Melody I really do hear what you are saying. Let's go with that there is no affair. How do I draw a spouse back out her apparent euphoria at the prospect of divorce. She appears to be happier than ever. Melody she just not interested in preserving the marriage, her divorce delusion is so complete and all encompassing I can't break through it. I have been going to a Christian DivorceCare men's group and we all have been telling each other our stories. Our DivorceCare coordinator after hearing my story he said its actually pretty typical of a withdrawn disillusioned spouse. He made the suggestion that I schedule a session with a NO Divorce MC for the both of us and tell her and ask her to be there with me. Then DROP IT, don't reason, plead, argue about it. Just ask her to be there. He said I have to do everything I can, exhaust every avenue, that way if she still wants the D, I can hold my head high I did everything I could. He said he has heard it lots of times before, one spouse in my case my wife, blames the marriage failure 100% on me, I did this, I didn't do that, they lay all the guilt and blame in my case me. He said that her next marriage\relationship will be the same and follow the same pattern love\contentment\creeping resentment and then withdrawal and divorce..all with my kids in tow.

Exhausting every avenue ...
You're gung ho to fix anything ...
Hold your head high after doing everything you could ...

Do these mean that you did or did not listen to the links I provided?

Thats ok. But don't pretend like you did everything you could. You did very little at all and probably could have saved it. Your Divorce Care coordinator doesn't know how to save marriages, we do. But that is ok. It is your life, not mine. I saved my marriage. Good luck.

The links do not work.

I am sorry you are exasperated. I know you still insist and you are sure my wife is having a PA\EA. That I should continue to dig while my wife plots the divorce. I just have found zero concrete evidence besides her being attached to her cellphone as any proof. What kind of interligence could a PI uncover, what if she is having an EA, how can prove that, or if a PA is so buried the investigator can't find out. Do they do the bugging of the car, GPS tracking, long distance photography?

I'm sorry, hume. I just tested, and they work perfectly for me. What do you see when you click on them?

They won't play.

You're taking advice from a guy who already visualizes your wife in her next marriage???

I am not wasting one more minute with someone whose goal is to surrender at the first shot. You have done a very poor surveillance of your wife, which is why I suggested hiring a PI. A PI can usually uncover an affair very quickly. But, I have already told you that and am not wasting my time here anymore.

No, no, he was making the point that women rarely will stay single long if they are not financially independent, she would be forced to remarry. His point was more along the lines of what guys are saying, we need to cajole, convince and nudge my wifer out of her deep delusion and withdrawal and getting her to see there is hope and healing.

That's not what you said at all. His comment was regarding the way she conducts herself:
I don't want to split hairs, but these are two different things. The posters reading your thread will see the difference in an instant. Please be very clear when you're posting - it will help us help you.

Actually, what will likely happen is that she'll take you up on the counselling and will go once or twice. Then she'll be able to say SHE did everything she could.

We we tried to do MB, as in we both spoke to Steve H and she was unwilling to take any of the questionaires or even speak to him again with me or without me.

Hume, like everyone else is telling you, there is almost certainly an affair. You may not get any evidence of it by yourself because your wife is probably aware that you are monitoring her cell phone usage. All of these texts to "women" may in fact be someone relaying her messages to a third party.

Discovering an affair and then exposing may very well save your marriage, your wife sounds like a typical wayward, and may say these things because she's caught up in the fantasy of her affair. But of course, if you are dead set on divorce, then who am I to try and dissuade you from your current course of inaction? Much easier to sit back and let it happen and feel sorry for yourself. Just like it's easier to justify what you're doing by listening to someone tell you you were never really in love with your wife.

So, if a divorce is inevitable, proof of infidelity could very well help you when it comes to any discussion of alimony.

Quick update, still nada on the cheating front, she has gone underground, got her own cellphone, so that dog wont hunt anymore. She knows I was snoooping and told me so. Still claims after our mediation session with a lawyer there is nobody, even used the term "Swear on the kids life". I don't know maybe she is that 1% which is just that fed up. I asked her to be honest, really honest just tell me, it will come out afterwards anyways and then our deal here I go back to court and sell the house and everything, so you better be upfront. you lie to my face and I will make your life a hell when it comes to CS and Alimony, you will have to live off your family. Last time I will ask...I get "I swear there is nobody, no EA, No PA, no crushed, secret romances, etc."

Heard that a million times. From active cheaters.

Why? This does no good and will only piss her off. If you say honest enough times with enough "really"s, will she finally get honest? Of course not.

Please ask the mods to move your thread over to Surviving an Affair until this is cleared up. You need more serious help.

It is meaningless for her to swear, promise, take the kid's life, touch a Bible, or whatever. These words are not magic words that make lightning strike her if she lies, nor do they make her any more truthful.

It is also just as useless for you to plead with her to be honest, beg, use words like "really honest" and "just," and "just tell me." You are shooting yourself in the foot. Cut it out.

Whats funny is Dr Harley was telling a betrayed husband that very thing on the radio show this week. He was laughing at how easy it is for a wayward to look in their spouse's eyes and swear "on their children's lives!!" only to find out later they were having an affair.

So, this truly is not convincing in the least to anyone who has experience with adultery. Rather, it is the standard operating procedure.

Markos, do you remember what day it was that Dr Harley was laughing about how many cheaters he has heard "swear on their children's life" that they weren't having an affair?

p.s. hume, I want this thread to be a testament to the fact that we did TELL you there was an affair so when you find out about the affair you can't say we didn't warn you. We did everything in our power to convince you and you rejected it. So it is not our fault that you lost your marriage over an affair.

WE TRIED.

You REJECTED