Agree. Very important point. Not negotiable. I often steal from this post of Dr Harley's over on the private forum because it so beautfully summarizes his position on EPs:

The only negotiation/alteration I see as applicable for EPs is whatever Amy says is necessary for her to feel safe, and whatever is unneccessary because it doesn't help her feel safe.

Last night was a happy night for me because Amy told me that I am once again allowed to tell her that I love her.

But today we will be going to the courthouse to file the dissolution papers. Which I have mixed feelings about. I understand the need for consequences for my actions and her wish to end this marriage as we know it. I agree that a fresh start is necessary and I have the greatest hope and faith that I will win her heart back some day. But it's hard to actually go do it. The uncertainty of whether she will ever want me again weighs heavily on my heart and mind. The danger of her falling in love with someone else is there.

She watched my time lapse videos last night from during her trip. Every minute a well-behaved husband.

Please read wulfpack girls thread over in recovery.

Let me ask you - when was the last time you accomplished something great? Was it that time in high school that kept you attached to OW?

What do you know about perseverance? Read Scotland, Holyheart, Mimi_here, and all by Mortarman if you want to understand perseverance.

You have to go into this journey with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPECTATIONS. You have to do everyting without expecting anything in return. You may be divorced or you may be married.

Perseverance, Committment, and Patience. From what I have read you have failed at all of these. Now is your time - will you succeed?

What is your definition of success? How bad do you want this? How bad do you want your family?

Then get to work, expect nothing, and be the best you can be right now, at this minute. Don't think of failure, only think about how you will persevere through this.

Amy doesn't care about EPs.

The dissolution was filed on the 22nd and she felt great about it.

She is filled with hate for me.

She joined a dating website today and is taking great pleasure in telling me about it.

All I can do is pray that when I'm still here fighting for her in 6 months, she will believe that I am committed to doing whatever it takes to be the husband I always should have been but rarely was. She probably won't care anyway.

I was such an a-hole.

I don't deserve her and I never did.

Schlag, I want to help you any way I can. Your post shows this is a pretty dire situation, but it's short on any particulars. What is your plan at this point for the fight you are planning on for the next six months? What specific things do you plan to do?

Okay, so Schlag-as-he-was needs to die. He's hated. You need to become Schlag-who-will-be. A person worth being with.

And to do that, you need to start getting very specific about what you are going to change about your life. Whether or not Amy ever cares about it.

What does Schlag-who-will-be do?

Over the long weekend Amy read a "vomit letter" that was written about 2 months ago for our marriage counselor. It was angry and brutal and it hurt her very much to read. I blamed her for our marriage issues and talked about how I was miserable and only staying with her for the kids. It was so warped and awful that when I went back and read it again I couldn't believe I had written it. She is such an incredible woman to have stayed with me for 12 years of me treating her like that. And now she feels very angry that she wasted those 12 years. She is looking forward to finding someone that will treat her right. And she will, I'm sure.

The old Schlag would run away and drown his sorrows in some distructive activity, feel sorry for himself and blame her for everything.

But the new Schlag will stay here and perservere no matter how hard it gets. and it will get hard. She will see to it. I will serve her no matter how cruel she is to me. I will own my decisions without blaming anyone but myself. I will seek spiritual comfort and support from my recovery group to not feel sorry for myself. I will get physically healthy in order to be the best Dad I can be and to feel good about myself. I will meet her emotional needs in any way she will let me. I will use my time with our counselor to better myself and address my personal issues that made me so selfish that I would hurt her so badly.

Stop the Self Pity.

Pull Yourself together and fight like a man. Yes she is angry, and yes she wants you to hurt.

What are you going to do to ease her hurt? You know her well, how can you help her?

Can you get her a spa treatment?
Can you babysit while she Christmas shops?
Can you offer her a family day at Chuck E Cheese?
Can you offer her a family picnic?

What can you do today to ease her pain?

Also - you may want to read sights that have very nasty waywards and how they treat their BS's, so you can understand the pain. Read the pain, understand the pain, feel the pain!!!

Plan A like a rock star - try and meet her needs without any expectations. How bad do you want this? It is at your fingertips - will you survive?

Take the pain and work it - heal her as well as you can.

Doing what?


Okay, I took that disrespectful judgment / whining out for you.

Now: you will serve her, how? Doing what?


This is for you. What will you do for her?


You're not serious, sir. You've just described a perfect plan to WASTE SIX MONTHS.

I agree just stop being selfish today. Don't waste the time with counseling - just stop today.

Everyday wake up and

1) What can I do to heal Amy today?
2) What can I do to heal Amy today?
3) What can I do to heal Amy today?

It will take a long time to process all the pain for Amy, all you can do is tell her you will take whatever she dishes out and that you hope one day she will forgive you and be willing to work with you and have a great marriage this time......
Hang in there, if she sees you differently and acting differently and you stay put through out it all she will eventually notice the changes in you .......

Well, I didn't talk about all the little things I'm doing. Like saturday after we were up till 4 am talking I got up with the kids at 8 or so and let her sleep till 11-something then took them again while she went to lunch with her divorcing friend from 12:30 to 3:30. I also did all the laundry, cleaned the kids' rooms, vacuumed the upstairs, and steam-cleaned a bunch of built-up spots in the upstairs. The next day after we were up again till 3 something am I got up with the kids and let her sleep for over an hour extra till she had to get up for church. I am doing all the dishes, when I am home I do the cooking, I have done most of the grocery shopping since D-day, I clean up the house after the kids go to bed. I do all the 3 older kids' baths/showers but that's nothing new. I've done that since before the baby was born. I make the kids' lunches before I leave for work in the morning.

I'm doing everything I can to make her life easier. It's the only way to meet her needs that she will let me. I can't touch her obviously. She won't let me tell her that I love her. She doesn't want flowers or love notes or anything like that, though I do leave her a note every morning anyway.

I'm not sure what sites would have nasty waywards on them but that would not be a good idea to join one. Plus it's probably going to be a site against my EPs. Unless you have a recommendation that wouldn't be dangerous for me to view.

My biggest problem is that what she says she needs from me to heal are the details from the affair that I'm not able to remember. It's maddening. I wish I could lay it out on a plate and serve it up for her but it takes her digging and asking me things in different ways to jog memories. I know it shouldn't be like that but my memory is just so terrible. It's doing a lot of damage over time because I'm trickling her not because I'm trying to but because my memory is so bad. She says it's screwing me and I believe that. It's so bad that she is considering asking the Skank for details despite the likelihood of getting painful or untruthful responses and unlikelihood of getting anything useful.



Yes, thank you. The problem is I only have 6 months and she has seen me behave for 6 months before. But yes there are changes that she is noticing, especially the running and the weight loss that I was never able to accomplish before. I've lost 45+ pounds in 8 weeks of couch-to-5K.

Yes I am trying to stop being selfish. I have always been giving with domestic and parenting duties but horribly selfish emotionally. That is the difficult thing to change. It's still giving me problems.

As far as the counseling, it is very helpful. Amy would tell you that this counselor we found is amazing. She sees right through my BS and cuts straight to the core. She gets through to me very well. Amy and I do one joint session a week and I do 1 or 2 individual sessions. It definitely helps.

Yes, I know.

Yes, I know.

I tell her that I hope her day is better than the last... or that I miss her. Today I told her that the man she fell in love with is still in here and she will recognize him again someday.


Yes, I will. I probably don't have years but that is out of my control. But I'm not being consistent in my honor and integrity for her - I'm being consistent in my honor and integrity because that's the person I want to be, whether I'm with her or not.

EGG ZAK LEE

I'm seeing progress here.

CV

First of all, thank you for responding.


Mr Pep would write me similar notes early in our process.
He'd say:

"I see things with new eyes." .... and my first knee jerk response was:
"I see things with new eyes too. I want to smack you."

I am NOT saying you wrote anything wrong/bad/offensive.

I'm just letting you know you might not get a favorable response for a looooong time.

Hang in there.
Even if the divorce goes ahead (likely) keep on growing and improving.

I know the divorce will go ahead, that's a given.

I was just hoping for a sliver of a chance.

She has recently found out that after her first pregnancy I developed a sexual attraction to pregnancy. I told her that when she was pregnant and of course she asked me if it was ALL pregnant women or just her. I lied and told her it was just her. I think pregnancy on an already attractive woman makes that woman more attractive.

I also considered hiring a pregnant escort once 5 years ago but never went through with it. I did own two DVDs of pregnant porn from 5 yrs ago to 2 years ago.

I understand that hiring escorts or supporting the porn industry is terrible and destructive to the people that are involved, and it's especially bad when it's a woman who is pregnant. I am ashamed of what I did.

When she found out she said I was sick and disturbed and now she is considering kicking me out and taking my kids away from me because she isn't sure they are safe with me.

I would never hurt my kids and I've always been a great dad. This has me extremely anxious and disturbed and she looks at me with the blackest of hatred and utter contempt and disgust now.

Is this something she found out about after the poly?