Why is this a goal of yours?

I don't see "convince your betrayed wife you never loved the POSOW" anywhere in the Marriage Builders program. It's just not there.

You are not searching for an answer to a philosophical question in phone records. You are trying to persuade your victimized wife not to believe and feel what her instincts lead her to believe and feel.

You've only got six months, and this goal is a waste of time.

Schlag is going into protector liar mode, trying to convince Amy he did not love the POSOW.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548148#Post2548148

Schlag is here asking us about this, not Amy. What can we tell him to give as an answer?

Amy can verify all the emails from the tech by reading them herself. I left them in my inbox, which is viewable by logging in from home. The phone records for the past 6 months are outgoing only up to september then both incoming and outgoing up to now. They show the calls made march 28 and october 13 about the chat (exactly when I said I called her) and no other calls to OW.

I know that I didn't love the OW. I used her. I got fulfillment from the affair but I didn't love her. I'm convinced. I would have missed her when I broke it off if I had loved her. The fact that I talked to her later in march and july 2010 doesn't mean I loved her. But that's not how Amy views it.

Because she believes it and she thinks until I admit it I'm not being honest with her. And until she believes I'm being honest with her, I get nowhere.

Do I love the OW now, or do I love Amy and want to be with Amy.

I think Amy believes I love her and want to be with her. My actions speak for themselves. She just doesn't trust that I will stay that way forever. Nor should she yet. Living this and proving this is my goal.

You sure did use her. The way you acted toward her was not caring love, the action of love.

Did you feel the feeling of romantic love toward her? Did you feel "in love" with her? How did you FEEL? What were your love bank balances with this woman? Did she meet your intimate emotional needs?

Dickering and equivocation:


You are trying to control your wife's beliefs. This is abusive and offensive. Stop it.

I think the correct answer is that you will never see the POSOW again as long as you live, you will never live like this any more, you will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to restore a good marriage with Amy.


Searching through phone records is irrelevant to living this. Proving how you felt in the past is also irrelevant to living this.

That's a great post. I have to agree that there were residual love bank deposits with OW, both from high school and from the affair. She was my first real girlfriend and took my virginity. In the affair, she fulfilled my EN's and I her.

So I guess the answer has to be that I did love her and care for her on some level? But not enough to care about dropping her at the first sign of losing my wife.

How DID you feel about the OW?

Saying you didn't love her, "I'm convinced," is not believable language. That is liar language and I would stop talking like that. A person just states how they feel, they don't say "I am convinced." That doesn't make any sense to say that. Something is true or false based on reality, not whether or not you are "convinced." You know the truth, so you obviously don't need convincing.


So there is an email from the tech stating there is a 2 month GAP?


So does this mean you do have the records for the past 6 months?


It is becuase you use weasel words like "I am convinced" and "I know that I didn't love the OW." That is not how an honest person speaks.

This sounds HONEST.

Yeah, it feels honest.

Yes! Finally!

That was my point, I dont think it is so much if he loved her that matters to Amy, it is just that he cant pass a poly either way so NOTHING is the truth to her.

I dont think Amy has said "if you loved her I'm gone" I just cant picture that. I'm not sure why that one question is the one she stuck on but the fact is you have not givin her an answer that will pass a poly for her to know you are telling the truth about anything.

Schlag, it is much harder to defend lies than it is to just vomit the truth and face the music. Do you see how much work it is to defend a lie? And it is not working for you.

It takes half the time and effort to tell an unpleasant truth, deal with the fallout than it does to try to peddle some big lie that smells like weasel.

And I don't say this unkindly, but as a former professional liar myself, you are not very good at it. You are persistent, but you are NEVER convincing. You don't have a talent for it.

See, Amy was right. See how she smelled weasel?

She can probably DEAL with the truth. It is the lies she can't deal with. She is not safe if you lie. She is safe if you tell her the truth, no matter how unpleasant it may be.

So, how do I communicate this with her without equivocating or manipulating or minimizing... I don't want to do any more damage than I've done already.

I had an affair. I wouldn't have gone back four times if I wasn't getting something I wanted out of it. I enjoyed it. Michelle filled my emotional needs and I filled hers. She told me she loved me (presumably) because she felt it, and I told her it back. I denied that I loved her to myself because I had some black and white view of love and I didn't want to believe I could be such a huge piece of s#!t do that to Amy. But there was a love bank being filled by another woman. That is undeniable. And I was filling hers when I should have been filling Amy's. Undeniable again.

I also went back looking for it again in the last 6 months. I wanted to change my ways 2 years ago but didn't get it done. I made promises to put in place what we now call EP's but didn't get it done. I continued to lie to Amy because I thought the truth would be the end of us. I failed in what was probably my only chance.

Where you the cause of the break-up of her family?

A simple start is by answering YES or NO questions with YES or NO.

It is deceptive when you try to explain, justify, deflect, or otherwise.

Secondly, if a statement requires a qualifier, then it is not the truth;


This is attempting to add detail that isn't necessary to the answer for your wife's questions.

No, you denied you were in love with OW because you wanted to deceive Amy. STOP with the weasel words and stop qualifying.


You continued to lie because you knew your actions would get you in trouble and you didn't want to stop your behavior.


The way to do it is to STOP equivocating or manipulating or minimizing. Stop it. No more I "didn't realize it was love" or "I was scared.." Just tell her the truth. Here is how it is: I loved her and was addicted to her. I lied about it.

Huh?

Bubba, lem'me tell you sompin' REAL.

My H when he was a WH did indeed love the OW.
He told her so.
When the affair was exposed, he dumped her and he did not miss her.
Why didn't he miss OW? Because he did not miss the sin. The double life. The lies. The anxiety. The shame. The self hatred.

Just own it Bubba. You loved OW. You told OW you lovedf her.
You're so fulla' crap it's stankin' up da' joint

Yep, smells like weasel in here!!