, as I want him to know the impact this affair and separation has had for me and our families. Also, I have already written letters whilst he was in Australia that were very loving, so why repeat the same? It is going to be very hard to avoid any DJ's.

Also, is an IM necessary in my situation? With our lack of contact I wondered if I could just make all communication through email and only about business stuff. The IM is a difficult one for me to find someone who is not involved in all of our mess.

Caracal, I don't think plan b is going to be very hard for you because you have already been separated for several weeks. You will actually feel better pretty quickly - I don't think you really understand how depressing his occasional contacts are.

And yes you should write a plan b letter. That will give him the path back and will be the last thing he hears from you.

Plan b means no contact, so continued contact via email or text is not plan b, it is plan c. C for compromise, which is the most likely to result in divorce.

I don't know if your husband will try and get through or not, I will just tell you that every BW I have helped into plan b says that and it has only been true exactly once. Even so, the goal is not to motivate him to contact you, but to protect you.

Okay, I am writing my Plan B letter. And am very anxious about going dark, but spoke with a friend (my IM) last night who said to me that if I keep going as I am, even if WH does decide to reconcile "there will be nothing left for him to come back to". She was not referring to my love for him, but my emotional state! I do need to do this for me, although am finding it very hard not to confuse this with hoping he will snap out of it! I am soooo fearful that WH will see my not wanting contact and using IM as juvenile, he is such a proud man. This pride (and his having all his EN's met by OW of course) will prevent him from contacting me or IM, so I know Melody that I will be the second case where there was no attempt at contact in Plan B!

Interestingly mutual and very close European friends contacted me yesterday, and they have been trying to contact WH for two months, with no success. I exposed to them so they are aware of my version of affair. WH seems to have totally shut himself off in affair bubble. I am curious about whether his family are having much contact, I have not initiated any contact and think with Plan B it may be better for me to disengage from them too.

I know this next question may get me , I welcome the feedback. I have been reading Dobson's Love Must Be Tough, and am wondering about incorporating some of his tactics given they merge with Plan B. The reason is that I have done the clingy, begging needy love letters when WH was in Australia (admittedly before I knew of affair). He has even said he knows I would do anything to make our marriage work. At no point have I really tried to have my husband see the impact of his affair on myself and others. Can I refer to this in letter without doing any major lovebusting?

I feel for myself that I would get more out of Plan B letter if I ended it more along the lines that I am walking away with my dignity and conscience intact, and whilst he can contact me should he end the affair and want to reconcile, I will not be waiting for him. My WH has always admired my strength, and I feel that since the separation I have lost that. Any ideas?

Caracal,

Sounds no different than a Plan B letter to me (your example). The content is important, but the follow through (yours) is critical.

Also, Plan A should be short for exactly this reason...to hold and maintain (and deposit) as much LB$ as possible, and then go to dark Plan B. Plan A like crazy, and then go to Plan B with 100% resolve, planning and without fail. I can't comment on your timing. Others certainly can.

P.S.

Plan B is not inevitable. I did not mean to imply that! Plan A like crazy...for a few weeks at most. Then evaluate, but keep posting.

Have you READ the Plan B letter in SAA? Because it does state how hurtful his affair has been.


Don't say you are walking away with your conscience and dignity intact, that sounds like you are looking down on him. Do you have the Plan B letter in Surviving an Affair? Can you post it and let us give you feedback? And please keep it short. It really doesn't need to be more than 4-6 short paragraphs.

Just say how much he has hurt you, how you realize you contributed to the broken state of the marriage and would change in the future if he ends his affair and commits to the marriage. Then give him the path back and lay out your conditions: end your affair and commit to the recovery of your marriage.

How about something like this?

Dear WH, I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your affair once and for all.

Your affair has been the most painful experience of my life; so much so that I feel the love I once had for you rapidly eroding. It is because of this that I must end all direct contact with you. I would only be interested in speaking to you again if you end your affair and commit to the recovery of our marriage. I would ask that any pertinent information be communicated through IM, who has agreed to act as a go between.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your affair, and I simply cannot communicate any longer, knowing that you are with her.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in an affair.

With my love,
Caracal

"I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in an affair. "

Awesome. I just think "cannot" should be "will not". My .02.

That line is from the Plan B letter in Surviving an Affair!