Ok, just posted this to him. This is as far outside the box as I can think of other than the drugs they pump into you to make you tell the truth in the spy movies.

What woman still believes a man who has shown, without a doubt, that he lacks integrity?

Hypnosis will not restore integrity.

Amy, I would agree that your husband sounds mentally ill. All of the advice in the world cannot change mental illness. Although I think your husband is more manipulative than mentally ill. I would not put it past him to grab hold of a 'mental illness' excuse and claim 'I just can't remember! I black out sometimes.'

I went to school with a girl who would drift off into trances. She was a sp.ed. kid who was mainstreamed, this was way back in the 80's. We got to be friends. She confided in me that she faked the 'trances' because it got her out of doing things she didn't want to do. She would just stand there and glaze over. She wasn't mentally ill (although I'm sure it drove her parents crazy), she was a craftyazz manipulator who was way smarter than her parents, her teachers, and her healthcare providers.

Your husband seems to me to be a craftyazz manipulator, too. Don't let him outsmart you with his BS. He knows what he has done and he knows what he is doing, and you will continue to be his victim if you fall for ANY of his crap. For your children, I think you need to help him along to the bottom that he needs to hit to WANT to change for the better, and that means filing for D and implementing plan B. He's out of chances, imho.

I'm sorry. I know you didn't sign up for this.

(I posted this on Shlags thread also)

I may have missed it, but did he see/read the questions a day before he took the poly?

He needs to sit with you and go over them. You break it down as much as he needs, write out his answers and discuss it.

The ONLY reason he will fail is if he is being deceptive.

If he forgot anything, he won't fail because he won't be lying.

There is something in his head that he is trying to keep from you.

My FWH has poly's for his work. He KNOWS is there is ANYTHING even something small that he has not disclosed, that he will fail. He discussed the questions with me, and disclosed even the smallest thing that might set off a "deceptive" alarm.

Quick question. My mom wants to fly me and the 2 little ones out to see her and my stepdad next week to just get away and give me some help. So, the H would be home with our 2 older ones (5 and 7). I know he is fully capable with them, but how do I have full transparency with me 1/2 way across the country? He said he will still call me when he gets to work and when he's leaving and then he would be picking up the kids 15min later and can call me when he has them. I know he wouldn't be doing anything when he had the kids until bedtime, but then what? He has appts with our MFT 2 nights and he can call me from there so I know he's there, but what about when he's home here and they are sleeping? He won't have access to a computer.... but I just worry about people coming to our house maybe. That would shock me, but I guess knowing what I know about all of the lies I can't put anything past him. I'd really like to go home and try to escape this mess for awhile, but it might put me over the edge not knowing where he is. Help!

Oh and another question about the poly.......

He said the questions were so vague and she was asking so much about his past in the interview that he was having a hard time remembering. He was trying to make the questions more straight forward since his memory is horrible (I can vouch for that) and he didn't want to show deceit when he was just not remembering something. Anyway- the polygrapher and him got into quite the argument and were almost shouting at each other I heard. She kept reiterating how he needed to be calm and not fear the test. Well, that fight happened like minutes before the test and he was totally worked up. She said he even failed the questions that weren't the REAL questions... just not as bad. So, is another poly is order? Can this one be trusted? He has told me such horrific things and details about so many things, that why on EARTH would he still be holding in something? Doesn't make sense. I even told him I was filing for divorce unless he came out with it...and I'm going to. He still stands that he HAS told me everything. He supposedly passed the last lie detector on questions like "are you hiding anything about any sexual relationships from your wife" so why does it show deceit now? UGH!!!!!!

Also...last night he was laying there praying and thinking and a job search engine he uses popped into his head. He remembered adding the DC area to his job hunt. (We are always looking to move back home to a cheaper area like TX if a good job comes along) He told me about it right away and I remembered him asking me if I would be interested in moving out there. He asked me to check my e-mail records because I was sure it was over e-mail and sure enough......he e-mailed me from work on August 6th, 2009. His 4th work trip out to see her was August 3-5th. So, he just remembered that and said that he obviously was in deeper at the time than he realized. Could that have been a reason some of those questions showed deceit?

The truth is trickling in. I suspect more will come. He has years of things to confess. In regards to the poly and his arguing... I don't know him. I have heard of folks doing that to intentionally blow the test. If he has a top clearance, he would know the things that disrupt polys. Not saying he did it mind you, just thinking here.... Also, why wouldn't her trust a professional poly tester and want to change the questions. They are designed a specific way for a reason.

He doesn't have a TOP clearance, just a regular one so he's never done a poly before these 2 recent ones. He wanted to change it because he was unsure as to the conversations they had 2.5yrs ago. He knows he made a "joking" comment about how if they were together they'd have 3 girls and 3 boys just like the Brady Bunch. (we had at the time 2 girls and 1 boy and she had 2 boys and 1 girl) So, he thought there had to be more to the convo than just that one comment, but he couldn't remember what was said- if anything of substance. So he knew that he'd fail the question if she asked talking, but knew he never actually said the words "I'd leave my wife for you". But like you said in his thread, that can be conveyed in other ways besides actual words.

From Schlag�s thread 11/2: �I'm willing to quit my job and move some place cheaper like TX but Amy is not willing to do that yet.�

Some people, for reasons that just can't be understood by the rest of us, cannot be open and honest. Just can't do it. I don't know if you're married to this type person or not, that's ultimately your judgment call.

I'm really hurting for you and your children Amalynn. I wish you didn't have to go through this.

So where are you at in all this right now? Are you still thinking divorce? Are you thinking of trying to reconcile?

I am filing for divorce. He claims that he will win me back and prove to me he can be a new man. So, I told him that IF IF IF IF he DOES become a totally different and changed man, he can date me as a new person and marry me all over again with new vows and has a healthy man. He says he won't date anyone until the day I get re-married and he knows there is no hope, so we will see!

Amy, I wanted so badly for this to work out for you, I really did. But when I saw how foggy he was and how committed to continuing the lies, I knew you were in trouble. I recognize the language of bullcrap and that is the language your husband speaks on a regular basis.

I think you have only scratched the surface with what you have found out. I am so very sorry.

Amy - I am also sorry. I also have many many young kids, and I am doing all by myself since my WH has left us for the OW.

Being free of the lies is something I cannot tell you enough. The lies they tell break you, your soul, and is so cruel and abusive.

When Schlag is ready to be 100% radically honest with you, you will know. You will see it in his eyes. He will never speak of an excuse or a reason.

He will pass a polygraph with flying colors, and he will do everything in his power to care and protect you.

When that happens you know he is the real man you want.

We are here for you 100%, and know many of us moms are walking the same journey. If you have a moment read Tully. Her thread is a mom of four and her WH left for the OW as well.

I really believe the affair is still happening. I feel he was and probably still wants to leave you for her. He just doesn't know how to be a man and do it. He wants to lay blame on you.

Tough

Hold him to it. He's chosen a hard road. Not an impossible one, but a very very hard one.

CV

How could the affair still be going on when he exposed this to her exH? She was not happy he was doing that and told him so.....called him selfish and was angry. Also, he was using her for sex and he can't be anywhere or do anything to make that happen without me knowing about it, so....

It is his mind Amy - he uses self deception. He draws himself into a fantasy world that is filled with everyone loving him, admiring him, entitling him, instant gratification ... his fantasies make him believe he is the best thing since Brad Pitt

Here is the thing ... it starts internally within him ...

If he is 100% open and honest with you, then your respect with him will turn into admiration.

If he provides, protects, and cares for his family then you can admire him.

If he helps you domestically, financially, and with intimate conversation then your love for him will grow

The first step is Schlag - he has to change his life radically in order to begin the process. He must be an open book with you 24/7. Your lives must become interdependent.

He must internally start an action where he habitually derives his happiness from himself.

How do habits get formed ... by doing them daily, hourly, secondly

He is entitled to nothing
He is only special in the eyes of his wife and four kids
He is only admired by his family

Schlag has a lot of internal work that will need some professional help. I would look for a counselor that has extensive work in self-deception.

It will be a long path for him ... keep in mind the reward on the otherside is worth more than diamonds. He will have his soul back, and then and only then can he love again.

Schlag is extremely dangerous to you because he cannot control his mind. His fantasies are internally destroying him. He is out of touch with reality. His has poor boundaries so he lets everything in to feed him. This is why the EPs are crucial to protecting you.

Schlag is seeing it now ... there is a positive here ... this is only the beginning, and there will be many dark days for him.

He has never in his life had to work so hard for something. He goes back to this HS woman because that was the last time he successfully accomplished something on his own and he was proud of himself. He feeds off that time period ... unfortunately he associates her to his feeling of liking himself.

Schlag's life has now become unmanagable, and like an alcoholic, he is sucking his drug to get control.

He reminds himself ... I was something ... I was this and that ... I was a somebody ... because today I am a nobody.

He has two choices continue being a nobody or change his actions and be a somebody. He has four babies that want him to be everything ... that is the path (very very narrow path) he has to want to head down that path all on his own. WILL HE?

Schlag gets sucked away from that path by external stimuli (porn ,prostitutes, beautiful women) and then he sets out on a path of lies because he knows he isn't doing anything admirable. But his goal was to gain admiration.

Can you see now - it has been his mind, his heart, and his soul? He has deceived himself so much his entire fantasy has now just imploded and the loss of control has him spinning.

When loss of control happens the only way he learned to gain control was to lie, decieve, and omit. Unfortunately that tactic has run its course, so now he has to gain control by honesty, hard work, and character ... WILL IT STICK?

Agree and wanted to add...

When I found out my STBX had erased a little more than a weeks worth of text messages and phone calls with a coworker this past June, I freaked out and assumed it was the beginning of an EA. I told my STBX that I would be divorcing him and he came here to MB to try to get some help.

The first day that my STBX started posting here, after going back and forth with him a bit, MelodyLane told me she was sure it was a full blown affair. I found it hard to believe because on paper, it really seemed to be just the beginning of an EA (which he basically admitted to) and because we spent ALL of our free time together, it seemed next to impossible they would have been able to do anything physical at work.

She was RIGHT. She and some of the other vets KNEW that not only was it a full blown affair but they also KNEW after he admitted to the PA that he was still not being truthful about EVERYTHING. (Later I found out that they were again right and that he has been withholding other things regarding extramarital activities from me from the last several years)

Please believe me, some of these vets, like Melody, have the BEST bull*hit detectors I have ever seen. I bought into a lot of the crap my STBX was telling me over the last few years because (obviously) I was too emotionally involved to see the situation objectively. Sorry to tell you, but I see a lot of similarities in the way my STBX and your WH talk.

I don't know if your H is still having an affair right now, but I am certain he is still willfully withholding information from you. I am also very certain by his actions on his own thread that he HAS NOT dedicated himself to being radically OPEN & honest...yet.

Amy,

What I meant was hold him to changing. Whether you guys divorce and get back together or divorce and never remarry. If he is intent on getting himself straight, hold him to it.