Hi Schlag

Just wanted to say I am seeing real progress on here with the radical honesty. Of course you still have a mountain to climb, but you look equipped for the climb now. I can see a difference anyway.

As a BS whose top need is radical honesty, this really stood out for me:



This is JUST how it feels to be lied to. Like you cant be trusted. Like you wont listen intelligently or react appropriately. Like you are some monster of a wife who must be lied to in order to be kept controlled.

I like this sentence because it makes you look pretty bad and it rings so TRUE. Thats RH.

Okay, my friend, you might now have insight into two things that are going to be vital to your future:

1 - Taking the easy way out ("I don't know"; "I can't remember") is NOT going to cut it.

2 - Doing it the right ("hard") way is going to be harder than anything you've ever done in your life.

You now have the answers to the question you were asked yesterday. Strap up, swallow hard, and give them to Amy.

She reads my thread so she already has them.

Okay, I think both of you have been advised NOT to read each other's threads, but I'll take your word for it that you two "know" better than we do.

Regardless, tell her in person. Part of the reason is for her to be able to react to you directly. Part of the reason is for you to see her reaction.

And stay off each other's threads! (Amy, I'm serious!)

I don't have much advice to offer, I was just very touched by your words above, that is exactly the way I feel about my FWH.

I still, after 2 years, wonder if I will wake up one day and just be so disgusted with it all that I throw in the towel. (those thoughts are fewer and farther between with time)

My H's only saving grace is the radical changes he has made. EP's, RA, etc.. He has become the man God intended for him to be. Not only for me, but for God(first), our kids and everyone else in his life.


I too had a similar experience. My FWH and I had only dated a couple of times when I went out w another guy, I merely kissed him and felt so guilty...like I was cheating. We [FWH and I] werent exclusive either.

I don't know what makes people react differently in that situation....up-bringing, environment, religious background...probably a combination of them all.

I can easily see how many a BS cannot deal with the pain of it all.

Keep up the good work. You are learning a lot here and getting your side of the street cleaned up.

Schlag, it is good to see your progress in thinking.

.

I wouldn't be so sure about that thing quoted. Dr Harley has said that we are all wired to have an affair under the right circumstances. And you have witnessed some serious movement from Amy's part towards a possible affair lately.

Keeping boundaries mean everything in marriage. Affairs are very easy to happen if you give in one thing after another. They may be tiny things, like not letting another one know about your whereabouts because your spouse has an important meeting and you don't want to bother him. Or not calling often enough because you forget, etc. "Circumstances", uh? No - lies.

People are prone to lie to themselves. I've read that approx 80% of their waking hours people are deceiving themselves. The day you crack this self-deception nut, is a good day for you.

Anyway, keep up the work.

Wow Mrs R, thank you. As a BW, I think an important penny has dropped about my WH's descent into waywardness. I noticed an increase in lies about silly things leading up to the affair. Now I see this was the start of boundaries slipping.

Sorry for the TJ Schlag.

lol no prob, Caracal. Glad to hear anybody getting help with their stuff. I have gotten plenty off other threads.

It's a shame everybody came down so hard on Amy in her thread - she ended up telling the player where she stood as far as not sleeping with anyone till she was divorced, and he vanished. She was thinking about posting last night about the terrible pain she's in but she didn't want to because everybody was so hard on her about the dating thing.

Anyway, back to my own issues... I am trying to figure out how to be there for Amy without causing more damage/pain. She says she wants me to get moved into the garage ASAP so she doesn't have to see me, but then last night she wanted me to be there for her and I wasn't because I disappeared to the garage. I'm having such a hard time learning what she wants from me. All I want to do is give her what she wants to heal from this and show her that I can learn how to be a good husband to her but I keep failing. I guess I should just go up to her every night when the kids go to bed and say "The kids are all in bed and I would love to spend time with you if you'd have me. Or if you need to talk. If you want to be alone, I'll go to my apartment." Is it just that simple?

The problem with us spending time together is then she just can't help but start talking about the painful things and try a 23rd time to get an answer to how I could do this to her except that I was a selfish, cheating a-hole. The problem is that that's the real answer. Telling her that's not who I want to be anymore doesn't mean anything.

Maybe she could take to heart Caracal's sig: "Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."

That's a shame? Why do you think it's a shame? Would it have been a good thing if this player had hung around?

Do you honestly think that people here should have approved her steps towards dating, Schlag? Why so?

If not, what should posters have done? Said nothing?

Please tell me what you think that posters did wrong, and then tell me why you keep not-so-subtly trying to tell people off for putting Amy straight, and trying to blame them for Amy's anger at you.

Schlag: the way we can help you is by motivating you to follow the plan. It's counterproductive for you to try to persuade us of anything, such as trying to persuade us we should've said something different to Amy.

Haven't heard you on MB radio again yet, unless you were on some day that I missed.

Well, I think it would be better for Amy to get some help with her pain than ignore her thread altogether. You can say that you disagree with what she's doing and why, but people calling her a wayward and saying it's the fastest inset of wayward fog ever is kind of over the top.

I wrote to Joyce on 8 December and received no response.

Schlag, appeasement does not work. You know yourself how strong the urge is, when you're low, and someone outside your marriage is paying you attention. Saying little or nothing, aka enabling, is not what we do here (or rather, the vets - I'm still learning).

Our first concern is Amy and I remain very concerned about her vulnerability to players like the guy you mention. For that reason I will not minimize or lie to her about the potholes she is waltzing towards. I am a BS myself, I know how tempted she is, how impaired her judgement of men is and how hurt she feels.

Amy is hurt because of you. I cannot really empathise with you what that feels like but I imagine it is a wretched feeling. I know how much you want to fix this instantly but it doesn't work like that. Amy needs time to figure out what she wants to do. If she wants to come back on the boards, she will come back. If she does we will carry on telling her whatever we believe she needs to hear in a straightforward way. We dont need to lull her in gently, she's a grown woman. If in the meantime we can scare away players, all to the good

Shlag you need to let go of the need to manage Amy, or to manage her through us. In the past you did this with lies, and now you want us to keep a lid on the truth. Thanks to MB she is getting honesty from you, and honesty from us. What she does with the info is up to her.

The business of this thread is what YOU are going to do. And it will benefit you no matter what happens in your marriage, because it will make you a better person

Why did you move into the garage? You see, she IS acting wayward. A TYPICAL wayward. She is in pain, as many waywards feel. She is trying to cake-eat, as many waywards do. She is trying to justify her actions by blame shifting, just like a typical wayward.

I think you need to Plan A her like a rockstar, just as we would tell any BS. Only difference is that you also need to amend for YOUR A's and deceit. It will be harder, but it can be done, if you follow THE PLANS. What plan are you in? Let Amy ruin your marriage because she is trying to get back at you for your deceit? No one has even remotely suggested that she need to stay married to you, to be quite honest. WE merely told her that becoming a wayward would not make her life better, but would in fact make it worse.

Dude, you do NOT belong in the garage. Move to a spare room, den, whatever, but not the garage. (Seriously, if you had a dog, would you wend your way to the archetypical dog-house"?) And if she insists you wear a hair-shirt, or beat yourself with a flail, refuse those as well.

You cheated on her; we all got that. Now you have to work to put things right. Eventually, this will involve doing the work to convince her that her best future revolves around keeping your union together, as husband and wife. That husband will have to have some stature of respect to be a full partner going forward, and having a history of extensive grovelling is unhelpful in that regard, especially given the rather disappointing initiatives she has been considering to effect your replacement.

That said, what have you done since the "hooker admission" of two days ago to discover what she needs, and how you can provide it? (NO, moving next to the weed-wacker is not what is meant!)

I'm going to reiterate what I said many many posts back. Your sin is not an excuse for Amy to do whatever she wants. This (IMO) is a type of cake eating. She gets you for all the "family" stuff... Baking cookies, wrapping presents, holding her when she wants you too, and then sends you off to the garage when she's done with you.

The way I see it, is that she is using you right now. Is she still trolling for a boyfriend on the dating sites? What is she doing after you go to the garage?

Honestly, I believe the reason she is hurting so much is because she is not trying to heal, but to hurt you for what you did.

I am in agreement with what others have posted.

CV

I see your point, but I believe as time goes on that she is healing more and wanting to hurt me less. Every day brings a different level of pain versus healing, but I believe that she wants to heal and she wants me to be a changed man she just can't allow herself to believe it yet, and rightfully so. I am just starting to learn how to be what I need to be for her. The desire is there now, but changing how I am there for her emotionally and how I communicate and my own coping mechanisms is going to take time, patience, perseverance, and hard work. But I have total faith that God can work a miracle of healing with us if I do my part.

Schlag, how is it going with you and Amy?