She either protects you or she will be divorced. Dr. Harley suggests a man do six months of Plan A if there is still active affair stuff going on (ie won't do NC). This puts you to after Christmas. Then you go straight into Plan B.

ETA: If you are 100% certain there is no active affair still, then Dr. Harley believes a man can go two years in Plan A.

Does she have any other secret stashes of things you didn't find? Have you searched your entire home? Are you sure NC?

In many cases a wayward will continue to fantasize about the relationship with the OM. You need to find out if there are some particular things he did that you are not doing. I know that will be so hard to discover, but something is keeping her foggy.

Most likely contact. If you can rule out contact then the fantasy still exists.

Plan A for the past 4 months.

There isn't any contact as far as I can tell. I watch and have others watching for me too. She accounts for all her time, spends very little time alone. I check her phone, her search history and all phone records. Contact is not it.

Imdo believe it could be a fantasy. Can't remember who said it early on, but she is a camel of memories. She never forgets.

I'm in Plan A. I pray we don't need to go to Plan B. I don't know if she is strong enough to be alone right now.....

Would modifying the EP's be a LB. ??

Is this foggy behavior or just laziness?

Actually, my vote (Hey! It's Election Day!) goes for "ignorance", because there are two ways it can be manifested.

1) She could be ignorant of what your key ENs are.

2) She could be ignorant of the importance (necessity?) of working to satisfy them.

Tough to keep track here, T2S: Has she read HNHN yet? Have you and she done the ENQs?

If the answer to both is "yes", then I would submit that you and she have not worked up a system to track progress on them. (Yeah, I know, like every guy your first thought is a red star on the calendar to mark "SF" days!) But there is more to it than that. What "RC" have you initiated? Does the available UA time foster IC, and A?

At the beginning, it will seem "forced", but only because the two of won't have discovered the language that will make it "comfortable".

As an example, when my bride tells me "I love you," I occasionally resist the "I love you, too!" easy-out, and instead respond, "Yeah? Give me three reasons why you do!" Or when I tell her she's beautiful, she'll come back with, "What could I change to improve my appearance?" (I've tried getting away with saying, "Get a less troll-looking companion!", but she won't accept that.)

I took up (&$?&%?@-ing GOLF as a pasttime we could spend together! She took up "Raqs Sharqi" (aka: belly dancing) to entertain me. These things we did because we jointly looked at our "menu" of actions and realized that we had to MAKE, not LET, things improve.

(And do you want a sneaky little secret? Spend time with couples who ARE high-satisfiers of each others' ENs! It's catching!)

NG.....

Thank you so much for those tips. She has not read HNHN or any of the books. We took the ENQ early, maybe we should spend time taking that again.

Ignorance may be the issue.

I'm in month 4, I had a 6 month plan in mind when we started....but I don't know if that is long enough for her.

Should I tell her of the time line? Is that not just blackmail or a huge LB?

She said in our late night talk, that she sometimes thinks it would be better if I found someone else and was blissfully happy, and the kids would be happier if they had a new mommy. That has got to be her depression and low self-esteem....don't you think. I just told her that was nosence, and we all loved her.

I'm thinking of that EN questionnaire... Doe your spouse do it and do it in a way you like it done?

She may think she's meeting your en's, but possibly not (probably not) how you like them met.

I think this is possibly the likely case as it seems common with a ton of folks I know.

It also seems to be something we don't often focus on.

One of my EN's regarding affection is I liked to be touched. On the arm, back, etc... My wife likes to rub... She will "pet" my arm, back, etc... I kinda really don't like that at all. For her it's affection. Me? makes me feel like the cat. Had to explain to her *HOW* I liked the affection.

Knowing your needs and knowing *HOW* to meet those needs can sometimes be different animals. Couple that with the fog and she might think she's doing a bang up job.

CV

Don't tell her. that will be a LB. what if she snaps out in dec and is now dealing with "I blew it so why try". hang onto it for a while. I would advise you taking the enq every 5-6 weeks right now. seems like a lot, but keep it moving forward. Every little bit of MB stuff u can squeeze in.

CV

What do you need to modify for the EPs?

Yes - the ENs need to addressed. There is something you aren't doing that she needs. I would try and determine that so you can do extra for more deposits.

I had a 6 month plan in mind when we started....

Sorry, T2S, but I don't understand what your "plan" was supposed to have finished in six months. My first thought was that at the six-month mark, most BHs are slowly coming out of the "I'll-never-believe-in-her-again" maelstrom, and facing the "We-have-some-serious-work-to-do" issue. Well, congrats: You seem to be there about two months early!

Six months is also the usual "Don't-make-any-life-changing-decisions" deadline, and you've seemingly made the choice NOT to bail. ("I just told her that was nonsense, and we all loved her.")

All of this is good, and all on a schedule as might be called "normal".

Two years, dude. At that point, you'll probably be able to look back at WW's infidelity as A thing, not THE thing, that defines your life together.

And, as always, E-A-O-T-P.

T2S,

I, too, once had the 6-month deadline thing going....yeah, right.

I still operate in these 6-month blocks, so to speak, from last December on, but what NG said is spot on: it's gotta be 2 years, really, to have the perspective to look backwards and forwards on the marriage.

Hang in there!

Thanks guys.....

The 6 months was for Plan A..... I feel I could stay in Plan A longer, she is slowly.... ( very slowly ) coming out of her fog.

I understand the 2 yrs to "fully" recover. It may be longer for us in that reguard as well.

What I was asking... Is it normal or counter productive to change the plan in midstream. Are time lines just a guild that can be adjusted as we move forward? I know procrastination could become an issue if I am consistently moving deadlines....and I didn't want to fall into that trap.

Thanks CV, I won't tell her about the deadlines. I will also ask her to reevaluate our ENQ every month, sort of a state of the marriage questionnaire.

Do my EP's need consiquences attached to them? ie) no contact or you move out of house .... or Report contact or I fill for D.

T2S,

Please remind me: did you expose?

I can only say that after I exposed, we also spoke with SH, which helped a great deal, especially to clear some of the fog from my W. He said her withdrawal/fog would hang around for @ 6 weeks. Looking back, I'd say it lasted a bit longer.

In my 6 month 'block' of time between March (exposure) and September, the OM contacted my W in work once, around the 1 year skank-aversary. I thanked her for being O&H, and we discussed how to strengthen EPs.

From this conversation, and a tip of the hat to HHH for his clarity in this, I calmly and clearly restated MY requirements for staying in this marriage:

1. NC for life -- this means if W initiates contact with OM, or allows contact with OM, or OM contacts my W and she is not O&H/transparetn about it -- I am GONE!

2. Meet my ENs/build a romantic relationship to affair-proof our marriage (for her AND me!).

She has joked she has these 2 items tattooed on her frontal lobe, as she knows now, especially since I exposed and fought for her/our marriage, that I mean what I say and for me it's "strike 2 and you're out!".

Thanks.

Yes gently but firmly, thier are consequences to every action

Update.....

Good day today. Talked about EN again, and decided we should take survey again. We will do that this weekend. I also asked to go ove the EP's again. We are planning on doing this in the afternoon, while kids are outside playing, then going on a date that night. We need to schedule more UA time.

Still foggy, still reluctant to physical touch to an extent, but signs and attitudes were positive.

progress!

I wanted to run my updated EP's by some of the Vets b4 I presented them to WW.

1) NC with OM in any form, ever. If OM makes contact it must be reported. If it is discovered that you did not...You move out that minute. If you break NC...you move out.

2) NC with FBFF who helped hide PA. Same rules applies as in #1.

3) No FB friends with any former BF and we will go over list.

4) No opposite sex friends that I do not know.

5) Join me in MB principles by either reading books or joining forum.

6) Work to meet Top 5 EN. Take questionnaire every 2 months to confirm EN have not changed.

What do you guys think?

FBFF of WW contacted me on Thursday to say she was upset that I have "kept" WW from her. After a lengthy back and forth, she ended with a...... "F you, I better stop B4 I say something you don't want to hear.".
I didn't respond. Don't know what other information she could have, and right now, I'm trying not to care.

Do you have all of her passwords? I would suggest that you require her to put a pic of both of you on her FB profile. You should have complete access at any time to her FB account. I had my H shut his down entirely.

She needs to change her cell phone number and delete any email accounts known to her GF and OM. Has she done that?

This sounds to me like she was gearing up to really tell you off and then decided not to. I don't think she is keeping info from you. Telling you any secret she might have about WW would hurt WW.

Do you all have individual FB accounts or one for both of you? Many around here, if they won't eliminate FB entirely, will have one account for both of them - no secrets that way.

I'd also suggest doing an EN check-in every week. This doesn't have to be exhaustive; just a simple "how am I doing with _______", the answers are "on the mark", "right direction", or "needs work". At that point you each have the opportunity to clarify what needs to happen for them to get to "on the mark".

I don't remember if it's a problem for you, but watch the lovebusters - a lot of hard work and careful planning can be undone in an instant. Happened to me yesterday

I think this is dangerous thinking because it assumes that being "honest" about contact is a solution. It it not. I would focus instead on BLOCKING the OM so he can't get through.


Agree she needs to get rid of all loser friends who are enemies of your marriage.


No opposite sex friends AT ALL. [unless they are couple friends to you both] I would make it an EP that she get rid of facebook entirely. There is no need to even have a facebook page.



You need to be focusing on the top 4 INTIMATE emotional needs. It is those 4 needs that will make the fastest, greatest lovebank deposits if you also schedule 20+ hours of UA time. So, put aside the questionaires and get out the Undivided attention worksheet. Schedule out 20+ hours of UA time meeting the top 4 intimate EN's of conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment and rec companionship.