None of what you did is a LB.

It's all normal and her reaction is typical.

You have a right to snoop. Your life is put in danger through her infidelity. Do you get that? What STD has she exposed you to?

Don't apologize for anything. Simply keep repeating, "I will do what is necessary to save this marriage."

I'd also let her know that if she moves out that you will file papers for abandonment and will request child support and alimony.

Don't be afraid of her. Attack the affair and attack the waywardness.

I think if I had to put money on it, the A is in some weird dormant stage. That they have taken a break from the day to day correspondence to get to a place in their lives at some point where they would be able to invest more in their relationship. I know they will never get to a point where they will both be able to make it work but I don't think WW has truly dropped OM. From my snooping, I have found evidence that supports the NC and that she feels sorry that they were unable to work things out. That she still cares for him but he needs to find his own path. I am almost more afraid of the next OM that will enter once WW has this new freedom. Right now, WW has made it clear she wants nothing to do with me. I have pointed out that she did say "right now" and that people's perspectives change once conditions change and time has passed.

I listen to the MB radio program daily now and Dr. H mentioned a couple of times this weeek something along the lines that he doesn't believe that all marriages should be saved. That if there is a situation where one spouse does not want to try to fix things then there is no real way to restore the M. I am wondering more and more if that might be what I am facing. No matter what I do or how I feel, I am doomed to fail if WW wants no part of being married to me. I guess I am just down at the news that WW has found an apartment.

One of the big things that WW has been complaining about are boundaries. She feels her personal boundaries have been constantly broken by me and other family members. She feels like she has lost her personal identity somehow and that is the source of her need to get her own space and her need for privacy. Everytime I have stepped over her personal boundaries by snooping or exposing, I think she feels like that is one more example for WW. I did bring up the point that it was her lack of personal boundaries that let this OM into her life.

I can't tell you how many times I have told WW in the last few weeks that the reason I am doing what I am doing (exposing, snooping) is because it is what's best for our marriage and our family. WW does not get it. At all. I am thinking she won't understand until the fog has lifted.

It's time for some serious hardball. Don't ask if you can date her after she leaves! You need to start making plans to go into plan b when she leaves. Get your legal house in order.

You have a very brazen, entitled WW who is only saying she might date you after she moves to keep your hopes up and keep you compliant. The affair has gone underground and she wants to set up a love nest for herself and whoever.

More stick, less carrot. Paint a very ugly picture of divorce and stop feeling bad about checking up on her. The woman strikes me as someone who is very used to getting her way. You can stop playing that game now.

Protect your money and your kids. Get the lawyer going and prepare. She needs a shock. WW's like yours get a shock when their loving and compliant husbands start to look more like James Bond. You need to stop looking for a glimmer of hope from her because she's not going to give it. One you start to close the door on HER, she might turn...might.

Either she did this for show or she is moving out in order to pursue her affair. They were just in contact weekend before last and I suspect the OM knows his wife is looking so this was said for show. Your wife may have a secret second cell phone in her car which would explain why she is so scared to have you search.


You should let her know that you have a boundary against her secrecy and her affair. You won't hide her affair and you will not abdicate your right, as her husband, to know everything she does. Let her know YOUR boundaries and that you won't honor HER boundaries because they are all based on her desire to deceive you. As long as she is untrustworthy, you will snoop. Tell her to TRUST that!

She feels this way because she is hiding something. She wants the right to the privacy to destroy you behind your back. That is like the bank robber telling the cops he "has boundaries" and they shouldn't be snooping on him.

You did not "step over her personal boundaries" by snooping and exposing. She has no right to any such boundary. You should NEVER respect any such "boundary." You have a RIGHT to know everything she does and says and if she has an affair, then that news should be spread wide and far.

Exactly. And this is why you don't even TRY to reason with a fogged out wayward. It is unrealistic to imagine she will get it.

SS, I lived through this. WXW told me that she felt we'd be back together someday after having time apart to "heal."

Healing for her, aparently, involved dating and screwing other men while I sat by and waited to see if she'd come back.

This is nothing more than wayward speak for "I want to be free to screw around. I'll tell you whatever you need to hear in order to get what I want and have you not make it hard on me."

This is where you have to wield the big Plan B stick and file papers for abandonment and child and spousal support.

I think that everything you say is a real likely to be what I am facing. I don't think the likelihood of the WW exiting from the fog once she "gets some space" is too high.

I am readying myself mentally for plan B. I have spoken with a lawyer. I also don't see any possible exit out of the plan B where our M could survive. Right now I am feeling like a plan B is the prelude to an inevitable plan D.

SS, have you read Surviving an Affair?

Yes. Much of it multiple times. I have it right here next to me.

ok, good. I just wanted to make sure you had read the story of Sue and Jon.

Time to hide a real time gps an a DVAR in WW car.

I am familiar with their story and I do see some similarities in that story and mine. However, I am becoming less and less hopeful that WW and I will get to a point where she will want to try to fix things (even after a plan B). Right now, I feel like she would be overjoyed if I started a plan B today. I am going to try it either way. It is just going to be a challenge with two small kids.

I am really thinking some of the earlier posts were spot on. I do think there is a real possibility that the A has gone underground or is just in a holding pattern right now.

You are very good at describing WW. She is an only child who has always gotten what she wants.

I have my money secured and I have a plan for handling the kids. I have spoken with a lawyer. I just need to iron out the time frame for closing the Plan B door. WW will begin moving out in a few weeks it looks like. I need to figure out if I start plan B then or continue the plan A for a short period longer.

The way things look like right now, I don't really see WW turning around once she leaves. Very hard for me to imagine that type of scenario.

SS, you can do Plan B with small children, people do it all the time. However, I wouldn't worry about Plan B right now. After she moves out, her affair will crumble and get difficult just like Sue's affair in SAA. When that happens, you can be there to catch her if you feel so inclined.

The reason Dr H told Jon to go into Plan B is because he was worn down emotionally from her long term affair. You are not there yet.

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The way things look like right now, I don't really see WW turning around once she leaves. Very hard for me to imagine that type of scenario.

The others are right when they say she's moving out because the affair isn't dead. There's no conditionals in a NC letter, saying no contact unless you get your life together means "I'm waiting for you to divorce your wife like you said you would." She's moving out and sending a message to OM saying the ball's in your court now. But you'd be surprised how many WW actually leave and then find out that OM had absolutely no intention of ever leaving his family. After exposure that is the second thing that usually kills an affair, when the WW realizes they've been played and fell for it because they disengaged their brain for too long. As the fog starts to lift a little they begin to feel humiliated and used and the big light bulb moment is when they realize the guy that really cares for them has been there all along, steadfastly standing by trying to save the marriage despite an almsot steady diet of scorn, contempt and disrespect. They realize what real strength is and real commitment, and that they almost threw it away because they weren't "happy".

So be strong SS, continue on the course you've set. I think there still is a chance, even if you do have to go to Plan B, for you to still pull it back from the precipice. You go dark and shortly after she gets dumped, and things will come to a rapid denouement. Stay resolute, all is not lost yet.

You say you've contacted a lawyer, have you updated your attorney with the fact that your wife has definite plans to leave and has leased a place? Time to make sure she can't just walk out with your kids.

BTW, you didn't LB your wife by snooping on her, and I think you have it backwards when you say you need to earn back your wife's trust, after all it wasn't you that cheated, right? And why does she expect you to respect "personal boundaries" when she has shown that she can't be trusted? "personal boundaries" = ways to hide my affair

I know I can pull off a plan B with kids, it just adds another level of logistical complexity to things.

ML, you have been right about so many things in my situation so far. I so hope you are right about this too. I feel like I need to let some of the dust settle with things before I begin a plan B. WW has the apt. and as of today has a start date for work. One of the things I am not going to hesitate on doing is passing on all bills for expenses that I have been picking up since WW left work when our oldest was born.

I do admit, I am noticing my feelings toward WW changing through this. I guess the LB withdrawals she is making are adding up. I do still have perspective and want to save our marriage and our family from all of this.

Thank you for your words. This has been a tough couple of days for me and that really helps. I hope you are right about how things look like they may play out. I think you nailed it. I think WW is sending OM a signal: If you want me, you need to make some moves on your side (D his wife, move across country, quit his career,...).

I know things are not definite either way and I keep telling myself to hope for a good outcome but expect nothing.

I spoke to the lawyer about WW moving out to an apt. and how that would work. The lawyer explained that because the apt. was not in the immediate area of our current residence (20 miles away) it gets the visitation part of things a bit more tricky. In the state I am in, like most states, they try to push for 50/50 visitation. With the two parents 20 miles apart 50/50 visitation would probably not be in the best interest of the kids. Too much back and forth transit time. As much as I hate to say this, I feel that WW looks at the kids as getting in the way of her "escape". She really seems to want to be severing all ties with her former life. Including the kids. She has said that she wants to do her part as a parent but I also know she is really looking forward to getting away from them too. I don't know if part of all of this is some atomic over-reaction to cabin fever. Being "shackled" to two needy kids all day, every day, with no escape to the real world???

I know the personal boundaries lecture was a total spin move by WW but she did a really good job at making me feel like I had totally screwed that one up. The more I thought of it, the more I realized that her A was the biggest way she could have disrespected and broken our personal boundaries.

Since the weekend is upon us and it's a little slower and you may have time to read...there's a old poster's story that MAY be interesting to you. His wayward wife moved out...as I recall he stayed in Plan A a short while under out guidance then went into Plan B. In Plan B he recouped his strength and with the guidance and encouragement of Steve Harley he saw an opening and perhaps weakness in his WW's resolve to divorce him so he went BACK to Plan A. I won't tell you the ending to his story but I think it might parallel yours.

His posting name is/was (he hasn't stopped by in a long time):

mywifeilove

Here's where it began: mywifeilove's first thread

*note: the links in his signature line don't work anymore. As I recall he had 3 major threads. If you click his name and then "View Posts" you can then click a button in the upper right hand corner "Topics Created" to see any and all thread's mywifeilove started. It's easier to just look at HIS threads than going through all 800+ posts of his.

*If you do get into the story his picture is likely still on the MB photo thread (which links to Faith's MB photobucket account).

Mr. Wondering

I am glad you recognized that. It is easy to be gaslighted by a manipulative WW when you are under fire like this. That is why it is helpful to post this stuff here so we can bring you back to reality and retrain your perspective. WS' live in the land of OZ and it is tough not to go there.