My suggestion - you have lost all computer access. You are not allowed on the computer at all EVER. If you use the computer; your wife sits with you.

Please knock off this nonsense. This is simple "pity-party" crap that your wife, the mother of your four kids, does not deserve at all.

Make her feel safe - I would also remove all internet, text, and app capability from your cell phone also.

Do you want this marriage? Do you want your wife? If not, then sign over the house, 50% of your paycheck, full custody of the kids to her, and move on with your life.

What are you going to do today to make your wife feel safe?

Schlag,

The one thing that I see you are very well-versed in?

How to shoot down anything that looks like it might be successful.


Right now, I think you look at suggestions and think, "If I do that, it will involve a lot of work. I will have to look like I am am humbled and humiliated. Also, it means that I will never be able to have any sexual escapades outside of my marriage again - and I am really not fully ready to accept this."

Your responses push back. The responses, "I already tried that" tell me that you really mean


"I started to do that. It looked to me like I was having to give up too much of what I wanted. So I stopped it, because I am NOT GIVING UP WHAT I WANT."


When I read your post about the EP's, I thought this was pretty good. Then, I read your post about the idea that "if" you were divorced you wouldn't need some of them, my mind threw up lots of red flags.

Why?

This tells me that you don't get the meaning of the EP's. You don't understand that EP's are like fences. They have two purposes.


Fences keep the yard safe from outside predators. They keep skunks from coming in and spraying your dogs. They keep the neighborhood strays from coming in and getting your poodle pregnant. Fences keep the prying eyes of passing cars from looking in on your sunbathing. A good fence keeps your patio furniture from blowing away in a storm, and from being the subject of envy or the target of thieves.

The other side of a good fence? It keeps you out of your neighbor's business. It marks a boundary so you don't go planting your flowers on your neighbor's lawn. You don't find yourself digging a new garden right in the middle of your friend's spot for the shed he was planning to build. You know exactly where your space ends, and where you are allowed to spread your seed for grass, petunias, or oak trees. Your dogs can tear up anything inside that fence, and you are the one who can leave it alone, deal with it, fix it, or call for help if you decide to do that. You can have your own limits inside that fence, and you determine for yourself how safe that world is.


Your EP's make your world safe for you. It does not matter who is inside the fence with you, Schlag. YOU need to be safe. What has happened in your marriage is that you have had NO BOUNDARIES whatsoever - and your world has crashed through the floor.

Only you do not see that.

And you stand there, STILL, like a little child, angry because your wife is mad at you for acting the way you did. You are pouting and saying, "Well, I already tried to be a good kid, back awhile ago, and it didn't work." Well, that is because you really didn't try, Schlag. Back awhile ago you didn't WANT to be a good kid. You wanted what you wanted, which was to have no boundaries. You still wanted to have sexual affairs and encounters with other women. So THAT IS WHY IT DID NOT WORK.

You find yourself against the wall now.

You are pouting and angry because you are realizing that you must change, or lose it all. You are pushing back right now because you do not like the reality of this.


My message to you is a harsh, harsh reality:

You believe you are broken.

You are not yet broken. When you stop pushing back, and you crumble, THEN you will be broken.

That is when your wife MIGHT stop the divorce train.

At this point, I think you are still foggy.


Get this book: Leadership and Self-deception: Getting out of the box
By The Arbinger Institute.


Read it as fast as you can, and absorb the message.


You need to understand your issue.


SB

And yes, I know that was hard to read.

I want your marriage to succeed.

Sometimes the message has to be hard.

If you don't put EP in place, you WILL either resume affair or have another and if you REFUSE to put EP in place, then if it were me, I would not be married to you any second longer.

Why? Your marriage is not a safe place for your spouse.

At this point either you WILL put EP in place and try to heal your M and move forward, or you WON'T. Will or won't. none of the "can't b/c it's bull puckey to say "I can't do this or that.." What that REALLY translates to is..."I WON'T DO THAT".

And that would indicate a desire and intent NOT to make your marriage safe for your wife.

That's the way we've been operating the last week.

Can anyone please comment on the keylogger issue that has specific knowledge of it - I want to install one that she got as a suggestion from y'all so that she can see everything that I do on my computer. She says that I can just look up how to get around it. Can somebody with knowledge of it please tell me whether it would be an effective solution? Assume I'm a computer genius who can figure out pretty much anything. Can I defeat it and what solution could I use other than the direct observation that we're using?

@schoolbus: I appreciate everything you say.

I have done all the work and I have instituted the 27 EP's. We're working through them. Some take time. We switched out phones so I have the brick and she has the droid. She put an admin password on my desktop so I only use it in her presence unless I can figure out a better solution with the keylogger stuff.

I guess I'm coming off as resistant to doing the keylogger thing when in reality I'm taking these solutions to her for "approval" to see if they are acceptable to her as an EP measure and she has doubts, which I bring to you guys for help.

I am broken and I am ready to do what it takes. I'm already doing what it takes.

Yes I am feeling sorry for myself here and there because I'm living every day with the consequences of the choices I made. I am very active in trying to get past that when it pops up. I'm doing everything that I can every minute of the day for her and the kids.

I am NOT pouting and angry.

Schlag ya know fella I told your BW not to believe you until she has you do a polygraph. Simple reason, if you are putting up so many barriers to why loggers wont work and then this and that, other suggestions and advice why they all won't work, then fella you have things to hide.

Mate its not rocket science, you either have nothing to hide or you do, right?

So what if you know how to get around a key logger. A tech reporting only to your wife could spot check that something was done to the PC at the very least. And really, thats all she needs to know, that you are not trustworthy still.

So again what do you have to hide? A second, third, fourth OW??? Ongoing contact? Evidence of sexual contact? whatever fella.

If you want to remain married you had better stand up and be counted, the pity party is not impressing anyone here so how do you think it comes across to your wife?

Its time to stop peeing in the wind and get off your butt and start SHOWING your wife you are committed to working on this marriage you have stuffed up.

For instance:

have YOU booked the both of you into Dr Harleys sessions yet?

are YOU going to give your wife a list of polygraph operators for her to choose and volunteer for the poly with enthusiasm?

This is just the start, a few more suggestions.

Schlag you are indeed coming off as resistant to doing anything that requires work, commitment, and yeah maybe some pain - for YOU.

Prove us sceptics wrong Schlag. As a beginning call for counselling by Monday evening. Here I'll even help with the toll-free number 1 (888) 639-1639 see not hard and I don't even live in your country.

Its done by telephone so you don't even have to get into a car. Wish I had that as the drives to and from our counsellor were at times excruciatingly silent.

Theres even a discount available - A discount package rate of $195 per session is given when five(5) sessions are purchased in advance. And Schlag you know you are probably going to need more than 5 right??

I guess its up to you Schlag, no one can do it for you. You will either stand up or you won't.
And though you may not believe it, people here would like to see you stand up and do whatever it takes.

So Schlag are you going to give excuses again, or take up the challenge and get the booking in by Monday?

Because the specific eps you wrote are for you, it is on you to implement them. Take charge and implement them then let her know they are there. The longer they are there, the more trust will grow.

CV

Schlag,

You should not be worried about the specifics of how you might get around the key logger. It isn't an issue, because your wife should install one and you should not be concerned that it is there.

Here's why I say you are NOT broken.

YOU SHOULD INSTALL THE KEYLOGGER.

And you should tell your wife it is there. And you should tell her that of course it can be gotten around, because every single computer program has some sort of issue that makes it vulnerable to being defeated.

The fact is that SCHLAG would have no interest in defeating the key logger, because Schlag's ideal world is that he wants to make his wife feel safe and secure. Schlag wants his wife to know exactly what he is doing on the computer.

Schlag wants this so much, that he himself purchases the key logger, installs it, and hands over the instructions so his wife can choose her own password, etc., so she can access it anytime she wants.

He doesn't even go about discussing the ridiculous side issue of how it might even be a possibility that it would be defeated.

Because Schlag WANTS to be an open book. He desires his wife to know all things about his life.

As he goes forward into his new self, Schlag knows that being an open book is the best way to have a marriage that feels right, is safe, and becomes the one he wanted to begin with - when he first met his wife.


BTW - every single time you find yourself in one of these stupid discussions about some nutty side issue - figure out what the RIGHT thing to do is. Chances are it has something to do with doing the right thing for the OTHER PERSON.

SB

I know I shouldn't be posting on Eric's thread here, but I need to interject a bit.

He isn't trying to get around doing the EP, it's *ME* who is saying that the keylogger is useless. I googled how to fool a keylogger and there were MANY websites that give ways to get around it. So, he can easily just do that and it makes the keylogger useless to make me feel safe.

In the past he has given me his FB password to make me feel safe, and then just opened up a "fake" FB... same with e-mail accts. So, I don't trust that he won't just find a way around it.

HE wants to install it to try and make me see what he's doing, but if you can just fool it, I don't believe he won't just do that, ya know? Does this make sense?

It makes perfect sense to me, Amy. He's bit you too many times. He's lost all credibility with you. It makes sense to all of us, if I may be so bold to presume.

So how do we get accountability on the computer besides me just sitting there and watching what he's doing?

And what about his job? Most jobs out there (well, ones that pay enough to support a family of 6) will have an office with a computer......how in the world do we get around this IF I decide a long time from now to trust him? (which I still think is impossible. ugh)

I posted on my own thread about this too in case anyone can help over there.

Yep. Shy of locking him in a tower with an iron mask and a chastity belt (and I would say that is not even 100%) under 24x7 armed guards, there is no way to ensure anything. BUT, he wants to demonstrate, so let him demonstrate. Heck, nothing is lost at this point, why not see how it goes, a day at a time?

he wanted to demonstrate before, CV.

He failed.

Like others have said, he needs to BREAK. Be completely broken, have a come to Jesus moment, and THAT will be evident. It won't be through a keylogger, imho.

I agree. He hasn't quite hit that point yet. I could be wrong, but don't think he has. Amy can judge that much better than me. I guess my point is if he is still WW or a ww in remission, time will tell.

Or a WH, cv!!!

I hope he's not a WW. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Sorry! I'm posting sick (and think I will stop for the night. I meant WH! lol...

Hey guys,

Here's where we're at now:

"Action-required" EP's -

1. I will switch phones with you so that I don't have internet access on my phone. I will switch my phone number to a new one. I will confirm whether or not texts can be accessed on the Verizon site and if not, disable texting on my phone. [DONE. OUR PHONES HAVE BEEN SWITCHED. I DO NOT HAVE INTERNET ON MY PHONE. ALL NUMBERS THAT CALL AND TEXT TO MY PHONE ARE VISIBLE ON OUR VERIZON ONLINE ACCOUNT.]
2. I have already eliminated all social networking accounts. I will not make any more. [DONE]
3. I will take polygraphs as often as I need to in the future to prove anything that can't be demonstrated otherwise. [FIRST POLYGRAPH DONE, WILL TAKE ANY MORE AS NEEDED.]
4. I will install (or you can) software on the home computer so that everything I do is transparent. I will return the work laptop to the office permanently and buy one for you to use that you can password protect or install monitoring.[RIGHT NOW SHE JUST CONTROLS ACCESS TO THE LAPTOP. MY DESKTOP IS PASSWORD PROTECTED AND I ONLY USE IT IN HER PRESENCE. PURSUING KEYLOGGER SOLUTION SO SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO SIT THERE, THOUGH I ACTUALLY QUITE ENJOY HAVING HER THERE TO TALK TO.]
6. I will work with an attorney to write a post-nuptial agreement.[NEED TO DO THIS. IF IT REQUIRES AN ATTORNEY IT WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE THE MONEY BUT I CAN GET STARTED ON IT MYSELF.]
7. I will quit my membership at the gym and only work out at home or close by. [DONE.]
9. I will explain to you the particulars of my pay statement so you know what everything is and where every penny of ours is going. [NEED TO DO THIS.]
12. I will figure out how to be accountable on my work computer or get a job where I can. AS SOON AS I FINISH THIS POST I WILL BE CALLING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY CAN UNINSTALL IE ON MY WORK COMPUTER (I DO NOT HAVE ADMIN ACCESS TO UNINSTALL OR INSTALL PROGRAMS) - I FIGURED OUT HOW TO LOG ON TO WORK EMAIL FROM HOME USING A CAC READER AND DEMONSTRATED THIS TO AMY AND OFFERED TO LOG IN TO MY WORK EMAIL ANY TIME SHE WANTED.

She requested a new EP for now that I call her immediately on arriving to work and right before I leave work. [STARTED THIS MORNING]

Since she has expressed worries to me about stopping at the library or other place to access internet, I am looking up vehicle GPS tracking - something that is easy for her to see exactly where my car is and has been and for how long.

Amy sent NC from me via facebook to #6/#7 and I sent NC letter via snail mail to #5 in Amy's presence.

For those of you wondering if I'm broken, I am. I wanted to change myself after #6 in 9/2009 but I didn't get the right counseling or take seriously enough the EP's that I was doing on my own. I have had the come-to-Jesus time. I am losing (have lost?) my amazing wife. She was a gift from God to me years before I even believed in God. I spent 10 years not even WANTING to examine what is wrong with me, only finding faults in her. She understandably has had enough of it. I am not asking her to believe in me one last time. I am only asking her to let me do the things I need to do while she heals from the damage I have caused her, and show her through my actions not my words. My words understandably mean nothing. She will either see the changes in me or she won't.

good job, but dont stop working on doing what ever you can to protect amy.

every day, every moment.

dont dismiss her feelings, her world has been rocked by the most devastating loss. you have had many years living with your affairs. this is all new to her. while its all over for you, its just beging for her ( do you understand that).

there are gaps in your ep numbers...