Amy, I am not sure why you think the affair is over. I sure am not. He could easily be in daily touch with her via phone at work. He can email her from his work computer. And she could fly in for visits. I haven't seen anything that convinces me his affair is over. In fact, when a WS fights that hard to avoid calling the OWH, there is usually a reason. Sure, he was using for her sex, but many other things too. That doesn't lessen the effect of his affair.

I am not trying to be debbie downer here, but what is it exactly that makes you think the affair is over?

Mel- I guess I just do. She is a cop and probably doesn't have a job where she can just fly in whenever and she has 3 young children. He did have a right to be worried about retaliation from her exH because we are almost positive he was recording us when he called back later for more details on the affair. The OW called her exH and denied it to him and said nothing physical ever happened and he was just looking for an excuse to leave his marriage. Uh... that makes no sense. So, he called back and at one point a recorded voice came over the phone and said something like "your recording has 1 min left". He "pretended" to freak out that we were recording him, but we obviously weren't. So, he might use that against her and go back to court about the divorce (it is final), he might mess with her job, he might mess with my H's job... who knows. We just had no way of knowing and we still aren't sure if he will do something. I do know when we called the OW together that morning she was NOT happy he was going to tell her exH. So, I really really in all of this DO believe that is the reason for the hesitation with calling the exH. After discussing it with me, he made the call with no problem. Also, if the EP is in place that he is 100% accountable with his time, how would he get away to be with her IF somehow she flew in here for a visit?

I don't trust him for ONE SECOND obviously and I think there is a lot more truth to come out as he remembers things (and he does... everyday...OUCH.) but I do think the one thing I do believe is the affair is not going on anymore and hasn't been inappropriate between them since Aug. 2009.

But, maybe I'm the dummy here and the joke is on me?

Real easy. The only way you can account for his time is to go by what he tells you. He can tell you anything he wants. Waywards do it all the time. And of course, he is free to contact her every day via phone and internet. It's real easy. So, I am not convinced in the least the affair is over. In fact, his adverse reaction to telling her husband told me there was something probably still going on.

Amy, how can he be 100% accountable if you have no access to his work phone or computer? You are not there with him. There are no extraordinary precautions at his workplace. That is where his affairs have mostly taken place. What precautions are in place there that would prevent him from conducting an emotional affair?

Amy, I just want to keep reality at the forefront here. The environment that led to your husbands affairs has not changed. Nothing has changed. He can still conduct his affairs at work.


Condition = not changed



Condition = not changed

The conditions that facilitated his affairs has not changed. He is also free to call anyone and they can call him without detection.

Yeah he is working on seeing if they can get his phone records so I could have access to those whenever I wanted. He has an e-mail out to the right dept and we hope to hear back soon.

When he isn't at work, I do know where he is at all times and 99.9% of the time he has a little one with him so that makes me not wonder either. He calls me from his work number 15min after he leaves the house for work. (that is how long his commute is) and then I've always gotten him on his work number when I've tried calling there since D-Day. If he doesn't answer right away and is on another call, he calls back within a couple of min. He also calls when he's leaving and is home within 15min as well. He has his 2 therapy appts in which he calls when he is leaving and our therapist yells hi in the background and I see the billing for it on our insurance statements that come in the mail. All of the rest of the time if he isn't with me, he has little kids with him. At work he has only a certain number of leave hours that I am starting to keep track of so it would be not impossible, but difficult to leave without someone knowing and him not charging his time.

The only time I don't trust what he's doing is at work since the internet issue still hasn't been solved and the phone either. He is working on it......I'll keep you updated.

Amy - understand Schlag is responsible for this. Yes the OWH's may retaliate. He wouldn't have anything to retaliate on if there was no adultery.

Many BS's want to get the kids away from toxic people. OWH may now try and get more custody or CS from her with this information. Ultimately this is Schlags and his to own 100%.

If he loses his job because OWH decides to interfere, then know that is a consequence to Schlag's adultery.

The one thing I noticed throughout this forum is more often than not Adultery ends up destroying everything in its path. At least 75% of all waywards (those who commit adultery) end up losing everything. Very few walk away with their previous lives intact. Most lose it all ... job, family, respect, money, etc.

update?

Hey, Amy,

I'm not sure this quest for phone records is really a valuable use of time and energy.

I understand you have some questions you'd like Schlag to answer, and you're not satisfied with his answers.

The fact is that for some of these questions, we here on this site can tell you more accurately what Schlag did, and why, than he can himself! Or Dr. Harley.

Some food for thought, from poster Doormat_No_More:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548148#Post2548148
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2547862#Post2547862
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2542303#Post2542303

Schlag is slipping right on back into liar mode at the moment, in my opinion.

Very good links Markos.

Amy, I'm sure he at least "THOUGHT" he loved her at the time.

My husband admits he did but cant even understand why he thought that he did. She is nothing he looks for but she was filling a gap in his needs so much so fast that he thought he was head over hills.

It is like being high on crack. When you are high you love it, but when you sober up you are like "HUH?" It is the same dynamic.

Not true. In fact, it's more probable (using the Love Bank concept) that he had feelings of Romantic Love, and either didn't know it, or didn't know why.

The Love Bank explains that easily.

Remember that, utilizing the Love Bank concept, when we reach the Romantic Love (or intimacy) threshold, or dip below it into conflict or withdrawal, we don't often notice it until well after the threshold has been passed.

This is even more substantial for people who have no idea of the concepts.

Amy, How are you and schlag doing? Are you back home yet?

CV

Amy - if you are thinking of dating, can we have a talk?

This situation may go from tragic to horrific if you are dating.

Any chance we can get an update and discuss this?

Yeah I was concerned to hear this too, Amy. We know the pain you are trying to heal from and it makes you very vulnerable.

Divorce Shlag if you want, but take super good care of YOU. Girlfriends, parties, massages, pedicures, whatever.

You dont need to rush into dating to show Shlag youre serious. Just tell him you are serious.

I'm here. Yes, we have filed and the divorce should be final in May. I have joined a dating site for many reasons. I DO want to date...not sure how soon or what will happen. I can choose to date my STBXH also if I wish, but right now I don't want to do that. I don't want to recover my marriage. I'm just trying to focus on me and having fun, being with friends, and doing my own thing...if that involves chatting with some guys that are interesting and that I might want to have coffee with then I think that is fine.

I'm still in a horrific amount of pain even though it doesn't show from the outside very often. I'm going through some crazy denial I think because when the thoughts of him with other women enter my head, I unintentionally push them out so I don't die from the pain. A part of me is happier though since I'm not constantly dealing with the worry that he has had an affair or trying to see if I could trust him, or picking up our marriage over and over again from fights we would have. I just hung in there far too long and I'm quite happy to be out of the terribleness (is that a word? haha) of it all. Life is much less stressful in that regard and it's nice to not have to worry about everything I was going through. Looking back- it was much more unhealthy than I let myself realize. Friends and family voiced their concerns often and I never knew if/when it was going to be bad enough to just get out. NOW I do and one of the first things I said to my best friend on D-DAY was "Well, at least there isn't any gray area any more." I know this is the right decision.

It does get better. Denial, anger, bargaining. Get used to all the stages of grief. You will go through them all. But you will come out the other side,promise.



Yes. You were betrayed.



Yes, me too! It is a relief, kind of like reaching the shore after a ship wreck.



Divorce is your right. Happiness is your right.

Now I'm going to be a pain though ok?

I am a betrayed spouse. I was left for the other woman. I was left in a swirling vortex of pain. You would have thought that I could not even have considered dating right? Wrong. I checked out a few dating sites. I did a bit of RL flirting.

Fine, right? Certainly no one in my family or circle would object.

The problem was, I quickly realised I ha no judgement. I realised that any guy I met would seem much more wonderful than he really was. Why? Because compared to the last cheater, to the horror of surviving an A, EVERYONE seems fun and great. Its the comparison effect.

Just some food for thought. May is not very far away. Why not get some needs met from family and friends? Guys can wait until the 'horrific amount of pain' fades, surely?

Take care though. I mean plan lots of care for you! Daily x

You're in no mental condition to date, Amy, quite apart from the fact that you're still married. You are not in a position to make good judgements about which men to date. Also, you are not recovered from your betrayal and so are not in any position to be a good partner for a new man.

You are not being fair to yourself and you are not being fair to new men. You are also setting a horrible example to your children, causing them harm in addition to what they are going through from the breakdown of their family.

I think you know that this is the wrong thing to do, but it makes you feel better temporarily. You need to stop.

Amy, it saddens me for your children that you have decided to also become a wayward when there father has made that choice for them.

I am totally against you dating. It is WRONG to date while married. It is ADULTERY. What kind of lessons are you teaching you children?

I am OUTRAGED that you would come on a MARRIAGE BUILDERS website and talked so casually about "dating" while you are still married. It is extremely offensive and already WAYWARD.

Dating before the divorce is FINAL is adultery, Amy.

I think if you were really doing that just for you, you would not be rubbing it in Schlag's face. Knock it off. Stop doing it, stop talking to HIM about it, you are going to get yourself in a worse mess just trying to prove something to Schlag.

Go heal, with good friends, not the predators you are likely to meet if you begin dating while still married.