Well I decided to start a thread here. Was torn between this forum and Divorcing forum. Decided to post where my interest and focus currently is! I am excited and unsure about dating again at the same time and i currently dont have any issues or concerns with my divorce. I suspect I may post about divorce issues as they arise too, but I will try to stay on topic.

Brief introduction for those that don't know me is linked below to my "update post" on SAA forum. My old thread was Want New Start - She Doesnt and I was "SickofLimbo". Changed my nam to LimboNoMore and again to plain old SOL. Have to come up with a new meaning, but I digress...

So I got legally divorced a month ago. Our final settlement is in the lawyer's hands and we are just waiting for a court date. Should be about 2 weeks. We are still living in my house together, and she should move out in about a month. Sounds worse than it is at this point. I had really started detaching last July and after dealing with this for 2 years and about 18 months of plan A, all love is gone. We have divorced civilly, and are cordial and working together to finalize the last steps.

I really wanted to start dating about 6 months ago, and wisely listened to the folks telling me I wasn't ready. Over the last two months I have really thought about whether or not I'm ready. I believe I am, but understand I need to take it slow and set some ground rules. The most important one is that dating should not interfere or take precedence of time with my boys. No meeting the boys until they are ready, and I see that taking a very long time.

I have dipped my toes in dating recently and was talking to a very nice woman for a while, but I think I already became too emotionally attached way too soon. I hear that is typical. Probably over reacted to someone being nice to me. Wasn't prepared for my own feelings and how to deal with them. Hope to do better next time. Another reason to post here- I really don't know what I'm doing as I haven't dated in 17 years, and even then, didn't do a whole lot of it. I did start a profile on Match.com as a way to meet single women. I don't drink or go to bars unless with a group, so the bar scene is out. All of my close friends are married too, so I figured to give the online thing a shot.

I had to figure out what it is I want to do here too. I'm not really looking for a long term committed relationsip. At least not right away. I really haven't dated many women in my life and think I need to meet many different women to really find out what I like and don't like. I figure as long as I'm totally honest and up front, I should be ok and not hurt anyone. I'm also just looking to get a social life and more friends can't hurt either. I know it sounds selfish, but for now it's where I'm at regarding goals of dating anyway. My problem is I have always been a one girl at a time type of guy and need to figure out how to date without being exclusive. Again, I think honesty all the way around will be key.

I believe I have grieved the loss of the marriage and all the joys that come with it, but I understand feelings may come back once I'm truly alone in my house on a week Pinky has the boys. I suspect the biggest challenge will be trying to find balance in my life again. Balancing time and attention between my boys, my family, my friends, my work, as well some time to just be alone, without feeling lonely. For so long now I have been entirely focused on trying to save my marriage and better myself at the same time. At least the latter seems to have had some results.

That's it for starters anyway. I look forward to reading and learning as I go forwards with my "new start."

SOL's Recap

SOL I never posted to you but followed your heartbreaking story and I'm so glad you've come out the other side.

I hope you can take some more time to heal before looking for another relationship, as tempting as that can be. You're probably a sitting duck for a rebound relationship right now. When you're ready though, with what you've learned here, what a great husband you'll make for some lucky lady.

I'm hoping AGG will come along and give you some of his always wise advice.

And please don't hold anything against me because I'm from Australia!

SOL,
I haven't read your story yet, but I'm glad you're finally making it to the other side...that of a fresh start and healing. You are wise to realize you shouldn't see someone exclusively and that you need to get to know many before you can realize what you want or don't want. This is a pretty laid back place to be, all of us moving at our own pace and discovering/learning together. It's certainly more comfortable than the infidelity section!
You are wise, also, to put your boys first and consider their needs. That said, welcome, and I hope this next phase of your life is more enjoyable!

I looked for your story and can't find it, can you post a link to it? Thanks!

Kay-

Thank you for the nice welcome. I would love to link to my thread but it was archived/killed for security reasons. I think after my settlement is completely finished I will ask that it be found and moved back to SAA. It was HUGE!!! Did my link to my update post work? I tried to give the short version of a very long, crazy story. I think I'll just copy that post into here anyway to give some idea of my story.

I saw where you said it was killed, but I thought you just meant you changed your name...no wonder I couldn't find it anywhere!

It's a shame, really, because others could learn from your experience. Thanks for letting me know!

I like LimboNoMore. That's my vote.

I consider us "brothers in arms," _SOL, Stuck or LNM, however you choose to call yourself.

As I mentioned a bit earlier, I'm ahead of you on the divorce front. But I've only just started dating, and like the others, I caution you about jumping in too soon.

You can read my thread here ("The Art of the First Date") for some of my questions and experiences. Speaking of which, I need to post an update...

Welcome aboard. Again.

Thanks Fred, and I already have read your new thread here. Appreciate it. I'm starting to think I may not be quite ready to jump out there yet, although plenty eager. I'll take it slow and will at least wait until after my ex moves out!

That's a good point. I think I will contact the Mods and see if it can be 'restored' and brought back to the SAA area. The thing makes Homer seem like a short read though, LOL.

Welcome back SOL.

You're right. Your thread was of epic length. Glad to see that you're coming out on the other side, and in such good form!

Hi. Welcome to the fun section. Okay, that doesn't sound quite right, but this forum is a lot less intense. Most people have tried and tried and are moving on.

About dating. I think it's a good idea to wait a reasonable amount of time. Just don't wait until you are "absolutely ready" because that never quite comes. Some of the issues from your old relationship can't be really dealt with until you are in another romantic relationship. The key is to be strong enough to change your reaction, and also strong enough to walk away if the relationship goes south. And have fun!

I've got some initial thoughts on where I'm at with the whole idea of dating and my future. Figured some of you may have gone through the same thought process so I wanted to post.

I think this discussion is very helpful to me and I appreciate it. I do have a lot of uncertainty for my future and I'm simply trying to figure out what it is I really want, and it changes day to day. I really don't think I should get into a long term committed relationship for probably about 4 years. Learned last week that I'm heading back to Afghanistan in about 24 months. The year before I go will be insane again with long hours and lots of travel. Obviously I'll be gone for a year on deployment, and then there is the adjustment back home again after I get back. That leaves me with just this next year in front of me for a 'normal' existence.

I can't imagine it's a good idea to become committed and then have to deal with being absent for so long. Not fair to potential partner, and would also be harder on me. I figured this was coming soon, but I was hoping it would be 2014 instead of 2013. Still feel like I haven't been able to 'enjoy' being back with all the drama and changes I've been going through. Just trying to take it a day at a time and not worry too much about the future, but wanted to let you know because it does factor into my decisions about dating and what not.

Let me try to explain where I'm at in my head and heart. It's not that I want to see what the dating world is really like. From what I hear, it sounds like it can be a lot of fun and a pain in the [censored] at the same time too. It's actually fairly intimidating to me and I would think full of a lot of rejection. What I am not trying to do is 'interview' for a potential future wife, although I DO wish to find someone for a long-term down the road. I do need to think on that some more.

The ink isn't even dry on my divorce and I still am waiting for the final settlement to go forward. Should be a week or two. Pinky still lives in my house and will for a few weeks after the final settlement is signed in court. I feel I need some time to actually live on my own again, and enjoy being single. Not just in the dating sense, but more so in just being OK with being by myself on the weeks I don't have the boys. I need to continue to work on myself and rediscover what MY own real interests are. I have been living as a 'couple' for the past 17 years and have lost so much of who I am. I need to find that out again, and I need to do that on my own.

I have lived through some extremely high stress situations almost continuously for the past 4 years. Between the stress of pre-deployment and the strain my work and training put on my marriage before I left, through the actual deployment and living for 12 months in a combat zone in the most dangerous place on the planet, and then dealing with the uncertainty and betrayal/infidelity from the one I loved and trusted most in the world, and also fighting desperately to save that marriage for a very long time, I am fried. I am emotionally spent. Then I get home, fight this affair, and start a new career as an officer to include Officer Candidate School which is pretty high stress in and of itself.

Then I deal with the divorce and preparing for a potentially brutal custody battle, along with trying to take care of my boys the best way I can while there own mother essentially abandons them. It's taken all I have to try to hold things together with them. I haven't had much time to really digest everything in solitude. You can't imagine the relief I feel knowing that I'm divorced and will be on my own. (Well, maybe you can.) I just need a break, ya know? The last thing I want to do right now is jump into another committed relationship and not have truly recovered on an individual basis. I know I need to be whole myself before I can fully share with another. But that doesn't mean I can't keep things light and try to have fun with friends, AND single women. I think I'm looking for some female companionship, with or without SF, to enjoy some activities together and just have a good time.

One other thing I wanted to touch on quickly (I'm at work and should be working!!). I appreciate the care and concern from all of you. I just want to say that I really feel very good lately. I really am content, and dare I say, "Happy"? I think it is more than just the relief of the battle being over. I will not be one to sit around feeling sorry for myself and definitely not 'cry in my beer' lol. I think I really have reached the point of true indifference and view Pinky only as my boys' mom.

I think I'm still a bit sad in general terms because I know that this MB stuff could have worked if only she were willing to look into it with me. It's just a shame, but I realize I did all I could do and have no regrets. Going forward, the D was the only option and it has actually worked out fairly, all thinigs considered. Now if I can just get Pinky out of my house! Even that will come shortly. She should be telling her lawyer that she agrees with the settlement, and then we should hopefully be in court next week to finalize. Then I take the documents to the mortgage company and hopefully close a week after that. Then she legally has 2 weeks to move out. She is currently actively working to find a place and i don't expect her to drag her feet. If it takes a little longer for her to move, so be it. As long as she is doing all she can to make it happen. I think she wants to move almost as bad as I want her out. I want her gone more for myself to just get the 'feel' of my new life and some alone time. It's not because of anything she is doing or not doing that is affecting me.

I don't think I hate her, but I have zero feelings towards her. I am nowhere close to forgiving and probably will never really forgive, but I'm not spiteful or angry either. I wouldn't say I'm resentful either. Really do feel indifferent. I really want her to be successful and stable so she can be a better mom for my boys. I do admit I don't want her to be happy, I just don't want her downfall to negatively affect the boys causing more damage to what she has already done.

So I'm not really sure how much more "healing" I need. I at least feel healed and I am so much more happy now. Still need to work on patience and I'm getting better with that. Another thing that I've noticed is trying to get used to the new 'pace' of my life. I have been living in high-stress situations for the last 4 years and now things have just slowed down. And that is great, but I'm trying to find out how to just relax and enjoy relative peace and serenity. I like it, but it's taking some getting used to.

SOL,
How old are your kids? Who will have them when you are deployed? You mention your wife abandoning them so I'm concerned about custody when you're gone...do you think she'll give them the full time/attention they'll need? Will she parade one man after another around them? Will your parents have them? I think you're right to give it plenty of time and definitely not rush into anything. It takes time to know ourselves and what we want and some of us might find we don't want someone in our lives after all! Keep it light, don't have an exclusive relationship, it'd be good to "hang out" and be friends with both sexes...

WOW! Taht has to be one of the MOST mature, well thought out, least shelfish things I've seen written on this site by someone newly divorced.

Nough said.

Kay, I saw your email but until tonight I've been swamped.

Kay, I have two boys, 8 and 11. Per the agreement, she will get them for the year. We have addressed the issues and she will allow my family access to the boys while I'm gone too. I have a great relationship with her parents and sister still and I know they will be watching out for them too. She did abandon them in a sense, but not legally. She left the country for 2 months to go spend time with her affair partner. Me and the boys knew she was going and when she was coming back. Boys told her they didn't want her to go, but she did anyway. She has since said she will never leave for over two weeks again.

My family and hers would both be willing to take them if needed. I don't think she will bring men around them for quite a while. We have discussed this at length and agree that we both have to be extremely careful with them going forward.

Thank you GreenGables!

Well it sounds like you've covered your basis...the most important thing is that the boys continue to have good care and support.

I have really gotten a lot out of this site thinking on my near term future, and I appreciate it all. Some very well thought out posts both for and against dating right now. I tend to think I am ready to start, but I'm not in any hurry. I do see the argument to wait and recover fully and become whole as well. I don't think I'm all the way there yet, but I am pretty darn close. At least in my own head.

I think I am ready to date and I'm excited about the idea, but not in a big hurry either. I'm also OK with keeping to myself for the time being too. Sure, I've looked around a bit on the dating websites, but really just looked. I haven't contacted anyone nor do I plan to until Pinky moves out.

I really do feel indifferent about Pinky. I gave it my all and it didn't work. We have been divorced for over 6 weeks now. Final settlement should be a week from today. I'm starting to move on. She moved on over a year ago. I'm not hurting nor have regrets. I simply look forward to her not being in my home anymore. She has gone out on a couple dates through Match. Last one was Friday night. I find it mildly amusing at just how odd it is now that we truly are living as roomates, but there is no jealousy and I'm not even interested in what she does or where she goes. As long as it doesn't touch the boys and so far it hasn't.

I'm relatively happy with where I'm at right now. It didn't work out to be the best possible outcome for everyone, but as far as divorces go, it worked out fairly well for me and my boys. I'm excited about my future and look forward to starting the model railroad hobby with the boys and finishinig my basement remodeling project once Pinky moves and gets her 'stuff' out of my house so I can begin. I'm also excited about meeting new people and starting a social life, to include doing more with my male friends too. Since I've been home, all my time and just about every weekend has been centered around my boys as it should be. I'm simply saying that I'm ok with the fact that she will have the boys every other week and that will free up every other weekend for me to do something with friends, potential dates, or just spend some time by myself working around the house. I don't currently feel 'driven' to go out and date and I think that is probably a good sign too.

Pinky tried to get financed for a home loan last week. Reality, meet Pinky...Pinky, this is reality. There is no way she can get a house but she did find a very nice 3 BDRM townhome about 1.5 miles down the road from my house. She is giving the security deposit this week and will be moved out within 30 days at the latest. I can't wait!!

I understand that although I feel recovered currently, that I probably still need to work through some stuff. Just not sure what that 'stuff' may be! I suspect feelings may come up once she is truly out of my house and for the most part my life. I'm prepared to deal with it if it happens.

So like my friend Linus and others recently divorced, I think I'm ready. I'm not looking for a long-term committed relationship. I'm not totally opposed to it, but it is not something I'm seeking. I'm just looking for a little female companionship to spend some time together having fun doing things. If it leads to sex, Great!! But it is not my goal here. All good things will come in time. I will be honest with anyone and won't play games. I will also guard my own heart a little bit and take things slowly. My own personal dating will be kept far apart from my boys and only be conducted on the weekends I don't have them.

My new favorite tune is "Diamond Eyes" by Shinedown. Great song worthy of cranking up to 11 on the volume. I like how the lyrics can be taken literally, as in feelings/emotions of combat, or more symbolicly as in facing a challenge and seeing things a little more clearly afterwards. I really like that. Here is the main chorus:

"Out on the front line
dont worry I'll be fine
the story is just beginning

I say goodbye to my weakness
so long to the regret
and now I see the world through diamond eyes"

I'll post a youtube link later if I can.

OK, as promised here is that song I mentioned. I love it. I think Scotty would too. Enjoy.

I really like the chorus lyrics as they can be applied to so many things:

"Out on the front line
dont worry I'll be fine
the story is just beginning

I say goodbye to my weakness
so long to the regret
and now I see the world through diamond eyes"

There is a 'cooler' video on youtube as a tribute to the military. Most of the footage is a little dated, but the first firefight filmed in night vision is pretty cool to see. Here it is.

Good to hear from you, SOL.

Sounds to me like you are right where you should be in adjusting to life after marriage, even ahead of most.

You are correct in that even if you didn't realize it, you began the withdrawal and detachment process quite a while ago as you watched Pinky withdraw further into her shell, then across the ocean. We who followed your thread could sense you changing from fighting for your marriage because you loved her, to just fighting for the sake of the fight itself.

Anyway, there are merits to both waiting a while longer to date and just jumping in. I didn't jump into it the second my ex-wife moved out, but after three months of lonely weekends alone (when I didn't have the boys) and one or two extremely unsatisfying nights at bars and pubs, I decided to dip my toes back into the dating world.

Be careful, we are still more vulnerable than you think and apt to latch on too quickly and tightly to the first person who shows a little affection. I am the exception, the first person I went out with turned out to be more than I could have imagined and we are tighter than ever and extremely happy after 6 months. But, that is the exception, not the rule. It's far easier for the first infatuation to be too much too soon and for one or both to get hurt in the end. I'm not saying it happens everytime or is a reason not to jump back in, just know what you are potentially getting into. I am fortunate the way my relationship is turning out, but looking back I can see just how vulnerable I was.

Keep your guard up, but don't be too closed. I went into it thinking I would just date around for the foreseeable future, but things change quickly once a relationship starts developing.

Agree also about insulating your dating from the children. For sure you don't want to introduce them to anyone too early or show them a revolving door of partners, but you can't live two separate lives either if you meet someone you like to spend a lot of time with.

Opt and I have experience on when and how to introduce the kids, will be glad to share my experiences when the time comes up.

One last thing, be prepared for some guilt to rise to the surface as you begin to date. And I'm not talking about guilt from old feelings about Pinky, I'm talking about guilt that you are somehow taking away from what you give your boys. You have been totally devoted to them through this whole ordeal, and the thought of wanting to do everything you can as a parent to be there for them has taken a ton of energy. Now you are doing something entirely for yourself and it will feel a little weird at times. Don't succumb to this guilt. You KNOW what a good father you are and that you can do for yourself AND be there for them.

Heya SOL --

You might want to put more focus on your interests rather than on dating.

This will be a great time to develop some hobbies that you never had time for before. And you might find someone with similar interests as a companion.

After my divorce, I started playing hockey. I met lots of fun people, and have a whole new circle of friends. At the time, it kept me busy, out of the house, and not thinking about missing the kids.

Hiya Lexxxy. I think you are right and I'm trying to do so. That's what I meant when I posted earlier about being excited to just 'do stuff', that I want to do. Wheter it's by myself, with my guy friends, or with a possible date. The main thing right now is just getting Pinky out so I can have some time for myself to explore my own interests. I really can't wait.

I can go with or without any dating right now. I'm sort of take it or leave it currently. I'm not motivated to start much. But then there are days when I really do feel a strong desire to meet someone, but that is probably more along the need for SF. I wait it out and eventually it passes. Lol

I am sceduling more social things for myself, which is good. I'm running in a 5K this Friday evening. Should be fun and I've never done an organized race/run before. The following weekend I have a party to go to for a friend from work (male). Once Pinky moves out I will focus on my basement remodeling project which will keep me busy. When I have my boys we will start the model railroad stuff too.

Things are looking up. Pinky told me she plans to move out on May 15th now, which is a week earlier than she planned. All good by me.

So did you play ice hockey? Don't mean to be sexist, but that's pretty rare for girls to play isn't it? I think its very cool though! That sounds fun but I can't even skate!

I didn't play growing up. I could always skate -- but I didn't start playing hockey until I was a grown up.
I've played for 6 years now.
In my frozen northern state, it is not completely uncommon for women to play (still on the rare side, but not completely unheard of..) In fact my league has 7 different levels of women's teams and about 1000 players.
It's not the best place to meet MEN, but I guess if I was into GIRLS it would be great!

Now my other hobby is different -- predominately men. So if I was interested, there would be a large supply in the dating pool.

Maybe that's the ticket -- you just need to take up scrapbooking!
Or quilting.

That is very cool Lexxxy! Speaking of hockey, my Blackhawks lost a heartbreaker last night. Fun series to watch though. Well, at least the last 4 games!

Not so sure on the scrapbooking or quilting, but I'll keep that in mind as I go forward. You are right though, and I need to figure out what interests and hobbies I may like and go from there.

Just confirmed this morning that we go into court for our final settlement on Monday. That is great news. Pinky is going to start moving out on May 13th too. Probably be a week of her gradually moving her stuff to the new place. The end is near!!

SOL,

Good to see you're doing well. You're ahead of me, but it looks like we have yet another thing in common. My STBX is scheduled to move out the 13th as well. At least, that's when her apartment will be ready. Since I've come to realize she's in no rush to leave "the comfort" she has deemed "not worth it", I'm not expecting much. Only time will tell, right?

As far as hobbies vs. dating, I say focus on hobbies right now. This is what I'm doing. Mostly because I know that in the course of my M, I have slowly dropped all of "me" trying to appease. I say 'NO MORE!'. Plus, like Lexxy said, you could end up meeting someone with similar interests while pursuing hobbies.

Hope to keep hearing good news from ya!

Hey thanks itsaname. Friday the 13th to boot. Really can't wait for that last final piece of the puzzle to fall into place - her leaving for good. Quite a relief at this point. I go to court tomorrow for our final settlement. All is in order and it should be pretty quick. Then it's just the last couple weeks until I can really reclaim my house and continue to move on in earnest. Really excited about the future.

Speaking of focusing on hobbies and new things...

Well I ran my first organized run this weekend and did a 5k. What a blast! I used to say I only run because I have to for work, but now I have another reason - to get ready to race! It was a lot more fun than I would have thought and I'm all into it now. This whole "go out and find what interests you" stuff is great! Lol

It was nice to try something new and even better to have really enjoyed it. Can't wait to figure out what the next thing may be. Movin on and having fun....


Oh by the way, breaking news- report that Osama Bin Laden is dead. Cool. Too bad he was already pretty irrelevant. Many "bad guy" groups in play over there and he wasn't the main focus when I was there. Still a great thing! You can run but you can't hide. Well can't hide forever anyway!

Good for you, SOL! (the run) And I agree about Bin Laden...

Limbo, I'm glad you're enjoying the running. I have done some of that but not in the recent past. Runners, from what I've seen, tend to be pretty close with each other, if you get into the "culture" of it (not sure how serious you are about it); I would expect you'll start meeting folks if you run a couple of these 5k's or whatever you're after. Just an example of pursuing your interests leading to good things...

Have you thought about how to handle Mother's Day? Your kids are small, so I don't know if you want to get involved for their sake (even if to remind them) or just let the chips fall where they may. Mine are older, but it's still a little uncomfortable for me -- I don't really facilitate them getting her gifts or anything, just let them know they should make her a card at least. That type of thing.

Funny thing is during the M, on Mother's Day, she would want me to take them (so she could "relax"). Then on Father's Day I would want to take them, lol.
~ So is there a point? Not really, lol. But I will say, hopefully for your benefit, that a year after separation (and 9 mo into divorce), there are still wayward behaviors. WXw is better in some ways, but the selfishness has not gone away. Things she has said and done, even recently, reveal to me very little change in her overall attitude toward life. I thought by now reality, being alone, divorce, and seeing the kids trying to function in split households would at least change her outlook/approach (for the kids' benefit). I'll be interested to see where the Pink is a year from now.

[People will probably question my "disattachment" skills after reading the above, but I only pay attention to that type of thing as I feel it relates directly to my kids' welfare. As you've said, you want Pink to be stable for the kids benefit. Same here. It's like a little study I do...of their environment, so to speak]

Anyway, congrats to your brothers for getting their man. We're all proud of you.

Opt

I had a conversation about this with my mother this weekend. She asked me the same question, and I said "I'm not planning on getting her anything; since she decided to not get me a card from DS on my bday...one month after I did for her". My mother's reply reminded me of how we get into these little tit-for-tat situations. She simply stated, "Well, getting her a card is not showing her you're thinking about her, but is teaching DS that he should think about these things. If neither of you do it, he'll never learn that.".

I simply had to bow to the wisdom, and will be getting her a card from DS.

Now, if DS was older, I'd probably use more of a reminding approach...

Just though I'd throw this out here.

It's kind of funny you guys are talking about the gift thing. I just purchased Pinky a present to be from the boys for mothers day. It sounds odd, but I got her a hand held GPS for Geocaching. This was a hobby we shared as a family and had a lot of fun with it. I do hope she will use it to continue the Geocaching when she has the boys. I am keeping the one we already have and will do so when I have the boys.

On my birthday, Pinky gave me a $50 gift card to help with the purchase of my new drill. We talked a little bit about gifts in the future and sort of informally agreed to spend about $50 on each other for the boys to give to us. She knew I wanted a drill and I knew she wanted the GPS. Both of them cost more than the $50, and after Mothers day she will pay me the difference for the gift. Sounds kind of odd but it seems to work. No cards or anything, other than the boys giving their own handmade cards, which are always better anyway! It just allows the boys to actually give each of us something we want or need.

I did finalize the divorce today and everything went smooth as silk. Dropped off copies with my loan officer and should be able to close on the refi later this week. What was telling is what each of us did after the divorce stuff today. I came home and took the boys out to Red Lobster and then to target just to hang out a little bit. Pinky went on a date with somebody from Match. I don't care that she is dating as I am near to doing the same. Just thought the timing was interesting. 2 more weeks and she starts to move out.

I have been a runner for all my senior life (I didn't start until after I turned 40).

I'm running 100 miles a month these days despite a bad back and some leg problems.

Last year I ran one marathon, two half marathons, one ten miler, four 10Ks, one 8K, and six 5Ks.

I'm already registered for one marathon, one half and one ten miler this fall. I'll do other distances as they appear on my radar screen.

I guess you could say I'm really into it.

Good for you!

About the Mother's Day thing...I think a lot depends on the age of the kids and the relationship you have with your ex. My kids were teenagers when their father divorced me so I left it up to them to decide what to do with their dad. We were separated when Mother's day came along and he told my son he could go to his friend's house, without consulting me, and I hit the roof! I told him I'd never do that to him, that Mother's Day I should have the kids with me and Father's Day he should have the kids with him, we never did have another repeat of that. I think the divorced parents should show respect and consideration to each other wherever possible. We are, after all, still the parent of each other's kid/s and we don't want to put the kids in the middle or make things uncomfortable for them. And we DO need to consider what we're teaching our kids. Fortunately, we have been able to get along well since the divorce...now if he could only teach his new wife these same points!

Wow Fred, that's quite a bit of running! I'm looking at running in Memphis for St. Jude's in December. Thinking of doing the half marathon. Maybe do a couple of 10ks between now and then and even a couple 5ks if I can find them. What the heck, I'll be running regularly anyway. Might as well do an occasional event since I enjoyed this lSt one so much. Maybe meet some new people along the way too.

I've got a couple minor medical issues that I just don't have time to take care of. I have a large bunion on my foot and this causes my gait to alter once in a while, which then aggregates my bursar sac in my left knee. Need surgery to fix the foot, which will in turn take care of the knee, but I just don't want to stop over the summer to recover and stay off it. It's a somewhat long recovery and I don't want to miss out on running in the nice weather. Maybe I'll take care of it after Memphis.

Kay, I think that is the right attitude to take. I've read a lot on here about avoiding the "fantasy divorce" too. I don't want to be friends with her and I want the boys to understand that what happened isn't right and shouldn't be modeled. But at the same time I want them to have a healthy relationship with their mother. So long as she is engaged with them. So far we have been very cooperative, but we are still in the same house.

It is somewhat strange right now with this dynamic, but I know it's only for a couple more weeks. She is openly dating and I have no issues with this since she is not letting the boys know. She goes out maybe once a week. I am so ready for her to leave, but we are getting along fine and cooperating with the move and stuff. I'm helping her get stuff to the garage but I will not help beyond that. She will hire movers to move the big stuff and take several trips over a week or so with the little things. So far so good.

_SOL, Go to footsmart.com and check out their toe separators and other bunion aids. I have bunions, too. I've gotten a lot of benefit from some of these aids.

My sister had bunion surgery. She had to walk with crutches for weeks, and has since had additional problems. Don't let anyone tell you that bunion surgery is an "end all, cure all."

Have to keep the derail going on the running topic.

I ran way back in the day when I was in High School, then picked it back up two or three years ago when I realized what horrible shape I was in.

I was able to shed some weight and get into a regular running schedule pretty easily. I don't like the longer distances, can't ever see myself doing a Marathon or even a half, but the 5K's are a lot of fun.

There's only one problem, turns out I'm still pretty good at it and found I could challenge for age group awards if I trained hard. Now the races are more about pushing myself to the max and there is a love/hate thing with both racing and training. Love to see the improvement and rewards for a well run race, hate the pain involved.

I have also encouraged and run a little with my two boys (ages 10 and 6). Both of them could be top-notch runners and have done well in 5K's. My six year old just ran a 26:45 5K and won the 9 and under age group. I loved running with him, and the bonus was there were a lot more hotties in his pack then near the front!

I haven't raced or trained seriously in about 6 months (the same amount of time I've been seeing my new love interest). Coincidence?

Well, I warned in my first post that I may at times post here about divorce related issues. This is one of them. Appologize in advance for the length.

Tough night here at bedtime with DS11. Just when I thought things were going reasonably well, DS11 had a setback and it brought it all back for me. Apparently he found a picture frame I had in my closet that had two small pictures in it. One was our engagement photo and next to it was a picture of me and Pinky on a roller-coaster on the 'way down' with big smiles and arms up. I had proposed to her on the way 'up' and its one of my favorite pictures of us. Anyway, I had sent the boys upstairs to brush their teeth and I followed up to tuck them in. Did DS7 first and we talked for a bit, but his conversation was about doing what he is told and respecting his mother and I. He has been pushing his boundaries lately. Talked for about 20 minutes and then I went to DS11's room.

I found him crying in his bed in the fetal position, holding onto the picture frame I mentioned. I have no idea when he found the pictures. He was sobbing pretty good. Talked to him for quite a while. Starting with the 'what's wrong' and he said he was sad because his parents are getting divorced (we still haven't told them that we are actually divorced already). I told him that it was sad and it's OK to cry about it, as crying with a purpose helps us to eventually feel better. I asked him how he thought things would be different when we are divorced, and what changes he was concerned about. He was mainly expressing disappointment that Pinky didn't or wouldn't try. Couldn't understand how we were so happy before I deployed and said he hasn't felt happy for two years. He also told me when I asked that there are times that he feels responsible and that it's his fault we are getting divorced.

We talked for a very long time and I think I have him convinced that he has absolutely no responsibility in this and it is solely Pinky and my fault. He and his brother have done nothing to cause ANY of this. I told him that I tried as hard as I could but one spouse alone can't make a marriage work. I said that Pinky tried earlier in her own way, but that we both currently don't love each other the way married people are supposed to. I said mom had hardened her heart towards me and that because of this, she thought it was OK to meet somebody else. I said this is never OK when you are married and now my heart is hardened towards her too.

I said that when that happens, God allows for divorce. I told him only God can change a hardened heart, and for reasons unknown to us at this time, He didn't change our hearts even though I wanted Him to. Sometimes God's reasons are His alone, and we just have to have faith that God still loves all of us and will take care of us. I told him that I KNOW that God has a plan for all of us, and he knows what is in our hearts. Sometimes we just have to trust in Him and this is one of them. This is why I know that you will be OK and feel better in time.

I told him that I think both his mom and I have some love for each other, but not the 'special love' that only a man and wife share. He didn't understand so I asked him by name if he loved his brother, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. He said yes to each so I explained that that kind of love is different than romantic love. I said that is more like 'family love', and because that's how mom and I feel, we just can't be married anymore but we can work together as their parents and still love THEM with all our hearts. I got him to understand that it wouldn't be good for all of us to continue living together when mom and I weren't in love anymore and that eventually, we would start being mad at each other and fighting and that wouldn't be good for anybody. I said that at this time, it really would be best to be divorced and living separately.

I then reassured him that both Pinky and I love him and will always be his parents. Nothing can ever change who your parents are and you can never 'divorce' your parents. I said we will forever be their parents, but we won't be married or living together anymore. I told him that it was totally OK for him to continue to love his mom and that he should never feel guilty if he is with me but wants to talk to Pinky or stay at her house. I told him I know he loves me and not to ever be afraid to tell me how he feels or ever worry about hurting my feelings. I said I am here for you now and I will always be here for you. Even when you are my age and I'm older, you can always talk to your dad. I told him mom and I are not competing and we will cooperate and put him and his brother first (i hope this is true).

He was OK for a while as we talked and then started crying again. I was trying to figure out why he was still so upset. He then said, "Pretend we are a different family. There is some other family. They are the 'Smiths' and they have a boy named Joe. What if Joe just wanted to stay with his dad? I would never do that. What kind of person would be like that?" Oh man, my heart sunk deep and fast. He was so upset because he was feeling guilty about not wanting to spend time with his mom. At the same time I felt somewhat validated and proud, yet I also felt overcome with guilt because I know I'm going to be forcing him to spend half his time where he doesn't want to be. Talk about conflicting emotions swirling.

I've always known that if given a choice, the boys would want to spend more time with me. This was a delicate moment and I knew I had to be real careful how I responded. I hope I did OK. I said something like, "Well it's natural for Joe to want to spend time with either parent and he should be OK with letting both his parents know how he feels. There will be times when he wants to spend more or less time with either parent but both parents would try to do fun things with him when he is there."

I then said that as he gets a little older, he would have more say on how much time he spends with either of us, but that for now, he needs to give both of us a chance. I told him that I really believed that things will be better for everybody once Pinky moves down the road. There will be less tension in the house and things would be more relaxed at both houses once we all get used to it. I said both his mom and I will make the most of the time he and his brother are with us and that I was confident that we will have fun here and do special 'dad time' things. I also said that they will also do fun, special 'mom things' when they are staying there. I told him that his mom and I talked and have agreed that when they are staying with either of us, they can ask to go back to the other one's house for a night 'just because' and that neither of us would have our feelings hurt by this. I also told him that we will get them a phone and they can call the other parent anytime they need to talk. I told him both his mom and I want them to be happy and have promised to work together as much as possible for them.

My son has several diagnosed issues including low muscle tone, ADHD, depression and is mildly autistic. He has a hard time coping with change and already struggles at school socially. He is doing well but also lacks self confidence. We then talked about a few other issues about how he can affect his own happiness by changing the way he looks at things. I tried to tell him how his perception of things can become reality. Like if he wakes up and thinks "today is going to be a boring day of school. Nobody will play with me at recess (a real issue for him) and I'll be sad", these thoughts will affect how his day actually goes. I said if he really tried to think more positively and look for the 'good' things, they will seem to happen. I said to think more about what kind of fun things to do at recess and how cool it is to learn at least two new things a day, he would be happier at school.

I added that if he keeps telling himself how miserable things will be with divorced parents, it will actually be that way for him. I told him it didn't have to be that way though. If he looks at the many positives in his life, like being grateful for the things he does have (people who love him, family, friends, fun toys, cool bike, video games) he can be responsible for his own happiness. I said he won't be losing anything, he will simply be gaining another house in addition to this one. He won't be losing either parent, he will just be with them separately. I told him if he begins to have faith that things will be different, but still OK, they will be that way for him to. He has the power of his own perception. Deep stuff for an 11 year old, but I think he understood what I was talking about.

After calming him down and tucking him in he said, "Dad...thanks for making me feel better." I told him he didn't ever have to thank me for that. "That is what people do when they love you. And I love you DS11. Always have...always will."

Didn't mean to write another 'epic' post, but I wanted to get it down while it was fresh. One of the most difficult conversations I have had in my life. Really hard to try to reassure him of the future when deep down I share the same feelings of frustration and sadness. It was very tough balancing the 'focus on the positives' and reassurances that things will be OK for him when I know how damaging divorce is on the kids. Also hard to not demonize his adulterous mother when I do hold her responsible for the whole mess. At the same time, I was trying to teach him what a healthy marriage is supposed to be like.

Divorce just plain sucks. Even when it is really the only option left.

I think you did awesome. You should probaly write a book.

I could just cry, reading this, SOL. You did such a good job comforting your son. What a great Dad.

These are all teaching moments. You did great.

Keep this in your pocket for the next conversation: Talk to him about unconditional love vs. conditional love.
Tell him someday he will meet a girl/woman. Falling in love with her will depend on how she treats him and the love-bank theory. If a girl is treating you badly -- it is unhealthy for you to love them anyway. Conditional love protects you from being hurt.

Describe to him how you felt when he was born. Tell him that you loved him before you ever knew he was funny, cute or smart.
That parents have unconditional love for their children.

Why haven't you told the boys you are divorced? Great post but a little confused why you haven't mentioned this one HUGE piece of information to them yet??

I agree that this has been a HUGE mistake. Too late now, but you could have easily told them, 'boys our divorced was legally finalized today. Mom will continue to live in the house with us for another month or so while she arranges to get her own house.'

Now not sure how this will play out....MY son would want to know the EXACT date.

Oh, SOL, I started crying reading this. Sometimes people don't realize how deeply their actions affect their kids!!

Excellent ideas Lexxxy! Thank you. I will save that one for next time he brings it up.

Yes, you guys are right, but hind sight is 20/20. We did tell them last night by the way.

Back in March when she came home and we got legally divorced, we talked about when to tell them. I did feel we should tell them right away, however Pinky suggested that it may have caused them more stress. Since we knew it would be at least a month from that time until she left, we figured there was not going to be a difference either way, and then we could tell them before she moved out and say, "see, we've been divorced for a month and you can see things weren't different". Thought that it may have helped them ease their fears about how much things would change. I did talk to their counselor and DS11 psychiatrist about that 'plan' and both said it sounded good.

So as it turns out, it really didn't matter anyway. Told them last night and DS11 said, "yeah, I know. You guys got divorced a couple weeks ago." And then DS8 said, "No (DS11), they got divorced back in January when mom went to go see POSOM." Wow, kids still surprise me with how much they really know and pick up on. They were fine last night. We reminded them about how the schedule will work and how they can come back to the other parents house if during the week if they want, but they can't do it just because one of us is making them do something they don't like. I gave an example of me getting on them about picking up thier rooms and then them saying "We want to go to mom's" just to get out of it. We both said that the rules and schedules will pretty much be the same at both places too. I asked them if they had any questions or anything and they said nope, and that they were fine.

I also explained that we started the divorce in March when Pinky came home, but that we just finnished everything this past Monday. I just felt the need to let them know that just to avoid them feeling bad or angry that I kept the facts from them.

Looking back, I agree that we should have just told them right away, but it also seems that there wasn't any harm done either.

On another note, it looks like I may have been a little too optimistic about Pinky coming around to being a better mom. I have a two week training thing in June and she will have them. Well she already asked her parents if they wanted to take the boys for those two weeks. I don't have an issue with this, as I would actually like her parents to have the boys, but she lied about it and told her mom that it was written in our divorce decree that her parents have the boys when I'm on my two week training thing. Crazy.

I suspect she just told MIL that so she didn't appear selfish about simply not wanting to spend time with her own kids. So very sad. What Pinky didn't know was that I had sent her parents and my own folks our written parenting agreement a few weeks ago. I just gave it to them both so that they would know who would have the boys on each holiday and stuff so they could make plans.

Well, Pinky hired her movers and she moves a week from today. I really can't wait!

I only have a couple of things to advise you on with your last post, SOL.

One thing that Dr. Harley advocates and that I (nor a vast majority of the profession)DO NOT agree with is exposure to young children. I have never told them the reason for our split. It is damaging to young children for one of the parents to made out as the bad guy and they thrive best when both parents are supportive and agreeable after the split. I was advised by more than one counselor NOT to tell them about WW's affair or place any blame on any one spouse for the split.

I also hesitated in telling my boys about the divorce until it was time for WW to move out, again at the advice of multiple counselors. It was explained to me that uncertainty about the future is what causes the most anxiety in the children, and if you can keep a fairly normal homelife until the split it is best to hold off telling them.

In other words, telling you children early in the process leaves a lot of uncertainty, who will they stay with and where? Will they change schools? Have to move out of the neighborhood? By waiting until the end, you can answer all these questions up front and with certainty.

My DS10 had a similar reaction when we finally told him. He kind of blurted out "I knew it!" in a triumphant manner like he had solved a puzzle. There were no tears and very little adjustment period for them doing it this way (And I thank God everyday).

I know that most of the "vets" on here will vehemently disagree with the way we've gone about it with the children, but it's one deviation from MB's that I will never, ever regret. They love their mom, she is a good mother to them, and I don't see how any good would come of diminishing her in their eyes.

Dr. Harley has developed a great program for saving marriages, but I hate the attitude on these boards that he is 100% right about everything and that the same formula can be applied in every situation. Human relationships don't work that way.

I think you have done your best with the hand dealt you.

When your parents get a divorce, arguing about the best way to find out is like arguing about what color to paint the walls while the home is burning down.

I remember the day my parents told me they were getting a divorce. The thing I hated about it most, the thing I still hated the most, was how it was presented as a joint decision. I knew who wanted the divorce and who did not. I'm glad I knew the truth and saw through the lie.

I felt that way decades before I heard about Dr. Harley, for what that's worth.

You handled it beautifully. You taught him he can always come to you, that he is still your child and hers, to try and focus on the positive. I hope he understands that it's okay to feel grief and loss over the family unit as well as the positives (relief from the stress/tension in the home).

It is sad. I don't know if this is a wayward trait, or just another area where Pink and my wExw are cut from the same cloth. Fortunately, with the clarity of divorce, and not living with her anymore I have been able to see the extent to which she would almost constantly shade the truth. It's like they (waywards) live in a world of almost-lies/white lies/half-truths. That most certainly has not changed just because my wexw took off her wedding ring, or 10 months after the D for that matter. Here's the story (from this week):

I call wexw to tell her D9 has a UTI (I'm in the medical field, I know the symptoms). I need her to know that I'm giving her lots of fluids and will take her to the clinic tomorrow (and inquire if she saw anything since it was my first night with D9 for the weekend). I tell her D9 is scared and if she could talk to her she might feel better. Wexw tells her she's had them before and it's no big deal, nothing to be scared about. Next day: wexw calls me for an update, D9 standing next to me. Wexw then informs me that she has actually never had a UTI and that she was only saying that to calm D9 down. Maybe I'm crazy but to ME that's lying. To ME, if you're not ACCUSTOM to telling lies, that thought would have never occurred to her to make up a story about her medical history. There should be no reason to lie about that unless it's simply the only thing that comes to your mind, or if it's simply easier to do it (and let's face it- isn't lying usually the "easy" way out?).

So anyway, I have every reason to believe that wexw continues to use dishonesty when it serves her purposes, even to her own kids. You know what that means. It's up to me to provide the ultimate respect for the truth. The kids will ultimately decide who's example they want to follow.

I hope you find this relevant, Limb. If not hopefully someone else reading will.

opt

Sooooo, doesn't that mean that, for the prior days/weeks, he had been feeling the same sort of anxiety/uncertainty you were trying to avoid?



Don't mean to pick on you schtoop, and I know you are comfortable with your path. But I've been thinking about this since I read it earlier in the day. My kids love their mom too, and she is basically a good mom to them. I don't, however feel that I "diminished" or degraded her when I told my kids the TRUTH about what she had done - as you remember I did it in an age-appropriate way. I said I was being highly disrespected and I could no longer stay in a relationship where I was being abused. I told them I tried everything I could but their mother insisted on having inappropriate relationships with other men while she was married and I could not tolerate that anymore, nor could I continue to allow that to be an example of acceptable behavior. I told them their mother was not willing to respect my wishes and show respect to her marriage partner, that her "friendships" were more important to her than her marriage. That's the truth and I don't see how it was degrading to her. I believe compromising my own principles and glossing over the truth would have been degrading to THEM. It also teaches them that people don't have to be accountable for their actions - that the right thing to do is simply "not talk" about people's misdeeds. "I can steal this candy bar, and as long as I can convince my brother not to say anything, I can eat in peace"

Okay- how "young"?

Schtoop. You know I hate counsellors. But I think they make their recommendations based on the premise that most people are idiots. They advise people not to talk about adultery to their kids because they envision the betrayed spouse running out and inappropriately drag their ex through the mud - "your mom's a cheating sl&t!, and my counsellor said it was okay to say that." Clearly Harley/MB doesn't advocate anything like that.
I agree that it is damaging to have one parent be made out to be the bad guy. But the truth can be revealed without vilifying a spouse. I also think two parents can be supportive and agreeable even in the context of the children knowing what caused the split. I never say anything bad about my ex and she doesn't about me. I've tried to teach my kids that it's best to move on and get over it when you are betrayed, not to dwell on the past. I've also taken responsibility for my role in making my exww feel the desire to look outside the marriage for comfort.

Counsellors have been saying the same thing for a lot of years, and the divorce rate continues to be the same or worse. Clearly kids in our generation learned nothing when their betrayed parents covered for their wayward parents (because their counselor advised them to). Of course kids in our generation didn't benefit from the other extreme, but Harley advocates neither of these approaches. It's my understanding that he simply advocates showing respect for children by telling them the truth (something they most certainly know anyway because the see more than we think). I believe he feels it's more damaging for children to know the truth and then be sold a different version of reality by adults.

opt

schtoop - one day, your children will know the truth and will wonder why you lied to them about their own lives. What will you say to them then?

They will grow up blind to the signs of a cheating spouse because they were not told the truth about it when it happened right in their own homes. They will grow up believing that neglectful, independent behaviour is normal and should be tolerated, and divorce happens for "other reasons" - reasons which remain a total mystery.

Truth doesn't harm children, schtoop, but lies and secrets harm them very much. And I'm sorry, but no cheating spouse is a good parent - ever. The two are mutually exclusive and the kids know this even if you do not.

I agree. I told my ds (who was barely 9 on DD)_ that his dad had become involved with another woman which is against God's law and that it was so hurtful to me (spouse/wife) that God allowed a provision to end the marriage in these situations. As the days past, he asked questions until he had it NAILED down that his dad had had SEX with another woman.

He needed to 'get' that. He needed to know I wasn't divorcing his dad because 'we fought all the time.' (that was my XH's suggestion). I did tell him that the marriage was over to much damage had been done to my heart, but that his dad could stop doing wrong things. I told him (choking, due to my own anger at the time) that his dad isn't 'bad', but was doing a bad thing and he could stop at any time.

I agree and think that telling my boys the truth in an age appropriate way was the right way to go for us. It was a very difficult discussion but I think I've done as well as I could have under the circumstances. I think it was back in December of 2009. I never slammed WXW to them. Simply stated somewhat matter of factly what was going on and why it was wrong. They then witnessed my working towards being a better husband and my unsuccessful attempts to meet her needs. They also witnessed her own poor choices and ultimately see things they way they really are/were.

I'm pretty sure Pinky was telling them lies about her affair and was slamming me to a certain degree. I now know that they saw through that on their own, primarily because they knew the truth from me initially. As time went on and they were having issues with understanding 'why' we were divorcing, I may have protected her a little bit by telling them of my role in the degradation of our marriage. I did ensure to tell them that there was no excuse for what Pinky has done. I also said something about hating the behavior, but not the person.

The end result today is that my boys have a very strong relationship with me and know they can count on me and come to me with any problems or issues. They feel safe with me and know that I love them dearly. The same cannot be said of their relationship with Pinky. I know they question her love for them and they are angry with her and don't trust her. None of that is due to what I have told them. They feel that way directly in response to how she has treated them the past two years. I really do hope she will improve and rebuild her relationship with them, but I can't control that and am not responsible for it. All I can do is continue to provide and love them the best that I can so they know they can count on their dad to be there for them.

Since this is the dating and relationships forum I have a little update there. Things are slowly starting to pick up for me. It really seems as if everything is starting to come together as it is supposed to. Finalized my divorce on Monday. Should refinance my house by Wednesday this week. Pinky moves out this Friday. Met a girl I've been talking to IRL today and had a great time. Just went for lunch and went for a walk at a park. Taking it very slow and very honestly. She is nice and I enjoy her company, but I'm not feeling the tingling of sparks or anything. I did have a nice time with her though. Will see her again sometime soon though as it was nice and light.

I also received a message a few days ago from someone online. I did start an account but haven't done anything other than read others' profiles. If somebody contacts me, I do reply but I have kept it very short and not really open to starting a dialogue. I finally got around to replying to this one last night and sent her a nice reply and checked out her profile. She sure seems interesting and has a great profile. When I got home today she had replied again, so it looks like I may have something developing there. I will take things very slow and remain completely honest with her.

By the way, I have told the girl I was with today that I am not intending to get into any kind of exclusive relationship right now, and that I was intending to go out with other women too. Told her I have no intention of becoming a 'player', but just want to meet different people and increase my social circle. She seems to have no issues with that so far.

Everything seems to be coming together nicely and with Pinky moving out in a week or so, the timing is pretty good too. I will remain extremely vigilant about keeping my own dating away from my boys and not let it interfere in any way with my time with them. I guess I'm ready to start communicating with women now, so that when I have some time to myself I may be able to meet them or go out on dates if it feels right at the time. I feel somewhat 'lazy' about it. I'm not in any rush and would be fine spending my first few weeks without the boys alone, doing something I enjoy, or going out with friends. I don't feel like I 'need' to fill this time with dating, so I still don't plan on actively pursuing dates. If it happens, great. If not, that's fine too.

SW- I also liked what you said about pointing out God's view on divorce too. I'm not the most knowledgeable guy and found my way to church and God only about 6 years ago. But I do know that it is my responsibility as their father to try to bring them up in Christ and to teach them what I do know about these things as best I can. I make sure they go to church with me whenever we can and intend to continue their involvement and spiritual development.

This is why I specifically mentioned to my son the other night the fact that adultery is one of the reasons that God allows for divorce. Both boys know that I am not without fault, but they also know the main reason for the divorce.

SOL
threadjack/

I just wanted to share something personal with you.
Our 25 year old son is in his last week of Boot Camp, Ft Benning GA.
Then, he's off to Tex[censored] to complete combat medic training.

Say a prayer for our boy.

HooRa!

/threadjack

Pep, that is awesome! I hope he 'enjoys' Iron Mike's home for Boys! Lol. That's where I started my military career about the time he was born! Last time I was at Benning was back in 97 for some training. It hadn't changed much and suspect it never will, but that isn't a bad thing. I wish him luck and I'm sure he will do just fine. Tell him to stay away from Victory Drive, although I doubt he will have much time to "sight see" lol.

If you ever worry about him, remember that God loves medics. Actually he will always be looked after once he gets to his unit. We always take good care of our docs. Does he know what unit he will be assigned to yet?

We don't know his unit yet.
Thanks SOL.
I do worry.
It's my job.

Yes it is, .

And that reminds me......

A happy belated Mother's Day to you and all the other great moms on here too.



Hope you are doing well Pep.

Limb, good luck with the move today.
opt

Thanks Opt. Very happy and excited. She actually started moving yesterday and took a couple carloads of stuff over. This morning as I was heading off to work the moving truck pulled up.

I will see visible signs of change when I get home today and I can't wait. It will still be about a week before she moves out herself, but it's coming. She has purchased new furniture for her place to include her bed and it hasn't been delivered yet. Should be soon and I suspect once her bed comes in, she will be out permanently. I keep her current bed, (Craigslist??) along with most of our other furniture.

Things are going well.

A while back in your thread I speculated as to the possibility that there was perhaps something pathological going on with Pinky upstairs, and I really do wonder how your kids were treated while you were deployed if she stayed online all day long. I think there's more than meets the eye in your exwife's case, SoL, more than just a garden variety wayward. It's too bad for your kids that their mother seems to be so apathetic towards them, but it's good that they have a strong father.

Just a short while longer and she'll be out of your hair. Then you'll truly be free and be able to enjoy being in your own house without having to look at her and get pissed off all over again.

I am so glad for you that moving day is arriving and hoping you can soon have some closure. It has to be stressful to live in the same house when everything has already been decided and acted upon. May you soon be able to pop a cork!

Thanks Kay, AJ, and Opt. Actually, the cork has been popped, so to speak. She hasn't slept in my house since Thursday, and it has been very nice. Now I haven't been home much either as I was working all weekend. Boys were at her parents all weekend.

Today I took the day off and took care of some stuff I needed to do around the house, got a haircut, got the dog washed, cleaned the bathrooms/kitchen and mowed the lawn. Once the boys came home we played some catch and then I took them out for a steak dinner, came back and watched some Simpsons. They just showered up and I need to go tuck them in, but I was checking in.

Today was absolutely GREAT. It was nice to do the things that needed to be done, for ME. Nice to clean MY house. Nice to take care of MY boys.

She still has a bit of moving left but it's essentially over. I have to travel for work this week and will be gone from tomorrow through Thursday. Pinky is going to come back to the house and stay here with the boys. It may seem strange, but I'm OK with this for now. She will finish packing/moving and take care of the boys and my dog while I'm gone the next couple days. Her new place isn't quite ready for the boys overnight as furniture still needs to be delivered.

When I come back Thursday night, she will be out permanently. Garage door opener and house keys turned in.

Did I mention how great this feels????

It'll only get better.

By the way, what breed is the dog? Focus on the very good.

That is great to hear because it's feeling pretty good right now!

My dog is a big ole' American Bulldog. She is a real sweetheart.

Congratulations, SOL! I hear the relief and enjoyment coming through.

American Bulldogs...they ARE sweethearts.

Americajin6 to SoL6, sitrep, over.

How's it going for you? Probbaly been a busy time for you the past week. How did your kids take the finality of their Mom moving out?

Do your kids have friends at school that live nearby? Time for a sleepover with age appropriate movies, pizza and homemade sundaes.

Hey AJ, read ya LC here.

Yes, it's been a pretty busy couple of weeks, but very good overall. Pinky moved out two weeks ago and hasn't slept in my house since. That has been wonderful. She found a place about 3/4 mile down the road which is good and bad. It's good for the boys because the close proximity is convenient, but it could be bad for the same reason w/Pinky. I drive past her place everyday to and from work. No big deal so far and no feelings associated with seeing it or her.

She took most of her 'stuff' that she wanted, but there is still quite a bit here that she needs to go through. We are planning a garage sale in the future so I see her point in not wanting to drag it all over to her place for now, but it still leaves that minor 'connection' to her and I don't like that. At least it's all junk that is in the basement that we have collected over the years. I will probably go through it and separate anything I want to keep and she will do the same eventually, and then we will sell or give away the rest.

I've been busy re-arranging a bit and purchasing the things that she took that I need to replace, such as a BBQ grill, and some pots and pans. I have to tell you that it feels really good to have her gone.

The boys seem to be doing pretty well overall too. Funny you mentioned the sleepover because that's exactly what happened this past weekend here. DS11 stayed at next door neighbor's and DS8 had a friend from church stay with us.

Her move seemed to go well and we had no conflicts so far. A couple things ticked me off but they were minor. I guess while she was still here and living in her 'cave', she decided to disable the door lock on the spare bedroom by filling the doorknob with hot glue. I did not know this and over the weekend one of the boys locked the door and closed it. I couldn't get it open and had to call Pinky to ask if she did something. She just said she did 'something and I wouldn't be able to open it." She then suggested I take it apart. Of course I would have if I had been on the INSIDE of the room!

I ended up getting all 11B on it with a hammer to knock the knob off and I saw what she had done. Eventually got it replaced but the craziness of it got me a bit angry. Apparently she didn't want me or the boys to be able to get in if she locked her door, although I never tried previously. Waywards....go figure.

So I'm pleased with the split and physical separation, but I am very disappointed with PInky's continued behavior. It's time to start documenting. I was hoping she would be true to her word and be more engaged and loving with the boys, but so far I'm just not seeing it. She's been gone for two weeks and the boys have only stayed at her place two nights, and that was when I was out of town for work. She is all set at her new place and has all her furniture and stuff, but she doesn't want the boys until June 6th.

Now I don't mind the extra time with my boys, but I just don't understand how and why she doesn't seem to want them. I have been pretty much their primary caregiver since I got home October 2009, other than when I was TDY for work. She took a 2 month 'vacation' to Australia. Came home and moved back in, but I was taking care of the boys 98% of the time while she was here. She moved out two weeks ago and doesn't want the boys for another two weeks.

What is most troubling is that I have my two week training 10-25 June and she was supposed to have the boys. She immediately 'pawned them off' to her parents for the whole two weeks. I have no issues with the boys staying with her parents, but am confused as to why she doesn't seem to want to have them. She lied to her mom and told her that it was in our divorce decree that they have the boys when I do my annual two week training (not true). So she has been home since early March, and will only have the boys for about 5 days in June before passing them off to her parents for two weeks. Then I will come home on the 25th and take them back for another week and THEN she will have her first 'full week' with the boys in early July.

I just don't get how what used to be a great mother can act that way towards her own wonderful children. I'm just frustrated with it because I know the boys can feel it and there isn't much I can do to help them. For now. I will document and if this trend continues, look into taking her back to court for full custody. But then again, I'm due to deploy again in March 2013. One day at a time I guess.

Another thing that bugs me a bit is that the boys have already met two of her 'dating partners'. She has called it off with Crocodile Dundee apparently, but is active on Match and dating other men. I don't care that she is dating, but I wish she would keep these guys out of the boys life/vision for a while. At least until she feels it may become a more serious relationship. I don't think she intentionally introduced them, but rather they stopped by while the boys were at her place. Although they don't stay there, after school she takes the boys until I come home from work and pick them up. One guy stopped by to drop off a pendant (guessing from a date or whatever) she had left, and another one was helping her hook up her washer and dryer. It's just the thoughtlessness and selfishness of it that bothers me.

As far as my dating goes, I'm still taking things very slowly. Primarily because I just don't have the time with having the boys all the time. I'm talking to three nice girls and have gone out a with one of them while I was out of town last week. Nothing serious or exclusive, and I'm very open and honest with all of them. I know I'll be OK in that department and I'm in no rush. It's actually kind of fun, I just don't have much time for it. To tell the truth, that's probably another reason I am frustrated with Pinky and her time with the boys. I could use a little break here too, but I know the boys will just watch movies or play video games with her. We do that too, but I do it WITH them among other things. I suspect as time goes by, the boys will continue to want to spend more time with me and that is just fine. I'll fit my 'dating' in when I can.

So today I'm off work. I went and had lunch with DS8 at his school and now I'm going to go through some of that 'junk' in the basement and continue setting up MY house!!

Have I mentioned how nice it is to not be in Limbo?

SOL..Out.

We've all said it before Limb, but it bears repeating:
Your kids are very lucky to have you.
opt

Yes, thank God your boys have YOU!

Have you tried talking with her about your concerns about her introducing guys to your sons to men in her life too soon? It's pretty understood that it's not good to have all of these men in and out of their lives, they don't need exposed to her dating or drama. Until she has an idea that a guy might be more permanent, even as a friendship, she really shouldn't have them around your sons.

It's rather infuriating that she is manipulating her own parents with her lies. Maybe you could provide them with a copy of the decree so they know the truth, after all, they may be forming the opinion they have some legal rights to the boys that they don't have. I'd let them know you don't have any problem with them seeing them, in fact, it's good that they want to, but the legalities are not as they've been presented to them.

Beats me how she can be a good parent and then do such an abrupt change! I gave up everything to keep my kids just 1-2 more years when their dad and I divorced. I can't imagine a mother NOT wanting them, but I honestly feel, may the BEST parent get custody!!

Thank you Opt.

Kay, we have talked about not introducing other people to the boys and I'll give her a little slack as I don't think these were planned visits with her 'friends'. I don't think she was telling the boys that these guys were boyfriends. I was just thinking she should not have allowed them to stop by when the boys were there this soon anyway. Maybe I'm being unrealistic there. I don't think they were there long and just stopped by while the boys happened to be there.

You are right and it's the continued lying to her parents that has me more concerned. Well, that and the apparent lack of desire to spend time with her children. Back in March when we drafted the parenting agreement I had sent a copy to her parents and mine, so that they would know who was supposed to have the boys on each holiday for their planning purposes. Her parents knew she was lying and that was why they contacted me and asked me about it.

I did tell her folks that I had no issues with them having the boys, but that I was as concerned as they were that Pinky was lying about the reasons why she wanted them to take the boys.

This will do the most damage to the boys...they WILL notice. What is she thinking!!!

Quote

the apparent lack of desire to spend time with her children.

Her loss, your gain. Good luck trying to talk to her about it. Seems she wants to be footloose and fancy free and the kids would be an impediment.

Just out of the house two weeks and already more than one guy knows where she lives, one apparently returning something she left over at his place. She don't waste no time, does she?

No, she hasn't wasted much time, but as Kay says, her loss. I really do hope she comes around for the boys and gets out of this fog. There have been some minor positives. I've heard from two of her 'former' friends that she has reached out to them and talked with them. It's not much, but she may be trying to reconnect to real life friends. More importantly, she did take the boys Friday through Saturday and at least spent some time with them. They saw a movie and went swimming, so it was more than TV and video games. Boys seemed very happy when I got them back yesterday morning so that's encouraging.

I will watch closely and document regardless.

I hope everyone enjoys this beautiful day today. Take a moment sometime today and remember the fallen warriors who sacrificed all so that we could enjoy it in freedom to celebrate it any way we want.

I'm taking my boys to a Memorial Day ceremony at the local cemetery. After that we'll head over to the Legion for some pie. Then I have some yard work to catch up on and we will play some catch and go bike riding. It's finally not raining here and will be up around 90 and sunny! Should be a great day.

Never Forget.

Thanks for that one SOL!

The everyday American sometimes forgets the sacrifices our Brothers and Sisters put into supporting our Country!

Thank you for your Service Sir!

Americajin said it, not me. My concern is more about how it will affect the boys overall.

Yep, that is my concern too. Her parents' concern as well.

DS8 had a baseball game Tuesday and her folks came over to see it. Me and DS8 arrived first because he has a short practice before it. Her folks arrived next and then she came along with DS11. As she was walking to the diamond, she was looking down texting. She continued to text and pay more attention to her phone than the game. At one point her mom had to call her attention to the fact that DS8 was up to bat.

After the game she went home and the boys, me and her folks went out for pizza. Very strange and sad. At the restaurant was when her mom told me she said a few things to Pinky during the game. We were sitting nearby, but I didn't hear them talking.

At least having her parents see it sort of validates that it's not just my perception of her lack of involvement/caring with the boys. All I can do for now is show them love and attention during the time they are with me. So far, that has been almost all of the time.

I was looking at the way it will work out with time with the boys through the next month. For the first 60 days that she will have been living on her own, she will have the boys with her a total of 8 days. Her parents will have them for 14 days while I am gone for training, and I will have them for 38 days. I really hope this trend doesn't continue and she gets more involved, but I'm not counting on it.

ETA- I should add that on the days boys are with me and I'm working, she has them for about 90 minutes each weekday between school and me coming home from work.

{{{{{Sol}}}}}

It's such a shame that Miss Pinkster doesn't engage more. You know the old adage "What goes around, comes around"?

One day it will.....

This will apply to BOTH of you.....only the results will differ

Good work on YOUR front Soldier....all around

Not

Ugh SOL, these men from Match know where she lives??? That is so scary. She is newly divorced, already on Match and revealing that much personal info? Yikes! I have friends who use Match and one of their hard and fast rules is that they NEVER allow a new interest to pick them up from their home. They ALWAYS meet instead at a public place.

Do you realize how dangerous this is to your boys? Does Pinky not have a lick of sense?

Even Match.com recognizes the danger. The Do's and Don'ts of Dating Off-line and On-line

This doesn't even count the emotional harm that she is doing to her boys, who are just now getting used to the fact that their parents are divorced.

Sheesh.

Well this week has been off to an odd start. This should have been the first full week of Pinky having the boys. We are supposed to 'swap out' the boys every Monday. Pinky has been putting off taking 'her week' even though she has been moved out since the 12th of May. Yesterday should have started her first week.

She picked the boys up around 9 am yesterday. By noon she texted me reminding me that I am supposed to take the boys back for one night a week during 'her week'. This was part of our plan to offset the time she has them between school and me coming home from work during 'my week'. We agreed that I would have the boys Wednesday evenings during her week.

Around 3 pm she texted again asking me if I could take DS8 for the night. DS11 was going to spend the night at her friends and she claimed she had to work all night. Of course I agreed to take my son again. I took him for ice cream and we drove past her house on the way there and on the way home. Both times her car was not there, which tells me she wasn't home working. Whatever. I just don't appreciate being lied to. She could have told me she had plans and I still would have taken my son.

Then today at DS8's baseball game, she dropped off both boys and left, asking me to drop them back off at her house after the game, which I did. Before she left she told me that she and her new boyfriend were "getting serious", and she wanted to let me know that she planned on introducing him to the boys. I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was something like, "OK, that's your prerogative", or something similar. She also told me that her parents were going to take the boys one night earlier than planned, and they will be staying with them from the 9-25 June, while I am away at training.

This now means that she will have the boys overnight for one night in the month of June. Maybe 3 at the most. I come home on the 25th and am due to get my boys back for 'my week' starting the 27th. She may have the boys on 25-26, but I suspect she will ask her parents to just keep them until I take them on that Monday.

I enjoyed the game and DS8 played his best game yet. After I dropped them back off, Pinky came out and tried to talk to me about how she is coming along with getting her health care started. I was pretty detached and uninterested (no eye contact) and was able to end the conversation quickly. I was pissed.

Not about her and her new 'boyfriend', but I was angry about how the heck she can find the time to become 'serious', while she is supposedly so busy working. Well I know how- she is taking advantage of me having the boys all the time, freeing her up to live her exciting single life and enjoy her Match exploits. All at the expense of my boys.

I want to keep letting her make her own decisions, and I am documenting. I don't mind having my boys more than 50% of the time at all. What I DO mind is paying her CS for her having the boys 50% of the time when she doesn't even take them 10% of the time. I'm not sure how long I have to wait to legally adjust our agreement, but I suspect it's longer than two months.

I want to write her an email voicing my views on this 'introduction' of her new boyfriend. I want to remind her that the 'no overnight guests' clause is still in effect and that I have no issues with her new relationship, but I do have issues on how that may play out with the boys at this time. I want to tell her to take it slow with them and question how she can be sure this relationship may be long term when she can only have been seeing him for several weeks. I want to caution her not to introduce multiple men to the boys to avoid their confusion that it may bring. I suspect she wants to force their acceptance of this new guy for her own selfish reasons. I'm not writing this email tonight because I know I am too angry right now, but I will talk/email her about it before I leave.

As Scotty says, Wayturds suck a$$.

Not!! So good to 'see' you again! I have missed you. I hope you are doing well my friend. Thank you for checking in.

You and PM are right. Pinky just doesn't see how anything affects anybody besides herself. Very frustrating still.

Oh, _SOL, I'm so sorry. I know something about what you're going through. It's bad enough to see your WS destroy a marriage, but when they completely blow off their own kids it hurts. I have hurt for my children so much through all this.

I think it goes along with the Wayward territory. They are selfish. Terribly selfish. In my case it was almost like my WXH was living a life of pretense. He was pretending to be a good husband, a good father, a good church-goer. And then he finally hit a point where he couldn't pretend any longer.

First, he told me that he didn't believe in the Bible, but that I couldn't divorce him because *I* didn't have Biblical grounds. Next, he moved out of the house to pursue the OW (but wanted ME to pretend that he still lived there). Finally, after the divorce was filed, he gave up completely on pretending to be a decent father.

_SOL, here's my suggestion about the custody agreement and Pinky's neglect of the kids. For the next several months, just let it go. Spend as much time with your kids as you can. Love them. Be the father they want and need, and just be thankful that her mother is around to give them some mothering.

I believe that in most states they don't want you to try to change the custody order for at least a year unless there is some kind of emergency situation. Ask your lawyer or do some Googling to find out. But, as soon as the typical time is up march down to the courthouse and file for a change. If you haven't already, start now keeping a detailed list of times when you have the kids, when she has them, and when her parents (or other friends/relatives) have them.

When you show up with a year's worth of records showing how little time she has spent with the kids, you will be awarded primary custody and she will have to pay YOU child support.

Sadly, you are going to have to think of child custody and child support issues as a war. A long drawn-out war. Pinky doesn't even realize that she won the first battle. (I'm assuming she got 50% custody and child support.) She doesn't want to be with the kids and she probably thinks that the child support money is for HER, not for her to spend on the kids.

Right now you are working on the stealth campaign. You are spending as much time as possible with the children and maintaining a great relationship with them. You just have to think of the money you're giving her now as a cost of war. It will be worth it when you win the next battle.

It's usually a year between child support changes. Document, document, document!

I wouldn't advise her introducing someone to the boys within six months because it takes up to that long for the newness of the relationship to wear off and see what they really have...honestly, it can take way longer to know someone. My XH didn't show his true colors until 2 1/2 years into our relationship and unfortunately, we were already married by then.

Pinky's a fool, but then you don't need me to tell you that. I can't imagine not wanting to spend all the time I could with my kids!

Quote

What I DO mind is paying her CS for her having the boys 50% of the time when she doesn't even take them 10% of the time. I'm not sure how long I have to wait to legally adjust our agreement, but I suspect it's longer than two months.

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about it right now except continue to document the time they are spending with you. At some point down the road you can ask your attorney if it would be worth it to pursue an adjustment in your arrangement, making sure that it wouldn't go the wrong way in court.

I would continue to document not only to hopefully lower your financial burden but also to potentially change who would be the legal guardian of your kids while deployed. If she is like this while you are here what could happen while you are away and no one is keeping track of what she is doing with your kids?

Limb, I just wanted to remind you that you seem to be coming very close to the fantasy divorce here. Be very careful. It is a slippery slope and it will be VERY confusing to those boys.

BTW, Plan B after D? I think it would be good for you, for a while at least. Find yourself an IM, and find someone else to watch those boys for you for the 90 minutes afterschool. Could they stay home by themselves?

Document eveything that you can, and try to get those boys for MORE time and pay her less CS. She doesn't deserve to have them with her when she is behaving like this and it is damaging those poor children.

Yes, I am documenting everything. I don't have a real warm and fuzzy about the future here, but there isn't much I can do for now besides document. Her parents are very involved and will also be watching her closely as we go forward. I will speak to my lawyer about how to procede down the road if she doesn't improve regarding the custody split and CS amounts if I have them much more than 50%.

It may be difficult to try to get full custody when I'm scheduled to deploy again in March 2013. I did send Pinky an email today on the subject. I talked about some specifics regarding her coming to my house while I'm gone for training (I leave this Saturday). Then I got into the subject of her telling me she wanted to introduce her new boyfriend to the boys. Here is what I wrote:

"I was also thinking about you planning on introducing the boys to your new guy friend. I don't have any issues with him personally as I don't know him at all but only caution you to be real sure you think this relationship may be lasting before you introduce him as a 'boyfriend'. I mean, how long have you been seeing him? I don't think it could be more than 6 weeks or so. I would recommend giving it a couple months after the 'excitement phase' ends and you really get to know each other more. In my opinion, all new relationships start on a big 'high' and only after spending lots of time together can you be sure they are right for a long-term relationship. It's only after spending the time that you can see the other person's faults and flaws and they see yours.

For myself, I don't plan on introducing anybody to them until I've been seeing somebody exclusively for at least 6 months or so and I feel very strongly that it may be a very long-term relationship. It's not that I don't trust your new guy to be 'safe' with the boys. I'm more concerned with how the situation would be taken by the boys. The divorce is still very recent for them and I don't think they have established their new 'routines' with both of us independently yet. I have read that it is very hard and damaging to younger children to have a revolving door of boyfriends/girlfriends coming in and out of their life. The fear I have is if they meet this guy and like him and things don't work out after they have become attached to him. Loss and disappointment all over again. I also think the boys are craving time/attention from you and may become jealous of your new friend.

I'm not insinuating that you are going to have a 'revolving door' of guys coming around. I just question that introducing him at this point is really in the boys' best interest, or is it more for yours? The boys haven't spent that much time at your place with just you yet and I'm not sure how comfortable they are with their new situation. Introducing a new partner so soon may cause them more confusion. Just my opinion.

Obviously you are going to do what you think is best, but I wanted to offer my opinion anyway. Just please do some research on the topic of introducing new partners after a divorce and be careful with the boys. That's all I ask. Thanks."

I'm interested to see how she responds. I suspect she will reply with defensiveness and anger, but I'll see. I just wish she would stop being so damn selfish and think more about the boys.

Scotty, I don't think I need to go Plan B as of yet. My feelinigs are truely dead towards her. I think having to route everything through an IM at this point would actually make things more stressful for me. For now I will document and watch. Watch very closely.

SOL,
Well put, very sensitively handled. I'm glad you raised those concerns to her...of course, she may not care what you think or how it affects the boys, but at least you tried.

I honestly do not know how you stop yourself from knocking her block off.

Serenity prayer is my lifesaver. That and the thought of going to jail, losing my boys and my career. Karma will even things up eventually.

She did reply to my email by the way, but only to the specific questions I asked her prior to what I shared here. She played ostrich with all of that stuff. Typical. Not what she wants to hear so she simply ignores. At least I tactfully told her what I thought. Feel a little better about that anyway, although I already knew she would do it anyway. We'll see.

I just read thru this entire thread, and all I can say is I wish the best for you and the boys SOL. I know when my stbxh and I separated, without a car, I did have to rely and ask for help on occassion, then decided long ago it was far better paying my daughter to help when I needed to go somewhere, or whatever. Worth every penny to me not to have to see dimwit.

As it stands now, I can count on two hands how many times I've seen him since the first of the year, and of those, twice that we actually said more than six words, those both involved him informing me he was hiring and paid for his lawyer. Have not talked to him since the end of March. Just a couple heated text messages for health info he was not wanting to give me for her.

Life is getting more peaceful by the minute! Hope you continue doing well, and keep up the good work with the boys! They are lucky to have a dad like you!

SOL --

I lost track of you .... just did some catching up.

Sadly, you should expect Pinky to keep right on doing what she's doing. She will likely introduce them in spite of your email.

Try not to be too condiscending with her, because it will antagonize her and she may do some of these things just to spite you. To prove that you're not the boss of her....

Yep. She a juvenille. She's gonna act like an immature 20 year old for awhile.

Stay on the high road.

Just curious, but is there any chance you might consider retiring before this 2013 deployment?

SOL

Just an update.
Our son learned he will be stationed in Germany.
Where he will be deployed is not currently known.

Take care.

Hey Pep, that's great news. I really liked Germany. I'm sure your son will enjoy the experience. Especially if he hasn't been to Europe before. It is a nice country with lots of culture and things to explore.

Lexxxy, thanks for catching up with me. It's funny you ask if I have considered retirement before the next deployment. I reached 20 years of active federal service 4 days ago. I've been in for almost 25 years but my first 5 years were regular National Guard. I've thought a lot about my future recently, but I think I'm going to stay in a while longer.

Part of the reason I went Warrant was to stay in longer with the added benefit of stability. In my position, I can stay right where I'm assigned and continue to get promoted and not have to move or be transferred. Since my youngest is only 8, I wanted the job security and stability in order to allow my boys to grow up in the same school system. I plan to stay another 10 years.

This decision was made when I was 'happily married', and thought it was the best decision for my family at the time. Little did I know what was about to transpire. In light of recent events, I have second guessed this decision many times, but still feel it was the right move to go officer. I love what I do although it has it's challenges. Also, the longer I continue to serve, the less of my retirement will go to Pinky.

I've also had some time to reflect and digest my new life. To tell the truth, I've been a bit down lately and miss my old "pre-affair" life. I made the mistake of looking at my ex's facebook page yesterday. Wow, what a mistake that was! Seeing her posts back and forth with her online girlfriends talking about going out and meeting guys. Ugghh. I knew I shouldn't have looked. She is so very lost.

I had been doing pretty good with the whole detachment and moving on thing, and suppose I still am. I just occasionally look back and still wonder how and why all of this has happened and I still can't make much sense of it all. It is such a waste and a damn shame. Before I wallow around in self-pity, I realize there isn't any going back so I don't dwell in these thoughts often. I have been away at Army training the last two weeks and miss my boys. Just sort of lonely really.

I miss the security and intimacy and sense of completeness that I had with my family. Now it's 'us' and 'her' and I don't like that. I know there will be good days and bad. I mostly have good days now and I'm usually able to stop myself from allowing the bad days to affect me. I need to get more involved in other activities once I get home this Saturday. Staying busy helps. It's when I'm bored and alone that I start to feel down.

Does the troop withdrawal change things for you SOL?
That would be really great...

Just be glad its "us" and "her" instead of "them" and "me".
You're getting the better end of the deal.

Be pro-active in getting some things planned (for yourself) when the boys will be gone. For at least the first few months in this new routine, get yourself SCHEDULED. Stay busy. Stay active. Ironically then you will find that you start to cherish "home alone" quiet time....

Lexxxy, the troop withdrawal may have an impact, however it's too soon to tell. They can handle the drawdown in several different ways. We will still have many troops there and they can either send us at less than 100% or not at all. So far we are still going.

You are right (as usual) and I do now cherish my 'home alone' time. I've been keeping myself busy and doing things with the boys. It seems I never have enough time to do everything I want to do!

Things are going very well for me currently. I'm now 5 months post-D and it's been 3 months since Pinky moved out. What a world of difference in my life in this relatively short time, and almost all for the better.

I feel pretty good lately and dare I say 'recovered'? The dust has settled from the divorce and settlement and things aren't too bad. My boys seem to be doing pretty well and we have had a nice summer. Pinky has been lacking in her involvement with the boys, however she seems to be taking a greater interest as of late and that is a very good thing. I will continue to monitor very closely.

Our schedule with the boys has started to become more stable and predictable and seems to be working. Personally, I think I have become indifferent to my ex, which is good. It is very liberating to go for days on end without so much as a thought about her or what she is up to. We are still in regular contact but it's always about the boys and their future activities and such. No major issues with finances and we actually are cooperating very well.

I'm still seeking balance regarding managing my own time, but it's getting better. I still work a lot and have very few weekends to myself. When I have the boys I try my best to make it 'quality time'. I still have lots of plans on things I want to do with the house, but there is no rush.

I have been doing much better than expected in the dating world, and I think I am approaching it in a good way. I have met several very nice women and enjoy my time and communication with them. I stay very up front and open with my female interests and it seems to be working. I'm not really looking for any kind of long term relationships, but I'm not ruling it out if it were to develop either. I am really enjoying this casual dating thing and getting to know a variety of different women. I'm currently talking with 5 very nice women ranging from 28 to 44 and all of them are very nice! I think the nice thing is I don't feel 'driven' to go find somebody and don't feel the need for another person to fill a void. I can take it or leave it, which is a nice place to be. No pressure, no rush, and no worries.

I'm just continuing to try to be a good man and father. I've gotten back on my workout schedule and I'm also doing better at work. I try to keep things in balance and try not to let my dating or work take precedence over my time with the boys. So far, it seems to be working pretty well.

Limbo!!!!!

Good to see you my man!
I'm so glad to see you're doing well. It seems that you're handling things very smartly, but we've come to expect that. You continue to be a good example.

I think you did a lot of "recovering" before the D. However, it's a little different once it's all official; at least in my experience (and from reading here). So, I hope you'll take your time and enjoy the ride. What a couple years you had...I'm so happy you're out of that nightmare.

I was thinking today: I hate being divorced. It's still really sad for me and I still mourn for my kids. However, it really is not as bad as being in a relationship with someone who is unfaithful. I don't miss that part at all.

take care SOL

opt

How are things with you lately?

Hey Americajin! Thanks for asking. I've been away from here too long, lol.

Well, when you asked last week I was sky high on cloud 9. I have been dating a wonderful woman since July. One of my 'casual dating' partners I mentioned in my last post. She was the 28 year old. Then it happened... I slipped and fell in love. What a wonderful feeling, but also a tragic mistake.

I tried really hard to keep it in perspective, but I lost my perspective and went 'all in' emotionally. We were very into each other and clicked in all areas. Spent a lot of time together even though we live 2.5 hours away. She spent a couple weekends with me and I stayed with her twice. We started talking about a future together. Her changing jobs to be closer to me (she is also an AGR Warrant Officer in the guard), and I was talking about introducing her to the boys. We seemed to be in the same mindset. I abruptly ended all contact with anybody else as I was not interested in anyone else. All of this without having 'the talk' about really defining our relationship.

Then it happened. I'm such a fool. I fell for her, even when I knew I shouldn't have. I broke all the 'guy rules' on how to keep a woman interested. I opened up to her, shared all of me, and was way too available with her. I'm not really sure what is going on, but I suspect she has recently found someone else and is about to call things off with me. Just my gut instinct, which is usually pretty good.

Last we talked was Friday, and I had texted her several times over the weekend with no replies at all. Very odd for us as we have been in daily contact for the last two months or so. Finally yesterday I pushed to at least get a response and see if she was OK as I really was worried for her safety. I told her in voicemail/email, and text that if she hadn't lost her phone, she needs to at least respond to let me know she is safe and OK.

Here was her reply, "Sorry, I'm really not trying to be rude. I have something to talk to you about. There just hasn't been a good time to."

I told her I wanted to talk to her too and to please call as soon as she could.

Now this could mean any number of things really, but I am expecting the worst. I suspect she was with another guy all weekend and for whatever reason is about to dump me. We had never agreed to become comitted/exclusive, so I guess it is to be expected, however we were both talking A LOT about future plans.

Damn it hurts. Again.

It's the not hearing anything from her since Friday that is driving me nuts. My mind speculating and jumping to the worst case. Even now, just sitting waiting for her to maybe call tonight. I know I deserve better treatment regardless. I know I did nothing wrong here, other than 'tactical' mistakes in the courtship game. I have treated her with respect and kindess at all times. Just too much of a nice guy I guess. To me that pre-determined way of deciding how to act and when to call or text or when to 'pull back' stuff is a subtle form of manipulation.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I just don't feel comfortable intentionally trying to measure how I act or react with somebody I'm interested in being with. If I feel like texting or calling- or not, I just do it. Probably why I'm alone tonight and she hasn't called, lol.

I did see her today. Strange. I was heading one way and she another. I smiled and said hello. She asked how my work thing was going. I said it was going well and continued walking. I did have to get back. We both had business here for different reasons. After seeing her, I texted her and told her that when she was done with her meeting she could text me as I could break away from what I was doing to talk with her, otherwise I told her to call me when she could.

I think I get what's going on. Obviously she could/should have talked to me today as I know she had the opportunity after her meeting. She chose not to. I'm figuring she is afraid of my reaction to whatever it is she wants to tell me. Disappointing to say the least. I had told her early on how important honesty is to me and that an ugly truth is always better than a pretty lie.

I guess I'm just going to move on as the ball is in her court. We have to talk at some point since we have future activities planned and we both have some 'stuff' at each other's place. I'm wondering how long to wait for her to call me. I'm thinking after another week or so I may have to call her myself or send a message. I know I shouldn't pursue and to just give her time and space, but I do need to know.

I'm sure I seem like a bit of a basket case right now, but I know I'll be OK. This is nothing like what I've gone through with Pinky and if it's over, I'll dust myself off and continue marching. Overall, I still feel 100 times better today than I did 6 months ago!

Limb, its nice to hear from you.

So, you fell in love again eh? To be expected. Your soul was hurting, and this woman seem to be the answer.

She is 28? Well, her age may have something to do with her avoidance of telling you the "hard stuff" right now. It's a maturity thing, most often. Has she ever been married, or have any children? My guess is no.

I do have a little toe tapping going on over here though. What happened to waiting before you introduce the boys to any women? I think the best lesson you can take out of this experience is that you really should wait to introduce them to women. You don't want them to see the possible revolving door that can happen while dating.

There are a whole host of "things" that she wants to speak to you about, so I won't dissect that. It's normal for the human brain to jump to the worst case scenario. And with what has happened to you in the last couple of years, it's no surprise. Take care big brother.

Thanks Scotty. I agree that it is probably a maturity thing. She turns 29 in two weeks, but despite her recent avoidance behavior, she has shown maturity beyond her years. She is also divorced however has no children.

I think I need to clarify about the introduction. She has NOT met my boys. I mentioned that I had talked about it. Basically, I was very clear with her from the start that I will not introduce my boys to anyone unless we had been together for a few months in an exclusive relationship and I felt very confident that it was going to be a LTR.

As she and I would talk about things we would like to do together, she mentioned that she often thinks about and looks forward to doing things with me and my boys, like fishing. I would frequently tell her about what me and the boys were doing and sometimes send pictures. I think I said that I look forward to doing things together (meaning the 4 of us) down the road. I was thinking that in a month or two maybe have her go to a movie with us, or go to lunch together. Slow, gradual introduction.

We also talked about children in general. She had said that she did not want to have children herself, but liked kids. Just didn't want to go through pregnancy and birth.

I also realize that there could be any number of things that she wants to talk about, however her actions certainly speak to it being something she is uncomfortable with. Time will tell.

The feelings of being a basket case shouldn't last long. You haven't known this woman long enough to get really deeply attached. What have you learned from this relationship? If you got a do-over what would you do differently?

And, no, these are not rhetorical questions. I really want to know because I'm about ready to start dating and haven't a clue how to handle it as a divorced parent. My life is not the same as when I was in my 20s.

(((LIMB!!!)))
Good to see you, man!
I was wondering about you a lot lately. I've had a couple minutes to post so, I've been hanging around in the last week or so. I was hoping you were okay. Now I see you were Very okay, lol.

You'll move past this. The pain is so temporary - I speak with a small amount of experience. But at least you can say you had a nice experience and once you look back on the good times, there will be no regrets. Sounds like a nice girl, but just not ready for you yet.
There are a million out there. Find one closer to home next time, it's way easier. .
***Hopefully A Good Guy will post soon -- he has good advice in these matters...***

Hope the boys are well. Back in school. How is your custody arrangement? Was I correct to assume you see them a little more than 50%? Are you able to visit when it's not your "days" or do you have to stay away? Do you call them a lot? Do they seem to be adjusting to the decrease in drama and tension???

take care.
opt

I did the same thing, SOL. In retrospect I don't blame the woman at all as I probably scared the crap out of her because like you I started out slowly but I didn't stay that way. Really nice girl and I blew it. If I ever run across her again I would apologize because I realize I was pretty foolish. I also dated a woman who was talking about taking our relationship to "another level" after less than a month, so I did take it to another level, I took it to "over".

Gut check - remember, it hasn't been that long since your divorce, for women guys that have recently divorced stamped on their forehead make their internal robot cry out "Danger, Will Robinson" because they're damaged emotionally even though they can't or won't see it themselves. Remember the old axiom "those who fall in love easily also fall out of love easily", I wouldn't even mention the "L" word or talk about exclusivity until at least 6 - 9 months of dating.

You were eating vanilla for a long time, my friend, and you seem to want to get back to vanilla again right away, but Baskin and Robbins has a LOT of different flavors. Why don't you try some of them to see what you like and don't like before settling back into plain old vanilla?

And as I said to you in the past, be especially careful to recognize those poor souls with kids and bills they're having trouble paying, you look like a bonfire on their infrared target sensors.

Ugh.

SOL,

Sorry to hear about the latest developments... If it helps at all, many of us here have BTDT. As others have said, recent divorcees (especially those who have been cheated on and treated like crap) are very susceptible to falling head over heels for the first person who shows an interest in them and treats them well.

I don't think you did anything wrong by being open and available, instead of being "the guy". I think the problem is that this particular woman was looking for a different type of guy, and that is her prerogative and loss. I have my met my share of women who wanted that type of guy, and since I was not "it", I was happy to let them keep looking for him .

Conversely, I also met my share of women who liked the open and available type of guy, in fact I married one of them. So they do exist - you just need to find them.

That whole line about "didn't mean to be rude" shows a severe lack of maturity and honesty, two dealbreakers IMO. So as much as the loss hurts (and it definitely does), you are much better off to have seen this side of her now than after introducing her to your boys or moving further along in the relationship.

I would not change your approach to dating. I just think you need ot be a little more careful with your heart, you do need to protect it at first.

As for this woman, I think you need to minimize contact - tell her you need to pick up your stuff and give her her stuff, and to work out whatever future plans you have made - and then wait for her to reply. After that, cold turkey.

AGG

Why the "Ugh"?

I'm sorry, _SOL. Some of what I read is obviously just going on inside your head, but the external data is hard to ignore. It DOES seem like your new relationship has suddenly gone south. And without knowing why, I can see why it's having such an effect on you. It's probably the not knowing that's worse. Am I wrong?

I remember reading and participating in your thread as your new life seemed to be unfolding. I remember thinking to myself how fortunate you were, and if only I could be as fortunate.

It seems things have gone the opposite direction for us. I've so completely jumped off the dating carousel that I can speak with, work with and associate with women that I would otherwise find devastatingly attractive, and feel absolutely nothing toward them. Which is funny, since I joined a training program that turns out to be mostly women, and to me they are nothing more than training partners!

Unlike some of the posters here, I do see dating as an "interview process." Dancing Girl and I went out a few times, but it was clear to me that nothing more was going to come out of it, and while I might find something to do the both us might enjoy together, I'm not out looking for those opportunities these days.

No risk, no reward, _SOL. It would seem you took the risk, but found there was no reward.

This time.

Keep trying!

Just doesn't set well with me how you characterize " those poor souls with kids and bills they're having trouble paying" as women that SOL should avoid.

Exactly. Different people want different things.

I wanted the open and available guy...I married him.

Well, I am sorry for that, however there are women out there that would view SOL (and other recently divorced service members) as attractive prospects to a better life. Been there, didn't do that, because I saw plenty of my fellow soldiers make this mistake. For SOL, it would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

I guess my perspective would be a bit different than yours as I am a man. Perhaps for women it would be "try to avoid men who can't hold a job and look at you as a free ride".

I see a huge difference between a man who can't hold down a job and a woman who has children with bills she can't pay.

A woman who has children and bills she can't pay (and there are all kinds of degrees to that situation) isn't necessarily precluded as a good mate based upon that circumstance.

The point I am trying to make, apparently not all that well, is that he should try to avoid women that look at him as a paycheck and/or replacement Dad, for what he can do for them instead of as a loving partner. You know, there ARE people, both men and women, who marry people just for financial gain or to get themsleves out of a tough situation. I feel badly for the latter, but SOL's job is not to save the world, SOL's job is to someday find a partner that is right for him.

If you were a single woman with kids before you were married, got married to a great guy solely because you loved him and he loved you, and didn't use any deception to get him to do so, well obviously what I said doesn't apply to you. I'm not trying to say that ALL single moms are looking to get married for the wrong reasons, just like single Dads are not, but there ARE those that do. And in our society, making the wrong choice in a marriage partner has pretty bad financial consequences for a guy, especially when you are already paying child support.

Explanation understood.

Ty.

SOL -

As far as rebounders go, you didn't do so bad. Only coming out a little older, wiser, and mostly intact.

Chalk it up for what it was. A learning experience.
You're still healing - try not to go "all in" so quickly.
Take a little more time to evaluate the long term potential.

Ever watch the movie "how to lose a guy in 10 days" with Kate Hudson and Matthew McConoughy? Kinda funny -- they both set out to do everything wrong on purpose.

My daughter has been dating her boyfriend for a year, and he's getting on her last nerve -- he comes up with the idea that they should go to "couples therapy". Seriously???? If you have relationship issues in your early twenties you should BREAK UP.....not therapy!

Wow! So many great, helpful posts. Thank you all. I want to respond to some things but just got home from a social event and it's very late. Will try to get on tomorrow because there was some good stuff here!

Just to update, she finally did call me today. It was too much too soon and she didn't want to be in a comitted relationship. We really weren't, but we acted as if we were. It was a good talk and we left it as friends. I realize now that it was doomed from the start anyway, however now I know to pay better attention to the red flags and pace myself!

Went out with about 130 of my full-time work friends for a social event and had a great time. I'm sure I will continue to reflect on this relationship in order to understand better, but at least I'm not pining for her and actually talking to her about things helped tremendously. You are right Fred, the not knowing what was really going on is far worse than knowing it's over.

I've dusted myself off and now look forward to the next chapter!

Oh, I should probably add that I talked with Pinky about this yesterday and today. She had called me yesterday about the boys and caught me while I was sounding down and she kept asking me what was wrong, so I explained that my dating partner and I were done. Kind of odd really, but we actually had a decent conversation about dating post-divorce and both shared some of our experiences.

Not sure how healthy it was for me to talk to her about anything other than the boys. She was supportive and I needed it. Apparently we have both made some of the same errors. It was just odd to actually talk with her again about something of substance. Not sure what if anything that means. No, I don't see us becoming close 'friends' after this and I have no intention of continuing this conversation or starting any other dialogs with her other than day to day parenting stuff.

Just my take, and I may be completely wrong, but...

This person (pinky) is someone you loved and shared your life with for years. Unlike the revisionist fog, you guys really related to each other for much of that.

If you are really over her (and I think you are, you grieved for a long time when you were trying to save things), then I think it's OK now and then to have a meaningful conversation with your EX.

As long as you keep in perspective and it doesn't set your healing back, then it's OK.

Not me, schtoop. My ex gives me the heeby-jeebies. I don�t want her opinion on anything. Unfortunately, she still has a hand in raising my kids, so I have to consider her side on many things, and fortunately we agree mostly. She doesn�t deserve to know personal stuff about my dating though, that�s for sure.
Limb, I think pink caught you in a weak moment and you gave her some satisfaction/camaraderie that she didn�t deserve. My ex has not transformed into someone with whom I feel I can have a meaningful conversation yet (no offense, schtoop, just saying...)

I have to admit, I�ve grown stronger in my stance to not grant the fantasy divorce as time has gone on. It�s difficult not to lean on someone who was your partner for many years, especially at first.

Just some thoughts.

opt

Remember, it is very dangerous for any future relationships having conversations of a personal nature with an Ex.

Limb, I believe the same as Opt.

Just be careful

Surprisingly, I did actually get pretty deeply attached. I had dated a few other women before her, however I had never felt this immediate connection with anyone before, to include my ex. She had stated to me that she felt this way too, and that was before I said anything about how I felt about her.

I went into this 'dating relationship' hoping that she would compliment my life which has been going pretty well lately. Instead, she sort of became my life.

If I had a do-over, I would certainly have guarded my own heart a little better. I would not have shared quite so much about how I was currently feeling regarding 'us'. We definitely fed off each other and fueled the fires so to speak. Ended up burning out much too quickly.

I learned that what it is that I am truly seeking is that feeling of 'connectedness'. I learned that next time I should enjoy the intense feelings of a new relationship, however be a little more mysterious about sharing how I'm feeling. I was far too open and available and I suspect she no longer viewed me as a challenge or interesting enough possibly. She has told me that she wants to be friends now mainly because she didn't want to be in a committed relationship. We weren't in a committed relationship, however with the communicating daily and seeing each other whenever possible, we sure acted like it. I think that scared her a bit.

She is even more recently divorced than I am, so it's all a bit new to both of us. I will probably see her again in about a month and take her to dinner in 'friend' status. We have texted a couple times since our conversation. I'm moving on, but I would like to date her casually down the road if she is so inclined. I don't think she knows what she wants. I'm not really sure I do either, other than the connection and the feelings that come with intimacy (not just physical). I found that in her and she found that in me. I think it scared her off a bit because part of her doesn't want to date just one guy yet. Kind of funny because when we first started talking I told her she should date a 'bunch of guys' and see what she likes.

OK, this one may be a little 'blue', but you asked what I'd do differently. Next time I am physically intimate with someone that I really like, I will treat it like it's the last time we may have the opportunity to engage in sexual activity. I was taking things relatively slow thinking we would have plenty of time to continue to learn about each other physically.

Biggest take-away for me is that even if I feel like this may be 'love', to hold out for a while and be absolutely certain before going 'all-in'. I would give it more time and be sure that she felt the same way and that her actions matched her words.

Opt my brother! Great to see you too. You are right and I am starting to move past this, feeling better every day now. That is how I am looking at it too- I had an awesome two months sharing time with an incredible, hot 28 year old, lol. What's not to like? I've learned a bit from the experience and that's a good thing too. I can see now that she really probably isn't 'the one' for me, but it was real fun thinking that she might be for a while. The only regret was what I mentioned in my previous post, but it is really no-biggie. We had a lot of fun in that area too!

The boys are doing very well now. Things aren't perfect for them and they are still adjusting, but overall they are both much better. Custody arrangement is working out well too. Pinky lives 3/4 mile down the road so it is very convenient for both of us. She has become more involved with them and is getting better at showing some affection (from what I can tell). She is much more active than I with the dating, but has finally figured out to do her socializing when I'm SCHEDULED to have the boys. Works so much better for all of us.

Early on I had them 80-90% of the time. In the month of June she had them just a couple nights. Around mid-July she started following the schedule so it is much closer to 50/50. I still have to do some traveling for work and she takes them when I'm gone and 'pays me back' the time later. For example I was gone this week for work so in October I have them an additional week. In fact, I have them for like 21 days of the month. This month she will have them 16 days and me 14. Like I said, it's getting closer but the time scale still tips towards me, and that is just fine by me.

There have been some nights when one or both boys want to stay with me and she allows it. There was also two nights last month when she actually requested the boys to stay with her and I allowed as well. We really are working pretty well together.

Americajin, I believe you and a few others warned me that something like this would happen. I really was trying to guard against it. Like you, things just went into hyper-drive and now here I sit trying to figure it out, lol.

We really didn't directly talk about the "L" word, however we spoke it through music lyrics. I know, sounds very high school, but we are both into similar music and were talking about songs. There is this song by Lifehouse called "Falling in" that she said the lyrics matched what she was feeling. It really is a nice little song.

"Everytime I see your face
My heart takes off on a high speed chase
Now don't be scared, it's only love
That we're falling in
I would never do you wrong
Or let you down or lead you on
Don't look down, it's only love
Baby, that we're falling in

I'm standing in your driveway
It's midnight and I'm sideways
I have, to find, out if you feel the same
Won't be easy, have my doubts too
But it's over, without you I'm just lost, incomplete
Yeah you feel like home, home to me "

So in my head I took that as she was telling me she felt like she was falling in love with me. I was a goner after that, lol. I did intend to keep things light for at least 4-6 months however I completely lost interest in anyone else. Things just spun out of control much too quickly until she got scared by it. I suspect she still has strong feelings too, but I think it best to back way off for about a month and then see where we are at.

I do fully understand what you are saying about some women looking for a provider only, however I think they are pretty easy to recognize. That has not been the case with any of the women I have met, to include this one. She is very self sufficient.

Thanks AGG. Like I was saying earlier, I really thought I was protecting myself from falling for the first person to treat me nicely. In fact, she was my 4th multiple date partner. I managed quite well with the first 3.

I should add that she finally did call me later in the afternoon on the 22nd. She was a bit busy, but also was clearly avoiding. The whole maturity thing. I politely let her know that with me, or anyone else in the future, that type of behavior is not a good thing. I told her that bad news doesn't get better with age. She did apologize for whatever that's worth.

You are absolutely right and that is the main thing I have learned- to protect my own heart better. We have minimized contact and I will not be contacting her myself for about a month. I have to travel to Chicago at the end of next month and when we talked we said we would go out for dinner. This will also allow me to pick up my stuff and return hers. She texted me earlier today and I replied and it was all friendly and light. I will not make first contact but will reply if she does.

Fred, I'm sorry to say your post sounds a bit sad to me. You were right about the not knowing being worse than the break up itself. Fortunately it didn't take that long to hear from her.

Why do you think you have lost interest in the 'search'? Even with it's ups and downs I have found it to be an enjoyable experience overall. It is hard, especially with the boys, but it certainly keeps life interesting for me. I feel more engaged with life when I'm talking to others or dating.

Like you said perfectly, no risk- no reward. Hang in there brother.

Thanks Lexxy. Always nice to hear from you!

Point taken about not going all-in and taking more time to really evaluate the LTR potential. This was what I intended to do, but we said things to each other that made us act as if we were already there, ya know? I see that now and won't make the same mistake. I hope anyway!

Have not seen the movie but will try to now. That is sort of funny about your daughter. Hope she move on.

Schoop, I tend to fall in with Opt and Scotty on this one. She did catch me at a very weak moment literally. She had called me about 90 minutes after I received the text from my girl and I was in a bad spot in my head.

The more I think about it the more I don't like that it happened. I do think she was well intentioned, but there is still just way too much between us for me to feel comfortable sharing anything meaningful with her as it relates to me personally. She lost that right. And frankly, I really don't care how she is doing emotionally with her dating and moving on. As long as it doesn't affect her ability to care for my boys when they are with her.

Hey, _SOL. Sad? I don't feel sad about my current status, other than I wish I had full-time employment, and health care that would allow me to get my back/leg fixed so I could run carefree again.

Right now, dating for me would seem forced and contrived. I think that I'm better off just not putting too much "thought investment" into it, and if someone comes along that lights things up, well, we'll just see how things go then.

Thanks for your reply, _SOL.

SOL, when you come on here and start making noises about getting serious and contemplating marriage, we'll start having a discussion about what it's like getting married again and having your new spouse start telling you how you should be interacting with your kids and their mother - among other things. I wish I had found this site several decades ago and read the section on POJA until the print faded, would have saved me some difficult times in my life. Before you even think of remarrying, you need to POJA EVERYTHING in your future relationship before saying I do. If your prospective spouse can't/won't do that, don't get married.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, just because someone says "I love you" doesn't require you to respond in kind with an "I love you too". You can say some variation of "I really have more than superficial feelings for you but am uncertain if I am ready to say I love you to anyone. Why don't we keep seeing each other and see how things go?" If it is real, the person won't go away; if it isn't the denouement will be swift and inexorable.

Don't be in an all fired hurry to find the next Mrs SOL. What's the old saw, act in a hurry, repent at your leisure? Dating doesn't come with the implied promise of marriage. And don't be so sure about being able to recognize someone who is dating under false pretenses. There are women out there with plans so detailed that they rival an op order for an overseas unit deployment. Playing it slow does expose them when your relationship isn't hitting key milestones in an efficient military manner.

Practical hand-on experience has made me somewhat cynical, but sometimes cynicism is a good thing. It makes you be certain not only of your partner's motives, but also your own, makes you question yourself and see things for how they really are instead of simply how you want them to be. Partnered with patience, it enables you to determine what it is that you really want and not settle for less just because less is standing right in front of you.

Duly noted, however I have no intentions of remarrying anytime soon. I am in no hurry whatsoever to find the next Mrs. SOL. I had intended to date casually for a couple years and was managing quite well until the latest girl. Left me trying to figure out what the heck happened and I think I did.

Good point about not reciprocating the emotions too. I did 'feel' it though. I see now what was going on. I guess it's called "Fast Forwarding" in dating. Very interesting dynamic. Here is the article on it and it is exactly what happened to me. I got swept away in it.

Fast Forward

Live and learn.

SOL!

So you found Natalie's site! Good for you! She really tells it like it is...kind of a British version of Melodylane! I found her site shortly after my first serious post-D relationship ended. The guy was and is a true AC as Natalie calls him. (He periodically texts me asking to "hook up" or making lewd comments about my undergarments....he does this knowing that I am engaged to be married....and having just become engaged himself! What a jerk!)

Reading the articles on Natalie's site really helped me learn a lot about myself, dating and the kind of no-good guys I was attracted to both before I married WXH and after our D. I am now engaged to and very much in love with a man who is nothing like the Mr. Unavailables and AC's described on Baggage Reclaim. I would never have given him a second thought before Baggage Reclaim but after reading there, see what a real relationship is and how different it truly is.

Keep reading there...is very educational!

So do you think you fastforwarded her or she you?

Its not that hard to figure out really.

Its like being really thirsty, when you finally get a drink -- its hard not to gulp it!

You spent the last several years having your most important needs ignored. So finally a gal comes along who's interested and willing to meet them. Its hard to hold back and tell her to just meet a few of them slowly...

And you're "that" kind of guy. Not into the meaningless need-meeting. So it must be love, right?

Sorry, SOL, it was predictable...hehehe

Brit, that was a very easy to understand article. I haven't read anything else on there yet though, but I will now that you so highly recommend it. Plus I need to go back there and figure out what an "AC" guy is. I will read on, thanks.

SW- She clearly Fast Forwarded me initially. She fit so many of those 'warning signs'.


On our second date she told me she thought I was 'the one'. She definitely made me feel like I was the center of her universe. She initiated talk of future plans/activities together. I think I shared earlier just how 'intense' this was feeling. We became sexually intimate on our third date.

In short order, I think I started doing it too. In my own defense, it was an incredible ego-boost to be desired and pursued by a 28 year old hottie!! I lost my grip on reality and got swept away with it all, just like the article said. I started buying into what she was telling me and we both talked about how strange it was to feel so connected to someone in such a short time. She talked about moving closer and changing jobs. I was just like, "hell yeah, this is great!"

I had some reservations but all too easily pushed them back in my head. Like Lexxxy says, it really was predictable and I was ripe for this kind of reaction. Add my own 'thirst' to her behavior, and I was a goner! Then it sort of ended last week as quickly as it started. I figure she either found a new target, or as the article suggests, panicked about not being able to live up to the behavior she was showing for the long term. I have to say that it was the best time I've had in many, many years though. I really was the happiest guy on earth for a little while. I still feel pretty good too.

Now that I've had a little time to look back and critically look at what happened, I can see that we fit into this Fast Forward thing. Makes me feel a whole lot better to understand the dynamics instead of doubting myself once again thinking I had done something wrong here. What had troubled me most was I knew I was still a little vulnerable to female attention and went into this thinking to be on guard and take it slow. I needed to understand how and why I was unable to. I think I get it now.

So now as I go forward from here, I really want to talk to her about what happened and why. Not in a way to try to continue our relationship, although I wouldn't mind continuing to date her now and then. I have known her for a while and she really is a sweet girl. I want to try to share this information with her so that we both may learn from it as we go forward. I think it would help her with future relationships as well because I don't think she is aware of what she was doing. I know this will be tricky, and I am not pursuing her or contacting her at all. I will wait for her to contact me again. We will talk again soon though. She is going on a cruise with a friend next week and I plan to tell her to have a good time and that when she gets back we should talk. As Americajin would understand, I want to AAR what happened with her! I think we would both benefit from a good conversation about it, without any expectations of 'us' having a future together outside of friendship.

We'll see how it goes. Until then, I have a date tomorrow night. I'll be ok.

This is interesting how you state this -- I am curious, if a woman is self sufficient (especially sans children) wouldn't that possibly make her want more of a provider in a man? This leaves her the option of being a stay at home mom.

What makes a provider only easy to recognize? This woman being 28, her ovaries are ticking. Did she discuss more kids? HOw does one handle this in dating. If a divorced man has kids and his new girlfriend none, what makes her want this man if half his salary goes to the ex-spouse? I would think many young women in their twenties and early thirties would have these exact thoughts.

Tough

Everytime I read something here about 'watch out for those women looking for a provider' I feel my spine stiffen. What is wrong with wanting a provider? In fact, it is listed as one of the top 10 ENs.

I guess if you happen to be a man who doesn't WANT to have to provide for a woman, then you better be really up front about that.

And if you are a woman who never wants children and plans to work at your own job/career for the rest of your life, then great! That kind of man will appeal to you.

So therefore, what appears to be more important is the level honesty. A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Or you could have a single mom without an income to speak of who is very upfront regarding her desire to find a man who is capable of supporting her and her kids. It doesn't mean she won't be a good mate.

I just wish we could change the wording--instead of 'watch out for those single moms who might (gasp) NEED something from you, how about 'watch out for dishonesty.'

Rant over.

Excellent point SW. It IS about the dishonesty when you come right down to it, and not whether or not somebody is looking for a partner to help provide.

I think where this main issue is coming from when americajin brought it up is that there is a specific group of women that actually target military guys as a way 'out' of their present situation. Many military posts are located in or near economically challenged towns. Near every post main gate you will see scores of pawn shops, 'title loan' places, tattoo parlors, liquor stores, and strip clubs.

Many of these communities exist solely on the economy from the local base. There are countless businesses that take advantage of young Soldiers. Likewise, there are some people that view hooking up with a Soldier as a way out of their town. At basic training we are warned about being careful about this. It still happens. They don't really love the Soldier, they just know that he gets a steady paycheck.

I have no issues with a woman looking for somebody to meet the EN of financial security. Especially if they are struggling and have children. What I do have issues with is if that is the only thing they are looking for and use dishonesty to get it. I have not encountered someone like this myself, but I do know some guys who have been taken advantage of in this regard. For example, one guy I deployed with fell in love and got married shortly before the deployment. When he left he gave his wife legal power of attorney to handle things while he was gone. When he got home, there was another family living in his house. His wife had sold his house, took everything he had and was pregnant with another man. This stuff does happen.

When I said they are 'easy to recognize', I was referring to some women's profiles on online dating sites.

To answer your questions Tough, we did discuss future plans about children. She told me she had no desire to have children of her own, however liked kids. Just didn't want to go through pregnancy. In fact, she told me it was an issue in her previous marriage because she told her ex that before they ever got married and yet after marriage he was pushing her to have children. I'm not sure what goes through the woman's mind on the other end of things. I suspect that financial security is one of many things that end up being discussed before you progress to a LTR. In my own case, my ex does not get 'half' my salary. I'm doing OK financially. Not great, but ok.

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Everytime I read something here about 'watch out for those women looking for a provider' I feel my spine stiffen.

Well, you might want to get out the old BenGay before reading this one.

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Or you could have a single mom without an income to speak of who is very upfront regarding her desire to find a man who is capable of supporting her and her kids. It doesn't mean she won't be a good mate.

This is the equivalent of a guy being upfront saying he wants a woman to keep his house clean and have sex whenever he needs it. How many women are going to jump at a prize like this? He may be husband of the year material for all we know, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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I guess if you happen to be a man who doesn't WANT to have to provide for a woman, then you better be really up front about that.

I would be very upfront about that. A man wants a woman that loves him for who he is as a person (as I imagine most women would also) not for his ability to make enough money so that the woman could stay home and not work. As a young man, I would want to first have a woman that loves me for me and that I love in return. Then we can start contemplating marriage and building a life together, plan out common goals as to having children, how many and when. How we are going to raise those children, where we will live, how much money do we both agree that we will need and how to get it. Those goals may or may not call for the wife to work, they may allow for a woman to be a SAHM, depends on a lot of factors.

The primary relationship in the marriage is the husband and wife, and I think that too many people lose sight of this. A man wants to work to support his family, and by work, I don't just mean what provides a paycheck. The two partners should be working at ensuring the partnership survives, that it is the primary goal in the marriage, instead of the children being the primary relationship. That is why divorce is sky-high now and that women are the ones who file the majority of divorces, because the primary relationship is NOT between man and wife it is between wife and children. Once children are born, for some women the husband is no longer important except as a source of income to allow the women to stay at home with her children. If the marriage fails, it's ok because the courts will give her sufficient money to keep those children on her own, at least until she can find another man to fulfill the role as provider.

Are we talking about finding a man that you can love for the rest of your life, or are we talking about finding a caretaker, someone who can pay for a woman to stay at home and have children. That�s not a loving relationship, it�s a job. A provider - can't begin to tell you how much I dislike that term. When I (and many other men) hear a woman describe her husband and the first thing (and sometimes ONLY thing) that comes out of her mouth is that he�s a good provider, then I know that the woman does not love her husband for who he is as a person. He�s not a husband per se, he�s an employee. He�s not an equal loving partner, he�s a life support system, he�s there to support the woman so that she doesn�t have to do it herself.

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A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Thank you, you hit the nail right on the head here. You see women who post here from time to time that will say that they married their husband for the wrong reason and that they never really loved him, and a lot of people here will say that it is just a WS reinventing marital history. I disagree, I think that there are probably quite a few women who get married to someone that they don�t love because they weren�t particularly interested in what kind of soulmate they would be but rather someone with a chance for a successful and lucrative career so that the wife doesn�t have to work. They get married and go on to have kids, and after that �SURPRISE- they find that they don�t want to be with a husband they don�t love, so they start cheating, get caught and divorced, and the poor duped husband is now paying a lot of money in child support for kids that he sees every other weekend. All because he was duped into believing that his wife loved him. Ever see a guy marry someone that said straight up �I don�t love you�? Of course not. So what happens is the woman lies and suckers him into marrying her so she doesn�t have to support herself. If you marry someone that doesn�t love you from the get go, how can you expect it to ever work? Men understand this, hell it�s a crapshoot even when you DO love each other, but some women will marry men that they don�t love because of money or a desire to have someone take care of them.

Look, I know you're not going to ever agree with me. What may be interesting is to show your husband this thread and get his opinion of what both you and I have written. I'll bet a pretty interesting conversation ensues.

Good. Then a woman who has that need would not waste her time considering you as a potential mate.


Well of course life happens. Men lose their jobs or get hurt and maybe I will have to go to work someday. Just like women sometimes have medical issues that make sex impossible or they get sick and can't clean the house the way she once did.


You said a lot of stuff in the above paragraphs....Wanting
financial support does not equal any of that....it doesn't mean a woman will put the children first, it doesn't mean she doesn't love her husband and it doesn't mean they aren't equal partners. I just means she has identified her needs and relayed that information to him. Just as he should do.

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A 28 year old self sufficient childless woman could very easily be looking for a man to provide for her so that she can have babies and stay home to raise them. However, since that appears to be such a turn off to many men, she might not be honest about that.

Again, what you are describing is dishonesty. THAT is the problem. And that character flaw has nothing to do with knowing and relaying your emotional needs.


I will show it to him. You might be surprised.

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On our second date she told me she thought I was 'the one'. She definitely made me feel like I was the center of her universe. She initiated talk of future plans/activities together. I think I shared earlier just how 'intense' this was feeling. We became sexually intimate on our third date.

You don't need an after action report, SOL. You just need to know that you dodged a big bullet here. She sprung the ambush too soon as you weren't in the kill zone and you were able to get through it with no casualties. Lesson learned.

I'm going to tell you something else. You have sex with either this woman, or someone else that tells you you're the one after a week or so, you'd best be supplying your own contraception and (sorry for being graphic here folks) ensuring you are disposing of your genetic material by flushing it down the toilet afterwards, not putting it in the trash can, etc, where it could be retrieved afterward.

I knew a guy once that had a girlfriend that he was thinking of breaking up with but was unsure of what he wanted to do. He asked a friend (not me) for advice. He stayed with the girl. They had sex at her place instead of his apartment which was their usual spot; she had already told him she was on the pill and they routinely used condoms as a fail-safe, fortunately she had some at her place. Well she got pregnant. We all thought that was really strange as they were using two forms of birth control, but he said it was just a freak accident, didn't suspect his girlfriend at all

That was the deciding factor for him, he did what he thought was the right thing and married her. What a disaster the marriage was. I ended up PCSing out of the unit.

Later, his wife had a falling out with a friend. The friend told the husband that back before they got married, his aforementioned friend had talked to his then-girlfriend to see if he could save the relationship. He did this because he thought his friend was just confused as to what he wanted to do and he was going to help his buddy. The girlfriend panicked because she really wanted to marry this guy, and so she punched several holes with a pin through the middle of the wrapper of the condom, and made sure she was the one that opened it and put it on him. It didn't break and he was none the wiser. Then the friend dropped the other shoe - his girlfriend was never on the pill. Needless to say, that was the final nail in the coffin for their marriage. I found out from a friend I'd kept in touch with. I won't bore you with what happened in court.

The moral of this story is - use your own condoms SOL, so you don't ending up being the "one" both literally and figuratively.

Just thought I'd mention...
Sex clouds one's thinking, it can draw you into the relationship faster than it ought to develop and can keep you from seeing/thinking clearly. It complicates things. If you want to proceed at a safer pace and see clearly, abstain. It's best to wait for the relationship that is more worthy of commitment.

That's really good advice.

:taking notes:

Americajin- I understand what you mean there. I don't think I was in any danger of that with this girl. Like I've said, I have known her for some time and even before I really got to know her, I knew she was of good character and is a decent person. She is a fellow warrant after all. I do have my own condoms.

Kay- I can understand what you are saying and actually agree in a rational way. Much easier said than done however. With my recent dating partner here, I started off slowly and told her a few times that I am a very patient man. I didn't push for us to be intimate at all. She was definitely the initiator, and I was very attracted to her. Not sure if I know how to say 'not yet' as a man, ya know? It probably was too soon, but it felt right at the time and sure seemed like we were heading towards a longer relationship. That whole 'fast forwarding' thing.

I went to that DivorceCare thing a while back and still receive daily emails from the program. Recently there were quite a few about abstaining. Certainly strengthens the argument to wait. Talks about how sex builds a special God-given bond and the dangers of the emotional bond that then develops too.

Ok, I think I just need to vent a little here. My ex called today asking if I could take the boys today instead of tomorrow per our schedule. Not really a big deal as I don't ever mind taking them. It's just dealing with 'her' that is bugging me. It's the same stuff she was pulling when she first moved out. She claims she 'forgot' it was her weekend with the boys. How how do you do that?

We switch every Monday. She had them all week and then sent them off with her parents for the weekend. She was supposed to meet her parents or receive them back sometime today, keep them through tomorrow and then I get the boys after school for my week.

Turns out she dropped the boys off with her parents on Friday and ran off to Chicago for the weekend with some guy. Now I really don't care who she is dating or where for that matter. But she calls me today saying she is in Chicago and can't meet her family on time because she 'forgot' and wants me to pick them up tonight and just keep through my week. Forgot. Give me a freakin' break.

Then she goes on to tell me that she either is thinking of quitting her work or is preparing to be fired from her job on Tuesday. I could use some expert guidance here on the financial aspect of that regarding my child support to her. As it is now, I pay her 28% of my monthly net pay minus 28% of her net pay. Now if she stops getting paid for whatever reason, how soon does my child support go up? Does the fact that she chooses to quit have any impact?

Not a good day. At least my Bears won. Ok, I feel a little better now.

Dh and I discussed my post and your post at length. He feels about it just the way about it that I thought he would. I believe his exact words were 'identify the need, fill the need.'

He and I came out of long term marriages and we had a real sense of what we wanted and didn't want in the next mate.

Here is how our process went...granted too fast for most of you, but that is another thread.

Introduced by long time mutual friends at a small cookout at friend's home. Initial attraction. Check one.

Discussed our (common) religion, our recent activity, our long term committment to the faith and religion and to serving our God. Check two

Discussed how important our children are to us. Check three.

Discussed income situation, my very strong desire to continue homeschooling my son and how we both felt about the effect two parents working has on family life. Check four.

Discussed expectations for how we treat each other and others, how the home is kept, how I feel about his slightly OCD tendencies. Check four.

As we felt we were moving into very serious territory, we further discussed our children...how to deal with Xs, how to discipline our children, how to discipline each other's children...Check five.

More convinced we were serious about each other we discussed sex. A lot. And since we were both mid 40 and had both previously been married for over 20 years each, we had a lot of life experience in SF. Note we did not engage in sex of any kind prior to the wedding...and we have an amazing sex life. Check six.

That is how it progressed for us. We each told each other our needs and we each said 'yes, I can meet that need.'

This took an INCREDIBLE amount of personal honesty. I was very scared to tell him that I don't want to stop homeschooling which means I can't really work. But that is VERY important to me and I didn't want to have the regret of down playing my feelings on that.

Similar honesty was required by both of us on the topic of SF. Our honesty to each other has proved to be a real blessing in that area as well.


I see my relationship with dh as very much in line with MB. We relayed our needs, we work hard to meet those needs and it keeps us VERY much in love with each other.

I hope SOL can find such a love someday.

quick t/j

Smilingwoman, just curious, is his ex a WS too?

I love your story!

Yes. She is a WW. He never was.

Thanks for liking my story.

Per my other response on the "how do you know when you're ready to date" thread, I AM NOT READY, but I think it would be ideal to heal with someone that has dealt with a wayturd too. You both have a unique perspective, can relate to the unbelievable pain, and I think, would work extra hard to affair proof your M.

SOL, thanks for letting me t/j.

Going over to the other thread you mentioned now.

Thanks for sharing your story SW, and thanks for your hopes. I really hope so too.

Oh and Migs....feel free to t/j anytime you like!

I have bad news. If she were the father, the fact that she chose to quit her job would mean that the judge would yell at her and tell her that her responsibility didn't change. But since she's the mother, the judge may cut her some slack.

Your only recourse is to get a higher percentage of custody. I hope you've been documenting all the times that she has asked you to take the kids on her time. It might be possible to go back to court and get the custody agreement changed.

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But since she's the mother, the judge may cut her some slack.

Why?

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It might be possible to go back to court and get the custody agreement changed.

I'll agree with this. SOL, I would ask your lawyer if there has been enough time to establish a pattern of irresponsibility in the way she cares for the kids, i.e. going off to Chicago with men she barely knows while dumping them on her parents? Perhaps if she realizes that it would be advantageous to her both socially and financially to give you custody of the kids with her having liberal visitation? It would take a little bit to convince her she is not being a bad mother by doing this but is actually showing she cares deeply for her kids by letting them live with you fulltime as you seem better able to handle it.

I may try that route with her, but quite frankly I don't see her agreeing to anything that would reduce my CS to her, as giving me the boys would. It's almost exactly what I tried to get her to agree to before the divorce. I even would have paid her some money each month just to get her to agree to it. She wouldn't have it then. I suspect more out of how that would make her 'look' to others.

Well then, there's your protection.

If she chooses to go before a judge to get more CS from you, then that's your time to show how much you've had the children and to ask for a greater percent of the custody, which would also REDUCE your CS.

Talk to your lawyer, the threat of this alone may be enough to keep her at the status quo.

Good point Schtoop, thanks.

I have an appointment with my lawyer Tuesday. I'm not taking any action, just gathering information and his thoughts.

Perhaps you could put onto paper a cost analysis. Estimate how much she pays now to have the kids, taking into account what she gets from you versus her out of pocket expenses. Then estimate how much it would cost her if she didn't have the kids full-time and didn't have to pay child support to you.
Then on your side of the ledger, is it possible for you to support two kids without financial help for her? Would it cost you more than what you pay out in CS? I would think not.

Include the intangibles like more time for her to socialize and how much harder it will be for her to get remarried with two children living with her full time. Then ensure you stress that no one would think she is a bad mother if she does what she thinks is in the best interests of the kids. You certainly don't think that way.

if there is a financial advantage for her, and she is reassured that you are not out to screw her, there may be a possibility that it would work.

The rest of your agreement could stand, especially the provisions about potential deployments.

I wonder, does your custody arrangement have any language about what would happen in the event she gets a new job that requires her to move away?

SOL: I think it'd be great if she'd quit her job. BTW, document everything she says/does with regards to the kids...that she "forgets" about them, etc. It'll come in handy when you take her to court to get custody of them.

As for the sex while dating...I have a set of CDs by dating and relationship experts and they actually stated this (sex clouds one's thinking...best to abstain, etc.) Until you've made it past the first six month's "honeymoon" stage, don't. All morals aside, it's good to have self control no matter what beliefs you ascribe to.

Americajin- I think I may try that route first in a litle while. Showing her why it's a better idea. I think I need to wait a bit first.

Kay- It would actually be good if she does quit. I met with my lawyer today just to get some information on the 'rules' regarding changes to custody and child support. Barring threat of harm or danger to the children, the agreement is supposed to stay firm for at least two years before any changes, unless we both agree to it. He recommends that I simply continue to document and I will do that.

As far as changes to CS... if she voluntarily loses her income by quitting or gets fired for cause, there will be no increase to what I pay. My CS will still be offset by what her 28% was. If she were to be fired or layed off due to bad economy or something like that, my CS would no longer be offset and I would have to pay her the full amount, however she would also have to provide proof that she is looking for employment and it would all have to be done through the courts.
It is what I expected, but I wanted to be sure I knew the facts just in case.

Yes, the sex while dating thing is a little tricky. I do agree and realize that it can cloud one's thinking and in fact it has for me recently. That whole self-control thing is proving to be more difficult than I imagined. When there is something that you really want and it is offered to you, it is a hard thing to say no to. Failing that, I think I can keep it in perspective, as long as it is mutually sex just for the sake of it and not as a relationship building endeavor.

I don't know. That's a tough one. I mean I'm not out there just looking to have sex, although I must admit that I certainly wouldn't mind it either.

Hey. haven't seen you in a while, which is natural given that you're moving on with your life and this place can be a trigger, but just wondering how things are going for you?

Americajin, thanks for checking in on me! Can't beleive I've been away from here for so long. I do think my absence has more to do with simply being busy with life rather than fear of triggers, although there is some truth to that regarding the SAA boards. I will get back there too in time.

All in all, things are going fairly well. I just keep having this same thought go through my head... "so, is this it then? Is this what my life has become?" This is my life, and it's not what it was before.

Overall, life is much better today, however I have some moments of lonliness still. I don't miss my ex, but at times I do miss the 'connection' with another. I've gone out with a few other women and do have fun, but still haven't really connected with anyone yet. These recent negative thoughts probably rose up because I didn't spend Thanksgiving with my boys for the first time. Well, first time while I've actually been home and available to be with them anyway. They were with their mom this year. I seem to be having more and more frustration with her lately in general. Besides the usual aggrevation I have about paying this person CS when she barely does anything with them or shows any inclination to put their welfare above her own.

She has recently violated a relatively big issue in our custody agreement and I'm not sure what to do about it other than document. I made it a point to put in our agreement that neither one of us should have an overnight guest of the opposite sex while we had the boys with us for the first year. She made it about 8 months. She has been dating this guy from Chicago. Initially she told me he was just a dating interest and saw no LTR with him. Next thing I know she is introducing him to the boys. I didn't have a huge issue with that, as from what she told me he seems a decent enough guy with two kids of his own. Then around halloween she took the boys up to Six Flags with him and his kids together for the weekend. I had assumed that she and the boys were staying at a hotel. I found out after the fact that they all stayed at his place. Then a few weekends ago he stayed at her house for the weekend when she had the boys, without her telling me. I knew he was in town, and in fact I met him at my son's football game, but I was not aware he was staying with her until afterwards again. I was and still am pissed about that.

Apparently the boys were behaving absolutely horrible for her all Thanksgiving weekend. Arguing with each other and even physically fighting each other, which they have never really done before. They were not listening to her or respecting her at all either. She said it got so bad that she was crying about it, and then they started crying too. She also told me that my oldest hit his brother in the face, and then she slapped him in the face. Definitely out of control. We have never hit the kids before. I spanked my oldest once when he was like 5. They really are great, well behaved and polite boys and I often get comments from others on how polite and well behaved they are, so this really is very far from the norm.

She also told me how she called her parents last weekend before they all went there to visit with her family Christmas party asking her dad to talk to the boys. She then said before they got there the boys were acting much better. What I noticed was that her bf left that morning. I asked her if she thought they might be acting out because her bf and his kids were with them all weekend and the boys may have felt that they were intruding on 'their time' with her. She disagreed and said how much the boys enjoy playing with his kids.

I suspected and now know that I am right and the boys were acting out in a way to get attention from her that they weren't getting or feeling because every time it is their weekend with her, she is including her new bf and his kids. I KNOW the boys were already feeling slighted and somewhat neglected from her before we even got divorced. Do you remember when my oldest wrote on my night stand "Mom, do you love me?" This now goes beyond my anger about her not respecting me and our custody agreement that prohibits guests of the opposite sex from staying with us when we have the kids. Once again she seems to be placing her needs way above the boys' and will not see that she could be doing any wrong in any way.

I talked to the boys the Monday after. They are angry with her and hurt that every time they are there with her, her new boyfriend is also taking their time. They were particularly hurt that she included him and his children this Saturday when they all went out for her birthday. I'm not expecting her to change her ways or even admit she was wrong, but I still needed to do this to at least plant that seed. I don't think I had anything to lose in trying here.

I did talk to her about it myself after speaking with the boys and she did say she will 'consider' not having him around as much with the boys, however does not see that as having anything to do with their change in behavior. I know better. At least I tried to reason with her anyway, as futile as it was.

After school that day the boys actually talked to her themselves and told her why they were angry over the weekend. Of course, she ended up dismissing their reasoning, but I'm proud of them for being strong enough to tell her how they really felt. I told Pinky I have scheduled both of them for an appointment with their counselor this month so she is aware. Maybe if she hears it from the counselor later it may have more of an impact. No expectations though!

So I now spend most of my time focusing on work and trying to be a good dad to my boys. I still end up having them about 70% of the time which is because she still tends to give up her time with them for whatever reason. In my own time, I end up chasing interesting women on the online sites, while being chased by three women in real life that I enjoy spending time with, but I'm just not that into. I think two of them want to be in a committed relationship and the other one acts as if we already are, lol. Sometimes I think the dating is just not worth the stress and aggregation that comes with it. I say that, but I still have some optimism with someone new I've been messaging with on Match. I think we will get together next week. I also have another one that I plan on sending a message to this weekend that I'm hopeful about.

I guess I just think back before the divorce on how life was as a family, and I do miss what we had. Then I look at where I'm at now and I find myself to be quite lonely and somewhat empty inside. I want to just keep things light with dating, but the ones I'm with are making that difficult. At the same time, I do long for that deeper connection and hope to find the 'spark' with someone to have a LTR with. I'm still in no rush and figure it will come in time. Often times I just wonder, what the hell am I really doing?

OK, enough feeling sorry for myself. I'm really not, but it sure sounds that way. I am grateful for many things today. I have my health. I have my boys most of the time. I have family that loves me. I have a decent job with security. I have a nice house and 'things'. I have my faith. I have hope and opportunity to share my life with someone special in time. That's enough today.

Things really ARE better, and they continue to improve. I just need to remain patient and continue to focus on my own self improvement. I also need to pause once in a while and appreciate the good things I do have in my life today. I'm still getting the 'feel' of my new life. It fits, but I'm still breaking it in.

SOL sounds like you are doing well. Sorry to hear Pinky won't step up and be a MOTHER. Ugh. She makes me ill. Be thankful that you are there close by and can fill in the gaps as best you can.

My poor dh had his dss moved away from him far enough that he can't do much to influence their daily lives. Their mother is molding them and their view of their dad--it is very difficult to watch.

My own situation with my ds11 and his dad is not great. Like you though I am very proud of my son's ability to express his feelings and morals and values to his dad.

Have you discussed her violation of the agreement with your attorney? Are you documenting all including her decreased time with boys in hopes of lowering your cs payments?

Dh just got a new job where he will be making a lot more money. As soon as XW finds out she will be pounding down the door for more money. Oh, well part of it.

Hey Big Bro, glad to hear that things are going somewhat decent for you.

Sucks that Pinky is still very much in a wayward mindset. It boggles the mind when parents do this to their own children. As long as you hold fast to what is right, your boys will know how to behave as adults. Great job being the dad that they need.

On the loneliness thing, I get that. That's what I miss most too. Funny thing is, I see Pinky as also missing that, and that's why she keeps hopping from one to the next to try to fill that void. She doesn't realize that SHE destroyed that, and now you all have to pay the price. You and the boys will fare better than Pinky in the end though, since you are the ones who did things the right way.

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I just keep having this same thought go through my head... "so, is this it then? Is this what my life has become?" This is my life, and it's not what it was before.

Right now, you�re just in kind of a holding pattern. I�m sure that it has an almost unreal quality about it, almost like you�re thinking you�ll wake up soon and realize it was just a bad dream. Will be like that for a while yet to come.

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Once again she seems to be placing her needs way above the boys' and will not see that she could be doing any wrong in any way.

I think that the reason you get angry about this is that you want to think that she places the same weight of importance on the same things that you do and in the same priorities. You gotta stop doing that because you already know she�s selfish and her only priority is herself. There is something broken inside of Pinky and she will find herself bouncing from guy to guy until she realizes that it's not something wrong with the men it's something wrong with her. That epihany may never come.

Sometimes it will make you wonder that the only reason that she even takes the kids is to not only keep the child support coming but also to keep up appearances with her parents. It would be one thing to cheat, she probably has been able to do some damage control there by smearing you, and she is their daughter after all; but quite another thing to neglect her children in their eyes.

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while being chased by three women in real life that I enjoy spending time with, but I'm just not that into. I think two of them want to be in a committed relationship and the other one acts as if we already are, lol. Sometimes I think the dating is just not worth the stress and aggregation that comes with it.

You�re smart to recognize this as we talked about before, not being ready or even willing to be in a committed relationship yet. And you�ll find yourself not quite over the anger you had over what happened with your ex-wife. While you want female companionship, getting into a serious relationship right now would be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

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Then I look at where I'm at now and I find myself to be quite lonely and somewhat empty inside. I want to just keep things light with dating, but the ones I'm with are making that difficult. At the same time, I do long for that deeper connection and hope to find the 'spark' with someone to have a LTR with. I'm still in no rush and figure it will come in time. Often times I just wonder, what the hell am I really doing?

What you�re doing is feeling your way along, trying to establish a new life on your own terms. Key concept there, your own terms, you now make all of the rules in your life. One of the reasons I said you�re not ready yet for a committed relationship is that as you date some of these women and they start making noises about commitment, they often try to start telling you not only what to do with them but also how, when, where and why you should be doing it. You�ll find yourself getting angry when this happens, something on the order of �who does this woman think she is?� Then the whole betrayal thing and the selfishness comes rushing back at you, and you realize that you don't want to put yourself in another situation where a woman is trying to establish control over your life. You're a very attractive prospect, SOL, nice, stable guy with manners and who treats women well, devoted to his kids, has a good job, and is available NOW, you'll find women that when they start to date you will try to expedite the process of getting you married once again.

The emptiness will go when you get comfortable with the feeling of just being on your own. Nothing wrong with being on your own and answering to nobody but yourself. You�re able to pursue things or interests that you didn�t have the time or inclination to do before. Important to have something for yourself that doesn�t always involve your kids or a date with a woman. Take the time to just be by yourself for a while.

The way to explain to your ex-wife about bringing guys around your kids is that you don't want them to meet someone who isn't going to be there two months later. It's not fair to the boys and what idea do they get about their mother? You've done your best to not demonize her but she's doing a great job of that herself. If she could understand that she is really destroying her image as their mother in their eyes and that is the reason for the clause in the settlement, not you trying to put the kibosh on her social life. What does she think that your boys feel when she is staying over various men's houses and dragging them there? I would tell her that while you don't want to create discord you're going to stand firm about no overnights with boyfriends.

Another good thing to tell her is that she is violating a court order and leaving herself open to charges of contempt. And that if you hear of another overnight with the boyfriend in the presence of your kids that you will file. And then follow through.

Your ex-wife has no respect for you or your kids (or herself) and she will keep doing this until something forces her to change. She doesn't really want to go in front of a judge and try to explain this away.

I agree with what Kirby wrote.

Americajin- thanks. So much of what you said is right on the money. I am still sort of feeling like life is in a holding pattern. I'm genuinely pretty content really. I think I'm just getting used to living as a single parent and it's still a bit strange.

I do get angry because Pinky's actions or inactions have a negative effect on the boys and she doesn't even seem to see it. I also realize that this isn't healthy for me. I understand I cannot influence her. Just frustrated for my boys. I don't think she is smearing me, nor do I care. I still talk to her parents occasionally and we are on good terms. They are still disappointed with her.

You are also very correct about why I bristle when a dating partner tries to act as if we are already in a committed relationship. I make it very clear from the beginning that I am just looking for someone to enjoy some activities together from time to time (and not necessarily sexual). Just somebody to get together with and talk over a meal and hang out. They all nod their head that they understand yet they proceed to act as if we are a 'couple' by calling or texting every day, even when I tell them I would prefer to talk once or twice a week. Maybe it's like you suggest and I'm getting the feeling of being controlled when that is absolutely not what I want.

I have talked to Pinky about the time with the boys. She is taking them back up to Chicago again this weekend but is telling me that she is not including her boyfriend this weekend. I still have my suspicions but she knows where I stand on the subject.

Kirby and Kay- I will bring up the issue of contempt of the court order if she continues to have him stay with her and the boys. Thanks.

Limb!~ what's up my good friend?
Once again - Thanks for your devoted service to keeping our country safe. We appreciate it.
Thanks for the update, I was wondering about you as well. [thanks aj for the prompt]

I got a little flash to the wayward world when Pink suggested BF would not be in Chicago. It's a classic wayward end-around to not "plan" to be in the same place at the same time....but gosh, guess what !? things changed and it just serendipitously without any knowledge of anyone that it so happened that his other plans fell through and nobody could have predicted it but jeez there he was and he wound up staying with us......blah blah blah.
To a wayward it's not lying if you can convince everyone that it wasn't planned.

So expect it.
The sadness is that she's probably not careful at all about exposing her kids to this tactic of deceitfulness. So she's teaching her kids how to lie.

Here's the good news I see in your situation. You.
I remember from classes I took in childhood development that kids really only need to have one individual in there lives to inspire them and guide them. Kids from impoverished broken homes can thrive if they have a coach, teacher, librarian, choir director, grandmother, etc. who truly gives them the safety and care they need. That you are spending up to 70% of time with them (I think I predicted something like this) is very hopeful for them. That you are the picture of honesty and integrity is crucially important.

Your influence shows in events like the one you described above where they were able to illustrate their feelings to her in a mature and assertive way.

~opt

How are things _SOL?