We are still in an in- house separation.

SS, I would also demand that she end contact with the OM NOW. Demand it. Her threat to move out is an idle threat to scare you from making such a demand. And if she did move out, which they never do, you would be in a much better position legally. If she threatens to leave, let her leave, but don't allow her to take the kids. But it will take a DEMAND to get her to do it.

I would paint a very ugly picture of how divorce will look for her. This will give her second thoughts because she is under the impression now that you will roll over without complaint. This feeds her fantasy of replacing you with the OM with ease. I assure you this is her plan. Tell her if this goes to divorce you will be filing for primary custody on grounds of adultery and taking full possession of the house. Even in no-fault states they do take adultery into consideration because it speaks to their fitness. Tell her oyu will be having the OM subpoenaed to testify about the affair along with his wife.

But I would get ahold of his wife ASAP and have a discussion with her. "Getting divorced" = MARRIED. He is a married man.

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94

OM is supposed divorcing 1000 miles away and has a 10 year old he's not likely to move a 1000 miles away from. Conversely, your wife isn't moving a 1000 miles away from her kids either....so they have a doomed relationship and they know it. Thus they continue their fantasy in day to day mode. She knows it has to end....just not when. Heck...if she was separated she could just keep this going (by email, skype and phone) indefinitely.

Yes, I do see the facts. OM is 1000 miles away and has a "family". Not exactly the best conditions to have a relationship. This is a fantasy. I am also thinking about the fact that I may not be seen as second in line behind OM. What I am getting at is WW has a less than desirable image of being with me. If I kill the A before I am able to set the stage with a full on plan A wouldn't I be setting WW up for the next guy that is local and is not married? I just thought it would be a good idea to have the plan A soak in for a while before I started pushing hard from my side.

It's time to start bringing less carrot (still bringing some) and more stick. So what if she says she'll move out if you demand she go "no contact" with OM. The cage door is certainly open. I doubt she'll follow through (she's just hoping the threat buys her a few more days/weeks and it's working for her, isn't it?). Actually moving out takes time AND money. By that time you'll be ready for Plan B anyway.

She is able to fund moving out today if she had to. Money is not holding her back unfortunately.

The road to intimacy is paved with conflict. While demonstrating your changes you're also going to have to man up a bit and fight this affair more aggressively. Continuing listening however, don't actually believe any of that "maybe I just don't want to be married anymore or ever again" crap. It's all fog talk. Once the affair is busted up and she's through a few weeks of withdrawal...all those "feelings" she's experiencing will disappear. Ignore fog talk, Learn to fog respond her and just keep her talking (meeting the need for communication, admiration if you can and keeping her mind and time off of OM).

When she says: I need space, you say, I'll clear you some space in the garage or in the basement, but I'm not going to support you moving out.

Mr. W

p.s. - I was in a similar, OM 500 miles away and an old high school/college boyfriend. My MIL called OM (she knew OM and his parents) and she basically threatened him and made him dump my wife. Perhaps your inlaws will take more direct involvement and send an email or call OM making sure he knows he's not welcome in their family or around their grandchildren. After OM dumped her she wanted to travel to see if she could save it...I just said "NO" and left it at that. You can say "no" without explanation.

Hi Mr SS, welcome to Marriage Builders. This is where I would start. I would call the OM's wife TODAY and tell her all about the affair. That should be done without forewarning your wife. It sounds like your wife and the OM have been gaslighting her.

SS, I would also demand that she end contact with the OM NOW. Demand it. Her threat to move out is an idle threat to scare you from making such a demand. And if she did move out, which they never do, you would be in a much better position legally. If she threatens to leave, let her leave, but don't allow her to take the kids. But it will take a DEMAND to get her to do it.

I would paint a very ugly picture of how divorce will look for her. This will give her second thoughts because she is under the impression now that you will roll over without complaint. This feeds her fantasy of replacing you with the OM with ease. I assure you this is her plan. Tell her if this goes to divorce you will be filing for primary custody on grounds of adultery and taking full possession of the house. Even in no-fault states they do take adultery into consideration because it speaks to their fitness. Tell her oyu will be having the OM subpoenaed to testify about the affair along with his wife.

But I would get ahold of his wife ASAP and have a discussion with her. "Getting divorced" = MARRIED. He is a married man.

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94

SS,

Listen to the Vets....they know what they are talking about. They helped me.

We are all here for you. Demand the NC, snoop and snoop some more, I bet you will find more land mines. It is going to get tough, the ride you are on is not a fun one. Check back here often with updates and for encouragement. You can start to save your marriage.

Expose and Demand NC...... Without those two, you are swimming upstream.

The whole snoop thing. I feel like I got burned when she found out I got into her email back in August. Yes, I did find out information that was being withheld but it cost me a great deal of her trust. If I am supposed to be the shining light of pure goodness or whatever you want to call it, wouldn't snooping (and getting caught) just put me in the same category of WW? I know Dr. H's views on snooping. It just feels so wrong to me. The other thing is you might find things like the inquiry into a risque super sexy professional photo shoot at a studio nearby that comes with a black leather book to give as a gift. I don't expect to see a copy under the tree with my name on it. Now I just have to try to erase the thought of her wanting to do something like that for the OM.

The whole snoop thing. I feel like I got burned when she found out I got into her email back in August. Yes, I did find out information that was being withheld but it cost me a great deal of her trust. If I am supposed to be the shining light of pure goodness or whatever you want to call it, wouldn't snooping (and getting caught) just put me in the same category of WW? I know Dr. H's views on snooping. It just feels so wrong to me. The other thing is you might find things like the inquiry into a risque super sexy professional photo shoot at a studio nearby that comes with a black leather book to give as a gift. I don't expect to see a copy under the tree with my name on it. Now I just have to try to erase the thought of her wanting to do something like that for the OM.

SS, I would also demand that she end contact with the OM NOW. Demand it. Her threat to move out is an idle threat to scare you from making such a demand. And if she did move out, which they never do, you would be in a much better position legally. If she threatens to leave, let her leave, but don't allow her to take the kids. But it will take a DEMAND to get her to do it.

I would paint a very ugly picture of how divorce will look for her. This will give her second thoughts because she is under the impression now that you will roll over without complaint. This feeds her fantasy of replacing you with the OM with ease. I assure you this is her plan. Tell her if this goes to divorce you will be filing for primary custody on grounds of adultery and taking full possession of the house. Even in no-fault states they do take adultery into consideration because it speaks to their fitness. Tell her oyu will be having the OM subpoenaed to testify about the affair along with his wife.

But I would get ahold of his wife ASAP and have a discussion with her. "Getting divorced" = MARRIED. He is a married man.

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94

The whole snoop thing. I feel like I got burned when she found out I got into her email back in August. Yes, I did find out information that was being withheld but it cost me a great deal of her trust.

If I am supposed to be the shining light of pure goodness or whatever you want to call it

wouldn't snooping (and getting caught) just put me in the same category of WW?

I know Dr. H's views on snooping. It just feels so wrong to me.

The other thing is you might find things like the inquiry into a risque super sexy professional photo shoot at a studio nearby that comes with a black leather book to give as a gift. I don't expect to see a copy under the tree with my name on it. Now I just have to try to erase the thought of her wanting to do something like that for the OM.

Think of it in terms of espionage. Spying on your neighbor is wrong. You wouldn't peep through their windows, bug their phones, keep track of where they go for any good reason. Spying on a country that is detrimental to another country's well being is not wrong. It provides security for the country, ensures that you are protected and prepared.

Right now your spouse is acting as a double agent. She is pretending to be in your marriage, but is in fact playing for the other team. She is an agent of harm to your marriage and the less information you collect on this is potentially marriage shattering. Finding out and exposing helps neutralize the threat to your marriage.

Puhleeeze!



Puhleeeze!


Gathering accurate facts and data on the state of your marriage is in the SAME category as CHEATING/LYING/SCREWING AROUND ?????

Really?
On what planet?



It's like checking the math on your phone bill for accuracy.
It's NOT snooping.
It is fact-checking and getting accurate truthful data when you KNOW your spouse is lying to cover up their wrong deeds.





Mods. here I come.