was it with another man? I'm confused as to what he could possibly be failing here. Unless he was currently involved with someone I don't see how he could have failed this.

One thing regarding exposure. If you expose to the OM, you can explain your situation. Chances are if they are in the middle of an ugly divorce, he won't have time to go after your husband's job.

CV

AMY, the more I think about this, the more convinced I am that his affair with the cop OW is still ongoing. And I will explain why.

His supposed "fears" about the OWH busting him at work don't make any sense. Why would the OWH do that after receiving a call from a supposedly "sorry" OM about an affair that was LONG DEAD? An affair with his EX-WIFE from whom he is now divorced? He would have no reason to fear any such thing at all.

In the RARE instances where a BS has exposed at work, in my 10 years here, it is only when then the OP and the WS work together and the affair is CURRENT.

Now, I do believe your husband is scared to death. He is peeing his pants. But the reason is because the affair is still ONGOING and he does not want to have his affair interfered with. THAT is why your husband is so frantic.

The reasons he gave for his "fear" don't make any sense for the reasons I gave above. If he was ever afraid of something like this happening, he would have been very afraid when the affair was ongoing, but he wasn't.

Your husband is gaslighting you, Amy. Don't let him get away with it. I predict you will be quite surprised when you call the OWH. You might hear some things you didn't know.

The phone call was made this morning. He talked, but it was on speakerphone and I listened in. The OW exH was shocked and had no idea, but told my H that all was forgiven. H told him he could call anytime if he had any questions. He apologized and asked for forgiveness. They ARE divorced so he didn't seem very bent out of shape.

I also made him call the OW this morning. I wanted her to know that he DIDN'T love her and that he used her. I wanted her to know it had nothing to do with our marriage to why he sought out an affair. I wanted her to know it was HIM that mailed the NC letter (should arrive there today or tomorrow- mailed from CA-MD) and not me and he meant it. He told her he was sorry for hurting her and her family and asked for her forgiveness. (I thought that was a bit nice but he needed to ask I guess) The only thing that really upset me was I wanted him to call so I could hear from her if there was something else going on or something that I didn't know about from the actual affair and the like. However, the first thing he said was "I'm sitting here with my wife"........so DER. Obviously she wasn't going to say anything then. He says he didn't realize that I wanted to listen in privately and I think that is the obvious thing, but I guess not. So......back to the poly guy tomorrow which is unfortunate. I wanted him to call her so I would feel better about things, but that comment only made me feel worse. I just feel like she owes me a freakin APOLOGY!!!!!!! It makes me irate. But, yeah, he left it with he wasn't going to ever contact her again and he wants her to do the same. (the letter will also arrive shortly)

Anyway, so......I don't know. The exposure call is made anyway.

Melody- I don't think so..... She lives in MD, is divorced, a cop, and has 3 kids. It would be very difficult for him to be having an affair with her currently when he hasn't traveled out that way in quite some time. He really did have NO reservations in calling the OWH. He was worried about HER anger from it all mostly because she's a cop and he revealed to her that he used her/didn't love her/etc. He wasn't worried about his job/family/her family/anything back then because his need for the fake and fun sex superseded EVERYTHING. Now that he's trying to come clean with his life and be honest it makes sense why he's worried about losing the thing that supports our family.

But I'm still doing a poly tomorrow to make sure this is accurate. Any ideas as to the questions I should be asking?

Yea like nudge nudge wink wink...... play along for the next few mins and I will explain later.


Amy you do understand an affair does not have to have physical contact to wreck a marriage. Instead of asking about physical touching you need to specify contact of any kind.

Amy, it is not difficult AT ALL to carry on an affair long distance. In fact, most of the affairs we see here would fit that description. An emotional affair - conducted over the internet - is just as destructive as a physcial affair. Many affairs are carried on over the internet with occasional physcial meetings. So the fact that she lives far away means nothing.

I am glad that you stuck to your guns, but I would strongly suggest you keep watching him with this one. The fight he put up yesterday to avoid telling the OWH


And that even makes less sense, because if he had broken contact what would she be angry about? The issue is that your husband's evolving stories never add up. He has a long history of dishonesty so I would caution you about giving him the benefit of the doubt.

I would focus on this OW and find out if he has had any contact with her recently. Any contact = continued affair.

I did ask that in the poly I did a couple of weeks back and he passed that question. I asked if he had seen her in person in the last 2yrs and he passed. At that point I was just trying to make sure he wasn't currently sleeping with someone. I guess tomorrow I will focus on if they have had any contact via phone/internet/etc. that I don't know about already.

He was just concerned that she would be super angry that he was going to tell her exH. And she was. She called him selfish over and over again when he said he needed to disclose the affair to her ex. Just kept saying that he was only doing it to make himself feel better and he was selfish. He told her that I appreciated the knowledge of the affair and I felt that her exH should know as well. She wasn't happy. I'm sure it wasn't good to hear that he didn't love her and he used her, so you never know what someone will do when they are angry. I'm sure it's a tiny possibility, but revenge is always a possiblity I guess.

The OW exH called my H back again and he came home from work so I could listen in and talk if I wanted. OW exH said that the OW called him and said they never did anything physical and that my H was just using that as an excuse to get out of our marriage!?!???! WHHHHHHHHHHAT? If he wanted out- he could walk out. No need to go into such great detail about 8 affairs to try and keep me. Goodness. So, the OW exH just wanted the details from my H and he gave them to him honestly. He just seemed 1/2 angry, 1/2 shocked, and mostly like whatever- I'm rid of her. He suspects she had at least 3 other affairs that he knows about....my H being the 4th. He wants to have a revenge affair with me! ha! Well, I'm not a dirty cheating skank, so unfortunately I can't fulfill that as much as it would feel good. What a freakin mess.

Amy

95% of my FWH A's were long distance. All it takes is a phone call/email to get that "hit".

I've done 2 polys. 2010 and 2011.

I could only ask 4 question (think that is some Texas law) and the Tech said "emotional" based questions will not work....as in "do you love me?" He says, "one minute you can feel love for someone, the next minute you may not, it doesnt' mean you don't love them"

The questions I used are as follows

1. Do you currently have any secret sources for contacting women that your wife does not know about.
*Tech went over a long list of "secret sources" ie. PO boxes, email accts', chat accts, phones,computers, secret files, collection of pics, memorabilia, ect....

2. Have you completely disclosed all inappropriate activity that has been made by you since your marriage.
*again, the Tech went over a long list and definition of "inappropriate activity" was. ie. sexual talk, flirting, kissing, humping, touching, OS, S, ect... he was fairly graphic in description so my husband had no wiggle room and understoon completely that it included ANYTHING I would not approve of.

3. Have you deliberatly watched porn, that you have not told your wife about? (I wanted to know this)
*again, books, magazines, TV, movies

4. Have you been completely honest with the questions your wife has asked you regarding your affairs. ie...length of time, number of OW, current contact ect..

The Tech also had some baseline questions that he asked before he got to mine.

My FWH had a little trouble the first time, and filled me in on the spot about some things that he had'nt told me. But, the 2011 poly he passed.

Our tech did suggest I let FWH read and "think" about the questions before the poly. He said it is easier to tell if he is lying if he has spent time "thinking" about it, and trying to cover it up.

I wish you the best!

Amy, just so you know, his asking that SKANK for "forgiveness" was a violation of the policy of joint agreement because you were not enthusiastic about it. Just agreeing to something you don't want to do is NOT the POJA, it is a violation. He should have never done it for that reason alone.

Your husband did not owe that skank an apology because he did not sin against her, he sinned WITH HER. They sinned against YOU, the OWH and your children. So asking his partner in crime for forgiveness when she willingly commited a crime against his wife and children is disgraceful.

Talking to your husband is like being in the Fun House. I feel like I am talking to my serial cheater father, seriously. Nothing makes SENSE.

Great post, lgtex!!

Amy
read the questions i asked.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2473858#Post2473858


also here is a link to my thread:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2559077&page=1

we did the poly in mid may- so you should read a few days before when the flood gates opened....

I believe we need to get to the bottom of her divorce. Did she divorce her husband because Schlag was preparing to leave you for her?

I asked him some specific questions because there was something from 2009 to 2011 that was keeping her fresh in his mind. I want to know exactly what fantasy they were building together. Divorcing you with four small babies will be very expensive to him.

The best that can be had at the moment is getting him to be radically honest. The first part of breaking this thick fog of his is to crash the fantasy still playing in his mind with reality.

He is still very foggy, and that concerns me. He seems to still try manipulation on you to control the outcome of the situation. POJA will correct that, but it will take time.

Let's see what he has to say about this relationship exactly.

Amy, did you see what I posted to you earlier regrading your polygrapher? I do not think the one you used for the first one was experienced if he was asking questions in several different areas.

I would urge you to call a couple others that are certified MarriedForever has also posted about this topic and the algorithm used, etc. The polygrapher chickadee used did the same thing - ONE area.

Amy, I would also urge you to please run some of these ideas by the folks here before acting on them.

Your WH broke NC by calling the OW which is Rule # 1 in recovering from an affair. The reasoning you had (to let OW know that the NCL was indeed from your WH) was not a good reason and we would have tried to talk you out of it.

There is a reason MB has these rules and there is a reason that Dr Harley says that any deviations from his plan are usually disastrous.

Why thank you Mel, that means alot coming from you!
I'm learning....slowly...

ITA. There are some lingering questions here.

The OW exH said she had other affairs, so I don't think my H in particular is the cause of her divorce.

I just feel too tired and emotionally drained right now to know what to believe and what to do.

I'll let him try to answer these questions himself later tonight on his thread.

Amy,

The first thing your husband said was that he was sitting there with his wife

because

he wanted the OW to KNOW that everything he was about to say was not coming from him. He indicated to her by telling her you were there that he feels controlled by you. He was sending a message about his "poor pitiful situation".


She immediately knew that anything he said was to be erased.


And everything she said, HE ERASED.


It was a fake conversation.


His apology to her? Was an apology for calling her, and having you there, and embarrassing her.


It was his way of protecting her.


I hate to have to tell you that. I hate this whole situation.

I hate it.


He got a fix from her, and he owes you an apology. You are correct.


I have told him REPEATEDLY that he is NOT BROKEN.


The evidence was that phone call and his apology to her, as well as his demeanor of letting her know that you wanted him to call. He was pouting.


And "telling on you" to her.


This is the very same behavior he used to reel her in during his affair.

He is still blaming you for what he sees as problems in the marriage. He does not recognize that it is his behavior that gets him where he is.




On another topic -

You were wondering why he has failed the question regarding oral sex?
It asks regarding OW, the prostitute, and your wife. The problem is this - it is not specific as to giving or receiving. My instinct says that he is deceptive around that issue. He may be avoiding it on those grounds (an "incomplete" act, since maybe he "only received" for example).



What questions would I ask? They would be very global. Not an inch of wiggle room.

1. Have you completely and fully confessed to your wife each and every physical or sexual encounter with any and all women, not including your wife, with whom you have had extramarital encounters since the date of your wedding?

2. Have you completely and fully confessed to your wife each and every inappropriate online relationship with females or males which you have had since the date of your wedding?

3. Have you purposely withheld any details of sexual or emotional relationships from your wife, for any reason - including reasons which you may believe to be justified, such as to protect her, or because you believe them to be negligible, or unimportant, or that you believe you would not call them inappropriate but your wife might overreact?

4. Is it your intent to withhold details of certain relationships no matter what, because you believe that what your wife does not know cannot hurt her?

5. Was your most recent physical affair one intended to become a longer term relationship?

6. Were you in love with any of the women with whom you had affairs?