If I wasn't with my wife I would have no need for a computer keylogger or to have a phone without internet or to go to bed with her and not stay up. I understand I would need certain boundaries with women but if she divorces me some of those boundaries would not be needed any more...

true but there are what...20-something others that you can follow for you.

You still have a resposibility to try and heal her pain even if she does not give you what you want in the end. It isnt about you. Right now she is struggling to breathe for the pain you have inflicted.

Well, the decision of staying or leaving this marriage is really hers and hers only right now.

If you read EPs thread carefully it said:


I read your list of EPs and I would like you to consider a few things:


Think through really well how you will do that, if possible ask your wife HOW would she like you to be fully accountable. Right now, when she doesn't want you around let alone discuss your EPs, you have to make up the full accountability HOWs by yourself. Your W's anxiety level will stay really high for a long time, so you need to think through every single step how you can ease her anxiety by providing the care she needs.


What will you do to avoid such holes? Change your phone number, block all their numbers and e-mail accounts known to you in every single computer/phone you have in use right now. You will not WAIT the contact to happen but you will be proactive about that.

You have said in your list that you will make sure to spend 15 hrs of undivided attention with each other to meet each other's ENs.

Marriages in trouble need much more, this 15 hrs is for maintaining romantic love, for CREATING one, it takes 20+ hrs. And as you have damaged your W greatly, then you cannot expect her to meet your ENs right now, in fact for a while.

Nothing happens overnight, it took you many years to mess things up, it will take many years to make it right.

Actually you will still have the need. You have shown that you are vulnerable when on the internet and you use the phone inappropriately. That won't change if your marriage doesn't survive. An alcoholic doesn't stop being an alcoholic when the booze is taken away.

Again your answer proved to me that you are doing these EP's for the wrong reason. They are for you. They are boundaries that you are erecting to stop yourself from doing bad things to other people (including your wife).

Hmmm, you do know that any other relationship you get into, you would still need to take precautions as the same conditions that led you to your previous affairs would still be present if you do not take EP'S.

I tried to fix things with my stbx and it did not work. But I will take what I have learned to ensure that any relationship I get into in the future, I do not repeat my mistakes and will follow the EP's I gave to my stbx and keep the new boundaries I have developed. The boundaries are your limitations to protect yourself, your spouse and your relationship.

Yes, it does take a lot of work to fix this whole mess you created on your own. But you have hurt your wife more than you'll ever know (if you are lucky you will never experience it). Show some care and respect for her, she is hurting and you two have a baby who is still being breastfed. It is not all about you. That is what led you to the affairs.

You should know that if she decides to work on things, she is giving you an undeserving gift that no wayward ever deserves.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

Read about just compensation and make sure to watch the infidelity video.

I've already watched the video and read the article on just compensation. I'm there already on my side of it. I have no desire to be involved with any of the women ever again and my wife has sent NC's to #6 and #7 via her facebook, and we will together send the NC to #5 tonight. We are working out how to implement EP's at the office and are already implementing EP's at home. I have already told her that I am committed to radical honesty and started demonstrating it to her. We haven't talked much about POJA yet but we'll do that in the near future. As far as the last part, emotional needs, she is not in a place to care about my emotional needs yet nor should she be. But I am doing my best to fill her emotional needs in any way that she will let me.

-Affection: is not really allowed, but I tell her that I love her and leave her a note every morning.
-Conversation: Most of our conversation is about what a sick f#$k I am, but I try to be there for as much conversation as she wants.
-Recreational Companionship: We're not dating but we still do stuff with the kids and go to church together.
-Honesty and Openness: Radical honesty and openness.
-Physical Attractiveness: Making diet and exercise a priority both for her EN and for my own health.
-Financial Support: nothing has changed
-Domestic Support: ramping this up even more in this difficult time for her
-Family Commitment: never wavered
-Admiration: It's hard for her to accept anything nice from me because she's so much better than me and thinks of me as pond scum right now - and who cares if pond scum says they're awesome right? But I'll keep trying.

Think waaaay back... Back to when you dated. What did you do when you started dating? Buy her flowers? Cards? surprise dinners? start there.

I never stopped that! well, in the context of having 4 kids it slowed down but I never stopped doing that kind of stuff.

Obviously it's hard to do now because she takes it as me sucking up and rejects it.

I can understand if you did these things at the same time as having the affairs. It does not have the same impact since it was not special anymore to her. I dont know if I explained that right but it might even be a trigger for her. She knew you did these things when your love was split between her and someone else. She may even be thinking in her mind you might have originally bought them for someone else and the meeting fell through and you brought them home as a 2nd best.

You may not have done that but her mind is going to come up with the worst case right now on everything.

She may need something you have never done before but she would feel the impact.

Guys, help me brainstorm here.

I'm trying!!

arrange for a sitter and go on a picnic, walk in the park, see a movie. Don't just bring her a single rose, or even a dozen, bring her a dozen tulips (or whatever she likes). Make a date of going for massages (make sure you get a dude doing yours, no triggers!). Baby her like you've never done. Do something she likes... Heck I dunno... paint her toenails or something.

Keep doing it anyway.

Its takes time for her to be sure that you aren't just "sucking up".

Have you heard of the book "The Love Dare"? That may be something to look at.

I don't think right now she's ready for me to be doing these things, honestly. We are only 12 days post D-day and she changed the separation papers to dissolution 2 nights ago.

She's very angry at me and she's getting the detailed anti-trickle letter tonight or tomorrow night.

I've done the love dare after the first incomplete D-day in 9/2009 so she will probably hate me if I try to do it again.

Do not stop now, that will send her the message that you don't care after all. She is in pain, shocked, angry, feels hopeless and is also probably very tired also, you need to be there for her, make her life as comfortable as possible, help her in any ways you can, this is not you time right now. Please, don't run away when she is in pain.

What are you saying Schlag? Do you want your betrayed wife to draw up a plan of action for you? Smile and invite you to take part? Be realistic. Your actions have assaulted her. She is bleeding on the floor, unconscious and you are asking her if she wants an ambuance.

Even if the ambulance IS too late - you dont want to be the guy who didnt even TRY to help her do you?

As betrayed wife I can tell you. There is a point where it may be too late. But your showing love and dedication, MAY save your marriage and even if it is too late, it will heal some of her pain. Plus you will know you did all you could to save your marriage and your children will know too.

I keep coming back to this one mentally. You do understand that it was always - and still is - in your control to change anything about yourself that you dont like.

You wouldnt stand around moping about a feature on your house you despised would you? You would get the tools out and get to fixing it.

The EPs are your tools and the hurt you have perpetrated on your wife is the despicable feature you want to remove.

By getting to work, you will show yourself and others what you are made of, whatever happens.



The chance two years ago is gone, but todays chance is here. You have help. Are you gong to seize the challenge or throw a pity party?

Your decision.

Did you see the movie Fireproof?

Who benefited most from the "Love Dare"?

EPs are never meaningless.

Yes we saw it together before 9/2009.

I think I benefited the most.


Apparently putting a keylogger on my computer is meaningless because my wife says I can just look up how to get around it.

Sir, you are beginning to royally PI$$ ME OFF ! (Imagine that - NG getting riled!)

"I can't do the love dare, because I failed at it last time, and BW knows that!"
"It's useless to put a keylogger on my computer because BW knows I can neuter it!"

Okay, pal, do this: Have BW put a password on your hard-drive and your operating system, so she has to give you access, and only when she's available to observe your sorry butt using it.

Go ahead - give us the excuse du jour why this won't work!