Surprisingly, I did actually get pretty deeply attached. I had dated a few other women before her, however I had never felt this immediate connection with anyone before, to include my ex. She had stated to me that she felt this way too, and that was before I said anything about how I felt about her.

I went into this 'dating relationship' hoping that she would compliment my life which has been going pretty well lately. Instead, she sort of became my life.

If I had a do-over, I would certainly have guarded my own heart a little better. I would not have shared quite so much about how I was currently feeling regarding 'us'. We definitely fed off each other and fueled the fires so to speak. Ended up burning out much too quickly.

I learned that what it is that I am truly seeking is that feeling of 'connectedness'. I learned that next time I should enjoy the intense feelings of a new relationship, however be a little more mysterious about sharing how I'm feeling. I was far too open and available and I suspect she no longer viewed me as a challenge or interesting enough possibly. She has told me that she wants to be friends now mainly because she didn't want to be in a committed relationship. We weren't in a committed relationship, however with the communicating daily and seeing each other whenever possible, we sure acted like it. I think that scared her a bit.

She is even more recently divorced than I am, so it's all a bit new to both of us. I will probably see her again in about a month and take her to dinner in 'friend' status. We have texted a couple times since our conversation. I'm moving on, but I would like to date her casually down the road if she is so inclined. I don't think she knows what she wants. I'm not really sure I do either, other than the connection and the feelings that come with intimacy (not just physical). I found that in her and she found that in me. I think it scared her off a bit because part of her doesn't want to date just one guy yet. Kind of funny because when we first started talking I told her she should date a 'bunch of guys' and see what she likes.

OK, this one may be a little 'blue', but you asked what I'd do differently. Next time I am physically intimate with someone that I really like, I will treat it like it's the last time we may have the opportunity to engage in sexual activity. I was taking things relatively slow thinking we would have plenty of time to continue to learn about each other physically.

Biggest take-away for me is that even if I feel like this may be 'love', to hold out for a while and be absolutely certain before going 'all-in'. I would give it more time and be sure that she felt the same way and that her actions matched her words.

Opt my brother! Great to see you too. You are right and I am starting to move past this, feeling better every day now. That is how I am looking at it too- I had an awesome two months sharing time with an incredible, hot 28 year old, lol. What's not to like? I've learned a bit from the experience and that's a good thing too. I can see now that she really probably isn't 'the one' for me, but it was real fun thinking that she might be for a while. The only regret was what I mentioned in my previous post, but it is really no-biggie. We had a lot of fun in that area too!

The boys are doing very well now. Things aren't perfect for them and they are still adjusting, but overall they are both much better. Custody arrangement is working out well too. Pinky lives 3/4 mile down the road so it is very convenient for both of us. She has become more involved with them and is getting better at showing some affection (from what I can tell). She is much more active than I with the dating, but has finally figured out to do her socializing when I'm SCHEDULED to have the boys. Works so much better for all of us.

Early on I had them 80-90% of the time. In the month of June she had them just a couple nights. Around mid-July she started following the schedule so it is much closer to 50/50. I still have to do some traveling for work and she takes them when I'm gone and 'pays me back' the time later. For example I was gone this week for work so in October I have them an additional week. In fact, I have them for like 21 days of the month. This month she will have them 16 days and me 14. Like I said, it's getting closer but the time scale still tips towards me, and that is just fine by me.

There have been some nights when one or both boys want to stay with me and she allows it. There was also two nights last month when she actually requested the boys to stay with her and I allowed as well. We really are working pretty well together.

Americajin, I believe you and a few others warned me that something like this would happen. I really was trying to guard against it. Like you, things just went into hyper-drive and now here I sit trying to figure it out, lol.

We really didn't directly talk about the "L" word, however we spoke it through music lyrics. I know, sounds very high school, but we are both into similar music and were talking about songs. There is this song by Lifehouse called "Falling in" that she said the lyrics matched what she was feeling. It really is a nice little song.

"Everytime I see your face
My heart takes off on a high speed chase
Now don't be scared, it's only love
That we're falling in
I would never do you wrong
Or let you down or lead you on
Don't look down, it's only love
Baby, that we're falling in

I'm standing in your driveway
It's midnight and I'm sideways
I have, to find, out if you feel the same
Won't be easy, have my doubts too
But it's over, without you I'm just lost, incomplete
Yeah you feel like home, home to me "

So in my head I took that as she was telling me she felt like she was falling in love with me. I was a goner after that, lol. I did intend to keep things light for at least 4-6 months however I completely lost interest in anyone else. Things just spun out of control much too quickly until she got scared by it. I suspect she still has strong feelings too, but I think it best to back way off for about a month and then see where we are at.

I do fully understand what you are saying about some women looking for a provider only, however I think they are pretty easy to recognize. That has not been the case with any of the women I have met, to include this one. She is very self sufficient.

Thanks AGG. Like I was saying earlier, I really thought I was protecting myself from falling for the first person to treat me nicely. In fact, she was my 4th multiple date partner. I managed quite well with the first 3.

I should add that she finally did call me later in the afternoon on the 22nd. She was a bit busy, but also was clearly avoiding. The whole maturity thing. I politely let her know that with me, or anyone else in the future, that type of behavior is not a good thing. I told her that bad news doesn't get better with age. She did apologize for whatever that's worth.

You are absolutely right and that is the main thing I have learned- to protect my own heart better. We have minimized contact and I will not be contacting her myself for about a month. I have to travel to Chicago at the end of next month and when we talked we said we would go out for dinner. This will also allow me to pick up my stuff and return hers. She texted me earlier today and I replied and it was all friendly and light. I will not make first contact but will reply if she does.

Fred, I'm sorry to say your post sounds a bit sad to me. You were right about the not knowing being worse than the break up itself. Fortunately it didn't take that long to hear from her.

Why do you think you have lost interest in the 'search'? Even with it's ups and downs I have found it to be an enjoyable experience overall. It is hard, especially with the boys, but it certainly keeps life interesting for me. I feel more engaged with life when I'm talking to others or dating.

Like you said perfectly, no risk- no reward. Hang in there brother.

Thanks Lexxy. Always nice to hear from you!

Point taken about not going all-in and taking more time to really evaluate the LTR potential. This was what I intended to do, but we said things to each other that made us act as if we were already there, ya know? I see that now and won't make the same mistake. I hope anyway!

Have not seen the movie but will try to now. That is sort of funny about your daughter. Hope she move on.

Schoop, I tend to fall in with Opt and Scotty on this one. She did catch me at a very weak moment literally. She had called me about 90 minutes after I received the text from my girl and I was in a bad spot in my head.

The more I think about it the more I don't like that it happened. I do think she was well intentioned, but there is still just way too much between us for me to feel comfortable sharing anything meaningful with her as it relates to me personally. She lost that right. And frankly, I really don't care how she is doing emotionally with her dating and moving on. As long as it doesn't affect her ability to care for my boys when they are with her.

Hey, _SOL. Sad? I don't feel sad about my current status, other than I wish I had full-time employment, and health care that would allow me to get my back/leg fixed so I could run carefree again.

Right now, dating for me would seem forced and contrived. I think that I'm better off just not putting too much "thought investment" into it, and if someone comes along that lights things up, well, we'll just see how things go then.

Thanks for your reply, _SOL.

SOL, when you come on here and start making noises about getting serious and contemplating marriage, we'll start having a discussion about what it's like getting married again and having your new spouse start telling you how you should be interacting with your kids and their mother - among other things. I wish I had found this site several decades ago and read the section on POJA until the print faded, would have saved me some difficult times in my life. Before you even think of remarrying, you need to POJA EVERYTHING in your future relationship before saying I do. If your prospective spouse can't/won't do that, don't get married.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, just because someone says "I love you" doesn't require you to respond in kind with an "I love you too". You can say some variation of "I really have more than superficial feelings for you but am uncertain if I am ready to say I love you to anyone. Why don't we keep seeing each other and see how things go?" If it is real, the person won't go away; if it isn't the denouement will be swift and inexorable.

Don't be in an all fired hurry to find the next Mrs SOL. What's the old saw, act in a hurry, repent at your leisure? Dating doesn't come with the implied promise of marriage. And don't be so sure about being able to recognize someone who is dating under false pretenses. There are women out there with plans so detailed that they rival an op order for an overseas unit deployment. Playing it slow does expose them when your relationship isn't hitting key milestones in an efficient military manner.

Practical hand-on experience has made me somewhat cynical, but sometimes cynicism is a good thing. It makes you be certain not only of your partner's motives, but also your own, makes you question yourself and see things for how they really are instead of simply how you want them to be. Partnered with patience, it enables you to determine what it is that you really want and not settle for less just because less is standing right in front of you.

Duly noted, however I have no intentions of remarrying anytime soon. I am in no hurry whatsoever to find the next Mrs. SOL. I had intended to date casually for a couple years and was managing quite well until the latest girl. Left me trying to figure out what the heck happened and I think I did.

Good point about not reciprocating the emotions too. I did 'feel' it though. I see now what was going on. I guess it's called "Fast Forwarding" in dating. Very interesting dynamic. Here is the article on it and it is exactly what happened to me. I got swept away in it.

Fast Forward

Live and learn.

SOL!

So you found Natalie's site! Good for you! She really tells it like it is...kind of a British version of Melodylane! I found her site shortly after my first serious post-D relationship ended. The guy was and is a true AC as Natalie calls him. (He periodically texts me asking to "hook up" or making lewd comments about my undergarments....he does this knowing that I am engaged to be married....and having just become engaged himself! What a jerk!)

Reading the articles on Natalie's site really helped me learn a lot about myself, dating and the kind of no-good guys I was attracted to both before I married WXH and after our D. I am now engaged to and very much in love with a man who is nothing like the Mr. Unavailables and AC's described on Baggage Reclaim. I would never have given him a second thought before Baggage Reclaim but after reading there, see what a real relationship is and how different it truly is.

Keep reading there...is very educational!

So do you think you fastforwarded her or she you?

Its not that hard to figure out really.

Its like being really thirsty, when you finally get a drink -- its hard not to gulp it!

You spent the last several years having your most important needs ignored. So finally a gal comes along who's interested and willing to meet them. Its hard to hold back and tell her to just meet a few of them slowly...

And you're "that" kind of guy. Not into the meaningless need-meeting. So it must be love, right?

Sorry, SOL, it was predictable...hehehe

Brit, that was a very easy to understand article. I haven't read anything else on there yet though, but I will now that you so highly recommend it. Plus I need to go back there and figure out what an "AC" guy is. I will read on, thanks.

SW- She clearly Fast Forwarded me initially. She fit so many of those 'warning signs'.


On our second date she told me she thought I was 'the one'. She definitely made me feel like I was the center of her universe. She initiated talk of future plans/activities together. I think I shared earlier just how 'intense' this was feeling. We became sexually intimate on our third date.

In short order, I think I started doing it too. In my own defense, it was an incredible ego-boost to be desired and pursued by a 28 year old hottie!! I lost my grip on reality and got swept away with it all, just like the article said. I started buying into what she was telling me and we both talked about how strange it was to feel so connected to someone in such a short time. She talked about moving closer and changing jobs. I was just like, "hell yeah, this is great!"

I had some reservations but all too easily pushed them back in my head. Like Lexxxy says, it really was predictable and I was ripe for this kind of reaction. Add my own 'thirst' to her behavior, and I was a goner! Then it sort of ended last week as quickly as it started. I figure she either found a new target, or as the article suggests, panicked about not being able to live up to the behavior she was showing for the long term. I have to say that it was the best time I've had in many, many years though. I really was the happiest guy on earth for a little while. I still feel pretty good too.

Now that I've had a little time to look back and critically look at what happened, I can see that we fit into this Fast Forward thing. Makes me feel a whole lot better to understand the dynamics instead of doubting myself once again thinking I had done something wrong here. What had troubled me most was I knew I was still a little vulnerable to female attention and went into this thinking to be on guard and take it slow. I needed to understand how and why I was unable to. I think I get it now.

So now as I go forward from here, I really want to talk to her about what happened and why. Not in a way to try to continue our relationship, although I wouldn't mind continuing to date her now and then. I have known her for a while and she really is a sweet girl. I want to try to share this information with her so that we both may learn from it as we go forward. I think it would help her with future relationships as well because I don't think she is aware of what she was doing. I know this will be tricky, and I am not pursuing her or contacting her at all. I will wait for her to contact me again. We will talk again soon though. She is going on a cruise with a friend next week and I plan to tell her to have a good time and that when she gets back we should talk. As Americajin would understand, I want to AAR what happened with her! I think we would both benefit from a good conversation about it, without any expectations of 'us' having a future together outside of friendship.

We'll see how it goes. Until then, I have a date tomorrow night. I'll be ok.

This is interesting how you state this -- I am curious, if a woman is self sufficient (especially sans children) wouldn't that possibly make her want more of a provider in a man? This leaves her the option of being a stay at home mom.

What makes a provider only easy to recognize? This woman being 28, her ovaries are ticking. Did she discuss more kids? HOw does one handle this in dating. If a divorced man has kids and his new girlfriend none, what makes her want this man if half his salary goes to the ex-spouse? I would think many young women in their twenties and early thirties would have these exact thoughts.

Tough

Everytime I read something here about 'watch out for those women looking for a provider' I feel my spine stiffen. What is wrong with wanting a provider? In fact, it is listed as one of the top 10 ENs.

I guess if you happen to be a man who doesn't WANT to have to provide for a woman, then you better be really up front about that.

And if you are a woman who never wants children and plans to work at your own job/career for the rest of your life, then great! That kind of man will appeal to you.

So therefore, what appears to be more important is the level honesty. A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Or you could have a single mom without an income to speak of who is very upfront regarding her desire to find a man who is capable of supporting her and her kids. It doesn't mean she won't be a good mate.

I just wish we could change the wording--instead of 'watch out for those single moms who might (gasp) NEED something from you, how about 'watch out for dishonesty.'

Rant over.

Excellent point SW. It IS about the dishonesty when you come right down to it, and not whether or not somebody is looking for a partner to help provide.

I think where this main issue is coming from when americajin brought it up is that there is a specific group of women that actually target military guys as a way 'out' of their present situation. Many military posts are located in or near economically challenged towns. Near every post main gate you will see scores of pawn shops, 'title loan' places, tattoo parlors, liquor stores, and strip clubs.

Many of these communities exist solely on the economy from the local base. There are countless businesses that take advantage of young Soldiers. Likewise, there are some people that view hooking up with a Soldier as a way out of their town. At basic training we are warned about being careful about this. It still happens. They don't really love the Soldier, they just know that he gets a steady paycheck.

I have no issues with a woman looking for somebody to meet the EN of financial security. Especially if they are struggling and have children. What I do have issues with is if that is the only thing they are looking for and use dishonesty to get it. I have not encountered someone like this myself, but I do know some guys who have been taken advantage of in this regard. For example, one guy I deployed with fell in love and got married shortly before the deployment. When he left he gave his wife legal power of attorney to handle things while he was gone. When he got home, there was another family living in his house. His wife had sold his house, took everything he had and was pregnant with another man. This stuff does happen.

When I said they are 'easy to recognize', I was referring to some women's profiles on online dating sites.

To answer your questions Tough, we did discuss future plans about children. She told me she had no desire to have children of her own, however liked kids. Just didn't want to go through pregnancy. In fact, she told me it was an issue in her previous marriage because she told her ex that before they ever got married and yet after marriage he was pushing her to have children. I'm not sure what goes through the woman's mind on the other end of things. I suspect that financial security is one of many things that end up being discussed before you progress to a LTR. In my own case, my ex does not get 'half' my salary. I'm doing OK financially. Not great, but ok.

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Everytime I read something here about 'watch out for those women looking for a provider' I feel my spine stiffen.

Well, you might want to get out the old BenGay before reading this one.

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Or you could have a single mom without an income to speak of who is very upfront regarding her desire to find a man who is capable of supporting her and her kids. It doesn't mean she won't be a good mate.

This is the equivalent of a guy being upfront saying he wants a woman to keep his house clean and have sex whenever he needs it. How many women are going to jump at a prize like this? He may be husband of the year material for all we know, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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I guess if you happen to be a man who doesn't WANT to have to provide for a woman, then you better be really up front about that.

I would be very upfront about that. A man wants a woman that loves him for who he is as a person (as I imagine most women would also) not for his ability to make enough money so that the woman could stay home and not work. As a young man, I would want to first have a woman that loves me for me and that I love in return. Then we can start contemplating marriage and building a life together, plan out common goals as to having children, how many and when. How we are going to raise those children, where we will live, how much money do we both agree that we will need and how to get it. Those goals may or may not call for the wife to work, they may allow for a woman to be a SAHM, depends on a lot of factors.

The primary relationship in the marriage is the husband and wife, and I think that too many people lose sight of this. A man wants to work to support his family, and by work, I don't just mean what provides a paycheck. The two partners should be working at ensuring the partnership survives, that it is the primary goal in the marriage, instead of the children being the primary relationship. That is why divorce is sky-high now and that women are the ones who file the majority of divorces, because the primary relationship is NOT between man and wife it is between wife and children. Once children are born, for some women the husband is no longer important except as a source of income to allow the women to stay at home with her children. If the marriage fails, it's ok because the courts will give her sufficient money to keep those children on her own, at least until she can find another man to fulfill the role as provider.

Are we talking about finding a man that you can love for the rest of your life, or are we talking about finding a caretaker, someone who can pay for a woman to stay at home and have children. That�s not a loving relationship, it�s a job. A provider - can't begin to tell you how much I dislike that term. When I (and many other men) hear a woman describe her husband and the first thing (and sometimes ONLY thing) that comes out of her mouth is that he�s a good provider, then I know that the woman does not love her husband for who he is as a person. He�s not a husband per se, he�s an employee. He�s not an equal loving partner, he�s a life support system, he�s there to support the woman so that she doesn�t have to do it herself.

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A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Thank you, you hit the nail right on the head here. You see women who post here from time to time that will say that they married their husband for the wrong reason and that they never really loved him, and a lot of people here will say that it is just a WS reinventing marital history. I disagree, I think that there are probably quite a few women who get married to someone that they don�t love because they weren�t particularly interested in what kind of soulmate they would be but rather someone with a chance for a successful and lucrative career so that the wife doesn�t have to work. They get married and go on to have kids, and after that �SURPRISE- they find that they don�t want to be with a husband they don�t love, so they start cheating, get caught and divorced, and the poor duped husband is now paying a lot of money in child support for kids that he sees every other weekend. All because he was duped into believing that his wife loved him. Ever see a guy marry someone that said straight up �I don�t love you�? Of course not. So what happens is the woman lies and suckers him into marrying her so she doesn�t have to support herself. If you marry someone that doesn�t love you from the get go, how can you expect it to ever work? Men understand this, hell it�s a crapshoot even when you DO love each other, but some women will marry men that they don�t love because of money or a desire to have someone take care of them.

Look, I know you're not going to ever agree with me. What may be interesting is to show your husband this thread and get his opinion of what both you and I have written. I'll bet a pretty interesting conversation ensues.

Good. Then a woman who has that need would not waste her time considering you as a potential mate.


Well of course life happens. Men lose their jobs or get hurt and maybe I will have to go to work someday. Just like women sometimes have medical issues that make sex impossible or they get sick and can't clean the house the way she once did.


You said a lot of stuff in the above paragraphs....Wanting
financial support does not equal any of that....it doesn't mean a woman will put the children first, it doesn't mean she doesn't love her husband and it doesn't mean they aren't equal partners. I just means she has identified her needs and relayed that information to him. Just as he should do.

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A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Again, what you are describing is dishonesty. THAT is the problem. And that character flaw has nothing to do with knowing and relaying your emotional needs.


I will show it to him. You might be surprised.

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On our second date she told me she thought I was 'the one'. She definitely made me feel like I was the center of her universe. She initiated talk of future plans/activities together. I think I shared earlier just how 'intense' this was feeling. We became sexually intimate on our third date.

You don't need an after action report, SOL. You just need to know that you dodged a big bullet here. She sprung the ambush too soon as you weren't in the kill zone and you were able to get through it with no casualties. Lesson learned.

I'm going to tell you something else. You have sex with either this woman, or someone else that tells you you're the one after a week or so, you'd best be supplying your own contraception and (sorry for being graphic here folks) ensuring you are disposing of your genetic material by flushing it down the toilet afterwards, not putting it in the trash can, etc, where it could be retrieved afterward.

I knew a guy once that had a girlfriend that he was thinking of breaking up with but was unsure of what he wanted to do. He asked a friend (not me) for advice. He stayed with the girl. They had sex at her place instead of his apartment which was their usual spot; she had already told him she was on the pill and they routinely used condoms as a fail-safe, fortunately she had some at her place. Well she got pregnant. We all thought that was really strange as they were using two forms of birth control, but he said it was just a freak accident, didn't suspect his girlfriend at all

That was the deciding factor for him, he did what he thought was the right thing and married her. What a disaster the marriage was. I ended up PCSing out of the unit.

Later, his wife had a falling out with a friend. The friend told the husband that back before they got married, his aforementioned friend had talked to his then-girlfriend to see if he could save the relationship. He did this because he thought his friend was just confused as to what he wanted to do and he was going to help his buddy. The girlfriend panicked because she really wanted to marry this guy, and so she punched several holes with a pin through the middle of the wrapper of the condom, and made sure she was the one that opened it and put it on him. It didn't break and he was none the wiser. Then the friend dropped the other shoe - his girlfriend was never on the pill. Needless to say, that was the final nail in the coffin for their marriage. I found out from a friend I'd kept in touch with. I won't bore you with what happened in court.

The moral of this story is - use your own condoms SOL, so you don't ending up being the "one" both literally and figuratively.