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HSL,

I see at the moment that you are serious about correcting the wrongs that you have done to your marriage. I say "Moment". I say this because so many waywards jump on board right away wanting to commit to their marriage and help their betrayed spouse. I know this first hand as my ww did the exact same thing.

Over the next days/weeks/ you will experience withdrawl from the om and have several urges to contact him. From my experience I strongly recommend deleting your email and facebook acounts. It is very easy to slip and just check his facebook and trigger yourself. You even need to get a new phone number to eliminate any chance of him contacting you.

Those are extraordinary precautions!! Those are for you and especially for your husband so he can see that you are following a plan to prove to him that you are serious about making him feel secure again in your marriage.

Does your marriage mean more to you than Facebook? Does your marriage mean more to you than an email account and a phone number? I can tell you that those DID mean more to my ww than our marriage and I can tell you the end of our divorce is very near because of things like that. I will have to explain this to my kids someday, not something I'm looking forward to!


Me-BH-39
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Read this thread:
Extraordinary Precautions
What are you willing to do?


Markos' Wife
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8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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Originally Posted by InnerStrength
HSL,

I see at the moment that you are serious about correcting the wrongs that you have done to your marriage.
I jump to no such conclusion.

HSL, you let your HUSBAND choose whether you keep the Facebook & e-mail accounts. Let it be his choice. Not yours.

I think you're trying to keep open avenues of contact with OM.
I think you're all talk.
I fear for your husband.

Last edited by GloveOil; 09/08/11 03:42 PM. Reason: typos...

Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by InnerStrength
HSL,

I see at the moment that you are serious about correcting the wrongs that you have done to your marriage.
I jump to no such conclusions.

HSL, you let your HUSBAND choose whether you keep the Facebook & e-mail accounts. Let it be his choice. Not yours.

I think you're trying to keep open avenuues of contact with OM.
I think you're all talk.
I fear for your husband.

I agree. People who are serious...........get serious. They take actions that back up their words. Talk is cheap with a wayward. As they say in Texas, money talks and bull**it walks.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Ask him what HE wants.

and ask him to come on here.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by GloveOil
Originally Posted by InnerStrength
HSL,

I see at the moment that you are serious about correcting the wrongs that you have done to your marriage.
I jump to no such conclusions.

HSL, you let your HUSBAND choose whether you keep the Facebook & e-mail accounts. Let it be his choice. Not yours.

I think you're trying to keep open avenuues of contact with OM.
I think you're all talk.
I fear for your husband.

I agree. People who are serious...........get serious. They take actions that back up their words. Talk is cheap with a wayward. As they say in Texas, money talks and bull**it walks.

Ditto ditto.

skeptical


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
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“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Today a couple of things I looked up were cell phones that did not have the internet or email option....as well as keylogger software. I decided to call my husband and suggested some ideas:

1) Delete my facebook

2) Trade my smartphone in for a regular cell phone

3) Install keylogger software

His response was he didn't want me to do that. He said what he wanted from me was to behave like an adult and make the right decisions. He said that from my actions it would build trust again. He said he doesn't want to police me. I said I WANTED him to check up on me.

Go ahead think what you want. I know my intentions and am taking cues from my husband. I know where my weaknesses are and know I am not suddenly immune to them just because I want to make things right and it's only been 6 days. I know that I have a long road ahead of me. Having gotten through immediate eye of the storm, I know that I have a lot of work to do. I'm still trying to figure out which end is up. I don't care who thinks I am BSing because I have no reason to BS any of you.....I don't know any of you from Adam. I came on here for a couple of reasons. For support in trying to get through this and to see if I could find some answers. I know I screwed the hell up in my marriage and I regret it very much. I am hearing what all of you are telling me, and believe me my ears are open. I am taking your suggestions to heart. But I get the feeling that no matter what I say I will be met with criticism and judging. If you don't want me on here....just say so and I will leave.

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Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
Today a couple of things I looked up were cell phones that did not have the internet or email option....as well as keylogger software. I decided to call my husband and suggested some ideas:

1) Delete my facebook

2) Trade my smartphone in for a regular cell phone

3) Install keylogger software

His response was he didn't want me to do that. He said what he wanted from me was to behave like an adult and make the right decisions.

Once again, your actions do not back up your words. If you were serious, you would have already removed the means of contact, which means deleting your facebook account and changing phone #s and email addresses.

Talk is cheap, HSL.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
His response was he didn't want me to do that. He said what he wanted from me was to behave like an adult and make the right decisions. He said that from my actions it would build trust again. He said he doesn't want to police me. I said I WANTED him to check up on me.

Exactly! And as we can see here, your actions do not back up your words. Someone who is serious about affair proofing their marriage removes the means and changes the environment that allowed the affair to take place. It is like the recovering alcoholic. An alcoholic who is serious about sobering up stays out of the bar and gets the booze out of his house. HE DEMONSTRATES HIS SINCERITY BY HIS ACTIONS.

An "adult" who is serious about recovery removes the temptations herself. YOU are responsible for your own extraordinary precautions, not anyone else.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
If you don't want me on here....just say so and I will leave.


Who said that? Not me. In fact Ive asked a few times to get your hubby to join in too. He must need support, so direct him to some. What does he say to that?

Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
He said what he wanted from me was to behave like an adult and make the right decisions. He said that from my actions it would build trust again. He said he doesn't want to police me.


I agree with him. No one on here is tying to turn your hubby into your jailer.

Show voluntary transparency. (You have already done this by leaving your phone around him and letting him know he is welcome to check it out), I would add to this good start by getting a keylogger installed and telling him where he can check the reports if he ever feels the need. He doesnt HAVE to. Just Show him that he CAN, that you are willing.


Show voluntarily that you will remove temptations. Cancel Facebook, show him the print out of the cancellation. Tell him there isnt anything you wouldnt do.

The new phone sounds great - so do it.

In AlAnon they tell family members not to pour away any booze. The alcoholic must do that. So do it.

Your h sounds like a wise man! Get him on here!

What are you waiting for?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hi, HSL,

This is a little more like it. A little. smile But it's a start.

Remember, I'm talking at you from the standpoint of a wayward spouse who went through withdrawal. You voiced interest in how to beat that -- (You asked for "any advice on how to stay away from this man forever. Please do share"); and that's what I want to speak to now:

This is a really crucial phase. According to Dr. Harley as well as the marriage counselor my wife & I used, it generally tends to be pretty intense in the first 3 months after an affair is broken off, and especially in the first several weeks. That's the time when there's the greatest risk of an affair resuming.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that you can't ever have e-mail or social networking.

But the risks of contact with the affair-partner are so profound that the precautions that ought to be taken against such contact are indeed "extraordinary." Any contact with OM will spook your husband badly & will stir your own recollections of the affair, and will set your marital recovery clock back to Day 1. You really want to avoid that, even if it means going to extraordinary lengths. (Check out a thread started by HerPapaBear on "extraordinary precautions" -- here's the link -- lots of good stuff in here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2525926&page=1 .)

That's why it's suggested that you change your e-mail address. This doesn't mean you have to give up e-mail. Not at all. But you just get an address that OM doesn't even know. And you get a FB account jointly with your husband.

So you can still be open/transparent and make proper decisions on your new e-mail & FB accounts, just like you said; but with the added advantage that they'll be accounts that OM is less likely to horn in on.

That's going the extra mile -- as opposed to doing the minimum. If you perceive how hurt your husband is, then don't you want to go the extra mile to help him feel emotionally safe with you again?

You'll get some 2x4s here on these boards. All Wayward Spouses do. I sure did back when I showed up here in August'09, even though I was over 7 months into recovery at the time. But have a thick skin & you can learn from it. It's also good for you to hear from some of the Betrayed Spouses who post here. Their perspectives taught me that any betrayed spouse -- such as my wife -- or your husband -- is likely to be quite skeptical of a wayward spouse on occasion.

What I take from that is, because of our bad choices, we've given ourselves a higher bar to clear. We have to be & act better than just OK to dispel the skepticism & re-earn the trust, in installments, little by little. That's just the reality of the place we've put ourselves into.

So try not to take it personally when you ask for advice, then receive it, then disregard it or follow it only halfway, and then hear back from posters who wonder why you didn't take the good advice. Learn to question your own motivations. Learn to be a little less willing to trust your own thinking right now -- after all, your own thinking got you into an affair, right? Give your thinking time to improve. It can.

Just as your marriage can.

No one here wants to see you & your husband fail. The folks here are on your side. Really.

Please take seriously what they say -- many of them here have lived a whole world of suffering, and the only thing they get "paid" for posting here is the satisfaction of occasionally seeing another couple avoid some of what others have suffered or inflicted, as the case may be.

Hang in there. Keep posting & keep arguing & keep asking questions. It means you've got a chance. You have people rooting for you.




Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
And you get a FB account jointly with your husband.

So you can still be open/transparent and make proper decisions on your new e-mail & FB accounts, just like you said; but with the added advantage that they'll be accounts that OM is less likely to horn in on.


Fantastic idea. I would be bowled over if my wh came up with this because he wanted to deter contact from the other woman

Originally Posted by GloveOil
You have people rooting for you.

You really do! It is just so disappointing when WSs cant take the heat on here and just vanish. I do see a real desire in you to get out of the mud pie youve made, but we also need to see action. You CAN do it, so do it.

Last edited by indiegirl; 09/08/11 05:47 PM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by GloveOil
[
That's why it's suggested that you change your e-mail address. This doesn't mean you have to give up e-mail. Not at all. But you just get an address that OM doesn't even know. And you get a FB account jointly with your husband.

In addition to Gloveoil's excellent suggestions, I want to emphasize that you, HSL, are responsible for your own EP's. You can't use the excuse that your H does not see the value in it. You have to take the lead here and make it happen.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Quote
Go ahead think what you want. I know my intentions and am taking cues from my husband.
It doesn't matter what we think, Hope. Understand that you and your husband were/are in a marriage that has been rocked by adultery. You are not in a good place to navigate the course of your recovery. Both of you are currently in a place of minimizing the affair. You are enabling each other. The cues from your H are coming from a man who wants things to be okay.


D-Day 2-10-2009
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Thank you Marriage Builders!

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HSL,

I am one who is giving you some hell and the reason is that my ww came on here acted and said the same things as you are right now. She listened to these people and did what they recommended then bang no more! She was in contact with the om and that was the demise of our marriage. SHE NEVER ACTED!!!

AS a betrayed spouse I would've absolutely loved it if she would've been a big girl and deleted her accounts and changed her number. That is action and that would've shown me that she was SERIOUS. Never happened now look! Take a play out of my playbook.

Do it yourself! Your husband doesn't want to tell you what to do-he wants you to be an adult and realize what actions are important to make him feel secure and what is best for YOUR MARRIAGE!!!


Me-BH-39
WW-34 (Strugglingaz)
Married 7-dated 3 previous
D-10
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1st D-day-2-26-11 2nd D-day-5-17-11
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Spent the day cleaning, and put on some music. TRIGGER! Turns out that I've had my first experience of certain songs affecting me. I started feeling those feelings of withdrawal. Turned the music off. I have decided it is not a good idea to listen to music right now. I will not be putting Rhapsody on and looking up lyrics. That is something I used to find meaning in and today I heard some songs that affected me. It's hard to avoid music altogether because it is all around me, and it is just something I've always done...listen to music. But I am going to try to be conscious in if a certain song gets me in that way...and redirect myself and turn it off.

I also felt feelings this morning of boredom, overwhelmed at things that need to be done around the house, anxiety. I said some prayers and did some breathing. I made a list of behaviors I could take up if I am feeling vulnerable...also part of this list is things I want to work on with myself:

Playing and reading with my kids
Meditation
Prayers
Staying busy and not being Idle doing nothing
TV
Movies
Calling a friend or family member
Not dwelling on things
Reading books and material to better my marriage
Surrounding myself with positive and supportive people
Practicing openness and honesty-pushing myself out of the fear box
Addressing thoughts and feelings that are a window to old habits and patterns
Breathing
Organizing
Staying off of the computer-I was on it too much...but the past week I have really been making the effort to do other things...and it has been a lot less than pre-D-Day.
Exploring my hobbies that have taken a backburner.
Reading positive and inspirational quotes and articles
Identifying my weaknesses and patterns.


Things that I need to watch out for:
Boredom
Anxiety
Dwelling
Idleness
Certain music
Falling into unhealthy patterns

I did a lot of laundry today and just had lunch. The feelings I was feeling subsided...for the moment. I am telling myself and keeping in my forefront that they will be back I'm sure....I experienced them, and distracted myself at times, by being busy. Now at 12:30 PM I am feeling more in control again. I will probably take a nap and then do some more laundry. Boring, tedious, but it needs to be done.

I'm still on the fence about deleting Facebook....in all HONESTY. The day I confessed to my husband, I called the OM one last time to tell him that I told my husband all about him and that I was giving him all of my passwords, so he would be accessing my accounts freely, at any time. I told him I could not speak to him ever again, and not to try to contact me. He was upset, but agreed.
1) I have since deleted and blocked him from Facebook. I am on guard if he ever tries to contact me.
2) I promised my husband that I would tell him if he ever contacted me again.
3) My husband has my passwords and I am aware of that...I chose to GIVE him my passwords rather than him ask, because I wanted to have to be accountable. So if he does try to contact me, I wanted to have to feel compelled to be honest about it.
4) My husband wants to see that I am strong enough to face situations. I'm not hiding anybody that I've befriended on Facebook, or any contact between myself and another person anymore. He has said to me "why delete things unless you have something to hide?" I have hidden things in the past from him, and find it very important to do what it takes to be an open book with him.


I don't know why I am even bothering to lay out my rationale and even the beginning part of this post. I probably just gave another opportunity for people to pounce on me and disect and criticize my thoughts and actions. I'm hoping to find some support and encouragement for the things I AM doing right...if there are ANY things I'm doing right in your minds. I'm speaking from my heart, and with an honest and real depiction of what's going on in my mind. I may have been the betraying spouse...but I am still human and have emotions and feelings too. I am just as vulnerable as the next person EXPECIALLY after this experience. And was hoping to find some positivity and encouragement to the right path. I guess I have always been somewhat sensitive and if you can't deal with ALL different personality types...not just ones with thick skin, well then maybe I came to the wrong place.

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You did not come to the wrong place.

I am a WW who kept things (somewhat) the same for about a year after coming to the MB forum. And I consider myself to have been very "sincere" when I arrived here.

Now I am back-- and in a (somewhat) similar place in my marriage. If you don't want to be here next year saying the same things//still being emotionally affected the same way, you have to push yourself to make the necessary changes.


Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
2 lovely happy children

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Hi HSL, yes keeping busy, practicing openness etc are good things. I can give you some brownie points for those things if that is what you want.

But brownie points will not save your marriage.

All those good things, honesty and keeping busy, will disappear like smoke if OM contacts you.

All the work you've done to endure weeks of withdrawal will be totally wasted.

EVERY TIME CONTACT OCCURS THE CLOCK GETS PUT BACK TO DAY ONE OF WITHDRAWAL.

This is why everyone here is getting frustrated. No one wants to see you put days of effort in (and I think you would) for the OM to roll in and blow up all your efforts - do you see?

Cancelling Facebook and email is such a simple task in comparison! We are helping you not beating you with 2x4s for fun.

Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
1) I have since deleted and blocked him from Facebook. I am on guard if he ever tries to contact me.


You may be on guard, but your clock will still be re-set. The best case scenario is you saying 'no' then having to go through withdrawal again. You would have to do withdrawal over and over and that's the BEST case scenario. Much easier to just delete the d-d thing.

Plus - while it is possible for him to contact you YOU ARE WAITING. If you delete it, you will stop waiting, stop checking the computer and be much more peaceful.

Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
My husband wants to see that I am strong enough to face situations.


But you aren't. You must be brutally honest about this. You need to be protected from contact from the OM. Here you are cleaning up a storm to distract yourself and that's without contact. How much worse would you be if he did get in touch....

I realise your h doesnt want to hear you are vulnerable to this man, but you have already been honest about something he didnt want to hear - the affair. So keep going with that honesty. Tell him if the OM contacts you it will affect you. Ask for his help in keeping him away.

Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
but I am still human and have emotions and feelings too. I am just as vulnerable as the next person EXPECIALLY after this experience.


Yes you are vulnerable! You are going through very difficult withdrawal feelings! Please protect yourself and ask for hubbys help in this! Tell him a joint Facebook account should stop POSOM from contacting you ... and see what he says.


Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
I guess I have always been somewhat sensitive and if you can't deal with ALL different personality types...not just ones with thick skin, well then maybe I came to the wrong place.


Sensitivity is good. If you are sensitive to what's being said, you have an active conscience and want to make amends. Very good indeed.

Bottom line is HSL, that you have done good things. Such as coming clean with your h. I'm sure that was no picnic. But there is a forest fire headed towards your marriage in the form of OM and you MUST protect it.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by HopeSerenityLife
I'm still on the fence about deleting Facebook....in all HONESTY. The day I confessed to my husband, I called the OM one last time to tell him that I told my husband all about him and that I was giving him all of my passwords, so he would be accessing my accounts freely, at any time. I told him I could not speak to him ever again, and not to try to contact me. He was upset, but agreed.
1) I have since deleted and blocked him from Facebook. I am on guard if he ever tries to contact me.
2) I promised my husband that I would tell him if he ever contacted me again.

And again, this indicates a lack of seriousness when you place something so irrelevant such as facebook before your marriage. The fact that the OM CAN contact you that way and the fact that you CAN unblock him and see his page in 10 seconds makes this risky behavior.

This is a very basic extraordinary precaution that is being ignored for absolutely no reason.

The suggestion that you "promise" to tell your husband is silly. First off, telling your husband doesn't negate the destructive outcome of contact. If I "promise to tell" my husband when I go drunk driving dose it make drunk driving safe? Contact will be broken. And secondly, talk is meaningless. Sorry, but the promises of a wayward are about as meaningful as a fart.

When a wayward fights this hard to maintain an avenue of affair contact, that wayward is not serious. You need to get serious about affair proofing your marriage if you want to be taken seriously around here.

Quote
4) My husband wants to see that I am strong enough to face situations. I'm not hiding anybody that I've befriended on Facebook, or any contact between myself and another person anymore. He has said to me "why delete things unless you have something to hide?" I have hidden things in the past from him, and find it very important to do what it takes to be an open book with him.

Keeping open a very potential trigger is not a sign of "strength" but a sign of stupidity. Keeping facebook is risky behavior that threatens your marriage, so this is like me saying I am "strong enough to go drunk driving."

A person who is serious removes themselves from temptation, they don't continually expose themselves to it. So no, you are not serious at all.

The reason people are criticizing you is because you are making mistakes. No one is going to encourage you in making bad decisions. The people here are supportive, rather than enablers.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
EVERY TIME CONTACT OCCURS THE CLOCK GETS PUT BACK TO DAY ONE OF WITHDRAWAL.

...No one wants to see you put days of effort in (and I think you would) for the OM to roll in and blow up all your efforts - do you see?

Cancelling Facebook and email is such a simple task in comparison!

You may be on guard, but your clock will still be re-set. The best case scenario is you saying 'no' then having to go through withdrawal again. You would have to do withdrawal over and over and that's the BEST case scenario. Much easier to just delete the d-d thing.

Plus - while it is possible for him to contact you YOU ARE WAITING. If you delete it, you will stop waiting, stop checking the computer and be much more peaceful.


!!!

Perhaps, this could not have been said any better.


Me: WW
DH: BS
EA: 04/18/09 til
DDay: 06/30/10
NC letter: 09/13/11 (against DH's will)
2 lovely happy children

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