So, here goes...
I have never posted here or on any other board in my life.
We have been married for 5 years. We made a choice to have kids right out of the gate so our oldest is also 5 years old. We also decided that my wife would leave her job in a well paying technical field to be a stay at home mom to raise the child. All good right? Second kid comes along 2 years later and things are still chugging along fine. A single income with 2 kids isn't the easiest but we are making it work. In April, my wife tells me that she is not happy with things. She thinks she needs to go back to work. Ok, this wasn't part of the plan since the kids weren't even in school yet but I kind of see where she is coming from. The daily conversations with a the 2 and 4 year old aren't exactly the most fulfilling. I ask her what the way forward is and she says that we just sit tight until September and she will look for work once the oldest child is in kindergarten and the younger one can get into preschool.

A month later, I really start to notice that something is just not "right" so I ask what is the story and she says that our marriage is dead and she needs some space. She is so tired of being needed all of the time and having to do everything for everyone. I asked her what her ideal life would be like and she said that she saw herself living by herself somewhere else. The plan now was to find a job and move into her own place as soon as that happened. Until then, there was nothing to so but wait. Tell me you don't see where this is headed.

About a week later while I was away for work, she moves into the spare bedroom.

This whole time I am thinking that this unfulfilling lifestyle that she is in is the cause of her unhappiness. Once we get the kids in school and out of her hair and she finds work where she can have a conversation with someone who is able to compoets a sentence things will have to feel different. I am recognizing that things aren't going great between us and maybe a weekend away from the family might do her some good. A funeral for a family member that I have never met comes up so I encourage her to attend by herself which she does. Then a wedding for a childhood friend comes up. Again, someone I have never met. I had a work commitment right around the same time so I encourage her to attend alone which she does. Again, tell me you don't see where this is leading.

I spend the summer doing all of the wrong things by asking her a million questions, I am super emotional, I am begging her to let me know what I can do to try to fix things. It is all driving her mad but I tell her that I need to deal with this situation by talking. I finally schedule a MC session in July. I was brought up to see therapy as a big weakness so this was difficult for me to do. Needless to say, the MC does not go as I had envisioned. We are meeting weekly and things seem to get worse if that is even possible.

In August we are on vacation and in bed (with a wall of pillows separating us) when the cell phone beeps. It is an incoming text. Hmm, that's kind of odd. I think I had sent one text message in my life up to that point and as far as I could tell the wife was about at the same level. I jump up and read it. It doesn't make any sense to me so I ask the wife who is now breathing down my neck. She says it was probably just an ad from the phone co. Hmm, kind of an odd thing for the phone company to say in a text. Wife goes to use the bathroom an I check the history and that is when the mushroom cloud goes off. You are never going to guess it. Ok, I'll give you a hint. WS was not at the wedding by herself. I know. You never saw that coming.

WS gets out of the bathroom and I ask her if there was anything she wanted to tell me about the wedding. Nope.

After a few more questions it was more obvious that her cover was blown. I confirmed that it was a PA. WS says it was one visit and a few emails and a phone call once a month. I honestly don't think I was all that surprised and in a way it explained why the MC wasn't really going anywhere. What really bugged me was that she was continuing to lie to me even after I knew about the affair.

I was pretty emotional at that time and I probably wasn't thinking too rationally. We had a pretty heated discussion that afternoon where I gave her th "bad dog" speech and told her that she should be ashamed of what she did to me and to our marriage. She responded by taking her ring off and walking off. I talked her down out of the tree and got her to put the ring back on. Small victory. The lies continued and I made a decision that you all may not agree with. I hacked into her laptop and found a secret email account. I hacked into that account and discovered that this A had been going on since February and I would estimate between 5000 and 10000 emails were sent back and forth. Phone calls were almost daily and oh yeah, they met up at the funeral also! Nothing like a wake to get you in the mood.

WS finds out about me hacking into the computer and goes ballistic. Says that this is the last nail in the coffin.

I have to say that right up to D-day I always thought that would really be it for me. I could never accept or forgive an A. That feeling lasted for about 48 hours and I realized that I still loved my wife, I just needed to find her again and swap her with this "alien" that had replaced her.

MC continues for about 4 more weeks until the therapist gets WS to tell me that it is over and I need to move on. So, basically 2.5 months of MC and no effort was made other than to try to get me to come to terms with things. So frustrating. The last joint MC session, WS tells me it is too late to do anything.

The next day I find out about MB and I start to stumble my way through plan A. Things start to pick up some. We are talking about stuff, not us which has been the only topic for months. For the past month or so, I have been pushing myself to really try to be the person I think I am and I am making some big strides. WS is noticing but I really don't know if it is going to lead anywhere. The A continues but with some boundaries. I need some help on this one. WS is still not working yet. We are still in an in- house separation. WS is still communicating w/ OM. I realize that I can not stop WW from emailing/phoning OM but I can insist there be no face to face contact which was no real huge victory since this OM lives a 3 hr flight away. I have 2 small kids that still need their mom and if WS were to be asked to move out, the kids' lives would be turned upside-down. Am I just enabling this A to happen?

I have exposed to all of the close relatives and they all support me including WS parents.

What do I do now? WS is going to begin working at some point and I am sure will be moving out shortly after. WS has said she does not want a D. I think she wants to do the have her cake and eat it too thing. She envisions a situation where we all get along and act like a family when it is covenient for her and then she cam retire to her own place when she feels like it. I feel like if she does move out that is one big step away from recociling. I realize that I can't get anywhere while this A is going on. What am I doing wrong?

Sorry for the length. I guess I had a bit to say. Also, appologies in advance for any spelling errors. This auto-correct thing stinks.

Thank you for reading.

Welcome to MB,

Snooping = GOOD ....nobody is going to get on your for that here. She has a right to privacy but not to secrecy. This is war.


Until the affair is dead....there is no progress.

Have you exposed on OM's side of the fence?

What do you know about OM? It's often easier to get the OM to dump a ww than getting a ww to dump an OM. OM can move on to other fish in the sea once you step up and make dating your wife more trouble than it's worth.

Oh...and don't worry about feeling bad that OM ended and not WW because it doesn't matter how it ends as long as it ends. Again...there is no progress until the affair is busted up.

We can help you.

Mr. W

p.s. - on the backside you've got to protect your legal rights with regards to custody should you end up divorced at the end of this. You say she wants to stay married (which is odd but not unheard as many WW can't think past their next OM fix) but has she discussed separating and custody during that?

SS,

You have the right and I must say the obligation to your marriage to insist on NC with OM starting now. If she moves out, ok. Keep the kids with you. Her fantasy lives bc she can still talk and see OM on FB. NC is the next step after exposure.

Don't ask....demand it. If she refuses....Plan B may be in your future.

Stay strong, the next few months are going to be tough.

Keep posting.

Mr. W,
OM has been in the "process of divorce" for 3 years. I am told that they have now filed and waiting for a court date. OMW knows about A and actually called WW about 6 weeks ago. WW gave just answered the questions. Nothing more. OM is an old highschool BF, has a 10 year old kid, works nights, smokes, is in school now to get a degree he never had the chance for before??, cheats on his wife with married women, other than that I don't know too much about this OM. WW sYs she loves him and doesn't love me anymore. I feel like with the recent plan A action I have been taking, I am now just up to "good friend" status with WW .

I have talked with a lawyer and was told that joint visitation is most likely what would finally happen. WW has said repeatedly that she has no intention of moving out of the local area and she recognizes the value of both parents being involved in kids lives. Logistics would keep the kids here at the house with me during the week if WW were to move out so I guess I have that in my back pocket.

Thanks for the response.

I talked with WW about if she was able to NC with OM and she said that she would move out if I demanded that. The way I looked at it and I still don't know if I went down the right path or not was that the kids are benefiting from having their mom at home, their lives are still intact at least for the moment, I can plan A much better while she is in the house. I felt that the compromise we made where there would be no physical contact would be of value. WW and OM had 2 weekends planned that I squashed when I found out about the A. I feel like giving her the boot right now while WW is still not employed would really impact my plan A. Yes, I do think plan B may be coming. I really wanted to push the plan A for a while to show her changes and what I was capable of. I am realizing my role in how we have gotten to where we are and I am working on fixing some of my issues (seasonal depression/anger issues), living more for today and not just for tomorrow, being more proactive about things in life, doing more of my share of things at the house, resolving conflict with me and my mom an me and my sister... I have been working. I am still very motivated to make this work somehow. This is the most important thing along with the well being of the kids.

Sorry your here SS. Your not alone. Amazing how stories are so similar. Praying for your kids, you, and your WW.

God bless you and stay positive. Let your actions control your feelings, not your feelings controlling your actions. Stay the better person, it is hard(I can't do it very good).

Funny how you said you patched things up with your Mom, I did/am doing the same thing. God has helped me more than anything.

Funny thing, my wife got with her HS BF......just he is still in HS. LOL Keep your head up, your doing great!

I am puzzled by WW consistently saying that she isn't sure that marriage is right for her. She has said that she feels like she needs to be on her own and doesn't like the need to have to compromise that comes with being married. WW has said told me that she has no intention of marrying OM or anyone else for that matter so I think thT is part of why she says that she doesn't want a D. I have asked her to seek professional guidance on this topic if not for us then for her. WW says that she can't do any type of solo therapy while she is still living here (too many inputs to process things properly). WW was married once before right out of college. That one lasted about 3 years I think. My hope is that my issues and being disengaged from the marriage were major contributors to how we got here. I say that because I can affect those things. I am changing. If the real problem is her not being able to cope with being married is the issue, I don't know what I can really do about us in that case.

I think about all of the long term dreams I have for the two of us and for the family and it really breaks my heart. I feel like I really sacrificed things to get through this tough part of the marriage (kids being born, living on one income, kids still too young to do some of the adventures we both enjoy). Right when we get over this hump, things fall apart. So sad.

Thanking for your thoughts. I know what you mean. I read some posts or things in dr. H books and think that our house has been bugged.

My parents divorced about 18 years ago and I never really resolved things with my mom. This thing I have going on now has given me the kick to tackle that issue and others. We have cleared things up and now talk about 5 days per week. Focus on what is working right?

I hear you loud and clear! My WW said the same thing, "I don't want to be married". She loves me and the kids, but doesn't want to keep the family? I just want to shake her and wake her up!

From what I've read on here, it will take some time. They talk about the WS in a fog, sound familiar?

You might want to look into getting some books, His Needs/Her Needs, Love Busters, Surviving an Affair, and there is a couple more. It is some good info. **edit**

**edit** She will read harry potter in one sitting, but to help herself/us, just too hard. Maybe her broom is rubbing her the wrong way. ;-) Just a joke.

Exactly, surround yourself with people who want to help and are loving and want to save the family.

**edit**

Your WW has a few little problems in her foggy little world: she has no single source of income if she moves out. And she'd be moving out without her children. Make sure she understands that.

I certainly hope you're not sitting by, watching her texting or talking to this guy. I would make it impossible for them to do so while. Tell her that she will not abuse you by doing so. Follow her around when she is on the phone with him and let her know loud and clear that she is not to talk to her fellow adulterer in front of you. She is not to do it in front of the children, either.

I would be very inclined to drop that phone in the toilet if I were you. You're paying for it, right? So it's yours to do with what you wish, correct?

So he's divorcing, is he? Have you confirmed this directly with his wife?

I would get to the bank asap - if you can do it online, so much the better. Move your money so she can't access it. Waywards have been known to clean out bank accounts to finance their affair.

Get the credit cards from her. You want to choke off all avenues she can use to get money.

Let her know that there will be no happy divorce for the two of you. You will file against her and cite adultery. Her co-adulterer will be called in to court and be forced to give testimony concerning his nasty actions in destroying your marriage. You will go for full custody of the kids and limited visitation for her. You will make it a stipulation that they are not to be exposed to her boyfriend. Boyfriends have been known to abuse their girlfriend's children. That's not going to happen to your kids.

You will help her financially in NO WAY to support her swingin' single lifestyle so she can crawl in the gutter with a man who is not her husband.

Do NOT tell her about this site. Do NOT try to educate her at this point. You can't educate a wayward. Do NOT tell her you're snooping.

Now that I've said all that: continue to be your pleasant self around her for anything that does not concern the affair. Read up on Plan A (I think you mentioned that you had done so already) and work that plan.

You can NOT believe anything that a WS tells you. Her "Promise" to not let this go PA anymore, seriously? Did she not take VOWS on your wedding day to do just that? It was just something to allow her to continue contact with OM.

Speaking of contacting OM, how does your WW do that? If it is a cell phone, and you pay the bill, disconnect it. Could she go out and buy a new one, sure, but you would have shown that you are not going to allow that to happen in your home. If she contact him over the internet, then you get rid of that too.

Have you read the Carrot and Stick of Plan A? You need to do ALL of it.

Also, you need to find out OM's info. Get it exposed on BOTH sides. Tell anyone and everyone who would have influence over them both.

WW is in thick fog. Things she is doing and saying are totally self centered. She says things like she could never abandon the kids but wants to move out with the knowledge that she will have pretty limited face time with them.

I have burned through HNHN and SAA and am cranking through LB right now. I am wondering about whether there is a right time to introduce those books to the WW. Plan A is supposed to be somewhat of a covert op so to speak if I understand things right. The guidance for a plan A is for it to have a tome limit. If the WW reads about that wouldn't she just perceive the PlanA as contrived? Not sure.

You are in a war for your marriage, sir. You do not expose your battle plans to the enemy. Say nothing to her about the books or this site.

Your wife is currently wayward. You cannot educate someone who is wayward. Don't even attempt it - it will backfire. Her ability to reason is completely compromised right now.

Please read this if you haven't yet:
Plan A Carrot and Stick

Thanks for clearing that part up. I am guessing there will be a time (hopefully) that WW will want to try to work on us but it looks like that is way down the road.

We use a pay as you go cell phone. Right now I am using that to snoop any texts that do come through. Not many of those. Most of the communication is through email and OM will call in to the house. I didn't think getting rid of all communication to/from the house with small children here was in their best interest. What if there is a need to dial 911?

I have been through the carrot and stick thread. Very helpful.

Any communication with OM is done discretely when I am not around.

You can't call 911 on your cell phone? It will jump to the nearest available tower, but the dispatcher can route it to a local emergency service.

You can also program the phone numbers for local emergency services into your phones.

I'd get rid of the land line. You can always get it reinstalled after the affair is busted up if you're still worried about 911 service.

ShortSleves, Listen to these wonderful people on here. They are a wealth of information and guidence and support.

I too am going through a very similar situation. Very fustrating I know. That darn fog makes you want to scream at times.

Hang in there, follow the advice on here. I will say a prayer for you and your children today.

Take care.

Hi Mr SS, welcome to Marriage Builders. This is where I would start. I would call the OM's wife TODAY and tell her all about the affair. That should be done without forewarning your wife. It sounds like your wife and the OM have been gaslighting her.

This is called fogbabble. She's saying all of this to justify her affair.

I suspect she didn't talk this way before OM came into the picture. She doesn't want a D because she wants to have it all: the security of family, your money, and the OM. This is called cake-eating.

There's no reason for either of you to waste money on therapy when you already know what the problem is: her affair. Therapy will actually be counter-productive. Therapists will typically tell a wayward to 'find themselves' or 'follow their dream' and other garbage like that.

It's always good to take a personal inventory and work on bettering yourself. But remember that you didn't MAKE WW have an affair. She decided that on her own.

SS, I would also demand that she end contact with the OM NOW. Demand it. Her threat to move out is an idle threat to scare you from making such a demand. And if she did move out, which they never do, you would be in a much better position legally. If she threatens to leave, let her leave, but don't allow her to take the kids. But it will take a DEMAND to get her to do it.

I would paint a very ugly picture of how divorce will look for her. This will give her second thoughts because she is under the impression now that you will roll over without complaint. This feeds her fantasy of replacing you with the OM with ease. I assure you this is her plan. Tell her if this goes to divorce you will be filing for primary custody on grounds of adultery and taking full possession of the house. Even in no-fault states they do take adultery into consideration because it speaks to their fitness. Tell her oyu will be having the OM subpoenaed to testify about the affair along with his wife.

But I would get ahold of his wife ASAP and have a discussion with her. "Getting divorced" = MARRIED. He is a married man.

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94