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Just thought I'd mention...
Sex clouds one's thinking, it can draw you into the relationship faster than it ought to develop and can keep you from seeing/thinking clearly. It complicates things. If you want to proceed at a safer pace and see clearly, abstain. It's best to wait for the relationship that is more worthy of commitment.


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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Originally Posted by kaycstamper
Just thought I'd mention...
Sex clouds one's thinking, it can draw you into the relationship faster than it ought to develop and can keep you from seeing/thinking clearly. It complicates things. If you want to proceed at a safer pace and see clearly, abstain. It's best to wait for the relationship that is more worthy of commitment.

That's really good advice.

:taking notes:


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
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Americajin- I understand what you mean there. I don't think I was in any danger of that with this girl. Like I've said, I have known her for some time and even before I really got to know her, I knew she was of good character and is a decent person. She is a fellow warrant after all. I do have my own condoms.

Kay- I can understand what you are saying and actually agree in a rational way. Much easier said than done however. With my recent dating partner here, I started off slowly and told her a few times that I am a very patient man. I didn't push for us to be intimate at all. She was definitely the initiator, and I was very attracted to her. Not sure if I know how to say 'not yet' as a man, ya know? It probably was too soon, but it felt right at the time and sure seemed like we were heading towards a longer relationship. That whole 'fast forwarding' thing.

I went to that DivorceCare thing a while back and still receive daily emails from the program. Recently there were quite a few about abstaining. Certainly strengthens the argument to wait. Talks about how sex builds a special God-given bond and the dangers of the emotional bond that then develops too.


-SOL
_SOL #2549162 10/02/11 04:43 PM
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Ok, I think I just need to vent a little here. My ex called today asking if I could take the boys today instead of tomorrow per our schedule. Not really a big deal as I don't ever mind taking them. It's just dealing with 'her' that is bugging me. It's the same stuff she was pulling when she first moved out. She claims she 'forgot' it was her weekend with the boys. How how do you do that?

We switch every Monday. She had them all week and then sent them off with her parents for the weekend. She was supposed to meet her parents or receive them back sometime today, keep them through tomorrow and then I get the boys after school for my week.

Turns out she dropped the boys off with her parents on Friday and ran off to Chicago for the weekend with some guy. Now I really don't care who she is dating or where for that matter. But she calls me today saying she is in Chicago and can't meet her family on time because she 'forgot' and wants me to pick them up tonight and just keep through my week. Forgot. Give me a freakin' break.

Then she goes on to tell me that she either is thinking of quitting her work or is preparing to be fired from her job on Tuesday. I could use some expert guidance here on the financial aspect of that regarding my child support to her. As it is now, I pay her 28% of my monthly net pay minus 28% of her net pay. Now if she stops getting paid for whatever reason, how soon does my child support go up? Does the fact that she chooses to quit have any impact?

Not a good day. At least my Bears won. Ok, I feel a little better now.


-SOL
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Originally Posted by americajin
Look, I know you're not going to ever agree with me. What may be interesting is to show your husband this thread and get his opinion of what both you and I have written. I'll bet a pretty interesting conversation ensues.

Dh and I discussed my post and your post at length. He feels about it just the way about it that I thought he would. I believe his exact words were 'identify the need, fill the need.'

He and I came out of long term marriages and we had a real sense of what we wanted and didn't want in the next mate.

Here is how our process went...granted too fast for most of you, but that is another thread.

Introduced by long time mutual friends at a small cookout at friend's home. Initial attraction. Check one.

Discussed our (common) religion, our recent activity, our long term committment to the faith and religion and to serving our God. Check two

Discussed how important our children are to us. Check three.

Discussed income situation, my very strong desire to continue homeschooling my son and how we both felt about the effect two parents working has on family life. Check four.

Discussed expectations for how we treat each other and others, how the home is kept, how I feel about his slightly OCD tendencies. Check four.

As we felt we were moving into very serious territory, we further discussed our children...how to deal with Xs, how to discipline our children, how to discipline each other's children...Check five.

More convinced we were serious about each other we discussed sex. A lot. And since we were both mid 40 and had both previously been married for over 20 years each, we had a lot of life experience in SF. Note we did not engage in sex of any kind prior to the wedding...and we have an amazing sex life. Check six.

That is how it progressed for us. We each told each other our needs and we each said 'yes, I can meet that need.'

This took an INCREDIBLE amount of personal honesty. I was very scared to tell him that I don't want to stop homeschooling which means I can't really work. But that is VERY important to me and I didn't want to have the regret of down playing my feelings on that.

Similar honesty was required by both of us on the topic of SF. Our honesty to each other has proved to be a real blessing in that area as well.


I see my relationship with dh as very much in line with MB. We relayed our needs, we work hard to meet those needs and it keeps us VERY much in love with each other.

I hope SOL can find such a love someday.

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quick t/j

Smilingwoman, just curious, is his ex a WS too?

I love your story!


Me: BS age 35
POS-eX-the SORRIEST, CRUELEST, LOWLY WAYWARD SCUMBAG out there
Married 14.5 years, together almost 16
DDay: 7-5-09
OC born: 7-23-09
no COM: tried 6 years frown
D filed 5/05/2011
D final 11/10/11
I was gaslighted for 2 years.

"You were not built for a safe story. Take risks and feel what it is like to actually be brave. It's worth it." Carlos Whittaker
Migs #2549177 10/02/11 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs
quick t/j

Smilingwoman, just curious, is his ex a WS too?

I love your story!

Yes. She is a WW. He never was.

Thanks for liking my story. smile

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Per my other response on the "how do you know when you're ready to date" thread, I AM NOT READY, but I think it would be ideal to heal with someone that has dealt with a wayturd too. You both have a unique perspective, can relate to the unbelievable pain, and I think, would work extra hard to affair proof your M.

SOL, thanks for letting me t/j. grin


Me: BS age 35
POS-eX-the SORRIEST, CRUELEST, LOWLY WAYWARD SCUMBAG out there
Married 14.5 years, together almost 16
DDay: 7-5-09
OC born: 7-23-09
no COM: tried 6 years frown
D filed 5/05/2011
D final 11/10/11
I was gaslighted for 2 years.

"You were not built for a safe story. Take risks and feel what it is like to actually be brave. It's worth it." Carlos Whittaker
Migs #2549179 10/02/11 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Migs
Per my other response on the "how do you know when you're ready to date" thread, I AM NOT READY, but I think it would be ideal to heal with someone that has dealt with a wayturd too. You both have a unique perspective, can relate to the unbelievable pain, and I think, would work extra hard to affair proof your M.

SOL, thanks for letting me t/j. grin

Going over to the other thread you mentioned now.

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Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
I hope SOL can find such a love someday.

Thanks for sharing your story SW, and thanks for your hopes. I really hope so too.

Oh and Migs....feel free to t/j anytime you like!


-SOL
_SOL #2549239 10/03/11 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by _SOL
I could use some expert guidance here on the financial aspect of that regarding my child support to her. As it is now, I pay her 28% of my monthly net pay minus 28% of her net pay. Now if she stops getting paid for whatever reason, how soon does my child support go up? Does the fact that she chooses to quit have any impact?

Not a good day. At least my Bears won. Ok, I feel a little better now.

I have bad news. If she were the father, the fact that she chose to quit her job would mean that the judge would yell at her and tell her that her responsibility didn't change. But since she's the mother, the judge may cut her some slack.

Your only recourse is to get a higher percentage of custody. I hope you've been documenting all the times that she has asked you to take the kids on her time. It might be possible to go back to court and get the custody agreement changed.


Me: BS 51
Himself: WH 53, EA/PA w/ RunnerSlut his "running buddy."
Buncha' kids. The two youngest are still minors.
Separated: 08/13/09 after 25 years of marriage
Plan D: Filed 11/13/09 Final 3/30/11
MC told me that he probably has a personality disorder
Kirby #2549298 10/03/11 11:04 AM
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Quote
But since she's the mother, the judge may cut her some slack.


Why?

Quote
It might be possible to go back to court and get the custody agreement changed.


I'll agree with this. SOL, I would ask your lawyer if there has been enough time to establish a pattern of irresponsibility in the way she cares for the kids, i.e. going off to Chicago with men she barely knows while dumping them on her parents? Perhaps if she realizes that it would be advantageous to her both socially and financially to give you custody of the kids with her having liberal visitation? It would take a little bit to convince her she is not being a bad mother by doing this but is actually showing she cares deeply for her kids by letting them live with you fulltime as you seem better able to handle it.


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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I may try that route with her, but quite frankly I don't see her agreeing to anything that would reduce my CS to her, as giving me the boys would. It's almost exactly what I tried to get her to agree to before the divorce. I even would have paid her some money each month just to get her to agree to it. She wouldn't have it then. I suspect more out of how that would make her 'look' to others.


-SOL
_SOL #2549944 10/05/11 08:12 AM
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Well then, there's your protection.

If she chooses to go before a judge to get more CS from you, then that's your time to show how much you've had the children and to ask for a greater percent of the custody, which would also REDUCE your CS.

Talk to your lawyer, the threat of this alone may be enough to keep her at the status quo.

schtoop #2550022 10/05/11 11:49 AM
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Good point Schtoop, thanks.

I have an appointment with my lawyer Tuesday. I'm not taking any action, just gathering information and his thoughts.


-SOL
_SOL #2550232 10/06/11 11:09 AM
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Perhaps you could put onto paper a cost analysis. Estimate how much she pays now to have the kids, taking into account what she gets from you versus her out of pocket expenses. Then estimate how much it would cost her if she didn't have the kids full-time and didn't have to pay child support to you.
Then on your side of the ledger, is it possible for you to support two kids without financial help for her? Would it cost you more than what you pay out in CS? I would think not.

Include the intangibles like more time for her to socialize and how much harder it will be for her to get remarried with two children living with her full time. Then ensure you stress that no one would think she is a bad mother if she does what she thinks is in the best interests of the kids. You certainly don't think that way.

if there is a financial advantage for her, and she is reassured that you are not out to screw her, there may be a possibility that it would work.

The rest of your agreement could stand, especially the provisions about potential deployments.

I wonder, does your custody arrangement have any language about what would happen in the event she gets a new job that requires her to move away?


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
_SOL #2551126 10/09/11 09:45 PM
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SOL: I think it'd be great if she'd quit her job. BTW, document everything she says/does with regards to the kids...that she "forgets" about them, etc. It'll come in handy when you take her to court to get custody of them.

As for the sex while dating...I have a set of CDs by dating and relationship experts and they actually stated this (sex clouds one's thinking...best to abstain, etc.) Until you've made it past the first six month's "honeymoon" stage, don't. All morals aside, it's good to have self control no matter what beliefs you ascribe to.


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Americajin- I think I may try that route first in a litle while. Showing her why it's a better idea. I think I need to wait a bit first.

Kay- It would actually be good if she does quit. I met with my lawyer today just to get some information on the 'rules' regarding changes to custody and child support. Barring threat of harm or danger to the children, the agreement is supposed to stay firm for at least two years before any changes, unless we both agree to it. He recommends that I simply continue to document and I will do that.

As far as changes to CS... if she voluntarily loses her income by quitting or gets fired for cause, there will be no increase to what I pay. My CS will still be offset by what her 28% was. If she were to be fired or layed off due to bad economy or something like that, my CS would no longer be offset and I would have to pay her the full amount, however she would also have to provide proof that she is looking for employment and it would all have to be done through the courts.
It is what I expected, but I wanted to be sure I knew the facts just in case.

Yes, the sex while dating thing is a little tricky. I do agree and realize that it can cloud one's thinking and in fact it has for me recently. That whole self-control thing is proving to be more difficult than I imagined. When there is something that you really want and it is offered to you, it is a hard thing to say no to. Failing that, I think I can keep it in perspective, as long as it is mutually sex just for the sake of it and not as a relationship building endeavor.

I don't know. That's a tough one. I mean I'm not out there just looking to have sex, although I must admit that I certainly wouldn't mind it either.


-SOL
_SOL #2571045 12/02/11 08:26 PM
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Hey. haven't seen you in a while, which is natural given that you're moving on with your life and this place can be a trigger, but just wondering how things are going for you?


The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and it could be again.
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Americajin, thanks for checking in on me! Can't beleive I've been away from here for so long. I do think my absence has more to do with simply being busy with life rather than fear of triggers, although there is some truth to that regarding the SAA boards. I will get back there too in time.

All in all, things are going fairly well. I just keep having this same thought go through my head... "so, is this it then? Is this what my life has become?" This is my life, and it's not what it was before.

Overall, life is much better today, however I have some moments of lonliness still. I don't miss my ex, but at times I do miss the 'connection' with another. I've gone out with a few other women and do have fun, but still haven't really connected with anyone yet. These recent negative thoughts probably rose up because I didn't spend Thanksgiving with my boys for the first time. Well, first time while I've actually been home and available to be with them anyway. They were with their mom this year. I seem to be having more and more frustration with her lately in general. Besides the usual aggrevation I have about paying this person CS when she barely does anything with them or shows any inclination to put their welfare above her own.

She has recently violated a relatively big issue in our custody agreement and I'm not sure what to do about it other than document. I made it a point to put in our agreement that neither one of us should have an overnight guest of the opposite sex while we had the boys with us for the first year. She made it about 8 months. She has been dating this guy from Chicago. Initially she told me he was just a dating interest and saw no LTR with him. Next thing I know she is introducing him to the boys. I didn't have a huge issue with that, as from what she told me he seems a decent enough guy with two kids of his own. Then around halloween she took the boys up to Six Flags with him and his kids together for the weekend. I had assumed that she and the boys were staying at a hotel. I found out after the fact that they all stayed at his place. Then a few weekends ago he stayed at her house for the weekend when she had the boys, without her telling me. I knew he was in town, and in fact I met him at my son's football game, but I was not aware he was staying with her until afterwards again. I was and still am pissed about that.

Apparently the boys were behaving absolutely horrible for her all Thanksgiving weekend. Arguing with each other and even physically fighting each other, which they have never really done before. They were not listening to her or respecting her at all either. She said it got so bad that she was crying about it, and then they started crying too. She also told me that my oldest hit his brother in the face, and then she slapped him in the face. Definitely out of control. We have never hit the kids before. I spanked my oldest once when he was like 5. They really are great, well behaved and polite boys and I often get comments from others on how polite and well behaved they are, so this really is very far from the norm.

She also told me how she called her parents last weekend before they all went there to visit with her family Christmas party asking her dad to talk to the boys. She then said before they got there the boys were acting much better. What I noticed was that her bf left that morning. I asked her if she thought they might be acting out because her bf and his kids were with them all weekend and the boys may have felt that they were intruding on 'their time' with her. She disagreed and said how much the boys enjoy playing with his kids.

I suspected and now know that I am right and the boys were acting out in a way to get attention from her that they weren't getting or feeling because every time it is their weekend with her, she is including her new bf and his kids. I KNOW the boys were already feeling slighted and somewhat neglected from her before we even got divorced. Do you remember when my oldest wrote on my night stand "Mom, do you love me?" This now goes beyond my anger about her not respecting me and our custody agreement that prohibits guests of the opposite sex from staying with us when we have the kids. Once again she seems to be placing her needs way above the boys' and will not see that she could be doing any wrong in any way.

I talked to the boys the Monday after. They are angry with her and hurt that every time they are there with her, her new boyfriend is also taking their time. They were particularly hurt that she included him and his children this Saturday when they all went out for her birthday. I'm not expecting her to change her ways or even admit she was wrong, but I still needed to do this to at least plant that seed. I don't think I had anything to lose in trying here.

I did talk to her about it myself after speaking with the boys and she did say she will 'consider' not having him around as much with the boys, however does not see that as having anything to do with their change in behavior. I know better. At least I tried to reason with her anyway, as futile as it was.

After school that day the boys actually talked to her themselves and told her why they were angry over the weekend. Of course, she ended up dismissing their reasoning, but I'm proud of them for being strong enough to tell her how they really felt. I told Pinky I have scheduled both of them for an appointment with their counselor this month so she is aware. Maybe if she hears it from the counselor later it may have more of an impact. No expectations though!

So I now spend most of my time focusing on work and trying to be a good dad to my boys. I still end up having them about 70% of the time which is because she still tends to give up her time with them for whatever reason. In my own time, I end up chasing interesting women on the online sites, while being chased by three women in real life that I enjoy spending time with, but I'm just not that into. I think two of them want to be in a committed relationship and the other one acts as if we already are, lol. Sometimes I think the dating is just not worth the stress and aggregation that comes with it. I say that, but I still have some optimism with someone new I've been messaging with on Match. I think we will get together next week. I also have another one that I plan on sending a message to this weekend that I'm hopeful about.

I guess I just think back before the divorce on how life was as a family, and I do miss what we had. Then I look at where I'm at now and I find myself to be quite lonely and somewhat empty inside. I want to just keep things light with dating, but the ones I'm with are making that difficult. At the same time, I do long for that deeper connection and hope to find the 'spark' with someone to have a LTR with. I'm still in no rush and figure it will come in time. Often times I just wonder, what the hell am I really doing?

OK, enough feeling sorry for myself. I'm really not, but it sure sounds that way. I am grateful for many things today. I have my health. I have my boys most of the time. I have family that loves me. I have a decent job with security. I have a nice house and 'things'. I have my faith. I have hope and opportunity to share my life with someone special in time. That's enough today.

Things really ARE better, and they continue to improve. I just need to remain patient and continue to focus on my own self improvement. I also need to pause once in a while and appreciate the good things I do have in my life today. I'm still getting the 'feel' of my new life. It fits, but I'm still breaking it in.



-SOL
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