A book title comes to mind, "He's Just Not That Into You".

Seriously, I will never understand the incessant desire to "work" on a relationship.

If it is good, then it is effortless and doesn't feel like work. It just flows. It flows because both parties accomodate each other's needs.

But if you sit there and expend tons of mental energy trying to figure out why he won't call, then he's not worth the effort and neither is the relationship.

But my biggest question to you is this: Why put your son through the back and forth drama? Why not focus on HIM and not on some guy you're dating?

I say this as a man who made his current wife wait 7 months before ever introducing the kids to her.

I don't want drama in their lives.

I suggest you make your 9 year old your priority and quit worrying about a boyfriend who doesn't care about you. Your son will be out of the house in 9 short years.

A good man will accomodate you and your son and respect both.

Thanks to all of you, you guys really give me lot of comfort and courage.

I came down with a cold, probably from lack of sleep as I entertained guests every day for five days of last week. It was a lot of fun, a great way to keep myself busy and distract myself from relationship thoughts, but I guess I did too much

I hope all of you had a very nice Thanksgiving!

Guests every day for five days?! You're a goddess. I'd say saint, but saints don't have super powers.

You are so funny GG. No, no goddess or saint, just a stubborn lady who is determined to keep our house not empty for my son and myself Though, yes, I definitely don't have any super power, my throat was killing me all of this time when I was pretending everything was okay!!

Pepperband mentioned "auditioning" for marriage.

Your situation is like you are director who wants to put on musicals. Your boyfriend is an actor who doesn't sing or dance.
Plays are great. Musicals are great. But you end up putting on plays so that your BF is happy instead of the musicals you really want. He is not a bad person. You are not a bad person. But what he wants and what you want are just different so why try to keep making the other person fit?

Thanks wannabophim. It's been a while. I wanted to post, but writing sometimes makes me think of my situation more and I have been staying away from the board.

My mom was in town so that helped ease the pain, but still, it was the first Christmas in a long time that my xBF wasn't around. Yet, he called and wanted to stop by to drop off presents for my son, and (yeah, you guys would have told me NOT to) he came over on Friday and had dinner with us. He took my son out to the park and played with him - my son wanted me to join, but I said no, as I had to cook (which was half true but mostly I didn't think I should create a fake family-like moment). He bought tickets to a Globetrotter's game/show and asked if he could take my son out this coming Friday. This was a while ago. I know, I should have 'no contact' in place, but it's so hard...., I said yes, but purposely asked him to go to the 2pm show instead of 7pm he was originally thinking. My thinking was that if he chose 7pm, somehow I would feel more lonely and also my son may feel more 'special' about this event, but if it's during the day, since I would be working anyway, my son would have to go to a childcare and he would prefer going to see the game. Anyway, he bought 3 tickets and said that my son can invite someone; it would be more fun for him. Of course my son asked if I could go with them, but I told him no. I invited my son's best friend so that two boys can have fun. But deep down it's making hard for me because I am feeling like I could have gone....

I read a part of the interview of Demi Moore. She said her biggest fear is that she feels 'not worth to be loved'. She is beautiful and powerful and successful. But this is her fear. Because she was betrayed by both of her husbands.

I can totally relate to that. My X-husband betrayed me multiple times, and it left a huge scar. So even though I remember being affectionate and loving towards my x-BF, and he was very much attracted to me, the fact he could not committ makes me feel that I am 'not worth' being loved. They can say all the compliments in the world to me, that I am a nice person, beautiful, gorgeous, sexy, a great mother, smart, successful, great cook, athletic, etc., etc. In the end, my marriage failed and my boyfriend did not want to marry me.

It is not a good place to be. It hurts tremendously, and I honestly do not know what to do about it. Because as I say, it really does not matter how other people say great things about me, the fact is that I am not successful in the relationship arena. Maybe God is telling me I am not suited for marriage.

Does anyone feel this way too?

I don't think God is trying to tell you that. Perhaps it's the self esteem issue getting in the way? If, inside, you don't feel worthy of being loved, your partner senses it and subconsciously agrees. At the very minimum, confidence is very appealing to others, and beating yourself up is sort of the opposite of that. 'Knowing' you're not worthy of being loved is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, it seems.

BTW, if you figure out a great solution to those feelings, please share it. A lot of us could use the help, too.

FOTL, I understand what you mean. Strangely, when I just met someone, b/c I am not into him yet, usually I am not needy and priorities my personal life including going out with my girlfriends, attending work functions, etc., he would pursue me so hard. And when we establish a relationship, I become dependent on him emotionally, I would cancel my outings with my girlfriends, etc., and I am sure he senses that and i start to feel distance and then I cling more, which prob pushes him away more. It's a vicious cycle. Then I get complaints like those from my XH and XBF that I did not care about them, I provide much love to my son...., so I tried more to pay attention and show affection, which somehow never really worked. It seems very contradictory.

Also, I wonder if I have been depressed. I noticed I have been very irritable and yell at my dear son a lot. I really want to know what it is that God is trying to teach me or provide. I have been in this hurtful journey for a long time and I still do not feel He will rescue me any time soon.

Self esteem. Ah yes. Mine when it comes to relationships, it went very low and is staying low for quite some time. I used to think as long as I have many friends who truly love me and think I am a great friend to them, and also guys find me attractive and wonderful, then I can get the self esteem back...., so wrong. Because romantic relationships are different. But I wonder why I can have so many terrific friendships when I tend to fail on romantic ones with guys.

When I figure that out, I may get a step closer to the solution...hopefully.

Milkshake, Look within to develop your esteem instead of looking outside of yourself and you will develop it. It'd be good to have a break from trying to find a relationship and concentrate on being present and happy in the moment. Yelling at your son could be a symptom of your unhappiness. If you are feeling depressed, see a doctor and get some recommendations on how to best deal with it. You've been through a lot, it will take some time for the inner healing...

KC, you always have a very strong insight. That's a great point. I need to build my esteem within instead of looking for outside validation. But I don't know how.

I have always been 'validated' by good grades and report cards when I was in school. Neighbors, teachers and my friends always 'validated' that I was good. I felt I 'accomplished' my goals by winning whatever sports I was playing and winning awards on my art. I have been 'validated' by getting promotions at work and getting calls from headhunters for bigger positions.

If none of the above happened, I am sure I would be feeling worthless, which I KNOW wrong and not true. Because we are all supposed to be loved, treasured, and appreciated. But that's just in my head. My heart would not agree if I don't get any outside validation.

The same goes for relationships. The more guys pursue me and beg to go out or to have relationships with me or to want to marry me, the greater I felt my 'value' was, again, even though my head knows that is an unhealthy thinking. Thus, the complete opposite is true too. If those 'validations' withdraw, I feel my value declined.

I thought I was lacking the spiritual side, and participated on weekly Bible study sessions, read a lot of books, meditated, etc., but then I see 'injustice' in life where those selfish, irresponsible and dishonest people who hurt others in order to pursue their own selfish pleasure get everything they want. Those who got hurt and betrayed have an extremely hard time getting back on their feet and life is never the same for them, and of course, they do NOT get everything they wish for. So I felt hopeless even spiritually.

I am glad I have a great career, hobby, and my son that allow me to forget all of the dark thoughts even just for a moment each day. I am very thankful that I am healthy. It's just that feeling great about yourself and your future seems very difficult WITHOUT outside validation (which I think I am using as a 'judge') and WITHOUT justice (God is being judge here).

Did you develop esteem within WITHOUT outside validation? How did you do that?

Oh Milkshake, my heart goes out to you! I totally understand. In our society, we have learned to rely on outside validation, but it is SO IMPORTANT to know what we know is true and do what we do FOR OURSELVES.

I grew up in a home with an alcoholic father and a certifiably nuts mother that was very abusive. I didn't get anything I needed from my parents. It took me well into my adulthood to learn and change my perceptions and act accordingly...most of my learning and development has come in my 50s, incidentally, those have been the "hardship years" of my life.

My son is one of those people who was just born wonderful. He was as perfect a child as anyone could hope for. He got straight A's in school, graduated valdictorian of his class, served in the Air Force, Staff Sargent Elect when he discharged. He's built a house, worked as a mechanic, was a Windmill company supervisor, and is currently enrolled in college with a double major in Computer/Science Engineering and Mechanical Engineering, straight A's and in Honors College. He's half way done and has done so debt free. He has saved himself for the girl of his dreams and waited for God to send the right person into his life and is now engaged to a wonderful girl that is very well suited with him. When he was a teenager, however, I remember him placing great pressure and stress on himself. Nothing he did seemed to be perfect enough to suit him. He was small and when he went out for football, many of the guys on the opposing teams were twice his size. I used to tell him we all bring our assets to the table, and without him tutoring his fellow team members, many of them wouldn't be there to make their touchdowns. He was a member of the team and very much needed with his reliability and wisdom. Backing up a bit, I remember his dad placing pressure on him to join football. After a year he elected to not participate the next year. When he was considering whether to go back to it the following year, I told him, "Paul, if you do this, you must do this for yourself. Not for your father, not for me, but for YOU!" I told him the same thing with regards to his schooling. I never paid my kids to get A's, I told them their learning was for THEM! It's taken him years, but my son has finally got it. He still wants A's, he still wants to achieve the honors, although he never wanted his awards flouted, but he realizes that the better he does, the better it will pay off for him in life and he wants to achieve his best FOR HIM.

I have been through some really hard things in life, esp. in the last 12 years. There were times it was hard to get up and face the world but I had to do so. Yet it was those really tough years where I had to learn to stand alone that really made a difference in my life. I hadn't realized it, but I had placed great importance on what others thought...and once that validation was removed, it was tough, I can't tell you how tough, but maybe it was the best thing that ever happened to me. When my kids' dad and I divorced after 23 years of marriage...we'd always been extremely involved in our church, and their support was quickly withdrawn and people who had always esteemed me, suddenly withdrew their support and I began receiving a deluge of hate mail and nasty phone calls. I got to where I hibernated, only coming out of my house to go to work, and even the stress I received there was hard to bear. My now XH took custody of the church and friends and I was alone. People I had worked with on every imaginable board and committee now cut me off. It was amazing. One day my son said, "Mom, don't you think it's about time you found another church?" and so the next Sunday I showed up at my new church. I can't say as I've ever gotten as close or as involved in my current church, the pain and scars of what transpired in my old one still affect me and make me much more cautious. But with all the whispering of a small town, I've had to learn to hold my head up and be true to myself. I determined I would not let "them" change who I was. I would continue to smile at them, continue to be myself, continue to believe in myself. I remember placing a sign above my office desk during this period that said "It's not who people believe you to be but who you ARE that is important." I glanced at it often. I have been hurt a lot in my life. If I believed that who I was was a summation of my failed relationships, I would be in deep trouble. I choose to take with me the lessons learned from each relationship, each job, each situation, regardless of the outcome of each.

There are little things you can do that can help you in this process. Tell yourself positive affirmations. Sit down and think of some and make a list, refer to it often. (I am a caring person. I try my best. I am honest. etc.) Try to make it about who you are rather than about looks or even intelligence which are something you had nothing to do with but are merely God's bestowing on you. I used to tell my son (he's a genius) that it's his character that impresses me, even more than his intelligence. I also taught him that God's blessing him with high intelligence was something He entrusted to him, and with it comes a high degree of responsibility, to give back to society with it, rather than laud it over others or think highly of himself because of it. With much blessing should come equal humility.

Another thing you can do is start by treating yourself with value and respect and caring. Treat yourself to a bubblebath, a special homemade breakfast, that concert you've been wanting to attend, even if you are alone...for you alone are worth it! We don't need someone else in our life to enjoy things with, someone else is just an added dimension, but not necessary for enjoying what is. I have had to learn this since I lost my late husband 6 1/2 years ago. I am no longer part of a couple, I am me, I have had to learn to value me as such. I don't need a man's eyes' appreciative glance to tell me if I look good. I can look in the mirror myself. I don't need a boss (who may be an idiot) to recognize my achievements...I need to do my best on my job and pat myself on the back and KNOW what a great job I've done to save the day, whether anyone else sees or recognizes it or not! We aren't always going to get recognition from outside sources. Sometimes we're a wonderful wife and our spouse leaves us. Sometimes we're a superb employee and our job is cut. Sometimes we're financially responsible and we lose our home. Sometimes we're a great parent our our child doesn't come around. Sometimes we're a great friend and our friend moves away. Life is not always fair. Deservedness doesn't always depict great outcome. Call it luck or call it divine providence, whatever your belief, it can seem rather random. Sometimes, though, just sometimes it might be that we are picked for hard places because Someone wants a greater dimension for us that comes from those experiences. And sometimes walking through those hard places is so hard, so painful, but we discover there are silver linings to clouds. And all of that is what makes us who we are.

Practice going to a movie alone. Practice going to a great restaurant alone. Put on some classical music and set a candlelight dinner and tablecloth just for you! Have a bubblebath, paint your nails, watch a great movie, take time to read the paper or a good book, take a drive in the country, buy yourself some roses. YOU are worth it and you don't need anyone else to tell you so!

I read the title, "1st Long Term Relationship After Divorce Went Sour", and my first thought?

Your first LTR after divorce is SUPPOSED to go sour. You sure as heck don't want to marry the first one.

Consider yourself a bullet-dodger.

Thanks KC for your kind and warm words. You have gone through a lot, and I know that is why you understand others' pain, which is a tremendous quality. I know there is always some 'good' that can also come out of sad/unhappy/upsetting events. Your son sounds wonderful. When I was reading your post, the first thing I thought was that "God gave this wonderful son to KC!"

I can't go see a movie or go to a fancy restaurant alone, I have never done so in my entire life! But that's an interesting suggestion... Actually I was planning on a nice & fancy vacation with my son, and my friends' family decided to join us. I know, if i continue to try, I can have fun without 'my man'.....

Krazy, you are too funny, your comment about me being a bullet-dodger made me laugh Thanks for lightening things up.

Sure you can, just do it! It may feel out of your comfort zone at first, but that's how we broaden our comfort zones. Bring a newspaper or people watch or just concentrate on the atmosphere and how wonderful the food is. When my husband passed away, I had a hard time going to church by myself, but I did it and now I'm used to it.

will give it a try! Hope you are having a good day KC.

I was supposed to clean out my bookshelves for my impending move...but the first good book I came to I sat down and started reading it.

LOL, well at least you got another use out of it! I am going to do some serious cleaning myself, but here I am, checking in on the MB site...

I took bubble bath over the weekend per KC's suggestion, which was wonderful, got together with my girlfriends, and did watch lots of movies by myself (no, I didn't go to the theater but I have Netflix at home)! Yay for me. So far, so good.

Then I went out with a guy for dinner. He is one of the guys whom I met several times two months ago. I did not feel the chemistry, even though he is wonderful - he is very sweet, generous, would never yell like my XH and X-boyfriend, is a great father, hyper smart and successful, appreciates me for who I am - so I had told him I would not be interested in meeting him again. He but thought about it and asked if we can still communicate to build a friendship with no pressure. I said I wasn't sure if it would work but we could try. He has not put any pressure since then, he has not asked to meet up for two months, yet emailed me every day to talk about work, world, kids, anything. He had called me several times but at that time I did not even want to resume phone conversations then he left me alone. Finally I got a bit more comfortable so I suggested we could meet this time.

He is a very nice guy, a world traveller (I love that because I have diverse background too), extremely mild temper, and is spiritual too. I am just not physically attracted to him unfortunately. But I have always been attracted to 'unavailable' type - whether emotionally or psychologically. These men are good looking but love themselves more than anyone else - so I decided that I would focus on his personality and intelligence this time. This is why I need to take a baby step, to see if we can just be friends first, if we can share laughter (which we do), build trust, etc. first. This was totally unexpected, but before we left he said he loved me. He said that I AM the quality woman he has been looking for and had mentioned even a 'family'.

I was flattered and WAS happy to hear it, because it shows his genuine interest in me, not just my look or financial positions (it may sound bizarre but some guys like successful women b/c of the financial benefits that come with it) but the whole package. At the same time I wonder why - my xBF could NOT say this 'L' words in 5 YEARS!!!

I know this goes back to the discussion of 'outside validation', but I have to wonder why..., everyone says the same thing about me, whether men or women, pretty much they know what I bring to the table as a person, as a friend, as a neighbor, as a mother, and as a woman/girlfriend. It's not like my X-BF sees something they do not see or vice versa. Yet he could not love me because I am not a golfer. Because my interests are different. �Love� then all of the sudden sounds very cheap and practical. Is that what it is? I am doing good most of the time, but I still have moments from time to time where I miss my X-BF. And it is sad to think that guys I am not interested in appreciate me but the guy I spent so much time together chooses NOT to.

OK, enough self-pity, time for me to go to my dance lessons!!!

Have you read the article here about how to choose a compatible mate? I love it.