Steve gave her a dose of reality. Her toxic friends give her a dose of fantasy.

When she is ugly like that with you; it is because she is having a hard time making you the bad guy. She needs you to be the bad guy to keep her fantasy ticking.

Steve gave her work that makes her work, and in her mind she is saying (because of your Plan A), why can't I just keep walking all over him?

She is still wayward, which means keep doing Plan A, continue letting her know your boundaries, and secretly prepare for Plan B.

Boundaries: I will not be in a marriage where my wife gives other men emotional support.

I will not be in a marriage with someone who has independent behavior.

I only talk marriage and not divorce.

Tough~

I agree with Tough,
Fog is still there, she will be up and down for a while......it's hard to stay patient, just stick to Plan A, and if she gets mean just don't engage, don't take things personally, that is what she wants.......she is trying to get you to giver her a reason she doesn't have to try.......justifying.
Steve will show her the light, she is smart she won't be able to disgard his logic.....
Make yourself look good, smell good, strong, sensitive and forgiving........
jessi

Thanks tough and jessitaylor. Sometimes her caustic comments and meaness to me do get to me, but I try very hard not to show it and to not take it personally (I am pretty good at this now!), or I ask her not to do it in front of the kids. I do feel she is fishing for a negative "old me" angry response from my taker, but I am determined not to do that, and anyway I do not feel angry about these things she says, only sad that it has come to this. It is discouraging to hear them from her and gets me analyzing the situation again, thinking what I am doing wrong, can do better, etc. I never knew what AOs and DJs were all about before MB.

And you are so right, it is hard to stay patient. This board and your responses help a bunch. Stick to the plan is my daily mantra.

Everyday game-plan: cologne, working out, caring, forgiving, upbeat, un-pressing super-dad and super-husband, esp. in front of her married friends (toxic ones live out of town and only get her side of things unfrotunately). I am now at my college weight, and 3 months of working out with weights has even made my 6 year old comment I try to do breakfast with my shirt off. She notices :0

The biggest challenge right now is getting through her wall to meet her ENs. Some days I do pretty good, some days the wall is up bigtime. She bats down affection though still pretty much all the time, with rare exceptioins, like when she cries about something. It is definitely a war of inches.

"Me: BH (41 yo), WW (40 yo)
Marriage: 12 years, together 15
Son 6, Daughter 3
Bomb dropped 5 Sept, still living under one roof but sleep seperately, wife wants to live seperately.
EA w OM started early spring, brief PA w OM August, OM died end Sept."


Being OM died WW did not get dumped. There is no the OM only used me for fun.

WW never got to see the OM's true colors and realize that you are the better husband and dad material then willingly dump the OM.

Being neither the dumper or dumpee has left WW in extra thick fog. So you will need extra patience.

Yes, unfortunately that does seem to be the case. The fog swirls, disapates ever so briefly, then swirls back. Still, things are improving which gives me some hope.

I read here the idea to take a calendar and mark good days and bad days to judge progress objectively over time. Seems like a good idea.

Road, the irony is not lost on me that if the OM had lived, that this maybe would have been easier since he was married and refused to leave his wife.

Blackhawk,

I remember when my husband didn't give me the time of day, but I never gave up, he worked with his OW so she had contact with him as well everyday.
I just made the house a place for him to escape the talking and gossip others were spreading about he and his mistress.......
I cooked and always looked good, I showed him I was a loving mother and wife in the midst of my own life being torn apart..........I acted with grace and dignity......
I used the power of touch at first, I would ask for hugs because I was upset(wink) I would brush lint of his shirt, touch his shoulders or brushed against an arm or leg reaching for something, when I spoke I looked right into his eyes.......
touched his had when I spoke, listened as he spoke about what his trials were now that exposure of what he had done was out in the open......
I did little things that he may do for himself but didn't have to because I had taken care of it........he noticed, thanked me, I used the word thank you a lot.......
I told him I understood his feelings and how he got himself into the mess he was in......
It took some time but finally after 8 months or so. He came around little by little..........your wife has a different issue, the Om has left her with all the feelings she had for him in her memory........Just like anyone else we lose in time it fades and we move on with reality, she will do the same, you just have to wait her out......
She will eventually understand why, how and what it really was.........an affair.......
The OM dying has complicated her emotions ............not forever but until she lets that go............she will understand one day her future wasn't with OM that he was staying with his wife..........

Thanks jessi for the encouragement. Patience, patience and more patience seems to be the key to getting through this. I remember reading earlier, this is a marathon and not a sprint and I did not really grasp this then, but now I am starting too.

Last night was a good night, dinner as a family, looking at relative's photos on line with WW, no mean comments from WW, time with kids, etc. It actually felt normal again. This morning was also ok. Let's see what tonight will bring

I have got to get into the "casual accidental" touching thing more. I do try to do this alot and it goes well. We had some of that last night. I don't know if I am reading more into this than I should, but she never pulls away when I do this even if the casual accidental touch is a long one. But if I intentionally touch her, she pulls away fast. Even when we have had hugs whe I have conforted her a few times, they only last a few seconds before she pulls away.

I just found out I have to be out of the country for work all of next week. Positively, then I am back for a week and then we all go on vacation in the US for one month and stay at my parents (trying to organize a family disney trip for one week too during that month).

Advice, thoughts on being away next week? I realize Dr. Harley says avoid nights away, but it is unavoidable. I am really upset I have to be away right now.

What about the family trip out of the country for one month with the kids? We will be sharing one bedroom with the kids and then a hotel room if we do disney. This has to help connect us, or am I being overly hopeful?

While in the US we will all (kids, me, WW) together practically 24/7 for 4 weeks.

Blackhawk,

Being together for a month is good for you two.......just keep it relaxed and focus on fun with your wife and family........
While you are away stay in contact, email, text........give her a place to talk about kids, life.........
Take it a day at a time, I hope tonight goes well, keep it light and easy, Thank her for anything she does, enjoy supper and the kids.......try to laugh a little to release the stress you two feel.......
Slowly she will let that guard go and come around...........
Patience and integrity..............
I think you are one of the lucky ones, I will my husband's OW would fall off the face of the earth...............

Thanks jessi for the words of wisdom. Last night was also good, dinner all together including kids. No meaness or AOs, except when putting my daughter to bed. I closed the door accidentally and she got angry and yelled at me. I told her calmly that yelling at me in front of the kids is not allowed. Later she came in and made another daughter request but did it quietly and said "dear (forced), can you please not..." At least no AO!

And I sympathize with you on the OW thing. I do not know how my reactions would have been if the OM had lived, and if the A had continued. She probably would have absconded with the kids to move to his town, she was that out of her head and in this fantasy.

I do admit that when I knew the OM had died that although the father in me felt sorry for his little kid, the husband in me was happy as heii that he was no longer a direct threat to my family and kids' futures. It is the truth. I just hope my wife understands one day that he was going to use her as his side thing and even told her he had no intention to leave his wife.

Of course she will not admit this yet that she was moving to his town to convince him to leave his wife because it messes up the fantasy, everyone divorcing happily, them being together, me and OMW being "replaced", etc. Maybe she will get it in time.

We have our first joint Steve call tomorrow morning.

Tonight, another good night overall. Got home and told her I would have to leave the country for a week for work, she got really upset and out of the blue asked if I was going to divorce her while in the US. This is the second time she has asked this when I have traveled to the US. I held her hand (she even let me hold her hand!!!), reassured her no while looking her in eyes, I am working on marriage, we are working with Steve, what he says makes sense, it is only for work, I'll get back and then we'll all go as a family for one month in the States. She let me hug her briefly before pulling away.

Later, she mentioned I no longer give her money for bills (I have become tight with cash while she is wayward, esp. since she is working part-time from home and saving her own money now), I asked how much is needed, she tells me, then she jokes she will have to start having SF with me for money to pay for things. I jokingly respond, how much do you need, always ready, etc. I almost think she was serious and wanting to justify in her mind having SF, but perhaps I am reading too much into this...

Gave her my old gaming computer for her at-home work and set it up for her, took DD for walk in snow, we then shared a chocolate bar. She is downstairs filling our the EN and LB questionnaires for Steve for our call tomorrow, joking with me if changing a lightbulb at midnight (I do this often) qualifies to write as an annoying behavior.

This is crazy. Last week I felt hopeless, this week I see my old wife coming back.

It happens little by little, the more she sees you as her safe place I like the way you held her hand looked right into her eyes and connected with her and reassured her, she probably felt very safe and loved in that moment......
The little hug was good, my husband used to pull away or not really hang on at first when he start pulling me closer and actually hugging me I knew he was turning a corner ..............little things like that will show you she is back, try to laugh a little and joke it's a good thing........Let her feel safe..
Happy for you Blackhawk

Helping her feel safe seems important right now. I will work on that some more whenever I can. I need to think how I can reassure her more often.

It is the little gestures that add up I guess. We had a big pile of clothes to iron and she said to me not to worry about them (I have been doing ALL ironing since Sept when this began, so even her saying not to worry about them was sort of a big deal to me), she would iron them, but she got busy with work/kids and did not do it for a couple of days, so I did it last night before I went to bed. She went to get some clothes this morning and said something like "wow, I can't believe he ironed everything again" to my son. She was surprised, but in a good way from what I overheard. Little gestures add up.

I once read here a post by a guy named Mark about throwing pebbles into a pond that then fall below the surface, and eventually if you throw enough pebbles the pile of pebbles grows big enough to break through the water. But you can't see the pebble pile under the water, so you never really can be sure if you are making progress or not until the pebbles break the top of the water when the pile is big enough. I am always looking for pebbles to throw into that pond...

You have the plan now, when you first met your wife that is what happened that is how you fell in love.....It didn't happen in a day either.......
You sound very solid in your thinking and you seem to have the awareness to know what to do so she feels protected and important......
It won't be long now where she will be in the same place about you and your needs, don't ever get caught up in your needs not being met yet, no expectations, right now it's about her.
Just enjoy the time you spend together and your family being in tact still.......
eye on the big picture, your future, happily in love with your wife and raising your children in a happy enviorment.

Jessi, I appreciate the encouragement. It really helps keep me focused.

Had a really good day again today. We sat down in the morning and discussed the EN questionnaire as Steve instructed for about 2 hours. We then spent the afternoon clothes shopping and running errands together. Tonight was family time, dinner and alot of laughing and horsing around all together with the kids. Alot of "casual" and accidental touching all day from me

After we completed the 2 hour EN discussion, she told me she understands now the mechanics (ENs, LBs, logic), how it works, and she said she thinks Steve's approach does work (!), but then she added she is unsure if it will work for us yet.





Tomorrow we do the LB questionnaire, and then I leave tomorrow night for a week after spending the day with her and the kids. Our next call with Steve is early next week.

Had a good morning with family all together. She had an AO when dressing kids for outside but apologized to me immediately.

We did the LB questionnaire after lunch. It was so-so and sort of tough and intense for me sometimes. She said it was fine for her but I could tell she was hiding some discomfort and was getting defensive about my indepedent behavior LB explanation.

Anyway, it went fine overall and I guess as well as could be expected (Steve warned us). After the EN one we were both really positive. After this one I felt drained. We had a good evening anyway though later in the day.

Our next step is a joint call early next week with Steve...

Left for my week-long overseas trip. She made dinner for us before I left. As I left, she stood at the door and we said bye twice standing there awkwardly, each time smiling sweetly at each other. Maybe I should have went for a hug, but I did not, too tired of being rejected. At least I got some casual accidental touching in today and I got in a couple of shoulder squeezes. She does not reject touching if there is a reason or by accident, e.g. leaning over each other in kitchen. She will even let it linger (and I really play that card for all its worth). But she acts like it burns to have any kind of intentional touch. I guess to be expected...

Gotta keep working the plan...

I think I am pretty good now at having eliminated most LBs, and my info from her questionnaire will let me take care of the rest. But her ENs, she put honesty (figures...) high and SF and then conversation. We have had some flirting but I do not see SF happening anytime soon. Am I right to just focus then on the top 5 ENs I can meet? Perhaps a Steve question...