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Pepperbamd, I agree to a certain extent. All of this sounds nice and true, but there is one thing you left out and that is compromise. I don't mean compromising your values or your faith, I mean in initmate and in everyday issues and challenges. I.e., the husband compromising with his wife in terms of her desires and goals, from which movie to see to how many kids and where to live and carrer choices. I believe the onus is on the husband. In any important decision, or even less important, I believe that woman look favorably to men who overcome their ego and compromise or their sake, or the familiy's sake.

What you are displying here are good principles, but without the element of compromise they will not be successful.

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Quote:
All of this sounds nice and true, but there is one thing you left out and that is compromise.
Nice segue to MB concepts, Tom! I think Pep meant a shorter version of where you're taking your comment (sorry to speak for you, Pep!)

All of these things leads to the POJA. You mentioned 'compromising', which may leave one partner resentful over the 'compromise' - Marriage Builders encourages the Policy of Joint Agreement - 'enthusiastic agreement' - it's not just agreeing to your partner's thoughts/plans - it's being in total agreement over those plans. That's when the gel sets.


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Originally Posted By: Tom2010
Pepperbamd, I agree to a certain extent. All of this sounds nice and true, but there is one thing you left out and that is compromise. I don't mean compromising your values or your faith, I mean in initmate and in everyday issues and challenges. I.e., the husband compromising with his wife in terms of her desires and goals, from which movie to see to how many kids and where to live and carrer choices. I believe the onus is on the husband. In any important decision, or even less important, I believe that woman look favorably to men who overcome their ego and compromise or their sake, or the familiy's sake.

What you are displying here are good principles, but without the element of compromise they will not be successful.

Tom

That sounds to me like the thoughts of someone who hasn't read, or at least hasn't understood, Dr Harley's MB programme.

When you say "the husband compromising with his wife in terms of her desires and goals, from which movie to see to how many kids and where to live and carrer choices. I believe the onus is on the husband", this doesn't even sound like "compromise"; it sounds like "sacrifice". What you seem to be saying is that the man should give in to his wife over family, children and career choices. You said that the woman looks favourably to the man who overcomes ego and compromises for the sake of her and the family. That is sacrifice.

That goes entirely against the core principle of MB, which is the Policy of Joint Agreement. Neither spouse should "compromise" if that means giving in to the desires of the other spouse. The couple should reject options about which either one is unhappy, and then brainstorm and seek solutions until they find one to which they BOTH enthusiastically agree.

What you wrote is in direct opposition to POJA and will lead that husband to feel resentful over his sacrifices, eventually.

Your point also has nothing to do with Pep's point in this thread, which was about how husbands and wives become irresistible to each other. Or, if it does...well I cannot see how a husband allowing his wife to get her own way over decisions will make HER irresistible to HIM.


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What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are dark, Pep.

Experientially, a wife tends to find her husband irresistible disposable when he
- learns to create an environment of affection that clearly and repeatedly expresses his love for her;
- sets aside time every day just to talk to her with undivided attention and interest;
- is completely honest and open with her;
- provides financial support for her and;
- is committed to the moral and educational development of their children.

The intensely personally depressing thing about this list is how disastrously a marriage can crash and burn with four out of five elements highly satisfied, if the fifth is considered extremely absent.

This segues to a consideration about another recent comment (by HHH?) who mused that we (home-schooled) peer counselors over time would develop reliable insights into either fomenting or defusing entanglements in our own lives, or situations with acquaintances we become informed of. Here we hear every day from disoriented BSs whose clarion call is, "We didn't have a perfect marriage, but it was pretty good...."

And to complete the triad of related concepts, I am dismayed by the lengths Mirrormirror has had to go to ask "helpful" folks to stop cautioning him about an RA. I stand with him on this, in defense of my own stalwart understanding the the core of NG cannot ever be tempted to stray. I wouldn't care if the lady in question were an amalgam of the totality of ideal feminine virtues, and my bride had somehow forfeited all qualities, I could NOT go outside the marriage for the ENs that must be generated within the marriage. It won't happen. My talking to women is done on the same basis as my talking to men - usually leavened with humor, comradeship and ease - and any ENs would be universally applicable, outbound or incoming. (Remember also - the key interface that started my bride and me on a re-converging path was my private, soul-baring talk with our female family friend, in her kitchen.)

Mixing the three together is unpleasant. I know what caused her to stray, and to this day I remain astonished how easily and casually she would have tossed away thirty-three years of marriage over my failing that should have been "endured". (If she were not going to tell me, that is.) Coupled with my ironclad knowledge of my own immutable fidelity, ongoing reflection on her (pedestrian) lack of resistance to straying brought about by new BH stories here keeps me....agitated.

While I may have forgiven her (in the sense that I have exacted no retribution), I fear that I will never accept that she could have done this to me, because I could NEVER have done that to her. I wonder if this (because of our similar levels of assurance in our own constancy) is/was the cause of MM's recent crisis of recovery progress.

Now, aren't you sorry you asked?

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I could point out that Dr Harley did stipulate that all five conditions must be met.

I could point out that Dr Harley describes the one condition that was missing for your wife as the top need for women. It was not just one of five, i.e. 20%. It might have been 60% on its own.

But instead I'll just say that it wasn't the missing EN that led your wife to stray. It was her willingness to allow an EN to be met by someone other than you.

You could have been meeting that EN and the affair could still have happened, because she had a "pedestrian lack of resistance to straying".

A person has an affair when they allow someone of the opposite sex to meet their ENs. An affair can happen even when the spouse is meeting top ENs well.


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While I appreciate the attribution, I cannot stake claim on any similar comment in recent postings to my memory. I have made the statement, but again, cannot claim nor name its origination off the top of my head.

One of the things about "working the MB trenches" - for me at least - is similar to analogizing actions and concepts. By hearing it from another tongue, or another point of view, I can gain some personal clarity.

This is why I will often quote or riff off of other posters, as their input is like placing a missing cog into my mental machine.
It is also why I will be a PITA and debate at times; a cog is placed, and the problem solving mechanisms begin to spin.

Its a messy machine... I would find Muppets preferable smile


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Hello Sugar Cane,

You're absolutely correct. It is scarifice, and why not if you love her.

You have to understand, and I didn't mention that we are older, but we did grow our marriage thru the 1970's and forward. We are married and together for 43 years now!!

And, yes I compromised with Char at times and it meant a self-denial because when I did it, it made her happy and without me feeling any resentment.

One thing you pretty damn well need to undertand Cane before you judge others here is this: In the early 1970's I was enrolled in the evening program at NU to get my MBA. Took a tough 3 years and Char encouarge me, put up with it, and and we had to sacrifice out time together for awhile because it took me quite awhile each week to study. Wasn't that young even back then. During that time tho I just took time to be with her - bike rides, walking even tho it meant I would have to double up on studying the next few days. And each time I completed a course and got an A or B I took her out to her favoirite restauant. That was a joint agreement Cane that I honored, and she was delighted not only for the dinner out but for fact that I had made myself more marketable.

Since then, compromises have played an important role in our marriage not because it is 'giving in" as you say, but because it has been the willingness from each of us to sacrifice for the both of us and our family.

Tom

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Originally Posted By: Vity
I guess it depends on who the audience is for that. In the general public, irresistible means sexually desirable, not emotional connection. Most people men wouldn't even think of the emotional component.


Fixed that for you. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
in defense of my own stalwart understanding the the core of NG cannot ever be tempted to stray


Wow, NG, I really like your posts, but you've got to know that this statement is a big red flag.

All of us -- all of us! -- can be trusted in some circumstances, and cannot be trusted in others.

I hope you are saying that you would never enter those compromising circumstances. I hope you recognize that in those compromising circumstances, you would be tempted.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Vity
I think a different word should be used instead of 'irresistible'. It is correct by the dictionary definition of irresistible, but that's not what most people think. Most people think of a strong sexual desire.

Vity, I think it is important for you to realize that the circle of people you surround yourself with does not constitute "most people."


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Sugar Cane,

After my last post I felt I should clairfy.

I will say I am blessed that I married one of the most admirable woman in the world.

I will honestly disclose that she needed and deserved a policy of joint agreement after I was discharged from treatment for alcoholism in the early 90s. She stayed with me, nurtured our kids and she offered me her trust on conditions. She was supportive but it was conditional. By the grace of God I paid attention to her got sober and in recovery with help from others as well, and WE recovered.

When I mentioned compromising I intended that simply to mean things that make her happy as well as me too. The sacrafice is just this - giving a little of what I might prefer over to just enjoying seeing her happy. If that is wrong or against MB conecpts, so be it, but we are still married and still in love with each other. Only negative thing is that I have have not found a way to compromise for that fact that I can't lift her and carry her to our room like I used to - she's gained a few pounds and I am not as strong as I was in my 40's....*s*

By the way Sugar Cane, right after I earned my MBA thru night school back in 70s' and her sacrafice for us she went to evening school and earned her masters in ED, and taught for 7 years. I remember the good times we were at the dining room table and I was helping her math course. Our's is a history together that cannot be duplicated!

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Well this is off topic so I am probably out of bounds posting this here but as long as I addressed the subject earlier just had a few crazy thoughts.

Marital, Char is here now for a visit for a couple of days. She flew up yesterday and due to leave fri. Her first time here since last April and we walked around the pond this afternoon since there is no snow here as yet fortunately. We were slow and probably looked like a couple in our 80s but she has a knee strain again and may require surgery so she walks slow. We watched part of a movie and she went to bed early. I don't want to see her go back but am going to go there over Christmas. I feel I need to create a separate thread for this. She can't sleep well in the nursing home but has been sound asleep here now for awhile and that is good.

Sugar Cane...despite our disagreement on my initial post, just thought of this now regarding shopping at the local grocery store yesterday. I actually saw a container with stalks of genuine sugar cane for $3.49 each. This is sort of a specialty store in terms of produce and internationl food items. That was the first time I ever saw that. They were just five foot high green stalks and I have no idea what you would do with them. Just struck me as humerous since I had posted back to you.

Just in general, if you guys want to see a sort of 'feel good' film then you may want to check "Keeping the Faith". We watched about half of it and rest tomorrow. I know she likes these chic flick movies and I just happened on this one but it is really good. Priest and rabbi reunited with a female childhood friend and now they're competing for her. I am relating to it because I was in the seminary for a couple of years way back when.

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why is there a tendency to over complicate things? stickout
irresistible romantic is:-

Him = he takes his army boots off

Me = I take his army boots off

see, its the simple things loveheart

All a work in progress you see, building up to things like:

he can say luv yer without checking to see if his troopers are near;
discuss starting our family.

yes just the little things

rotflmao

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LINK to MB page.


Methinks some people failed to click the link. (see above)
I DID NOT WRITE THE 'IRRESISTIBLE' paragraphs !
I copied/pasted the first post from the link. flirt

Quote:

His Needs, Her Needs
Habits for a Lifetime of Passion
(A 12 Lesson Course)

How can you experience a lifetime of passion
and fulfillment in your marriage?
By identifying the important emotional needs of you
and your spouse, and developing habits to meet them for each other.


Quote:

In this 12 lesson course, I lead you step by step through the process of becoming irresistible to each other:



Don't argue with me about what I posted. I am not the author.
Argue with Dr Harley, if you are so inclined.

NG ~ I appreciate your openness and your vulnerability.
Everyone has a dark side.

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Some people would never dare sgt pepper laugh r u a Beatles fan ?
That was just my quirky humour
Dr h knows too much to seriously question without data & evidence
He served me up on independent behavior a while back. blush

When bh is on lve between deployments it's like honeymoon time
Both wonderful and very frustrating we don't plan on tomorrow's too much
Today the now is about all we get
Wild intense times & wouldn't want to miss a thing incl the romance
hurray

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Sugar, your contribution that the absence of the top need for women might be more impactful than the others was spot on. Saying that aerobic life forms need oxygen, food, and water fails to convey the fact that oxygen deprivation has an immediate deleterious affect on sustainability far beyond that occasioned by the other two. Now where the he77 were you with that vital advice several years ago? (Just joshing, my friend...)

Markos, there is no red flag in my statement. Parsing the phrasing into "entering those compromising circumstances" from the concept of actually fulfilling desired ENs does NOT affect the end result. Yes, one of the vital safe-guards to be developed is recognizing the proximity of such situations, and veering off, but I consider that ability (in existence before finding MB) still a part of the reason I know myself to be immune to extra-marital complications.

All of us...can be trusted in some circumstances, and cannot be trusted in others.

Agreed! Keep me away from Double-chocolate Black Forest Cherry Cake when I'm allegedly on a diet! But marital issues? Nope, not me, not ever.

Sorry, Pep, for t/j'ing your thread.

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Couple of things:

Tom - glad that Char seems to be doing better. Last I heard it wasn't going so well and I haven't seen you around.

Melody - can you explain please exactly how you have any time at all for texts? Between posting here, and whatever day job you must have...? I'd fire you for sure, I bet you get nothing done! lol


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Originally Posted By: awsdaughter

Some people would never dare sgt pepper laugh r u a Beatles fan ?


I am an original Bealtemanic cool
I was one of those screaming girls cry
1965
August
San Francisco
The Cow Palace
Good memories

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Originally Posted By: NeverGuessed
Sugar, your contribution that the absence of the top need for women might be more impactful than the others was spot on. Saying that aerobic life forms need oxygen, food, and water fails to convey the fact that oxygen deprivation has an immediate deleterious affect on sustainability far beyond that occasioned by the other two. Now where the he77 were you with that vital advice several years ago? (Just joshing, my friend...)

Thank you for your kind words, NG. I like being told I'm "spot on"!

So now I'm on a roll grin, I could also say that the absence of the top need for men would work in the same way. If their single most important need is not being fulfilled, then they too will be unhappy. If my memory serves me right, Dr H says that, for men, this is SF. I have also heard a rumour that he says that if a wife delivers this need spectacularly, she can pretty much forget about needing to meet the others!

He is talking about ways for a spouse to be "irresistable", though, not ways to protect against an affair. I think if we see the issue of absent ENs as the reason for a spouse's affair, then their affair becomes our fault.

"Missing ENs" also does not account for the unhappy spouse that did not have an affair. Clearly there must be some other variable that makes one spouse in an unhappy marriage have an affair and the other spouse not.


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I KNEW it!!!

t/j

my Nan went to their concert in Melbourne with her Mum and my Pop went to it with his mum!!

The Festival Hall, Melbourne, 1964. Must of been like a ripper of a gig!!

Great that you have good memories laugh

We quite often get requests to do a beatle song like Sgt Peppers lonely hearts club band, and across the universe, with a little help from my friends and more often than not, something, at pub gigs. Still fun to dance to as well at parties and that. Did it last Sat night shhhhh but the twist is harder than it looks to do it right, so I didn't crazy

(I bet you got the wigs too, Nan will NEVER ans that one rotflmao )

t/j end grin

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