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Lgtex1 #2561247 11/05/11 05:34 PM
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I don't understand how you can flunk #1. You either did or you didn't and not remembering is crap.

My WH and his OW talked extensively about how he was leaving me. That isn't something you forget especially when you have a ton of CS, Alimony, and very small kids at home.

Did you Schlag tell your POSOW you are leaving your wife for her?

Is that the reason she divorced her husband?

Did you break up her marriage?

Did your POSOW state you to at anytime during your affair she will be a great mom to your kids and will love them like her own?

Did your POSOW and you talk over the past two years?

How did POSOW react to Baby #4?

Did POSOW need your money?

Is POSOW a gold digger?

These are straight up "yes or no" answers. Tell you wife tonight the answers. Tell her the truth.

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Schlag,

You have failed a polygraph because you are a deceiver. YOU LIE.



Even your so-called explanation reeks, Schlag. You are not broken. You are still scrambling for some sort of explanation for "how you could possibly have failed a polygraph".

Duh. You lied, Schlag. That is the explanation. Life is not this complicated.

I wanted to write you a book on "what you want". I wish to give you a condensed version...I don't know where to start!


You want your wife to believe you, because it will be easier FOR YOU.

You want to keep your affair life secrets, because it makes YOU less accountable.

You want to lie to your wife about the fact that you told your most recent OW that you loved her, because YOU don't want to deal with all that entails in your marriage.

You want to lie about the details of homosexual affair, because you think minimizing it will be better FOR YOU. (Personally, I believe this is why you keep failing the polygraph. IMHO)

You want your wife to believe you are committed to the marriage, but when you contacted the OW, the wife went under the bus so you could make YOURSELF look good and protect the OW.

Your pattern of lying to your wife (and others) is a way of life for you. You believe that you have a right to hide what you do not want others to know, and to do whatever you want to do. The belief system you have is that you "deserve" whatever you want - and when you go looking for a sexual encounter with someone else, you justify it by somehow blaming your wife for her "shortcomings" (you may say that she doesn't meet your sexual needs, she doesn't have SF with you often enough, or in the ways that please you, you two don't connect anymore, she doesn't understand you or your needs, etc., or that you two have become distant over the years, yadda-yadda....and you have decided that these "reasons" make you entitled to your affairs - even though they are LIES).



The fact is, that you have decided that you want what you want when you want it; that you will lie to get it; you will lie to protect your secrets so you will not be judged or receive any consequences for what you have done.


When - if ever - you decide to completely and truthfully confess all the details to your wife, you will be able to move forward toward a recovery.


Until then, you will be guaranteed to have your feet nailed to the floor exactly where you stand right now.

I will tell you that your choice right now is one of nails.


It is of course, your own choice. Do not complain about the blood on the floor, or of the tight shoes.




You could choose to change your pattern. It is your own fear of consequences that is keeping you nailed where you are. Then again, if you continue to choose to lie, you will remain where you are anyway, and will watch Amy walk away. You will then get to have what you seem to want, which is your freedom to sleep around. Or, is it really what you want? Choose carefully.


Schoolbus


Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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Shlag,

I just remembered something from my DDay's..... Mabye my husband has had A's with so many OW that he can't even remember how many!

Is that the case? questions 4&5?

If so, tell Amy. Your coming clean is the ONLY hope you have left. Doing this "lying game" is getting you no-where!


BS(me)
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DS x 3



Dont let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

Col. 2:8 (NLT)
Lgtex1 #2561264 11/05/11 06:18 PM
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He is hiding something about the cop OW. That is why he flipped out about calling her husband. And that is why he flunked the polygraph. He would have nothing to lose if the affair was long gone. But apparently that is not the case since he is trying to hard to hide the affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Schlag #2561300 11/05/11 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Schlag
Well, I'm devastated and horrified at the polygraph results.

Schlag,

I have to admit that I am a little horrified as well, and we've never met. Let me comment on a few things you wrote.


The questions were:

1. Did you tell Michelle that you would leave Amy for her?

(I had her change it from "Did you talk about leaving Amy for her" so that I would be sure to pass it.)

On thing I have become VERY aware of is how people use speech...Or don't use it. A hundred words and meaning can be conveyed in what someone says or doesn't say. For instance... If OW says "would you ever leave amy for me?" A nod, a kiss, a hug, could convey positive affirmation of this, in essence saying yes. Or even saying something like "I will love you forever" in the right context can convey something like that. On the flip side of the equation, not saying anything when someone asks you something can communicate tons as well. Words, body language all in the midst of a conversation are PART of conversation. The thing is, you did "talk" about it in some way, through verbal or non verbal communication. This is the box you need to be thinking in.

2. Are you being honest about your intentions in telling Michelle that Amy was in the room for the phone call?

(I was sure I would pass this one)


Obviously you meant something different. What people were seeing (and I think you and Amy should go back and reread this WHOLE thread carefully) is that you have really been playing CYA for a good long while. The lying is so deep and embedded that you do not realize you are lying to yourself. Trust me, go back and reread this thread with different eyes. Almost everything you said has been a hedging your bets, playing it safe and covering yourself. Thing is, I think you knew the truth. This is one of the reasons you asked for the question for #1 to be reworded. You were hedging your bets, hoping that a different question would get better results. If you were really being honest...with yourself and Amy, the question as originally worded would have sufficed. You wanted a different answer so you thought you could craft it in a way that you would get an "A"

3. Are you witholding information about any sexual or emotional affair from Amy?

Sexual info would cover flirting, chatting, maybe more details about your homosexual encounter that you never followed through on, but maybe went further than you let on to Amy. You are equivocating with what "sexual" is

4. Are you witholding any information about sexual internet activities from Amy?

I thought that I would pass with flying colors on at least the first two.

Well you knew you were. By your own admission of not remembering, a simple logical deduction (if you were telling the truth there) would be that 1. I regularly looked at porn in the past 2. I didn't think anything of it, so casually "forgot" it. 3. I continued it after I confessed it, Therefore I looked at porn

Thing I don't get here Schlag, is why in the world did you think you would fail if you were telling the truth? You would have passed all these questions if you truly didn't remember, by erring on the side of caution and answering "yes" to them.


I thought I might have a problem with the last two because there's so much I don't remember and I really feared those questions.

But I failed all of them.

So I apparently am lying even to myself.

The destruction caused by lying is indescribable. In some ways, it is worse than the cheating itself. You failed them all because you are desperate to appear better than you are. The truth is, what you have done (and these are going to be hard words here) and what you are continuing to do is despicable. You are destroying your wife and the truth is, it is because you are wanting to appear to be something you aren't.

Schlag, I am not a hate the sin, love the sinner type of guy. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks... As a man speaks, so he is... We are what is in our hearts, not what we portray... Know what that means? It means you can say and do all the right things on the outside, but if the inside is rotten, it won't matter. It's like packing rotten apple flesh into a banana skin. On the outside it looks like a banana, but really it's just a rotten apple. The first part to fixing this is admission. recognizing that really you are just a rotten apple. but that's not enough. If you want to be a banana, you have to get rid of the bad apple. That starts with coming 100% clean (and you can do it). Then staying clean. It hurts. really bad, because you gotta dig it all out. Like a guy going to the dentist because he has a tooth ache. He finds out that he can't just have a cavity filled, he needs it drilled out and the bad stuff replaced. A lot of people want to just get some pain pills to make the symptoms go away, but what is needed is surgery. You need surgery. The bad needs to be rooted out. drilled, scraped, cleaned and replaced with something good, solid and healthy.

In short, you need to simply stop lying and start telling the truth. When in doubt, err on the side of caution (not lying, but applying simple logic). Ask yourself "what type of man am I really?" Ask Amy. She will tell you. Use this as the template for your logical deductions.


Amy and I have talked about this for the last hour and a half and the only explanation for what everybody else is seeing is that Michelle meant/means more to me that I will even admit to myself. Enough that I could lie to myself two days ago in that phone call and believe my reason for saying Amy was listening.

Yes. it is obvious. What does this mean? It means that you need to start being honest with yourself. This is why your EPs need to be so darned tight. They are called extraordinary for a reason. One thing you can do immediately is start listening to what everyone is saying. There is a wealth of wisdom here and many people that have dealt with this and can help. Frankly, I am surprised that some of the folks are still posting. My heartfelt suggestion is extreme contrition and following what folks like ML, SB, CP and so many others are saying. It will be painful, but like that bad tooth, it has to hurt when it comes out, and it hurts when the healing starts, but you know it will be getting better, because you aren't just treating symptoms, you are treating the root problem.

I also must be lying to myself about telling Michelle I wanted to leave Amy for her. I know that I never said those words, but I must know underneath that the words I did say, and comments like the Brady Bunch comment, really did say to her that I wanted to leave Amy for her. I am absolutely certain that the conscious thought I had about leaving Amy for her was dismissed because I never really wanted to leave Amy for her.

The question wasn't what you wanted. It was what was said. What you wanted is irrelevant. You need to listen carefully to what is being said as opposed to what you are hearing.

When I handle mediation with people, I use a contrived formula to help with communication. It goes like this:

1. Person one asks a question

2. Person 2 repeats the question and explains what he thinks person one is asking

3. Person one confirms this or denies it

4a. If person one confirms it, person 2 answers the question and only the question with no qualification

4b. If person 1 says no, person 1 says "what I mean is X"

5. The process is repeated until the question is answered.

I have found this extremely helpful in discussion. Try it.



There are no other sexual contacts besides the list I've posted. (The "experimental" thing I didn't list in public was seeking a homosexual affair that was never followed through on. Amy knows fully about that.)

So The deception all around just has to be me lying to myself about the entire Michelle relationship. I don't want to believe that I loved her. I know that I believe that I don't love her today. But the phone call two days ago says that on some level I was sabotaging what I was trying to say to her.

The question isn't what you *want* to believe, but what really **IS**

If I am witholding truth, it is from myself. Which is really scary for me and for Amy right now.

Of course it is. Because you aren't just lying by omission to yourself, but to Amy as well.


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Originally Posted By: Amalynn5
I know what everyone wants to do is crap all over Eric and trust me..... no one wants to do that more than me. I am ENRAGED. However........can anyone please just be helpful and try and figure out how on earth to get the truth out? Or is that just hopeless? He needs real advice right now.... as do I.


Amy,

Eric is going to have to take a long hard look at himself. I don't believe it is hopeless. My last post was an attempt to help him begin being honest with himself. My advice to you is to continue to be honest, hold him accountable. He will either tell the truth or not. We cannot force him, all we can do is give him guidance. the real work will lay with him to either start really looking at what he's saying and why or just continue like he's been.


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Originally Posted By: Amalynn5
Karma- he knows it and I actually just said those exact words a few minutes ago. He swears he has no idea what is in his conscience that is making the lie detector tests go crazy. He thinks there must be something, but he says he doesn't know. It's just very scary how mentally ill he sounds......

Sorry- I'll go back and stay on my thread.


One more post to you... I am not a big advocate of the "mental illness card". I think that some people are, but for most people it is just good ole fashioned sin. As we know, sin begets sin. It is a spiraling pattern. lying begets more lying. So much so that one who entrenches himself in it, cannot often tell what the truth is. This is why I suggested he quit explaining to everyone and start doing. Simply put, he needs to stop sinning. In MB terms, he needs to stop lying and adopt a policy of radical openness and honesty.

CV


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Schlag...

You are now in the league of my xwh. He was a liar who lied so much he couldn't tell the truth from a lie and his own behaviors were so so convincing that nobody knew when it was a lie or the truth.

He was also very emotionally abusive as professional liars like yourself, are gaslighters to their spouses. Horrible gaslighters.

You have emotionally abused your w many times. And you're stuffed your lies down so far so that you don't have to deal with them. But now Schlag, the chickens have come home to roost.

You have a choice now. And it is one that could save your life.

Do you spiral downward further and become like my xwh? A man who was a ceo who gave his life away for nothing?

or will you enter intensive treatment to attempt to learn how to live as an honest and decent man, and receive treatment from your near-pathologic lying?

It is almost pathologic what you wrote. But like my xwh, he used his lying as a tool to get what he wanted. He wasn't mentally ill in that regard. He knew exactly when he was lying, but became so good at it, he could literally convince himself it was true...for a moment or two.

I say you're almost pathologic, because you can 100 percent control yourself. You simply choose not to.


Change happens by listening and then starting a dialogue with the people who are doing something you don't believe is right. ~Jane Goodall
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schlag,

Are you reading?


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Yes, I am reading. Amy read me the latest posts last night as we talked, and I just caught up right now reading it myself.

I am busy with other facets of the crisis:

-figuring out a solution to time lapse video tape myself all night when the kids are asleep for Amy's 8 day trip to her mom's
-Going to the doc to get a prescription for zoloft
-Talking all hours to Amy (last night till 3 am like most nights)
-Working on EP's
-Working on work
-parenting
-Doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, et cetera that Amy isn't able to do right now because of the pain (and the needy baby)
-Reading my book about male covert depression and doing my own self-inspection
-Doing the assignments from our counselor for my individual sessions
-Talking to a few male friends to keep me grounded, accountable, and sane

...so it's hard to come reply to these, especially when half the posts are assuming things like the affair is still going on. I appreciate everyone's time and advice, and try to get something out of every post even if it is assuming things that aren't true.

...and the failed poly even had me questioning my own sanity much of saturday.

So, as it stands now Amy is filing for dissolution which is no different than before the poly. I never expected her to hang on to this marriage whether she believes she has the whole truth or not. I need to get myself healthy and fix the things that caused me to trample and push her away all of these years, and then hope she recognizes the new man that I am.

I also plan to re-take another poly in the near future in order to try and give her some peace about what she knows.

But regardless of whether she ever believes she knows everything about the past, I need to concentrate on showing her now that I am here, I am serving her and our family, and that I only want her for the rest of my life. There is undeniable truth in actions.

Celtic Voyager said it best:
Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
One more post to you... I am not a big advocate of the "mental illness card". I think that some people are, but for most people it is just good ole fashioned sin. As we know, sin begets sin. It is a spiraling pattern. lying begets more lying. So much so that one who entrenches himself in it, cannot often tell what the truth is. This is why I suggested he quit explaining to everyone and start doing. Simply put, he needs to stop sinning. In MB terms, he needs to stop lying and adopt a policy of radical openness and honesty.

CV

I think Amy would tell you that I have demonstrated radical honesty to her by things I have pulled from my memory. In a few instances, more radical that she maybe would have liked. I'm learning how to communicate these things better to her. The problem that I have is that my explicit memory is TERRIBLE. She also has already vouched for this.

I am a little hopeful that maybe hypnosis and/or the Zoloft will help me pull more of my memory out for her and give her (and myself) a real indication of what this relationship with Michelle really was. Because it seems to be the thing that really matters to her the most.

She wonders why I failed the questions about other sexual contact besides her and Michelle and the escort. Thinks maybe there are shameful things unrelated to Michelle that I am holding back consciously for one reason or another. There are not. When she told me I had one last chance to tell her everything or I was out, I believed her 100%. She has never lied to me. She has total credibility. She gave me a deadline of 5 pm saturday, and it passed because there is nothing that I am consciously holding back. Nothing would be so shameful that I would hold it back when losing her and my family is on the line. Think of what I've told her about my past, and add on a few *horribly* shameful things from before we were married and in my childhood that I have told her. I had an affair with the WORST person in the world that I could have possibly picked. It just doesn't get any worse than what I've already admitted to her. If I had actually met with the man or had 20 affairs over the years, it would not be worth holding back when my one shot at keeping my family is at stake.

I'll try to answer some of the specific questions that have been posted to me when I can.

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Originally Posted By: Schlag
Yes, I am reading. Amy read me the latest posts last night as we talked, and I just caught up right now reading it myself.

I am busy with other facets of the crisis:

-figuring out a solution to time lapse video tape myself all night when the kids are asleep for Amy's 8 day trip to her mom's
-Going to the doc to get a prescription for zoloft
-Talking all hours to Amy (last night till 3 am like most nights)
-Working on EP's
-Working on work
-parenting
-Doing the cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, et cetera that Amy isn't able to do right now because of the pain (and the needy baby)
-Reading my book about male covert depression and doing my own self-inspection
-Doing the assignments from our counselor for my individual sessions
-Talking to a few male friends to keep me grounded, accountable, and sane

...so it's hard to come reply to these, especially when half the posts are assuming things like the affair is still going on. I appreciate everyone's time and advice, and try to get something out of every post even if it is assuming things that aren't true.

...and the failed poly even had me questioning my own sanity much of saturday.

So, as it stands now Amy is filing for dissolution which is no different than before the poly. I never expected her to hang on to this marriage whether she believes she has the whole truth or not. I need to get myself healthy and fix the things that caused me to trample and push her away all of these years, and then hope she recognizes the new man that I am.

I also plan to re-take another poly in the near future in order to try and give her some peace about what she knows.

But regardless of whether she ever believes she knows everything about the past, I need to concentrate on showing her now that I am here, I am serving her and our family, and that I only want her for the rest of my life. There is undeniable truth in actions.

Celtic Voyager said it best:
Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
One more post to you... I am not a big advocate of the "mental illness card". I think that some people are, but for most people it is just good ole fashioned sin. As we know, sin begets sin. It is a spiraling pattern. lying begets more lying. So much so that one who entrenches himself in it, cannot often tell what the truth is. This is why I suggested he quit explaining to everyone and start doing. Simply put, he needs to stop sinning. In MB terms, he needs to stop lying and adopt a policy of radical openness and honesty.

CV

I think Amy would tell you that I have demonstrated radical honesty to her by things I have pulled from my memory. In a few instances, more radical that she maybe would have liked. I'm learning how to communicate these things better to her. The problem that I have is that my explicit memory is TERRIBLE. She also has already vouched for this.

I am a little hopeful that maybe hypnosis and/or the Zoloft will help me pull more of my memory out for her and give her (and myself) a real indication of what this relationship with Michelle really was. Because it seems to be the thing that really matters to her the most.

She wonders why I failed the questions about other sexual contact besides her and Michelle and the escort. Thinks maybe there are shameful things unrelated to Michelle that I am holding back consciously for one reason or another. There are not. When she told me I had one last chance to tell her everything or I was out, I believed her 100%. She has never lied to me. She has total credibility. She gave me a deadline of 5 pm saturday, and it passed because there is nothing that I am consciously holding back. Nothing would be so shameful that I would hold it back when losing her and my family is on the line. Think of what I've told her about my past, and add on a few *horribly* shameful things from before we were married and in my childhood that I have told her. I had an affair with the WORST person in the world that I could have possibly picked. It just doesn't get any worse than what I've already admitted to her. If I had actually met with the man or had 20 affairs over the years, it would not be worth holding back when my one shot at keeping my family is at stake.

I'll try to answer some of the specific questions that have been posted to me when I can.


Eric (and Amy),

I gotta get ready for Bible study, but I want to post just a short thing to you and I'll sign back in later tonight...

My wife had 2 affairs over 7 years or so. One for 2.5 months, and one for almost 10 months, well on her way to being a serial cheater when I caught her. She was a habitual liar. She lied about the stupidest, smallest things. We are three years into recovery.

You guys can do this. Eric, you can lick this problem. It won't be easy. You will need a keen eye to be on you constantly and to call you out. But you can do it. Marriage recovery **IS** possible if you both work at it and you kick the lying. It is not hopeless.

Just wanted to let you know in the midst of all the bad stuff flying around, there may be some hope here for you both if you both work like the dickens.

CV


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Originally Posted By: itistoughlove
Schlag - do your four kids play a role in your decision to make the marriage work?
Yes, I believe that a healthy loving marriage between their mother and father is better for their development than a split life. That is what I want for them. However, I know that with hard work my kids can be healthy and well adjusted either way. I want to spend the rest of my life with Amy, and I want her to spend the rest of her life with a healthy, faithful, loving, honest, me.

What ultimately brought you to your "Come to Jesus moment" was it your life after divorce or was it because the OW dumped you?
It was Amy's discovery of the EA in 2009 that made me want to change my behavior. Seeing how it hurt her. I dumped the OW when that happened. But I didn't get the help I needed as far as the marriage builders concepts. I thought I could do it with faith and willpower. I didn't put enough EP's in place. The EP of getting rid of facebook alone would have prevented the stuff that took place in the last 6 months and I'd still be clean. The biggest mistake was continuing to lie about what I did and thinking that wouldn't affect things going forward.

Follow - me here ...

1) Your last PA with this particular HS woman was in September 2009, is that correct?
Correct.

2) Your last contact with this same HS woman (who you just called last night/and also told her xH) was in July 2011? Is this correct?
There was a chat in march 2011, then a call and fake facebook to cover it up. There were sporadic messages on the fake facebook (four or five?) and then another flurry just before D-Day about the original chat cover-up.

How did you keep this HS woman in your brain? What did you do to keep romanticizing about this woman? What was it about this woman that you couldn't let go of?
She was my girlfriend during the happiest time of my life, high school, when I was achieving great things and felt great about myself. She has that association. She made me feel good about myself during the affair, like a drug.

You stated earlier you did not love this woman (which you failed on the polygraph) correct?
Correct. But that isn't a valid question for a polygraph because love is such a complicated thing. They didn't even define love for the question. Did I love how she made me feel good about myself when we had sex? Yes. Did I care about her enough to call her more than a handful of times in the 6 month PA? No.

Why all of a sudden does this woman not matter? What has changed?
Because I know that the way she made me feel about myself was a lie. I know that my relationship with her was feeding something extremely unhealthy and was wrong. doing that was not the answer to making me feel good about myself. It made me feel worse about myself. She is a liar and cheated on ME when I was with her twice, and on her husband at least 4 times including me. She is a disgusting [censored] and even yesterday wanted me to continue the lie to her husband even though they are divorced!!! I never want to have anything to do with her again.

This woman divorced her husband in 2009, correct? What did this woman do after her divorce? Did this woman divorce her husband because you promised her you were leaving your wife?
No. I never promised her anything. I never harbored any intentions to leave Amy for her. In my affair-induced fog at the time I pondered moving closer to the D.C. area to get my fix more easily, but like I said before I the thought process about actually leaving Amy for her it lasted about about 5 seconds before being dismissed entirely.

What specifically did you tell this woman all these years about the state of your marriage?
I'm sure I complained that Amy didn't appreciate me. That was always how I felt in my depressed state. I pushed her away and trampled her so of course she didn't want me - she actually wanted me more than she probably should have because she's such a good woman. I'm sure Michelle assumed that I wasn't happy in my marriage if I was seeking an affair. I never told Michelle that I wanted to leave my wife, for her or any other reason.

Please be specific about your timeline.
There is no timeline... After verbal NC in 9/2009 there was no contact for 18 months, and in the contact the last 7 months I've described, there was nothing even close to me saying I wanted to leave my wife for her, verbally or otherwise.


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Originally Posted By: celticvoyager
Eric (and Amy),

I gotta get ready for Bible study, but I want to post just a short thing to you and I'll sign back in later tonight...

My wife had 2 affairs over 7 years or so. One for 2.5 months, and one for almost 10 months, well on her way to being a serial cheater when I caught her. She was a habitual liar. She lied about the stupidest, smallest things. We are three years into recovery.

You guys can do this. Eric, you can lick this problem. It won't be easy. You will need a keen eye to be on you constantly and to call you out. But you can do it. Marriage recovery **IS** possible if you both work at it and you kick the lying. It is not hopeless.

Just wanted to let you know in the midst of all the bad stuff flying around, there may be some hope here for you both if you both work like the dickens.

CV

CV, I greatly appreciate that, but Amy's just not there right now nor she should be considering the poly result on saturday.

But you're right about me - I will lick this problem.

I just hope and pray that she will see it in me before she moves on and falls in love with somebody else.

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Originally Posted By: itistoughlove
I don't understand how you can flunk #1. You either did or you didn't and not remembering is crap.
Nor can I understand. That's the biggest reason I suspect the entire poly. I even had her change the wording so I could be black-and-white certain of my answer.

My WH and his OW talked extensively about how he was leaving me. That isn't something you forget especially when you have a ton of CS, Alimony, and very small kids at home.

Did you Schlag tell your POSOW you are leaving your wife for her?
Never. BTW what is POSOW? It's not in the abbreviations thread.

Is that the reason she divorced her husband?
No. He was utterly shocked when I told him and said that he suspected at least 3 other affairs.

Did you break up her marriage?
If I did, it was in making her think she wanted something else for her life other than what she had. I never told her I was leaving my wife for her.

Did your POSOW state you to at anytime during your affair she will be a great mom to your kids and will love them like her own?
No.

Did your POSOW and you talk over the past two years?
See previous post about the activity in the last 7 months. After 9/2009 there was nothing for 18 months.

How did POSOW react to Baby #4?
She didn't react in any way, to me. Don't know how she felt when she saw it on facebook. Yes, I was that stupid to not defriend her in 9/2009. Ugh.

Did POSOW need your money?
no.

Is POSOW a gold digger?
No.

These are straight up "yes or no" answers. Tell you wife tonight the answers. Tell her the truth.

Lgtex1 #2561717 11/07/11 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lgtex1
Shlag,

I just remembered something from my DDay's..... Mabye my husband has had A's with so many OW that he can't even remember how many!

Is that the case? questions 4&5?

If so, tell Amy. Your coming clean is the ONLY hope you have left. Doing this "lying game" is getting you no-where!


Amy wonders this as well. I have told her every woman who I've had any physical or emotional affair with. Any chats and strip clubs that I can remember. Even a chat where I only talked ABOUT sex with a woman.

I know that other affairs would hurt her, but no affair could hurt her more than one with Michelle.

And while the gay seeking would be embarrasing to me if it had gone further, that is also not something that would be worth me giving up any shot I have at keeping my marriage.

Schlag #2561721 11/07/11 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Schlag

BTW what is POSOW? It's not in the abbreviations thread.

It is too profane to put in the abbreviations thread.

It means "Piece Of Excrement Other Woman" - but another word for "excrement".


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Schlag #2561722 11/07/11 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Schlag
Originally Posted By: itistoughlove

How did POSOW react to Baby #4?
She didn't react in any way, to me. Don't know how she felt when she saw it on facebook. Yes, I was that stupid to not defriend her in 9/2009. Ugh.



Ok, which is the whole truth?
a. I should have unfriended her in 2009
b. I should not have added her to my fake facebook account that I just set up this year?


See the difference?


Me -BS 40
Him - FWH 34 (dtl)
3 D-Days from 12/25/10 to 01/06/11
NC - 01/09/11
02/20/12 done beating my head on that wall.
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Quote:
Please be specific about your timeline.
There is no timeline... After verbal NC in 9/2009 there was no contact for 18 months, and in the contact the last 7 months I've described, there was nothing even close to me saying I wanted to leave my wife for her, verbally or otherwise.


How many times did you think of this woman between 09/2009 and yesterday? How many times did you fantisize about a life with the POSOW while your life in your home was depressing?

When you were at home, and the kids were crying, poop needed to be changed, Amy was exhausted--barking orders here and there, the bills needed to be paid, Amy's stretch marks were looking bad, her sagging breasts weren't the same ... how many times did you fantisize about having a life with the OW, a prostitute, or porn that would remove you from those moments?

Do you see your pattern yet? Do you see what is leading you to your poor boundaries around women? Do you see how your thoughts, actions, daily life make you vulnerable?

Can you see the self deception yet?

Pattern ...

Admiration is a very HIGH need for me ... Amy is unable to fulfill

I need to be admired all the time ... I don't care where I get teh admiration ... I just need to be admired ...

Your Admiration comes from External fixes ... Strip Clubs, Porn, Prostitutes, HS Girlfriend ... but not Amy

You know what is admirable?

A man, father of four, raising his family honorably, with integrity, and with character.

If you want admiration ... then do something admirable. Hot women admiring you isn't one of them.

Your wife will admire your pants off if you give her O&H. Otherwise she has nothing to admire. Your external source for admiration will continuously be drawn from Porn, Prostitutes, and Adultery.




Last edited by itistoughlove; 11/07/11 06:29 PM.
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AH! Tough- YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you...yes yes yes. Perfect.


ME: BW
Schlag: FWH or WH... who knows. 2 PA's, many EA's and other issues.
1st D-DAY and false recovery: 9/11/09
2nd D-DAY 10/15/11
D filed on 11/22/11.
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Originally Posted By: itistoughlove
Quote:
Please be specific about your timeline.
There is no timeline... After verbal NC in 9/2009 there was no contact for 18 months, and in the contact the last 7 months I've described, there was nothing even close to me saying I wanted to leave my wife for her, verbally or otherwise.


How many times did you think of this woman between 09/2009 and yesterday? How many times did you fantisize about a life with the POSOW while your life in your home was depressing?

When you were at home, and the kids were crying, poop needed to be changed, Amy was exhausted--barking orders here and there, the bills needed to be paid, Amy's stretch marks were looking bad, her sagging breasts weren't the same ... how many times did you fantisize about having a life with the OW, a prostitute, or porn that would remove you from those moments?

Do you see your pattern yet? Do you see what is leading you to your poor boundaries around women? Do you see how your thoughts, actions, daily life make you vulnerable?

Can you see the self deception yet?

Pattern ...

Admiration is a very HIGH need for me ... Amy is unable to fulfill

I need to be admired all the time ... I don't care where I get teh admiration ... I just need to be admired ...

Your Admiration comes from External fixes ... Strip Clubs, Porn, Prostitutes, HS Girlfriend ... but not Amy

You know what is admirable?

A man, father of four, raising his family honorably, with integrity, and with character.

If you want admiration ... then do something admirable. Hot women admiring you isn't one of them.

Your wife will admire your pants off if you give her O&H. Otherwise she has nothing to admire. Your external source for admiration will continuously be drawn from Porn, Prostitutes, and Adultery.





ITA. Also consider this. there are two answers you can give to the question when someone asks you something (aside from outright lying, that is) .. The real answer and the right answer.

The real answer is the truth. The right answer may or may not be the truth.

Question example: CV, does God love you?

Right answer: Yes, because the Bible tells me He does.

Real answer? I don't think God loves me because of the life I've lived. I've been through so much that I can never really believe in a loving God.

Technically, answer 1 may be true. But I'd flunk it on a lie detector if the real answer was that I really thought it might be propositionally true, but not practically true.

I think what you might be doing is this sort of thinking. It is a form of equivocating. Of course the right answer is "I never wanted to leave Amy", but the real answer is "I wanted to be closer to OW". Defacto, you wanted OW more. That is the real answer. You didn't want to just stay and live your life with Amy and be happy with the wife of your youth. You wanted someone else's.


make sense?

CV


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
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