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Surfer88 #2537091 08/20/11 11:58 PM
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I am brought to mind of those cheesy Cristopher Lee / Peter Cushing movies of the '50s and '60s where at least once the townspeople-extras grab their torches (WalMart $6.99) and head to the castle to drive out the monster-du-jour. Depending on the point-of-view of the specific film, the monster either needed driving out, or everything was a big misunderstanding.

I don't know what 180 did (how often, how strongly, and to whom) in her previous manifestation on MB. I do believe however, that there are knowledgeable folks here in sufficient numbers to counter any "heresy" that ANYONE tries to slip past. For that reason (and because I'm not that far removed from being slapped down hard), I cannot support the idea of pre-emptively shouting down anyone who tries to post. Each of us is empowered to actively refute and challenge any position, or passively ignore it.

Anyway, just my $0.02......

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My own 2 cents:

FWIW, I think 180 was pretty straight-up in her initial posts. She said she was guilty of blatant lies, wasting posters' time, and being a prime example of what an unrepentant wayward looks like, and she acknowledged having destroyed the man she married. Unprompted & in her own words. In that & subsequent posts, I just can't see a basis for the assertion that she "started this thread on a very bad foot" or "came off as hostile, and unforgiving" herself. Even when I re-read it a 2nd time to look for it.

Now: Did she finish her previous thread(s) on a very bad foot? Absolutely. So far, I don't see her contesting that. Did she fail to preemptively apologize in specific detail for each of the impacts that Pepperband highlighted so well? Yes. Maybe 180 has supposed some of those impacts during the interim between now and her thread of 2 years ago, or maybe not; but I am sure she has not felt them herself, any more than one who fires a gun but who has never been shot can feel or know what it feels like to get shot.

180, I think there are some lessons here for you as well:

Most of all, you see that an adulterer (former or not) starts out with zero credibility.

Given that you have a months-long (perhaps years-long) track record of being insincere on this Forum (prior to leaving and/or returning under different usernames), when you highlight ways in which you say you & your outlook have changed, even if you are sincere, there'll often be (among those familiar with your "body of work") a strong presumption that you might not be sincere.

And even an objective self-assessment (if such a thing is possible) will often come across as self-congratulatory, to the extent the assessment is positive. So for example, words that go out of your way to point out your "courage" for posting here, may be taken as unseemly self-praise. If you're humble, you'll be on your guard against that sort of thing; and if others someday compliment your courage, you'll pocket the compliment but feel a little ill-at-ease over it.

180, there are so few FWSs here that I am sure there are people who must think I'm a fraud. My first two months of posts got wiped out by the server-crash that trashed all the posts from May-October 2009, so I can't even go back & show 'em those. Other posters here can't see your life. They have only your words to go by -- all of your words, both present & past. If you don't have a spouse to chime in & vouch for you, then they'll be that much more skeptical still. Your ex-husband isn't here any longer to articulate his past or present suffering. So even though you tried to be comprehensive in your general apology for having "destroyed" the man you married, there'll be lots of skepticism over the degree to which you've made an effort to appreciate his suffering, apart from your own self-inflicted suffering.

You can't argue your way past the skepticism. You can only win back credibility in installments, over (much) time...

...if your statements & advice make sense,

...if they are consistent with what MarriageBuilders teaches,

...if they are buttressed by specific examples from your own life experience, that led you to your present understandings of things.

There aren't that many active waywards who come here. Even fewer stay. Most people who are still in a wayward fog, are too in-the-fog to go online to seek any sort of help, because they've convinced themselves that they don't need help. So you will be speaking mostly to BSs (those whose marriages have been saved, those whose marriages have not, and those for whom the jury is still out), and to a small universe of FWSs here who want on at least some level to save their marriages. Not having recovered your own marriage, you will be able to deliver credible advice mainly from the standpoint of "what doesn't work & why not." If you stay within the limits of your practical experience, you may find that you have much to offer, to some. You may find it less than cathartic, because the percentage and the actual number of people whom you'll be able to reach & help may be small, especially given your circumstances.

It's often said that we learn more from our failures than from our successes. Of course it is possible for someone whose marriage has failed to learn from that, to learn from his or her mistakes & sins, and to change, and to provide guidance to others on the basis of that experience. I am glad to see that the poster who posed a question that could easily be construed as suggesting it might not be possible, also seemed to acknowledge subsequently that a clarification of the record was in order. 180, my challenge to you is, day-in & day out, knowing that you can't prove it all at once, prove it anyway.















Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
GloveOil #2537113 08/21/11 07:04 AM
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MS/180, GO just gave a very nice summation of the reality of the little world that we WS's have created for ourselves.

Your thread's been battered around a bit over the last day or two, but I'd say there are valuable things to be gleaned from all of those posts in some way, shape, or form.

Keep posting.


Me - 30 (FWW)
H - 30 (BH)
DSx2
D-day: 2008
GloveOil #2537126 08/21/11 09:45 AM
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Nice post GO.

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Words fail to express how sorry I am for the destruction of hopes and dreams for the many people who read through my previous threads. It pains me to no end knowing that I affected so many people in that way. As an active wayward, I had the all about me, me, me, me and let's not forget, ME mentality and couldn't see past my own selfish behavior to even concern myself with the lives of other people. I have shed quite a few tears reading through everyone's replies to me and they weren't tears of self pity. They were tears of remorse over the pain I caused. If there is any way that I can personally right what I did wrong to each of you, please tell me what I can do. I know that you only know me by my words here on this forum and right now they don't account for much because my credibility is shot. I have no one to blame but myself and that is something I will always live with. I no longer have a marriage to save and that also is my fault, but my willingness and commitment to change and become a humble human being with humility is what I am working on.

I am not here to make friends or be viewed as anyone other than who I am as ugly as that is. I was an arrogant, cheating liar who played the game and lost it all under my own hands.

I no longer have a marriage to save and will not post to any WW's until MB sees that I am fit and ready to do so. To tout that I am ready under my own self evaluation would be arrogant and self righteous. Although I want to help, I need to be proven over time. I also accept that I may never get that opportunity given my past behavior. All I can ask for is a chance.

I am not as well spoken as some of you here, but I am truly sorry and am asking for your help in what I can do to show you my repentance.

180 #2537377 08/22/11 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: 180
I am not as well spoken as some of you here, but I am truly sorry and am asking for your help in what I can do to show you my repentance.


You can start by naming your unknown alias, as you have been asked to do.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
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What to do with an Angry Husband

180 #2537381 08/22/11 12:42 PM
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180,

Even the active WWs on her, perhaps especially the WWs, have taught me a great deal about why my W strayed with her OMs. It does no one any good if you don't tell the truth of how you feel now or how you felt during the affair.

There are a great many non-posting guests on this site who will read your posts and recognize either themselves or their spouse in what you have written.

You have every right to be here.

God Bless
Gamma

Her alias was muted sparkle or something like that

Last edited by Gamma; 08/22/11 12:43 PM.
Gamma #2537382 08/22/11 12:47 PM
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Gamma, she has admitted to having another alias BESIDES sparkle which she is not naming, even though she has been asked to.

If she is sincere, then she has nothing to hide.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Gamma #2537394 08/22/11 01:41 PM
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Muted Sparkle and the other one I only used for a brief time a while ago. I'm pretty certain it was "better now" but I am trying very hard to find it for you.

Someone had asked about what was going on in our marriage that lead up to our divorce and had concerns that I left out critical points. I went NC (changed my number and blocked his e-mail) with my AP for 2 months but couldn't hold to it and ended up telling him about my upcoming surgery. He could have cared less which was the best thing that could have happened, but at the time I didn't think so. Later, he e-mailed me a scathing e-mail caling me out on all of my lies, telling me what a worthless POS I truly was and how he never wanted to hear from me again. Not only did he shun me, but I was also alienated by my family as well as my H. I was now completely alone and had no one but myself (and my own company was no good). My H and I fought constantly and he wanted me to file for divorce and get out. I willingly agreed and within a month's time, I was out and in a place of my own. During the course of our divorce, my H started telling me about a HS friend that he was able to reconnect with through FB and how happy he was that he found her to talk to. 4 months after our divorce was finalized, she came out to see him with her girlfriend and he introduced her to my parents and wanted me to meet her as well. I reluctantly agreed only because she was with my kids during her stay and I wanted to know who she was. 3 months later, she came out again and for week and then 2wks later moved out here with her daughter. The story that I was given is that her H was a violent man and so she had and her daughter had to leave the state for their safety. It didn't sound right to me considering that I had played that same game with him but I let it go....we weren't married anymore and who was I to judge after all that I did? I kept asking him questions about her circumstances because she was living with my kids and I didn't want to take the risk of some maniac coming to his house while the kids were there. He wouldn't tell me and every time he did, the story changed. I did my own research and found her H on FB. It was there that I got the real story along with copies of phone records and other information I wish I hadn't know. Turns out that he had been pursuing her for 2yrs prior to our divorce through social networking (MS and FB) but at the time I didn't notice or care because I was too immursed in my own affairs. Yep, jokes on me too and that really stung.

When I left, I hated who I had become and what I put everyone through. I WANTED to stop the sick behavior and swore I would commit to doing whatever it took to stop. So now I live not only with what I have done, but also with how it feels to be played as well. I am acutely aware of the pain, loss and the ripple effect that affairs have. I look forward to my Christian counseling sessions as they are another small step in helping to conquer the disfunction in my life. Minute by minute, I am working on things and I am in constant prayer. I still don't have a relationship with my own family and this will be the 3rd year that I have not seen them (we only live 15 miles from each other). I have nephews I have never met and one that I don't even know his name. I'm paying DEARLY for the destruction in my wake and the pain is overwhelming. All of it is deserved.

180 #2537428 08/22/11 03:17 PM
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It's not "Better Now" or "BetterNow." I've done searches for those.


Markos' Wife
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8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2537432 08/22/11 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Yes I did. It was "better now" or something close to that. I wanted help for dealing with my XH's situation. I knew your advice would be solid but wasn't ready to face all of you.

What was the "situation" that you needed help with?

Quote:
I discontinued using that account because I knew it was foolish to even go there.

Why?


Markos' Wife
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8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2537479 08/22/11 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Prisca
It's not "Better Now" or "BetterNow." I've done searches for those.


Is it stronger now? I sort of recognized the writing style because I posted to you on the divorced forum here: here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote:
I went NC (changed my number and blocked his e-mail) with my AP for 2 months but couldn't hold to it...


Piffle. You made a choice.

Watch for these types of errors in your thinking. Classic fog-talk. Once you recognize it, you can weed it out.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: Prisca
It's not "Better Now" or "BetterNow." I've done searches for those.


Is it stronger now? I sort of recognized the writing style because I posted to you on the divorced forum here: here


Sure sounds like it.

180 #2537590 08/23/11 08:43 AM
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Hi 180,

I wish you well on your path to self healing and betterment. I'm not posting much right now due to an injury which has caused numbness in one of my hands and a couple of fingers on that hand, but I am reading along -- Anyway, I did want to mention a couple of quick things.

1. I'd appreciate public confirmation that you posted as Spartan [Your Betrayed Ex-Husband] in an effort to mislead this forum when you were here as MutedSparkle. Being 100% honest is the only way to healing.

and

2. Like Pep, I don't know if I should be angry with you or thank you -- You were the last WW I ever helped tried to help offline -- I did break down and offer to help one other person this year [strugglingaz], but that never came to fruition, and sadly I believe she remains wayward today. Your situation made me more skeptical -- cynical -- or maybe just more discerning. I don't know. Also like Pep, I will never be able to completely trust you, and since you aren't really a part of my life, there is no way for that to change -- and that's okay, but you should know, because it's important for you to understand how your choices impact others, and ultimately you -- Good or bad, ALL choices have consequences -- even the tiniest ones. Understanding that and living each moment of your life conscious of that is very empowering.

Godspeed on your journey. Take good care.

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Originally Posted By: MrsWondering
Being 100% honest is the only way to healing.


180, this is why so many of us are encouraging you to open up and tell more unpleasant truths.

I've seen a couple of posts on this thread asking if you have anything to offer Marriage Builders. At this point, I'm not asking that question; I'm asking what can Marriage Builders do for you. And I think Marriage Builders can help you heal by encouraging honesty and maturity. I know that I have certainly gained a lot of maturity from reading and posting here (and that I have a lot more ground to cover on that front), and I wish for you the same benefit that I have been receiving, and I know that you simply cannot have that without honesty. Full, total honesty.

I have really learned to trust the hunches of people here that when they feel there is more to the story, there usually is. Some time back there was an active wayward spouse posting who was coming out of an emotional affair. Turned out it was a physical affair, and everybody who'd been here five or more years just knew it. I don't know how they do that, but they do.

So for your sake, I encourage you to offer a full accounting. Retell your whole story, and be honest about it this time. Who cares what you may or may not offer MB down the road ... this is a great growth opportunity that is being offered to YOU.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2537618 08/23/11 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: markos
And I think Marriage Builders can help you heal by encouraging honesty and maturity. I know that I have certainly gained a lot of maturity from reading and posting here (and that I have a lot more ground to cover on that front), and I wish for you the same benefit that I have been receiving, and I know that you simply cannot have that without honesty. Full, total honesty.

Agreed. I do not know you, 180. I wasn't here when you lied to everybody. I have no beef with you. BUT, I do know, from personal experience, what lies do to the liar. They will continue to eat away at you, from the inside, until you have exposed them all to the light.

You will not heal from your self-inflicted wounds, you will not grow, you will not be able to help others until you are completely honest with others and yourself.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Prisca #2537629 08/23/11 10:40 AM
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180,

I just seen that Mrs. W. posted on here. And as she posted she did try profusely to help my wife (strugglingaz). My ww would have none of it (how sad). Then I see that she tried helping you as well. My question is when someone reaches out the way she has to you and my ww why do you continue to lie and betray? What is also ironic is that people on here can smell a counterfeit.

It sounds like you are at a crossroad right now and I would suggest coming clean with everything. Being righteous will only make people want to right you off and puts you in a deeper hole.

Personally I would love to see you come clean and prove to everyone on this site you are for real. I will be keeping an eye out!

Sounds like you need to start with Pep and Mrs. W.........


Me-BH-39
WW-34 (Strugglingaz)
Married 7-dated 3 previous
D-10
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1st D-day-2-26-11 2nd D-day-5-17-11
NC-3-9-11---Broke 4-2-11, 4-8-11-,5-16-11 Maybe more
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Originally Posted By: MrsWondering
Hi 180,


1. I'd appreciate public confirmation that you posted as Spartan [Your Betrayed Ex-Husband] in an effort to mislead this forum when you were here as MutedSparkle. Being 100% honest is the only way to healing.




Seriously?

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Hah! I remember M_S.

Confirm my general opinion of all adulterers she did.


Originally Posted By: wulffpack_girl
What does a person do, when they lose everything that matters, and it's all their fault?

That's my question.

Perhaps by doing whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, to mitigate the true damage:

What does a person do when they lose everything that matters, and it's entirely their spouses fault?

Adulterers agonizing over their internal states : mostly self-pity.

Everything needs to be done pretty much presents itself to the truly repentant.


"Never forget that your pain means nothing to a WS." ~Mulan

"An ethical man knows it is wrong to cheat on his wife. A moral man will not actually do it." ~ Ducky

WS: They are who they are.

When an eel lunges out
And it bites off your snout
Thats a moray ~DS
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