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Yesterday was our 16th. I bought her nice �78 flowers w/champs&chocs, Aquamarine bracelet (for 16) and �200 spa pamper voucher. She was upset at the flowers - not sure she knows the other have arrived or if she knows they were from me.
She says that she is cutting costs trying to plan for a difficult financial future (what is she planning??? This sounds very ominous and scares me) and she feels her efforts are undone when she gets it back in the post as flowers she doesn't like.
...What can I do for her to rebuild confidence whilst continuing to work on me? SH, the only way to bring her back to your marriage is to try and meet her emotional needs. (I think you'll find the concept of "emotional needs" more useful and subtle than that of "love languages". Please read about ENs here and in the linked articles. The main problem here is that it is difficult for you to work out what her ENs are, since she won't talk to you about your relationship. What is generally true is that for a woman, the most important ENs are conversation and affection. Among the top 5, family commitment also usually features. However, for many spouses after infidelity, openness and honesty are crucial. This is bound to be true for your wife, because of your particular sexual secrecy. I don't remember whether she has discovered your use of pornography, but that and the proposition to the woman mean that you have maintained a secret second life for some time. You need to find ways of meeting the ENs of conversation, affection, FC and O&H, and probably also domestic support, to the extent that your wife will let you. I can see that she might not be interested in physical affection from you, but affection can be shown in words and acts that do not involve touching. I do want to talk to you about the flowers, and to a lesser extent the �200 voucher. I know that you were trying to think of gifts that would please your wife, but I might have some insight into why they did not do that. I love flowers and I always have fresh flowers in my house, but I would not appreciate my H buying me an expensive bouquet. I get much pleasure from a �3.99 bunch from the supermarket, and that pleasure would not be multiplied 17 times over if I received a �70 bunch. In fact, I would feel sad at the waste of money on an item that will look lovely for a few days but inevitably die. Your wife is worried about money as you are separated and maintaining two households, and she has two very young children and she isn't working outside the home. Can you see why she was annoyed at the waste of money? I don't know how she felt about the voucher, but that is something that my H HAS bought me, and I'm sorry to say that I've finally asked him nicely not to do so again. Those "pamper " places are a rip off. I've been to the Sanctuary in London - is that where yours was for? If so, you have paid about �100 just to get inside the door, and for your wife to use the swimming pool and to "relax" in the nicely painted rest areas. The whole thing annoys me, because I can go for a swim at the public pool and then relax at home for about a fiver. The rest of your �200 paid for a massage and perhaps lunch, but honestly it is not worth the money. What it IS is a way for a husband to spend a lot of money, which frankly, if you HAVE a lot of money is easy to do. It doesn't necessarily show that you have thought about what you know, from experience, your wife loves. I'm sorry; I'm not trying to trash your presents or brand you as thoughtless. What you did was very thoughtful and caring, but it did not hit the spot for your wife, and I'm trying to suggest why that might be. Your job is to find ways of meeting her actual ENs and not to do things that she OUGHT to appreciate but doesn't.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
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SH, you asked about HTML and UBB codes, I think.
There is not ned to switch codes when replying to posts. Do you see these buttons below each post?
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post
Click "quote" and the post to which you are replying appears fully quoted. Respond above or below it. Delete and passages that you don't want to include.
If you want to respond in between sentences, copy and paste [ quote] at the beginning and [/quote] at the end of the sentences.
Try it now.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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the idea of God-centered repentance (metanoia), a change of heart direction and subsequent actions I actually looked up 'metanoia' last week in relation to Judas Iscariot and the difference between remorse and repentance. She rightly accussed me at first of feeling regret I was found out, not sorrow and repentance for hurting her. Everyday when I goto bed now I plead to God for salvation , wisdom and strength. Only He truly knows exactly what she is thinking and feeling, so I continue to ask Him what to do...
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over  (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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Yesterday was our 16th. I bought her nice �78 flowers w/champs&chocs, Aquamarine bracelet (for 16) and �200 spa pamper voucher. She was upset at the flowers - not sure she knows the other have arrived or if she knows they were from me.
She says that she is cutting costs trying to plan for a difficult financial future (what is she planning??? This sounds very ominous and scares me) and she feels her efforts are undone when she gets it back in the post as flowers she doesn't like.
***EDIT*** What can I do? I am in a true bind! All accounts are shared but one (my MC, which she has a second card for), so if I am wanting to keep open and honest and non-independent in our financial decisions, how do I do things like buy flowers and gifts (her love language!) if she says no to everything?
There must be some way for me to exercise my right to do these elementary wooing acts to try and woo her properly again!
I have no real oppportunity now to meet any of her ENs because she asked me to leave, which I did for her...what can I do to "break this vicious cycle" that Dr H mentions in HNHN?
I am assuming responsibility for this and feelit is up to me to make the sacrifice to save it...I just feel there is very little left I can do?
It has already been 7 months today (separated 26/4/2011) and I am running out of ways and things to do for her to rebuild, and at the same time I am trying to work on me, but I just fell pressure to turn the boat before it's too late and she decides to file. I don't think she has any plans to find a new partner as she is totally committed to the Bs, but it doesn't mean she won't try to divorce just to break the connection from me. Hence I still feel pressure to try something towards her at the same time as working on myself...
I did speak briefly today when handing Bs back and apologised about flowers having upset her, and very clearly stated that everything I have is hers and all my money and stuff belongs to her and that I would never leave her alone financially. I am still committed to her and I intend to continue it and make it better (hence now I do not buy anything that is not a normal daily life need, e.g. food/groc.) without checking with her first, even if it only costs �5! And I intend to make it clear that she will always be top in my will should anything happen. And I intend to ensure she has full access to all of my accounts (although it's harder with more secure banking now). We actually do try and practise this and even in very recent months have both sought to establish full joint, equal access to all personal and company bank accounts for each of us (which is somewhat confusing for me if her plan is ultimately to D).
What can I do for her to rebuild confidence whilst continuing to work on me? are you guys still doping family dinners? No If I remember right, you are across the street from her, right? Yes Use those opportunities to meet her emotional needs. She is trying very hard to minimise her contact with me - only what is needed to 'hand-over' the Bs. I do not have that opportunity.Have you actually asked her if she is interested in repairing the marriage? No, I am afraid to ask for fear of her answer. And anyway, she has already made it very clear she is not interested in 'the marriage we had'...CV
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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SH, you asked about HTML and UBB codes, I think.
There is not ned to switch codes when replying to posts. Do you see these buttons below each post?
Reply Quote Quick Reply Quick Quote Notify Email Post
Click "quote" and the post to which you are replying appears fully quoted. Respond above or below it. Delete and passages that you don't want to include.
If you want to respond in between sentences, copy and paste [ quote] at the beginning and at the end of the sentences.
Try it now. Thanks, I'm getting tha hang of it now...
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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are you guys still doping family dinners? No If I remember right, you are across the street from her, right? Yes
Use those opportunities to meet her emotional needs. She is trying very hard to minimise her contact with me - only what is needed to 'hand-over' the Bs. I do not have that opportunity.Have you actually asked her if she is interested in repairing the marriage? No, I am afraid to ask for fear of her answer. And anyway, she has already made it very clear she is not interested in 'the marriage we had'...
CV [/quote] Have you told her that you don't want your old marriage back? That what you want is a new, better marriage to her? One that is based on honesty and openness, one that meets her needs and your mutually? If you are to recover your marriage, you need to present her with a qualitatively new one. one where you have strict boundaries in place around women, one where you are not putting her at risk and are meeting her needs. Tell me again what EP's you have put into place? CV
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Yesterday was our 16th. I bought her nice �78 flowers w/champs&chocs, Aquamarine bracelet (for 16) and �200 spa pamper voucher. She was upset at the flowers - not sure she knows the other have arrived or if she knows they were from me.
She says that she is cutting costs trying to plan for a difficult financial future (what is she planning??? This sounds very ominous and scares me) and she feels her efforts are undone when she gets it back in the post as flowers she doesn't like.
...What can I do for her to rebuild confidence whilst continuing to work on me? SH, the only way to bring her back to your marriage is to try and meet her emotional needs. (I think you'll find the concept of "emotional needs" more useful and subtle than that of "love languages". Please read about ENs here and in the linked articles. Tx, I did read this soon after discovering the site. I read through a lot of the articles in tears saying to myself as I read "this is describing us! Why didn't I understand this before? Why didn't I make it important? I wish I had found this before!" I am also reading through HNHN, skipping the chapters for her about me, trying to just understand what I need to do for her, and comparing that with what I already know about her.The main problem here is that it is difficult for you to work out what her ENs are, since she won't talk to you about your relationship. But it might not have occurred to you at the time that if you didn't care for each other the right way, you might lose your love for each other What is generally true is that for a woman, the most important ENs are conversation and affection. This is my main issue - these are both out, and so are gifts now. What is left? Among the top 5, family commitment also usually features. She won't even let me help in the evenings now. I used to go over after work every day and help bath, feed and put the Bs to bed. She has rationed my time with them now because she "doesn't like the long handovers." However, for many spouses after infidelity, openness and honesty are crucial Yes. This is bound to be true for your wife, because of your particular sexual secrecy. I don't remember whether she has discovered your use of pornography she knew from before our wedding, I think. At least, we spoke over the years very uncomfortabley about it being an ongoing problem, but that and the proposition to the woman mean that you have maintained a secret second life for some time. You need to find ways of meeting the ENs of conversation, affection no affection, hardly any conversation, FC and O&H ??, and probably also domestic support very little opportunity - financial, yes, and very little with boys, yes..., to the extent that your wife will let you she must see a lasting change, which will be especially hard with such little conversation and contact . I can see that she might not be interested in physical affection from you I promised have hardly even touched her since we separated. I used to put my hand on her shoulder...I don't even do that now. I fear she is upset at so many things I do or say, even the slightest..., but affection can be shown in words and acts that do not involve touching. few words I can say now...actions are just about all that is left and most of them are highly restrictedI do want to talk to you about the flowers, and to a lesser extent the �200 voucher. I know that you were trying to think of gifts that would please your wife, but I might have some insight into why they did not do that. She says I didn't listen to her and that she hasn't like those particular ones since she was a teenager I was profusely sorry.I love flowers and I always have fresh flowers in my house, but I would not appreciate my H buying me an expensive bouquet. I get much pleasure from a �3.99 bunch from the supermarket, and that pleasure would not be multiplied 17 times over if I received a �70 bunch I just don't want her to feel 'cheap'. I was trying to say "I value you, you are worth the expense". In fact, I would feel sad at the waste of money on an item that will look lovely for a few days but inevitably die. Your wife is worried about money as you are separated and maintaining two households, and she has two very young children and she isn't working outside the home. Can you see why she was annoyed at the waste of money? Yes...I don't know how she felt about the voucher, but that is something that my H HAS bought me, and I'm sorry to say that I've finally asked him nicely not to do so again. Those "pamper " places are a rip off. I've been to the Sanctuary in London - is that where yours was for? Differnet place...north of London, recommended by a friend who is a 'pamper type'If so, you have paid about �100 just to get inside the door, and for your wife to use the swimming pool and to "relax" in the nicely painted rest areas. The whole thing annoys me, because I can go for a swim at the public pool and then relax at home for about a fiver. The rest of your �200 paid for a massage and perhaps lunch, but honestly it is not worth the money. What it IS is a way for a husband to spend a lot of money, which frankly, if you HAVE a lot of money is easy to do. It doesn't necessarily show that you have thought about what you know, from experience, your wife loves Ok...slowly understanding. I'm sorry; I'm not trying to trash your presents or brand you as thoughtless. What you did was very thoughtful and caring, but it did not hit the spot for your wife, and I'm trying to suggest why that might be. Your job is to find ways of meeting her actual ENs and not to do things that she OUGHT to appreciate but doesn't Hmmm...I am listening closely..
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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are you guys still doping family dinners? No If I remember right, you are across the street from her, right? Yes
Use those opportunities to meet her emotional needs. She is trying very hard to minimise her contact with me - only what is needed to 'hand-over' the Bs. I do not have that opportunity.Have you actually asked her if she is interested in repairing the marriage? No, I am afraid to ask for fear of her answer. And anyway, she has already made it very clear she is not interested in 'the marriage we had'...
CV Have you told her that you don't want your old marriage back? That what you want is a new, better marriage to her? One that is based on honesty and openness, one that meets her needs and your mutually? In so many words, yes. I have tried to say clearly that I believe we can have a lasting romantic relationship (she is starting to get annoyed at me using the word 'marriage' now because it's not about rings or a certificate - I understand that, it's the relationship we've never had which I want)If you are to recover your marriage, you need to present her with a qualitatively new one. one where you have strict boundaries in place around women, one where you are not putting her at risk and are meeting her needs. Yes, that's what I want to do, but I've realised it's easy to keep those boundaries if you are meeting each other's needs, right?Tell me again what EP's you have put into place? EP?? CV
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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What is generally true is that for a woman, the most important ENs are conversation and affection. This is my main issue - these are both out, and so are gifts now. What is left? I didn't mean that gifts are out. I was suggesting that EXPENSIVE gifts might be out, for now. I suspect that it is more the expense that irritated your wife, than the gifts themselves. Giving little gifts is a way of showing affection, which is probably a top EN for her. It was also appropriate for you to give her a gift for your anniversary. Something like a framed photograph of you both with the kids might have worked better. I have been delighted with the runners' socks my H gave me, because I run (very slowly) around the park a couple of times per week. A CD from a band she mentioned liking in the 1980s - if she's that old! - would show that you went to a shop or to Amazon and thought of something you know she used to enjoy. Those sorts of things are not expensive, and they are very personal, catering to her interests. A generic pamper voucher - "what every woman and mother would love!" - might not be loved by her, as it isn't by me. Don't buy gifts often, because it smacks of trying to buy her. Just do it when appropriate - like with Christmas coming. Get the boys to make Christmas cards for her, using their handprints if they do not hold pencils yet. Can you offer to have the boys for a whole day while she does her Christmas shopping? Perhaps you could have a meal ready for when she gets home from that, too. Even if she does not intend spending much money on anyone this year, she must need a day to pick up and wrap a few things for the kids and her parents. It sounds as if you do not have a regular schedule for you to see the boys. Why not? If she does not want you in her house in the evenings, upsetting their routines, then you need to come to an agreement for you to see them for a block of time at the weekend, or perhaps to stay overnight for one or two nights a week. You coud suggest this in such a way that she can see she will get time off. How does she get her normal food shopping done? Can you help with this? What arrangements have you made for seeing her and the boys at Christmas?
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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PS: FC = family commitment. O&H + openness and honesty. EPs = extraordinary precautions, that you build into your daily, minute-by-minute behaviour to prevent an affair or other inappropriate relationships with the opposite sex. E.g: no travelling in a car with a woman without a trustworthy, reliable chaperone present. Acronyms, abbreviations
BW
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[quote=celticvoyager][quote=Still_Hopefull]
are you guys still doping family dinners? No If I remember right, you are across the street from her, right? Yes
Use those opportunities to meet her emotional needs. She is trying very hard to minimise her contact with me - only what is needed to 'hand-over' the Bs. I do not have that opportunity.Have you actually asked her if she is interested in repairing the marriage? No, I am afraid to ask for fear of her answer. And anyway, she has already made it very clear she is not interested in 'the marriage we had'... Have you told her that you don't want your old marriage back? That what you want is a new, better marriage to her? One that is based on honesty and openness, one that meets her needs and your mutually? In so many words, yes. I have tried to say clearly that I believe we can have a lasting romantic relationship (she is starting to get annoyed at me using the word 'marriage' now because it's not about rings or a certificate - I understand that, it's the relationship we've never had which I want)When you speak with her, you are going to have to talk in particulars... Be specific. Be aware that language that beats around the bush can be a trigger for her. The same kind of language you used when you were hiding stuff from her.If you are to recover your marriage, you need to present her with a qualitatively new one. one where you have strict boundaries in place around women, one where you are not putting her at risk and are meeting her needs. Yes, that's what I want to do, but I've realised it's easy to keep those boundaries if you are meeting each other's needs, right?Tell me again what EP's you have put into place? EP?? Ep= extra ordinary precautions.
These are things that you put in place to gaurantee her safety and security... Like"
1. I will not talk to other women
2. i will cancel my internet access
3. I will give you all my passwords to phone, email and such
Etc...
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SH, You dance well... I keep reading trying to decide whether or not to post to you... Oh well.... we'll see what happens! My guess; Your wife has certainly seen this song and dance of yours more than once during your marriage.... And this time, she ain't buying the snake oil apologies you've been peddling. I'm guessing that she finally sees the wolf in sheeps clothing.... the one that is still in there.... She was safer with her physically abusive dad than she has been with you.... Now before you say something like; Until you can offer me encouragement that it is possible to see change (in both of us) then I would prefer you not post.
I recognise there are two kinds of people here - those who have met God and know some level of forgiveness, and those who don't and are just looking for love. If you do not know God, then I don't have as much time for you. It also sounds like you are the BS and possibly a W. If I am right, you have less understanding of my position and can not offer me as much help as an ex-WH. Also, if you are not an ex-WH I would rather you leave the bitter replies alone and let someone who has more constructive help to fill the page. I am perfectly capable of harshly judging myself, which I have done for years and which ultimately does not benefit myself, my S or my boys. Let me share that I'm a former wayward and a Christian. And, no, I'm not bitter either..... lol I think you are so far removed from being safe that you shouldn't even be allowed to be around your children! comments like; no, it IS my fault. I hurt her. I do not claim in any way that I am innocent. I am guilty. I am a sinner and deserve what every sinner deserves. I hope that is clear. However, I also need what every sinner needs: freedom, forgiveness and hope. I hope that is clear too. This quote may have all the christianese you've compiled through the years, but it reeks of entitlement to me... Here's why I say this; After that first time, I actually went and saw my then pastor, with my then girlfriend (current estranged wife) to confess, get prayer and forgiveness and help. You were given, "what every sinner needs", and what did you do with it? Squandered it! Abused the freedom you "NEEDED"..... Yet you still want to lay claim to it??? 100% Entitlement! Your wife has likely forgiven you already, but you still equate forgiveness with her giving you another chance.... You are so mistaken about this!.... Hence, my earlier guess that your wife has seen this song and dance of yours far to many times and she is no longer willing to be your emotional whipping post any more.. YOU'RE NOT SAFE! So let me ask you a question based on this one; It has been very difficult to stay faithful to her in as far as not having a PA or real EA, especially since she has never satisfied me sexually to the extent I need it. I have remained (what my therapist recently called) 'remarkabley chast' - his words exactly. In what ways has this, self described, "lack of sexual fulfilment" been completely your fault?? I'd love it if you would share some detail on this ... And please don't quote scripture verses to me! Even satan believes in God and knows how to quote scripture for his own purposes... I'll check back.... but it's after my bed time here... Wan An!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Why are you not telling your wife about this site? The books? I have a couple of ideas as to why, but I would like to see what you think the reason is.
WE really could help her. And we could help you much better if we knew her side as well.
When you tell your wife about this site, and the books, don't tell her that it is a way to save your marriage. I believe that will most likely send her screaming in the other direction.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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What is generally true is that for a woman, the most important ENs are conversation and affection. This is my main issue - these are both out, and so are gifts now. What is left? I didn't mean that gifts are out. I was suggesting that EXPENSIVE gifts might be out, for now. I suspect that it is more the expense that irritated your wife, than the gifts themselves. I think you are right, although I did get the type of flowers wrong - to her that was a message. Giving little gifts is a way of showing affection, which is probably a top EN for her. It was also appropriate for you to give her a gift for your anniversary. Something like a framed photograph of you both with the kids might have worked better. I have been delighted with the runners' socks my H gave me, because I run (very slowly) around the park a couple of times per week. A CD from a band she mentioned liking in the 1980s - if she's that old! - would show that you went to a shop or to Amazon and thought of something you know she used to enjoy she grew up under DV (dad beat mum, not her or sisters) no good memories from 80s. Those sorts of things are not expensive, and they are very personal, catering to her interests. A generic pamper voucher - "what every woman and mother would love!" - might not be loved by her, as it isn't by me. Don't buy gifts often, because it smacks of trying to buy her. Just do it when appropriate - like with Christmas coming. Get the boys to make Christmas cards for her, using their handprints if they do not hold pencils yet this is probably one of the best options for me here... . Can you offer to have the boys for a whole day while she does her Christmas shopping? Perhaps you could have a meal ready for when she gets home from that, too. Even if she does not intend spending much money on anyone this year, she must need a day to pick up and wrap a few things for the kids and her parents. It sounds as if you do not have a regular schedule for you to see the boys. Why not? If she does not want you in her house in the evenings, upsetting their routines, then you need to come to an agreement for you to see them for a block of time at the weekend, or perhaps to stay overnight for one or two nights a week not a chance - it's a 1 bed (there were 4 of us before I left). You coud suggest this in such a way that she can see she will get time off. i take them to nursery most mornings and alternate between having them Fri night and Fri/Sat night on weekends. How does she get her normal food shopping done? Can you help with this? no. shops online and has it delivered. What arrangements have you made for seeing her and the boys at Christmas?
She will hand them to me on Christmas afternoon. that night she flies to Oz for 8 days to see her sister, so I will have them whilst she is away...
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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[quote=celticvoyager][quote=Still_Hopefull]
are you guys still doping family dinners? No If I remember right, you are across the street from her, right? Yes
Use those opportunities to meet her emotional needs. She is trying very hard to minimise her contact with me - only what is needed to 'hand-over' the Bs. I do not have that opportunity.Have you actually asked her if she is interested in repairing the marriage? No, I am afraid to ask for fear of her answer. And anyway, she has already made it very clear she is not interested in 'the marriage we had'... Have you told her that you don't want your old marriage back? That what you want is a new, better marriage to her? One that is based on honesty and openness, one that meets her needs and your mutually? In so many words, yes. I have tried to say clearly that I believe we can have a lasting romantic relationship (she is starting to get annoyed at me using the word 'marriage' now because it's not about rings or a certificate - I understand that, it's the relationship we've never had which I want)When you speak with her, you are going to have to talk in particulars... Be specific. Be aware that language that beats around the bush can be a trigger for her. The same kind of language you used when you were hiding stuff from her.If you are to recover your marriage, you need to present her with a qualitatively new one. one where you have strict boundaries in place around women, one where you are not putting her at risk and are meeting her needs. Yes, that's what I want to do, but I've realised it's easy to keep those boundaries if you are meeting each other's needs, right?Tell me again what EP's you have put into place? EP?? Ep= extra ordinary precautions.
These are things that you put in place to gaurantee her safety and security... Like"
1. I will not talk to other women
2. i will cancel my internet access
3. I will give you all my passwords to phone, email and such
Etc...We spoke and I told her what happened and how it built up to that event, and I said what I did to cover it up. I told her I needed to be open and honest. I told her some other things that weren't part of that event as well. I gave her my email passwords - she said thanks but she's not interested. I said I needed to in order to be open. I have more to say to her and want to write it in a letter that she can read when she wants to. I also need to think through everything and try not to forget anything and order it. I literally cannot work without the internet. Although I agree with your reasoning, I cannot do without it unless I sacrifice taking boys to nursery, which would inconvenience her more and mean I miss seeing them on 3 more occassions, and whilst only 15-20 mins, they are the most precious 15-20 mins during my week. I must say, though, I have not felt free of my older desires for this long since I don't know when. I thank God for this, but I think it has something to do with the gravity I now feel about what I did, no excuses. I currently have no fear about falling back into running searches for explicit content. I am praying that God gives me strength to make it last - since I believe one reason it is so hard for anyone to break these cycles is because habits form addictions which actually change the brain biologically. My brain literally needs some re-wiring...
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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Why are you not telling your wife about this site? The books? I have a couple of ideas as to why, but I would like to see what you think the reason is. I did the other night. She's "happy for me" I don't think she will be coming here...at least not unless she can see that a lasting change has taken place...I do still carry anger which I am trying to work out how to resolve, but almost none towards her now, just my parents. But I am letting go of her more each day as I know my true challenge is to be kind and faithful to her from now on, even if she still wants to be separated. I have to believe that one day, if I can be consistent enough for a long enough time in showing her kindness and generocity that she might change her mind. She feels the last 10 years have "depleated" her...her words. She even understands and uses LB principles...WE really could help her. And we could help you much better if we knew her side as well. I know...maybe one day... When you tell your wife about this site, and the books, don't tell her that it is a way to save your marriage. I believe that will most likely send her screaming in the other direction. Yes, that is close to her response- she predicted that soon she will feel pressure from our friends who all see I have changed but she is not willing, so she will feel even lonelier. And she has never spoken ill of me to anyone. And she threatened that if I pressure her she will run even further...I can only think that would mean leaving the country to go back to Oz with the boys to stay with her sister. I do not want that. As it is she has already said she wants to move back to start the boys in school in 2013, so already I am having to think about planning and what to do to close down UK life...another huge life change but this time that much more complex and painful instead of hopeful when we moved here...
Last edited by Still_Hopefull; 11/30/11 06:15 PM.
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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SH, You dance well... I keep reading trying to decide whether or not to post to you... Oh well.... we'll see what happens! My guess; Your wife has certainly seen this song and dance of yours more than once during your marriage.... And this time, she ain't buying the snake oil apologies you've been peddling. yes. I'm guessing that she finally sees the wolf in sheeps clothing.... the one that is still in there.... She was safer with her physically abusive dad than she has been with you.... Now before you say something like; Until you can offer me encouragement that it is possible to see change (in both of us) then I would prefer you not post.
I recognise there are two kinds of people here - those who have met God and know some level of forgiveness, and those who don't and are just looking for love. If you do not know God, then I don't have as much time for you. It also sounds like you are the BS and possibly a W. If I am right, you have less understanding of my position and can not offer me as much help as an ex-WH. Also, if you are not an ex-WH I would rather you leave the bitter replies alone and let someone who has more constructive help to fill the page. I am perfectly capable of harshly judging myself, which I have done for years and which ultimately does not benefit myself, my S or my boys. Let me share that I'm a former wayward and a Christian. And, no, I'm not bitter either..... lol this at least gives me some hope... I think you are so far removed from being safe that you shouldn't even be allowed to be around your children! Well, I am far from being a perfect dad, but I think I truly am a loving one, and already I no longer force them to give me hugs or kisses. I ask their permission every time, because I know I do not deserve them and I want them to have a choice to reciprocate it to me (I know, I have to give her that choice too...that's harder because I know she does know whats best for her, whereas if they don't reciprocate it's water off a ducks back to me...after all, they are only 3). We have done a few parenting classes together (esp. for parents of twins), and something that stands out is a 'cushion' of "good enough love". But, ok...I will ponder your comment.comments like; no, it IS my fault. I hurt her. I do not claim in any way that I am innocent. I am guilty. I am a sinner and deserve what every sinner deserves. I hope that is clear. However, I also need what every sinner needs: freedom, forgiveness and hope. I hope that is clear too. This quote may have all the christianese you've compiled through the years, but it reeks of entitlement to me... Here's why I say this; After that first time, I actually went and saw my then pastor, with my then girlfriend (current estranged wife) to confess, get prayer and forgiveness and help. You were given, "what every sinner needs", and what did you do with it? Squandered it! Abused the freedom you "NEEDED"..... Yet you still want to lay claim to it??? 100% Entitlement! Certainly hard not to feel so. But I clearly understand that she and the Bs are gifts to me which I don't deserve. In my anniversary card to her I said that "I will always be thankful for the time" I had...of course, most of that time is pain to her Your wife has likely forgiven you already maybe , but you still equate forgiveness with her giving you another chance.... You are so mistaken about this!.... Hence, my earlier guess that your wife has seen this song and dance of yours far to many times and she is no longer willing to be your emotional whipping post any more.. YOU'RE NOT SAFE! She reminded me the other night of what I said to her once in relation to her mother - trust and forgiveness are not the same thing...I must eat my own words. Only actions will do. So let me ask you a question based on this one; It has been very difficult to stay faithful to her in as far as not having a PA or real EA, especially since she has never satisfied me sexually to the extent I need it. I have remained (what my therapist recently called) 'remarkabley chast' - his words exactly. In what ways has this, self described, "lack of sexual fulfilment" been completely your fault?? I'd love it if you would share some detail on this ... I am not sure if I understand your question. Did you mean the opposite? I dumped that therapist.And please don't quote scripture verses to me! Even satan believes in God and knows how to quote scripture for his own purposes... Yes, I know I'll check back.... but it's after my bed time here... Wan An! Thank you for taking that time to read and post. I appreciate it. I don't like Christianese either...
Last edited by Still_Hopefull; 11/30/11 06:45 PM.
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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#5 Consider getting the book "Surviving An Affair." Still working (slowly) through HNHN and LB (I think I need to try and use what's left of the "15 hrs per week" on this), but I just bought SAA and 5-Ways.... God, Please help me help us! Thanks again, GO.
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 50
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SH, You dance well... I keep reading trying to decide whether or not to post to you... Oh well.... we'll see what happens! My guess; Your wife has certainly seen this song and dance of yours more than once during your marriage.... And this time, she ain't buying the snake oil apologies you've been peddling. I'm guessing that she finally sees the wolf in sheeps clothing.... the one that is still in there.... She was safer with her physically abusive dad than she has been with you.... Now before you say something like; Until you can offer me encouragement that it is possible to see change (in both of us) then I would prefer you not post.
I recognise there are two kinds of people here - those who have met God and know some level of forgiveness, and those who don't and are just looking for love. If you do not know God, then I don't have as much time for you. It also sounds like you are the BS and possibly a W. If I am right, you have less understanding of my position and can not offer me as much help as an ex-WH. Also, if you are not an ex-WH I would rather you leave the bitter replies alone and let someone who has more constructive help to fill the page. I am perfectly capable of harshly judging myself, which I have done for years and which ultimately does not benefit myself, my S or my boys. Let me share that I'm a former wayward and a Christian. And, no, I'm not bitter either..... lol I think you are so far removed from being safe that you shouldn't even be allowed to be around your children! comments like; no, it IS my fault. I hurt her. I do not claim in any way that I am innocent. I am guilty. I am a sinner and deserve what every sinner deserves. I hope that is clear. However, I also need what every sinner needs: freedom, forgiveness and hope. I hope that is clear too. This quote may have all the christianese you've compiled through the years, but it reeks of entitlement to me... Here's why I say this; After that first time, I actually went and saw my then pastor, with my then girlfriend (current estranged wife) to confess, get prayer and forgiveness and help. You were given, "what every sinner needs", and what did you do with it? Squandered it! Abused the freedom you "NEEDED"..... Yet you still want to lay claim to it??? 100% Entitlement! Your wife has likely forgiven you already, but you still equate forgiveness with her giving you another chance.... You are so mistaken about this!.... Hence, my earlier guess that your wife has seen this song and dance of yours far to many times and she is no longer willing to be your emotional whipping post any more.. YOU'RE NOT SAFE! So let me ask you a question based on this one; It has been very difficult to stay faithful to her in as far as not having a PA or real EA, especially since she has never satisfied me sexually to the extent I need it. I have remained (what my therapist recently called) 'remarkabley chast' - his words exactly. In what ways has this, self described, "lack of sexual fulfilment" been completely your fault?? I'd love it if you would share some detail on this ... And please don't quote scripture verses to me! Even satan believes in God and knows how to quote scripture for his own purposes... I'll check back.... but it's after my bed time here... Wan An! Just in case I wan't clear, I really appreciate your point of view, and I take it very seriously and I do ponder and question my own motives. I of course know the language and I know why you wrote this. I have also been reading other threads from BSs to try to understand how my wife might be feeling...but also just to keep in the front of my mind how utterly abhorrent all of this is and the pain it causes. I was truly shocked when I heard Dr H. state that affairs (consistently) cause more pain than rape...that is a resounding gong in my mind...but I want that alarm never to stop going off in my head, because it helps me to see my behaviour for what it really is. So, I do not expect you to change your view, and it is good for me to hear these differing opinions. I know this could all just be more of the same "talk"...well I have no objections to anyone seeing it that way. As always, I am thankful to everyone who takes the time to post, regardless of the opinion expressed. SH.
Dating from '89 > Married Nov '95 > Twin Bs Apr '08 > Separated Apr '11 : 22 yrs over (Can I save it?) I don't know how to get rid of the smiley face next to my forum name.
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Bump - this poster is now in the Divorcing forum, for anyone who can help.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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