Oh, I DEF agree with you. We said that right away but Grandma will not go home because her pastor said not to. Obviously he knows nothing about affairs ... or has a construed view on it .. OR possibly even the affair partner himself! Pastors wife died a year ago ... and grandma is confiding in him all her personal troubles within her marriage? and he tells her to stay away for a week or so? RED FLAG! My wife actually asked her out right and she said NO DEF not! RED FLAG!

The affair has to be killed .. which is why we are going to help him get the goods hopefully on sunday. But man this is hard and its not even an affair in my own marriage!

It feels weird being so involved .. they want us to help .. but almost want us to do all the foot work for them since we know so much. I almost wish I hadnt got involved but when my DD13 got involved I had too, so i could lift this burden and help her understand whats going on and now we seem to be the sounding board for everyone due to the strentgh of our marriage (13 years married and together for 17)

Grandpa is partially to blame for the condition of their marriage for sure (we explained that to him and he said " I didnt know i was hurting her so badly she never told me!".. we seem him badger grandma all the time verbally and she responds in the same manner. They always brushed it off an jokes but once in a while grandma would flip her top about it and since her #1 need is admiration .. its been killing her love for him for years! He finally sees it ..

Will he hire a PI? HE is going to have to get aggressive if he wants to save his marriage. There is something very funny about this pastor.

I agree!

Thats a great question ML ... I will ask him when i get a chance.

ML. I really appreciate you as a sounding board in this. I am also going to advise him get a VAR and put it in Grandmas car after she gets home from being here on Sunday. yes just learned she is going home after she leaves here on monday sometime.

Yeah there is something funny about this pastor... its striking up more red flags than anything right now.

p.s. I hope grandma is on Team Marriage.

MNG, a better way to bust her if he can't swing a PI is to sneak eblaster on her cell phone. It will send and record all her texts, phone calls and it has a GPS on it that sends her location. That runs about $65. I realize he doesn't have a computer but he might get one or access his email account on a library computer.

P.s. Grandma is NOT on team marriage. She is on team wayward.

Well .. update.

GRandma came over feeling very entitled, claiming that she wants for SURE for her marriage to be over and how grandpa was just not the man for her anymore and how he doenst seem to get it or how she feels. She has a history of always running when facing conflict but this time she said she would listen to what we had to say. She told us it was not sexual yet .. shes sure thinking about it so because her reaction was not what she normally does we accepted her answer for now about it not being sexual yet so we could get more info out of her.

AFter we got my children to bed and let grandma have some time with them I got to work on how to approach her with MB. We told grandma how we felt about her affair (sexual or not) She admitted it was close to moving to sexual but she was feeling convicted by god to not move any further yet with either her hubby or her AP. Her Pastor now recommended an even longer seperation. (red flag) SHe wants to gather all her INFO from everyone and how they feel about it before making a final decision apparently, but was still insistant that grandpa will not change to be the man she wants.

We asked her how she would feel if grandpa could be the man she wants? And then read out some MB material for her and let her listen and ask questions. She became quite receptive to the information and agreed with us that it could work but was not convinced that her hubby was willing to change his old habits (DJ i know) and that she was scared to go back becasue of this fear and that he would not make any perminant changes to his bad LB habits. We told her that was a disrespectful judgement and that she can not change her hubby .. he has to want to change and that we would give him and guide him with the tools to make those changes for her. SHe seemed to light up wth a bit of hope.

After about 3 hours or so of reading and discussing some appropriate material that would resonate with her .. she went to bed and I gave her HNHN. By morning she had read almost all of it and seemed to have a new outlook and wanted more info. We told her that we sent surviving an affair to grandpa and she said great and hopes that he will maybe make some changes. Well .. after a bit of discussion again that day god put it in me to get a copy of FIREPROOF and watch it with her, i figured afterall .. she is christian and maybe needed a message that included a godly perspective on this and after she watched it .. she BALLED.. cried ... and said that she had to go home and that she was no longer feeling entitled .. but now she was confused about what she wanted to do. We told her to NOT make ANY RASH decisions for 6 months so they could spend some time discovering EMotional needs and working through the material either togehter or seperate so they oculd both eventually be receptive to eachothers changes. I think it really hit home for her. She took that book HNHN with her and said she will give it to grandpa as soon as she finishes reading it. She cried some more ... hugged us all ... and thanked us for making things alot more clearer for her even though she was confused now. Her final statement after all our "marriage therapy" was that she was confused and it now depends on grandpa.

We hope grandpa will step up and follow surviving an affair and we plan on sending him a copy now of lovebusters and recommending him to read it and DO it. He does alot of talking and not enough doing. Even though grandma doesnt admit to a PA we remind grandpa that a EA is just as damaging as a PA and to treat them the same and that the book SAA will guide him with the steps to take and lovebusters will help him identify how he mistreated his wife. He says now he is willing to do anything becasue all his other advice he has been given has failed up to this point and we are giving him hope with MB approach.

What a stressful weekend...... but we did as god beconed and gave the message he wanted us to deliever. Its not up to US to fight for them ... they need to learn to do it on their own but grandma knows where we stand and we told her what we though exactly and she didnt runaway like she normally does .. so thats a good sign.

MNG

You made good progress! But I would not stop there. The affair needs to be killed, MNG. I would call the pastor and tell him about the affair. I don't believe he really knows and think she is lying. Another very important thing you can do is call up the OM yourself and tell him there is no future in his affair. Tell him he will be eternally hated by all of you and will never be welcomed into your family. It is real important to expose this affair and put pressure on the OM.

I am cringing that she has HNHN in her hands and am concerned that she will come away blaming gpa for her affair. If that happens, it would be helpful to remind her that her affair was caused by her poor boundaries around men. If that is not addressed she won't take responsibility for her behavior.

But more importantly, run this scumbag off, NMG. Since her affair affects your family you are fully within your rights to run this loser off.

Thanks ... I am doing all I can. UNfortunately they live a 6hour+ drive from me so most of our conversations are via phone.

The other man has not been discovered yet as to whom he is. I would gladly call this other man and tell him to GTFO! However .. that is not possible since we have no information in regards to whom he is.

We have a new issue now though... Grandpa is moved out of his marital home and he did a partial plan doormat... and grandma has changed the locks on him to prevent him from getting in after grandpa made a scene at church the other day (they are both still going to the same church). WE had advised him not to be a doormat and to stay in his home .. but he took his pastors advice to avoid making his wife angry and moved out at her request under the advisory of the pastor. He finally admitted that everything that we said she was going to do she has done .. and the pastors advice has been nothing but trouble for him. He is now doing everything we say .. however .. he is no longer in a positiion to PLan A her .. even though he now knows her top needs.

Since he is in a form of plan B .. we advised him now to get lots of sleep .. and get some excercise and to not engage in his wife at church anymore unless he can remain calm. We also said for him not make conversation unpleasant or be emotional and possibly get some anti_depressants and that he will have to demonstrate to her how appealing he can be and try to convince her to let him come back home. WE told him the affair may need to die a natural death unless he can somehow snoop and find out who this guy is .. but with out access to the home snooping seems almost impossible at this point. He may NEED a PI now... And I will tell him that next time we talk.

I have a funny suspicion this OM is at work ... and grandma admitted to us that he is married and having a hard time with his wife as well. What else should I tell grandpa to do?

p.s. GRandma also says she is not past the point of no return with this man .. apparently and has not had sex with him yet but she feels very strongly about him and can not stop thinking about him.

edit = P.S.

MNG, if he wants to save his marriage, he needs to do Plan A and stop being a wuss. That means he GOES HOME right now and stays there. She can't legally bar him without a court order. If he is locked out, he just has to call the police to let him in. Secondly, he needs to expose this wide and far once he gets the goods.

He needs to find out who the OM is NOW. Even if has to hire a PI, he needs to do that. He can probably find out in one day who the OM is. Tell him to find out and then start exposing the affair.

Many courts seriously frown on abandonment and he has abandoned his wife and his home. He needs to get his [censored] home and stop being silly.

This marriage is very salvagable if your gpa does what I said above. This affair is doomed and I assure you the OM will dump your gma as soon as his wife finds out.

It is very, very rare that a married man ever leaves his wife for a cheater and a cheap piece of fun.

Expose the affair and I wager the OM will dump gma like yesterdays garbage.

THanks ML. Last night I sent a FB message to their pastor. I revealed to him that I know of this affair and told him that even tho she claims its over ... its not. I told him I have the entire 3 hours of the conversation voice recorded.

GRandma is head of the worship team, and she is going to be FURIOUS at me for telling the pastor whats really going on as best as i was told since she lied to her pastor at the meeting they had about it. SHe will most likely lose her position until she recovers her marriage (rightfully so). I have asked the pastor to recommend they move back in together to work on this with the marriage builders material and that if she refuses to disclose who this other man is .. that is the sign she is protecting this OM from the consequences of their immoral actions. In fact .. grandma could be reading this right now ... I dont know. Its all scary kinda.. I hate being the bearer of bad news .. and doing all this foot work for them that may cause us to lose our relationship with GMA .. but it has to be done. The pastor is going away til next week but says he will get back to me when he gets back and is going to check out MB himself to gain my perspective.

This is a draining experience for me ... and I am not the one having an affair .. or the BS. My mind turns all night long on how to reply and how to process this .. and react to this as people come to me for advice on this ... I am feeling heavily burdened by this experience and not sleeping very well.

*sigh*

MNG

MNG, another book he might read to "gain some perspective" would be the Bible. I wonder if he is familiar with that book? In that book, there are very specific steps to be taken when a member is engaged in sin. Additionally, Ephesians 5:11 tells us to expose sin and have nothing to do with the works of darkness.

Have you had a chance to speak to Gpa and give him my suggestions? He is going to have to man up here and start fighting for his marriage if he wants to save it. And the first step is for him to go home.

Yeah .. he is well versed in the bible. The pastor admits he needs or may need marriage builders as a tool for his church and wants to gain my perspective. He is struggling with how to deal with this too as he has just learned that I am coaching them with marriage builders material and also that GMA and GPA are not the only struggling marriage in his church who are looking to him for guidance.

Ephesians also has a great one about truth in

Ephesians 4:15:
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, into Christ

Do you know of anymore verses like these or these specific steps you talk about?? Where can I find it? I would like to read what god says about how to deal with a fellow brother or sister who is engaging in sin like this.

I have not had a chance to discuss your recent suggestions to GPA. He has been working his new job and hasn't been available to talk much since he left his marital home other than the one time I spoke to him. I will try and call him tonight and give him some additional advice as per your suggestion. He claimed he was willing to do whatever we say as long as he feels it will not drive GMA away further. So I hope he grows a pair and stands up for himself and his marriage .. however hes an emotional wreck right now .. last I spoke to him I told him to make himself more appealing and stop whining when he sees her at church and that it did no justice and only served to make GMA respect him less. He agreed.. I then said to get some rest and excercise to hlp eleviate some of the stress he is going through and that some books are on the way to help him cope and understand whats going on. He cried while talking to my wife. . and then when i spoke to him .. he stopped crying about it and listened to me for those few mins.

I am hoping that by me telling the pastor to have them get back together that they will listen to his suggestion (if he gets to them in time before he leaves) since he first told them to seperate for a short period of time to reflect on what was going on. I think that GMA has the pastor gaslighted as to whats really going on so I am trying to bring him into the light and awaiting a second reply from him to hear what he has to say since he has ALOT of influence over GPA and GMA.

This is hard work ... thank god its not my marriage. THank God For marriage builders ... and thank god for your support and advice. I think I would have been lost without this place.

MNG

MNG, I think it is good you are speaking to the pastor, but I also think it is very important that you leave him out of the loop and go to your grandpa. And here is why. This pastor has no idea what he is doing and has already caused so much damage that I don't think you should count on him for help. Cut him out of the loop instead of trying to educate him and go straight to Grandpa. Tell him that they save marriages every day on Marriage Builders and this is how it is done.

This pastor is giving them very bad advice and I would persuade your Gpa on that point. Tell your Gpa that he only facilitates the affair and increases his chance of divorce by moving out.

I worry about using the pastor because if you can't sell him, then he will sell AGAINST MB to Gpa and then their marriage will be further harmed for absolutely no good reason. Please focus on persuading your grandfather. Maybe even get him to send an email to Dr Harley at the radio and speak to Dr Harley. Dr Harley is a Christian with 40 years experience saving marriages, whereas the pastor has no idea what he is doing.

He needs to view his wife as a falling down drunk who is lost. She is high on the addiction of an affair. So by moving out, he is enabling her affair. By leaving he drives her further away by facilitating her affair. She won't like him coming home because it interferes with her affair, but that is ok. TELL HIM THE GOAL HERE IS TO SAVE HIS MARRIAGE, NOT TO AVOID MAKING HER ANGRY AT ALL COSTS. <-------emphasize this point

You really have to coach a man to push them to endure her anger, because men are afraid. So assure him that her anger is ok. If she were a drunk driver wouldn't he take her car keys away even if made her angry? Frame it like to him.

And tell him that his wife needs him now more than ever, so he needs to go home. Now is the worst time in the world to abandon her. Many courts view his leaving as abandonment and FROWN on that. Saying some "pastor" told him to do that is no excuse. What he did was wrong.

He needs to just go home without notice and move right back into his own bedroom.

Well .. I have an update for myself. I finally told my wife I have an account here and let her read my posts. I had kept it from her because I was afraid of her reaction to me posting here. I figured since this situation that is unfolding in our lives that all truths must come out. It was eating me alive not telling her about me posting here. I feel MUCH better now because I told my wife I was getting support here for Grandma and Grandpas situation. My wife told me she needed some just compensation and asked for a sushi dinner and to not dirty the kitchen that night due to my omission of being here. I gladly complied! She made an account aswell and you will probably hear from her soon. Her username is MrsNiceGuy.

THis was the last thing i needed to get off my chest in regards to openness and honesty .. since one of my wifes top needs is such .. and she out right asked me if i was a member here.. i couldnt lie and told her.

Her reaction was FAR better than i expected .. but we are in a much better place now.

Thank GOD for MB!

MNG, that is great that you invited your wife here! I did notice her name the other night and saw her reading.. Welcome Mrs MNG!

It takes a toll to hide stuff from the important people in your life - so glad to hear that your wife is here! Hi, Mrs. Nice Guy!

Hi, Mrs. Nice Guy! Glad you are here!