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chicka,

How are things going? Hope you had a nice holiday smile


Ddays 2007 and 2011
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Been a bit down. Birthday holidays death anniversaries . So add that to the rollercoaster. But. H is trying to help me thu it. I am the positive one. I hope you had a good day.

How are things with you Susie?


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
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Originally Posted by chickadee1
Been a bit down. Birthday holidays death anniversaries . So add that to the rollercoaster. But. H is trying to help me thu it. I am the positive one.

This time of year can be rough. hug Glad to hear jerkyboy is helping you through it.

Other than being sick over the fact that my kids are probably going to be stuck with a wayward for a father indefinitely, for the most part, I am doing OK and looking forward to my future once this D is over. Thank you for asking!


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ugg i am so sorry susie! this is the worst time. a strong honest mom can always win. i used to give my mom mothers day flowers and fathers day flowers. she was stronger than any 2 parents i know, you are that person.

i think its because she knew she only had herself to do it and there was no fall back, so she had to work 2x as hard. not a great spot for her- but i had a great childhood.


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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hhh
Quote
Dad, I can't give you timing or anything like that, but I can give you an idea of what to expect.

The hardest part of the fight is now over. The A has ended, and you are moving towards recovery. As Pep would say; it's a direction not a destination. If you are a man of faith, consider it like securing your spot in heaven; the things you have learned must be adhered to for the rest of your life - you will fail sometimes, but then you have to get back on the path.

So, with the hardest part of the journey out of the way, you will now embark on the longest part of the journey.

The first leg is tough. You are now going to be able to begin progressing through the grieving process. You cannot "get over it," go around it, go above it, slink under it. You have to go through it.

If I get some time this weekend, I'll dig up some stuff on grieving so that you can reflect on that and make sense of some of this part of the roller coaster.

The roller coaster of recovery along with the roller coaster of grief is a wild ride.

6 months, a year... however long it takes, eventually you will sort it out and come out of grieving. However, you will still be on the coaster.

Chin up, though! Without the complication of grief, the recovery coaster is a tad more mild. Like a "mad mouse" coaster versus a super-coaster.

The solution is to remain vigilant in your new MB-led lifestyle - keep up UA, KEEP UP RH, keep up PoJA.

At times, you are going to retract, you are going to hit these moments of pain, anger, bitterness... you are going to get indifferent, or want to withdraw.

Fight that.

In those moments, imagine yourself encased in in a protective shell - you are alone in the dark, and you are starving. You can see shafts of light shining through the cracks.

At these times, your FWW, and the way she has tried to pick up the rope and share the load, is going to be your life-saver.

Meeting your needs, EP's, RH on her part is going to be like tossing handfuls of rice at the shell to nourish you. Copious amounts will be lost. However, some grains will slip through the cracks, and that is what you will need to sustain yourself.

DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO WITHDRAW.
[/quote]

have had this in my bag for months- just read it again. HHH can you point me to your links on grieving?

having a terrible time with the uneasy panicy feelings, H is asking what he need to do, but i cannot tell him anything, i just dont know....

we are spending over 20+ hours together- we do nothing alone, except work.

my brain is working overtime, tick tick tick, trigger trigger trigger, cannot get it all to just stop. really i am trying- stop sign out, file folders of the brain away. it exhausting physically. i know this is not good for us. i guess i am having a hard time with moving forward and forgetting the past.(ugggh).

then there is the entire world (or just alot) that can trigger me and i cannot insulate myself from it (i dont know how).



Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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There are a couple stories of BW's that might resonate with you.

You'll need to do a search....

DancesWithGoats and her FWH posts as GreenMile

Sunflower55 and her FWH posts as RFWIHD

I think you'll discover that this process is going to take years.... 3,5,10.... Dunno?? I do know there is no magical amount of time when there has been multiple affairs and years of lies....

Last edited by HerPapaBear; 11/28/11 10:38 AM.




Recovery began 10/07;

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thank you i will look up, i did browse danceswithgoats (that name makes me chuckle). I will look at the rest.

i think that i am worried that i will get to 3 5 or 10 years and cant do it. I cannot trigger or feel like this for that long, you might a well lock me up.(I am exhausted).



Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
I think you'll discover that this process is going to take years.... 3,5,10.... Dunno?? I do know there is no magical amount of time when there has been multiple affairs and years of lies....


If it's been two years since the last affair and the marriage isn't "better than ever", Dr. Harley usually says it's time to hang up the cleats and separate, planning to divorce. The chance of recovery -- ever -- is extremely low at that point.


Doormat_No_More
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Originally Posted by chickadee1
i think that i am worried that i will get to 3 5 or 10 years and cant do it. I cannot trigger or feel like this for that long, you might a well lock me up.(I am exhausted).

Hey chickadee,

Sorry to hear that you've been down. Hopefully things will start looking up again. For me it's the holidays--remembering how lousy it was this time last year. But we're just replacing those bad memories with good ones, trusting that it'll fade with time.





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Chicka, have been meaning to tell you that your post was probably the best thing you could have said to me at that time.
Thank you smile

Don't have much advice on how to get through this time, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Just want to give you a big cyber hug ~ {{{{{{{{chickadee}}}}}}


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Originally Posted by chickadee1
hhh
Quote
Dad, I can't give you timing or anything like that, but I can give you an idea of what to expect.

The hardest part of the fight is now over. The A has ended, and you are moving towards recovery. As Pep would say; it's a direction not a destination. If you are a man of faith, consider it like securing your spot in heaven; the things you have learned must be adhered to for the rest of your life - you will fail sometimes, but then you have to get back on the path.

So, with the hardest part of the journey out of the way, you will now embark on the longest part of the journey.

The first leg is tough. You are now going to be able to begin progressing through the grieving process. You cannot "get over it," go around it, go above it, slink under it. You have to go through it.

If I get some time this weekend, I'll dig up some stuff on grieving so that you can reflect on that and make sense of some of this part of the roller coaster.

The roller coaster of recovery along with the roller coaster of grief is a wild ride.

6 months, a year... however long it takes, eventually you will sort it out and come out of grieving. However, you will still be on the coaster.

Chin up, though! Without the complication of grief, the recovery coaster is a tad more mild. Like a "mad mouse" coaster versus a super-coaster.

The solution is to remain vigilant in your new MB-led lifestyle - keep up UA, KEEP UP RH, keep up PoJA.

At times, you are going to retract, you are going to hit these moments of pain, anger, bitterness... you are going to get indifferent, or want to withdraw.

Fight that.

In those moments, imagine yourself encased in in a protective shell - you are alone in the dark, and you are starving. You can see shafts of light shining through the cracks.

At these times, your FWW, and the way she has tried to pick up the rope and share the load, is going to be your life-saver.

Meeting your needs, EP's, RH on her part is going to be like tossing handfuls of rice at the shell to nourish you. Copious amounts will be lost. However, some grains will slip through the cracks, and that is what you will need to sustain yourself.

DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO WITHDRAW.

have had this in my bag for months- just read it again. HHH can you point me to your links on grieving?

having a terrible time with the uneasy panicy feelings, H is asking what he need to do, but i cannot tell him anything, i just dont know....

we are spending over 20+ hours together- we do nothing alone, except work.

my brain is working overtime, tick tick tick, trigger trigger trigger, cannot get it all to just stop. really i am trying- stop sign out, file folders of the brain away. it exhausting physically. i know this is not good for us. i guess i am having a hard time with moving forward and forgetting the past.(ugggh).

then there is the entire world (or just alot) that can trigger me and i cannot insulate myself from it (i dont know how).

I never got around to putting them on Dad's thread, but I did just recently read one that I sent to my wife;

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/lifelines/201111/attachment-is-the-source-all-suffering

The excerpt from Sole Survivor is pretty good;

Quote
The few times he had gone to meetings of The Compassionate Friends, he had heard other grieving parents speak of the Zero Point. The Zero Point was the instant of the child's death, from which every future event would be dated, the eye blink during which crushing loss reset your internal gauges to zero. It was the moment at which your shabby box of hopes and wants--which had once seemed to be such a fabulous chest of bright dreams--was turned on end and emptied into an abyss, leaving you with zero expectations. In a clock tick, the future was no longer a kingdom of possibility and wonder, but a yoke of obligation--and only the unattainable past offered a hospitable place to live. He had existed at Zero Point for more than a year, with time receding from him in both directions, belonging to neither the days ahead nor those behind. It was as though he had been suspended in a tank of liquid nitrogen and lay deep in cryogenic slumber.

For us, the "Zero Point" is our D-Day(s). The rest of the article may be worth sharing with your H, as it describes how to support someone grieving - the same thing people are told on the boards - BE THERE.

Another one that I put on the Men's thread recently, was from AoM, titled "This Too Shall Pass;"

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/10/09/this-too-shall-pass/

This one is an excellent reflection on facing grief and loss, and the book excerpts used here are also fantastic;

Quote
�Any one second: he remembered: the thought of feeling like he�d be feeling this second for 60 more of these seconds�he couldn�t deal. He could not f�-ing deal. He had to build a wall around each second just to take it. The whole first two weeks of it are telescoped in his memory down into like one second�less: the space between two heartbeats. A breath and a second, the pause and gather between each cramp. An endless Now stretching its gull-wings out on either side of his heartbeat. And he�d never before or since felt so excruciatingly alive. Living in the Present between pulses.�

Quote
�He could do dextral pain the same way: Abiding. No one single instant of it was unendurable. Here was a second right here: he endured it. What was undealable-with was the thought of all the instants lined up and stretching ahead, glittering�It�s too much to think about. To Abide there�He could just hunker down in the space between each heartbeat and make each heartbeat a wall and live there. Not let his head look over.�


And, finally, another article I read about how anxiety (those panicky feelings) can actually help us;

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-doc/201111/why-anxiety-is-good-your-love-life


Now, the context of the article itself doesn't seem as applicable;

Quote
I suggested, "When you were confident that you'd find love, you didn't and when you got anxious about it, you did. Perhaps anxiety had a part in it."

Lauren's eyes widened as she asked, "How's that?"

"Anxiety can spur us into action and can help solve problems. Perhaps your behavior changed when you got anxious," I interpreted.

But, I offer you this; maybe your anxiety is trying to spur you into action about something; your EN's are not being met properly (review the ENQ), your husband has recently LB'd you (review the LBQ), you haven't had enough UA time (brainstorm, PoJA, and schedule), or you've had a recent trigger (identify and eliminate).

Hope this helps.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 11/28/11 02:35 PM.

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HPB/TST- Ok I have killed a tree, printed Green Mile and another one from DWG and one of SF55. Wow, I read DWG in May, but will re-read (pep suggested) I think I was too raw to see some things.

DNM- thank you

NW-last year he was traveling and into his mass A and I was pretty much alone for the holidays. So that�s not helping like decorating (he said something like �last year�.� I wanted to say sorry sweetie but I did that alone last year, and that and that and that�. oh yeah and that too. ) ( DJ I know) � uggh- thank you.
SusieQ - hugs to you.

HHH- gonna kill more trees and print the articles. thank you.

I agree that being anxious can help me be more productive it�s like giving the energizer bunny a bit of speed. But this time it�s much more like i don�t know what to do or fix. So i am kind of just running in circles (and the adrenaline highs are exhausting).

I will review my EN- i am sure they have changed.
no real LB's
UA - a ridiculous amount of time
triggers- they happen every day for me. (we would have to live in a bubble to eliminate all of them)- this is a big problem (put on top a racing mind- that doent help)


every person's words and advice and hug help.


Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
If it's been two years since the last affair and the marriage isn't "better than ever", Dr. Harley usually says it's time to hang up the cleats and separate, planning to divorce. The chance of recovery -- ever -- is extremely low at that point.

I don't know where you pulled this from as I have never read this or heard Dr Harley say this.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
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He says it almost every day on the radio show. Give a listen, it's good stuff!


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Originally Posted by chickadee1
NW-last year he was traveling and into his mass A and I was pretty much alone for the holidays. So that�s not helping like decorating (he said something like �last year�.� I wanted to say sorry sweetie but I did that alone last year, and that and that and that�. oh yeah and that too. ) ( DJ I know) � uggh- thank you.

Huh, sounds about like our house last year when FWW was completely checked out. Big time triggers for me and we talked about it.

Have you talked to your husband about it?





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Originally Posted by chickadee1
triggers- they happen every day for me. (we would have to live in a bubble to eliminate all of them)- this is a big problem (put on top a racing mind- that doent help)

What kind of triggers? The step-son's mother?

Are there any that you can avoid by making a drastic change...moving, for example?



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well i have to talk to him now-i know.

thats a major trigger and just the whole realtionship. moving, why? there is still DSS so that wont ever go away even if there is no contact. the rest of the floozies didnt know i existed until OW1 got curious to his lies.. bingo internet finds everything...

the damage and betrayal is done and there will always be a reminder i am afraid, which is a huge problem. i was played in a big game. (dont get me wrong, it sounded i as if i gave up, no. if any contact ever occurs the wrath is much worse then their game- i just dont like games)

can i vote for spell check, i just read thingsin my most recent post, i can spell just not type. bunnie brain moving faster than my 20 wpm.



Me 44- yes ugggh
WH 47
together 26 years M 19
serial cheater big time
DD1 2.24.11
NC letter sent 3/7/11
NC letter to OW2 april
final truths 5/8-- all of them poly confirmed 5/18
working the plan

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Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
I think you'll discover that this process is going to take years.... 3,5,10.... Dunno?? I do know there is no magical amount of time when there has been multiple affairs and years of lies....


If it's been two years since the last affair and the marriage isn't "better than ever", Dr. Harley usually says it's time to hang up the cleats and separate, planning to divorce. The chance of recovery -- ever -- is extremely low at that point.


DNM,

I was specifically discussing triggers and the pain associated with them....

The feelings of romantic love in the marriage may be better than ever, but it doesn't change a BS'es memories, triggers and the levels of pain associated with them!

Chickadee need only be patient with herself.... She's the only one that can make the decisions about her marriage.

And FWIW, I've not seen Dr. H post the general statement you've mentioned, to any couples on his weekend forums, nor have I seen it in any of his books...





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Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Even with my previous post in mind, recoveery still takes 3-5 years + ....

a couple can build romantic love quickly, and it can feel better than ever, but long term marital recovery/healing from the betrayal/infidelity still takes time!

IMO, it's quality and quantity!

Loyalty that was stripped away at the time of the betrayal is not re-gained because romantic love is established in the marriage, and not in two short years either. IMO it takes 3,5,10+ to re-establish this loss....

Integrity that was thrown out the window by the WS is not re-gained because they feel romantic love either..... Again it takes time.... years....

Last edited by HerPapaBear; 11/28/11 09:22 PM.




Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Here's what I "see" when I read the 2 year stretch DNM refers to;

Within that 2 years a couple should be able to implement PoJA, practice Radical Honesty, and maintain 15 hours of UA time each week (remembering that more is needed if they are not in love).

EPs should be written out and adhered to, transparency provided.


Not "recovered," but heading towards recovery.

ENs are met the way each spouse likes, feedback is given in a safe manner, as it is with avoiding Love Busters.

That's what I envision for a 2 year mark where the marriage is "better than ever."

You cannot place a timeline on loss and grief, but you can fill your life with things which make it smaller in comparison.



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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