SS, that is a great first step! I would be somewhat vague and just say "all contact ends today or this will lead to divorce. I will not tolerate this anymore." Under no circumstances does she continue contact unless it is over your dead, bloated body. Tell her that you are willing to give her an opportunity to EARN your forgivness if she does certain things. But it will take ALOT to keep you interested in staying married to her. Explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you are not willing to settle for less and won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. complete no contact with the OM for life

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc, no more time alone on the internet - exchange cell phones

3. no more opposite sex friendships

4. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph if necessary

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

What a load of crap. You are at this place because of her poor, inappropriate boundaries around men. MARRIED MEN. I am not concerned about her "forgivness" but yours. She has abused you in a horrendous, despicable way. What she has done is worse than rape or physical assault. So my main concern is your forgiveness. I would say over and over that you are willing to give her an opportunity to EARN your forgiveness but it will not be easy.

And when you contact the OMW, I would ask that she call you to discuss the affair. Give her your number and your wife's number. But don't forewarn your wife that you are contacting her.

SS, in most areas, even if you don't have a landline, you can still call 911 from a phone plugged into a phone jack(check in your area). However she contacts OM needs to GO. No one NEEDS a cellphone, so get rid of it. She will most likely get a new one on her own, but you will at least show her, in actions, that YOU are not going to accept her communicating with OM.

As ML pointed out, you want to be vague and say that her continued actions, in regards to the affair is going to lead to divorce. You aren't going to tell her that she has 10 minutes to figure out what she is going to do, or get out. She'll get out when you enter Plan B, or on her own, but make it clear that if she goes on her own, the children stay with YOU in your home.

ALL WSs want the fantasy divorce, let your WW be well aware that if she decides to continue with this affair that you will NOT be her "friend."

You do this all, while in Plan A. THis is all the stick part. Do you need any help with the carrot part of Plan A? What are your WWs top 5 ENs? How would you be able to show your willingness to meet those, in the future, should your marriage survive? What LBs have you been guilty of committing in the past that need to be fixed by you?

Remember, CARROT AND STICK.

Give OMW your WW's phone # and email.
On D-day, I called my H first. He said "Just friends" Yada Yada Yada. I knew he was lying.
Next, I called OW. She got irate and said "We are just friends. How dare you insult me by these accusations." She was in the middle of hosting a get together for her friends.

Then, a few days later when I finally got (most of) the truth, I told WH that my condition for staying married was he confess to OWH in person, in a public place with me there. (He did)

That's how you make one affair partner mad as hell with the other affair partner. OW was sooooooooo pissed off at my H for confessing the affair to her H that she never attempted contact again.



If WW gets her own phone, you sit right next to her when she is on it and talking to OM. You start talking out loud. (not yelling) It doesn't really matter what you say. Sing songs if you like. Whistle. Hum. Recite prayers. Whatever. WW and OM conversation should be interrupted. If WW leaves the phone unattended, lose it.

I hear you. WW living through my "down time" was not certainly no fun but I really don't place it on the same level as infidelity.

Did you go have an affair when your wife was grumpy, bloated and hormonal?
That happens once a month to most women.
Certainly no fun for husbands.

I really don't think that WW considered that there might be friction or hard feelings after a separation. I have been asking her how there can not? What kind of "friend" cheats on and lies to someone?

I feel like I have a good handle on the WW top 5 ENs but that is really my guess at what I think matches up with WW the best. She hasn't gone through the Q/A form herself and I haven't asked her to.

Very true. Don't get me started on when it goes past lunchtime and she hasn't eaten. I have learned to pack emergency granola bars in the car.

There you go!
Your perspective is more balanced now.

Ask for her understanding and her help, next time she brings out her 'score card'. Do not ask for her forgiveness. She will not offer forgiveness while she is wayward minded.

All waywards have a long list of grievances against their BS. They cling to the score card because it justifies their adultery.

My H's adultery occurred in the 14th year of our marriage.
One of his major grievances was from the first year !
Edit to add: It was something I'd SAID to him. One time.

It's not JUST that...it's also modeling appropriate behavior and boundaries long-term to your children. It teaches them that they don't have to stay in relationships with people that abuse them. You don't have to get along to get along with everyone...even if society and family are pressuring you to because they don't like the seeming conflict of it all.

The lesson to your children is....YOU MATTER, thus...so do they. They are and/or will be watching you and eventually taking those lessons into their future relationships.

Mr. Wondering

You, my friend, are a man paralyzed by fear. Fear is your greatest enemy.

You�re taking some small baby steps, but the fact of the matter is that the path you�re on right now pretty much guarantees divorce and establishes a precedent where she can crap on you and you take it with a smile.

It is time to act with conviction, decision, and bravery. Soldiers are all scared in combat, but some men can overcome that fear and act despite the fact that they know that a bullet can hit them at any moment.

So you must become James Bond. Be cool, but take action.

This means you take drastic steps to let your WW know that you�re doing being disrespected in your home, walked on by her, and will absolutely no longer enable her affair.

This means, very simply, that you demand that she end all contact with OM immediately. If she refuses, then you take the following steps.

1. Create a new bank account that only you have access to. Put all family funds in there and leave her with no access to funds. She is not acting like your wife so you don�t have to treat her like your wife.
2. You let her know that you will consult a divorce lawyer soon. You let her know that you will seek full custody of the kids and will use her adultery against her if she doesn�t end it. Say this without anger, but simply as a matter of fact, like you�re telling an enemy that unless they withdraw you will bring down the worst bombing they�ve ever experienced and you�d rather not go down that path.
3. Immediately block FB or put a lock on your computers where you can only log in to it with the password you setup.

She�ll blow a gasket. She�ll get mad as he77 and threaten you. All you have to say is that you will treat her like your wife when she wishes to act like it but that you�re done being her doormat.

You will be scared to death while doing all of this. You�ll fear that she�ll walk out.

Well, unless she gets someone to finance her leaving, then she�s SOL. You stick to your guns. You don�t have to get mad. All you have to do is say, �I�m not going to tolerate this affair anymore. End this affair and I�ll consider forgiving you and saving our marriage. If you insist on continuing, then by all means. He can take care of you and support you but I�m not going to do that anymore. Go to him if you want money and a place to live.�

It�s time. Stop dilly dallying in fear. I say this to you as a man who did so. I had a deluded WW who thought we would have this friendly divorce and we�d all get along splendidly. I look back and wish I�d taken the steps I just described simply so I could look back in pride and see that I didn�t act in fear but acted like a man.

You�re not acting like a man and she will never respect you as such until you do. Asking nicely to stop screwing another man isn�t going to work. You may as well go to their next tryst and sit by while they do it in front of you and then give them water and towels when they�re done. That�s essentially what you�re doing right now.

Fear is a pretty accurate way to describe how I feel right now. Between some of the responses I got from my posts and how WW reacted to what I had said Sunday night. I really didn't know if I was doing the right things anymore. WW has retracted again and closed me off more since my chat with her on Sunday. I felt like all of the "progress" I had made in the past month by becoming more friendly with her and getting into some good discussions and getting her to open up some about our future was really compromised. I went and made an appointment with Jennifer here at MB and spoke with her on Tuesday night. She talked to me about the ideas of cognitive dissonance and how WW can create of an addendum to belief. Basically she explained that WW reaction was due to the things she was hearing not fitting into her frame of reference that included me in her life as a friend.

I have put together a letter that I am going to give to WW tonight. I would like to post it here for critique but am unsure if the mods would go for that. Thank you.

Ending an affair requires that you stop being nice and take action. Fear and letters aren�t going to get you anywhere. Take it from someone who wrote several heartfelt letters. They do nothing. They don�t create a spark of, �Gosh, I never saw it that way before. I�m going to end my affair and save my marriage. I�m such a foolish woman!�

Stop it.

Actions will be the only thing that save your marriage. That means ticking her off. That means overcoming your fear.

Again, I say this to you as a man who was paralyzed by fear and was in your shoes. My approach got me divorced and without anything, including regular time with my kids. Why? I didn�t fight her on anything. I felt that if I made things easier and did as she wished that we�d be back together. She even said so to me. She had me believing that doing things as she wanted would lead to reconciliation eventually.

You know what happened once it was official? There were no more restrictions on her. She did as she wished and there was never any chance of reconciliation.

Granted, I�m glad there wasn�t since I�m happily remarried with a woman I�m actually happy with versus the he77 that was my marriage. Nevertheless, I say this to you: If you want to save your marriage you have to take action. That doesn�t mean you write another letter that will accomplish nothing.

It means ending the affair, which requires that you tick her off. Get it yet?

Lostdads is exactly right about this. I've seen it played out on this board many times in the 4 years I've been here and it is the same thing that happened to my dh who knew nothing of MB or exposure.

My dh just kept 'being nice' all the way up to the point that she took his boys and moved far enough away that it is difficult to see them regularly.

Nice BHs need a swift kick in the rear by people who have BTDT.

WAit a minute. Did Jennifer tell you to send her a letter? And what is it supposed to say? What is the purpose?

Did you tell Jennifer she is an alcoholic?

Alcoholic? I must have missed that....?

oh duh! I got him confused with someone else.

shortsleeves, what about exposure? How is that coming along? Have you reached the OMW?

Well, I spoke to Jennifer about that too and she said that I shouldn't be contacting other women just like WW shouldn't be contacting other men.

Jennifer wanted me to write a letter that stated a positive message about the potential future for me and WW. This would be followed up in a week with a short note (one or two lines) re-emphasizing the message and the a week after that there would be a third message that would be to the point (time to make a decision and get off the fence. I think the idea was to plant the seed of a positive future knowing that WW would not likely respond to that message initially. This would be followed up with other messages that would get her to make a decision.

At this point I don't see a scenario where WW will not be moving out. The only thing stopping her is employment. Once WW gets her start date, she is moving out. I am thinking that would be my plan B start time. This seems to be happening very quickly and I honestly have only been working and thinking about plan A. I haven't spent much energy planning my plan B. I felt like it was still too early.