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I just did. She says she's spending a lot less energy and time worrying and talking to her friends about our crappy marriage like she used to, so she has some to spare for her new relationship without affecting our kids.
OK enough about this relationship. I can't do anything about it and it is distracting me from being the man I need to be. she will do what she wants to do and it's my job to show her what she has to choose from. This flailing around ain't doin' that.
Thanks guys.
Last edited by Schlag; 12/12/11 04:35 PM.
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She says she's spending a lot less energy and time worrying and talking to her friends about our crappy marriage like she used to, so she has some to spare for her new relationship without affecting our kids. 
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I say Schlag stay on your side of the fence. Clean up your mess, and let Amy clean up her messes.
Something I recommend you understanding is how "Lies by Omission" are lies, and they are as destructive and cruel as an outright lie.
Lies by omission are protective lies, and you should be fully aware how raising children to accept that as norm will thrust amples of pain on them for life.
Raise those children with honesty.
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Are you going to contact the Harleys?
Did your affair affect your children?
Do you think adultery is wrong?
Would you agree that "dating" while married is adultery?
You need to let her know that you do NOT agree with her committing adultery.
I don't care if you lied every moment of your marriage, or if you had affairs every other week, it is NEVER right to commit adultery. And for someone to do so after they find MB is awful.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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One thing is for sure - the best way to make her do something is to tell her she shouldn't be doing it so you guys aren't really helping the situation crapping all over her. She probably won't even be back here to read it. When you all tell her she's wayward she just talks about getting the divorce accelerated so she can be free of this marriage sooner. That's not what I want.
So Your advice on helping Amy recover is to let her have an affair and not call her out on it, because she will act like a child and do it anyway? That is utter nonsense. Please Stay off Amy's thread and work your own recovery Eric.
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How is it destructive to them if they don't know where she is going or who she is with? Erp a derp. Eric, was it destructive when no one knew what you were doing? CV
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How is it destructive to them if they don't know where she is going or who she is with? Erp a derp. Eric, was it destructive when no one knew what you were doing? CV
Whatever - I am concentrating on my own work on myself and being the best father and husband I can be. I love my wife and I am going to be her dream guy whether she ever wants me back or not. I am going to be the best father that I can possibly be from this day forward. Last night I prayed for Amy to be with whoever will make her happiest for the rest of her life. I hope with all my heart that ends up being me, but I gave it up to God because it might not be. And I meant it totally. Being entirely selfless is a pretty new thing to me. Right now there's more selfish than selfless but the new me is growing stronger every day.
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Amy wants me to leave. In order to let her and the kids stay in the house, I would have to find a place to stay on basically no money.
I don't mind this; I can live in a homeless shelter or something if they'll take me. But this will mean pretty much abandoning my kids. I don't know what kind of visitation or parenting I could have as a homeless person.
So do I just be homeless for them and let them think I've abandoned them so they can be comfortable? Or do I take responsibility as a father and only give Amy the amount she's entitled to and let her figure out her own life?
I love her and I don't want this.
She thinks she can't heal with me living in the home.
But it's going to be so much worse for all of us if this plays out.
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Wow, just when you think things can't get worse.
I now have an unknown former student telling my wife that I had an affair with a female student during my ROTC instructor days.
I had no affairs, emotional or physical, in any way with any students.
I don't understand why this is happening.
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Wow, just when you think things can't get worse.
I now have an unknown former student telling my wife that I had an affair with a female student during my ROTC instructor days.
I had no affairs, emotional or physical, in any way with any students.
I don't understand why this is happening. if she is a former student, how is she unknown? This is part of what everyone is trying to tell you... Consequences. None of this stuff ever stays secret, it grows and develops a life of it's own.
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if she is a former student, how is she unknown?
This is part of what everyone is trying to tell you... Consequences. None of this stuff ever stays secret, it grows and develops a life of it's own.
I did some unprofessional things as an instructor, but I never had any affair in any way, emotional or physical.
Last edited by Schlag; 12/15/11 10:34 AM.
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I did some unprofessional things as an instructor, but I never had any affair in any way, emotional or physical.[/color] Such as? Be specific, Shlag. Give real details here. Then give them to Amy and tell her it is as much as you can think of and you will take a poly to prove it or anything else. Voluntary honesty is what us BSs want. Especially the stuff that makes you look bad. Plus if you can point to and identify your poor boundaires as a an instructor this will tell her you are now more aware of them
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I did some unprofessional things as an instructor, but I never had any affair in any way, emotional or physical. Such as? Be specific, Shlag. Give real details here. Then give them to Amy and tell her it is as much as you can think of and you will take a poly to prove it or anything else. Voluntary honesty is what us BSs want. Especially the stuff that makes you look bad. Plus if you can point to and identify your poor boundaires as a an instructor this will tell her you are now more aware of them
One night after a dining in (formal dinner) another officer and I joined a bunch of the students on a party RV and were present while underage drinking was going on. We were also dancing with the students and I danced with one female student in an unprofessional manner. (Not grinding or dirty dancing, but up close to her) We also went to a club and everyone danced, though I didn't dance inappropriately with anyone there. It was just inappropriate that I was there. And uniform jackets and ties were removed in public which is a uniform no-no. The other officer was basically fired and I was reprimanded unofficially.
Also, I took video one day when I was teaching sailing because I was going to put together a recruiting video, and some of the students went swimming. Well, one of the females (an attractive one) was on the video in her swimsuit and I showed it to the other officer on the staff. Word got out and the students knew about this objectification of her, and so my reputation became that of a [censored]. Which was totally deserved. I apologized to the student involved and told her I'd erase the video.
Lastly, there was some kind of drunk comment made about the same student at another formal dinner at some point.
I've sent a message to that student through Amy via facebook apologizing again for breaking trust with her as her instructor, and for not living up to basic human decency.
But there was never any affair with any student.
If my wife talks to this alleged affair partner and the woman confirms an affair, I'm willing to do another poly on this. My last two didn't go very well for me but it's been awhile and alot of truth has come out so hopefully I'll be clean on this one. My wife doesn't even want to waste the money. She's just going to believe it and add it to the list of wrongs. But it's important to me that she knows I didn't sleep with any students. My list of offenses is horrid enough without adding things I didn't do.
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Plus if you can point to and identify your poor boundaires as a an instructor this will tell her you are now more aware of them
Last edited by Schlag; 12/15/11 04:37 PM.
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Schlag, Dr Harley has said in the chapter of PORH that: Reveal information about your personal history, particularly events that demonstrate personal weakness or failure. Obviously, you haven't told Amy ALL about your past. No event is living his own life by itself. The simple truth here is that there are still events that you have decided to keep secret.
Last edited by Mrs_Recon6mo; 12/16/11 04:51 AM.
Me, FWW: 43
Mr_Recon6mo, FWH: 44
DD20 and DS23
3 cats
Married 23 years, together 24
Divorcing
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Yesterday I passed a polygraph that I didn't have sex with any student. So this nightmare is behind us.
Now it's back to trying to help Amy heal.
Last night she was trying to make sense of how I could have sex with a prostitute and not feel horrendously, disablingly guilty at the time. I didn't really know what to say. Because I am a pig? Because I justified it to myself somehow? I'm not sure how I felt, really. It was 7 years ago and I just kind of buried it and moved on. She doesn't understand how I could do that either. Because the way she is, she couldn't function keeping a secret like that or knowing she had done that to me. I don't know how to explain to her how I did that. I don't know how to explain it to myself, let alone to her.
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Now it's back to trying to help Amy heal.
Really? Let's see how you did....
Last night she was trying to make sense of how I could have sex with a prostitute and not feel horrendously, disablingly guilty at the time.
I didn't really know what to say....I'm not sure how I felt, really....I just kind of buried it and moved on...I don't know how to explain to her how I did that...I don't know how to explain it to myself, let alone to her.
How much "help" do you think that crap provided?
Schlag, you can't "wish", "hope", or "pray" to effect her healing - you have to "work" for it. Are you familiar with the concept of "work" in this context, partner? In short it means setting a goal, developing a plan to achieve it, beginning to execute the plan, monitoring the progress toward your objective, adjusting/amending the plan if necessary, and deciding when appropriate that you have completed your goal. Then you look at where you are, pick a new goal and beginning again.
So, let's pick "Discovering why Schlag could pop a hooker without guilt" as your initial goal (because it has a high importance to Amy). Get to work. Develop your plan to reach that goal, amigo, and since you're a rookie at this, try bringing it here for review/critique. Sound like something you can do by Wednesday?
Or, continue to write self-sorry notes like this last one, right up until the dissolution decree.
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Goal:
Explain to Amy how I could have sex with a prostitute and go on living my daily life without being disabled by guilt.
Requirements:
- Figure out how much guilt I actually felt at the time
- Compare that guilt with what I should have felt
- When I have an answer, present it to her with the best communication and sensitivity possible
Well, what is guilt? A feeling of remorse over a wrongdoing. Remorse = deep and painful regret for wrongdoing. Regret = a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc.
So guilt is a feeling of deep and painful sense of loss, disappointment, or dissatisfaction over a wrongdoing.
At the time I slept with the prostitute I was in a very dark personal point of professional failure, and I did not reach out to Amy for comfort like I should have. I internalized it because I didn't want her to think less of me. I feared abandonment over anything else, so I didn't tell her the worst. I didn't tell her everybody at the ROTC unit thought I was a douche-bag. I told her that I decided to get out of the Navy because we had a daughter, not because I was so fat I couldn't pass the PRT (physical readiness test) and my career was going nowhere. I didn't trust her enough to lean on her when I needed her the most. So I acted out in ways that were destructive. One of them was seeking this excitement / stimulation of sex with someone else. It started with the two failed AFF attempts, which made me feel even worse about myself, and finally I just decided to pay for it. Of course having to pay for sex isn't exactly a self-esteem builder so that made me feel worse about myself too.
But what about the guilt? Since there was no way that Amy would ever know about it, I didn't consider there to be any damage done to her. There was no loss on her part because my undeveloped, immature, ungodly and juvenile sense of right and wrong only thought of it in terms of what you don't know can't hurt you. And I obviously didn't love or care about myself. I knew that what I did was wrong, but the loss to myself wasn't that great because I placed no value on myself. I was disappointed in myself, but the disappointment in myself for such massive professional failures so greatly overshadowed the personal moral failure that it just got buried with everything else.
Of course now, years later, when I'm starting to love myself again and I see the great pain this has caused Amy, I feel the guilt and regret much more. But like she always says, "I don't care that you feel it now. I wanted you to feel it THEN."
I wish I would have. Because if I were able, I may not have done it in the first place.
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Not bad for a first effort, Schlag. I will admit to being moderately impressed.
Let me summarize:
Causative factors:
Personal/professional failures led to a sense of personal inadequacy which could seemingly (erroneously) be alleviated by sexual pursuit/relief without the entanglements of personal commitments (therefore: hooker vs wife).
Ameliorative factors:
Amy would never know, so this was "harmless".
Okay you're about halfway there. Now for the painful part: Yes, you had come to believe Amy would not know, but you would, and you would know it violated your vows to her (as well as some blatantly obvious health/safety issues). Give yourself the reasons why you ignored those.
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Okay you're about halfway there. Now for the painful part: Yes, you had come to believe Amy would not know, but you would, and you would know it violated your vows to her (as well as some blatantly obvious health/safety issues). Give yourself the reasons why you ignored those.
I'd like to say that I did not believe in God and my morality was only as far as my actions affected people. But I have gone seeking outside my marriage since I have believed in God.
My new pastor told me that in his 30 year' experience he has learned you can't fix yourself just on the spiritual side. You have to fix the personal and mental health sides as well. Two years ago I only went the spiritual route, and eventually failed after 6-9 months. This time I am doing it the right way.
Last edited by Schlag; 12/19/11 06:47 PM.
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