Yeah the IM is not a therapist, preacher, father or counsellor

They should mention this to WH, and if they have time, they can text back exactly what they are going to pass on to you

If WH is trying to use IM to justify his actions, they need to go to IM school, and understand thier role

Let WH talk to Steve Harley with his possible boo hoos, and tell your IM to shut him down

That made me chuckle, so thank you for that.

I think the 'conversations' were more like
MIL:"Are you sure about this?"
WH: "Yes, me and Maryse are through, we had been for a long time. OW has nothing to do with it."
MIL: "Well, if you are sure...".

MIL and FIL are not very good at confrontation (I guess that's where J got it from..) so I very much doubt that they really tried to open his eyes.
If only they knew as much about affairs as I do now, they'd see that J is totally following the script of the wayward.

Carcal, what I would suggest is that you let your IM know that you don't want to know ANYTHING about what WH is doing, other than the things that are sent through to you. So if your WH spends hours composing his rantings, you hear nada. Not even that he sent a message.

Your IM seems to have been quite good up until that minor slip. If she needs some help, give her my email addy(the first one you got), and I can help her through things if she needs them.

Yeah Scotty what you said is right, and she should not pass on the tripe and crap WH is spinning.

I think Caracal is concerned with WH spinning the storys, and IM just nodding in agreement, and not being confrontatioal about them.

That is where IM needs to shut him down, and say she is not interested, and "Just the facts please"

That way IM does not become part of the woe is me saga he spins, even inadvertantly.

And yeah, waywards will find a way to justify what they do, because nobody stopped them from doing it.

There of course needs to be boundaries, but WSs are going to spew garbage at the IM. I know that my WH thought that his emails were being sent directly to me. I know from other people that the WSs in those cases thought the same thing. Even saying things like, "What do we need a 3rd party for, when they are just forwarding what I write?"

It kind of a given when being an IM that you are going to get justifications, and fog-babble. They are going to manipulate the situation any way they can. Attempting to get the IM to understand them. All that garbage.

Yeah, and part of the temptation of the BS is to want the IM to school the wayward

I know Scotty, and I know it is enabling to listen to a waywards fogbabble and not call them on it too

An IM is a tough job, when put on that position, that's why most IMs are not liked by the wayward, especially when the IM is a realistic and responsible person, which is what they need right?

"But, but, but, me, me, me!"

Sometimes cold and just the facts is the best medicine, and the best role they can play.

All I am saying, is caracal should be confidant that WH is not able to spin crap to her, and that all she will relate is what is pertinent, and she will not take sides. She could tell him she is not a marrige counsellor, and he should talk to a guy who is

That is of course, if he has the gonads to do that, which in most cases, they don't

You following this Glove oil? What's your opinion?

The IM should be a responsible no nonsense person who only passes info to her, and will not get involved with listening to WH and giving advice, or handholding. They could easily adopt a mantra, "that is something you need to discuss with a professional, this is what I will relate to your wife"

It's part of good communication and clarity

Hope yor IM knows this caracal, and it is important that she is Freind to marriage, but his personal counsellor and buddy? Nah, not so much

Thanks, CP... I've got no experience with IM situations & haven't really read any of the original MB material on them, so I'll defer to others on this one.

Ah , GO, that of course is wise

I was asking you to second guess right there with me the thoughts and intentions And mindset of her WH

Of course that is a rookie mistake, just because we have both experienced being a WH, as you know the mind can be slippery, and while you are wrestling with one thing, there can be 5 others escaping attention

To quote Scotty in her sigline, "sometimes the best response to stupid is nothing",( sorry if I misquoted it Scotty)

I just feel for caracal, and the aloneness she must feel also, because of how my wife was enabled mixing God and using scripture to facilitate denial of her emotional issues

I literally went to battle trying to set her free from this group, involved myself in the church, thier idol worship of thier leader, all convinced I would win her heart, and would pull out of her own deception, that God would wink at her drinking and drug abuse, and her bitterness, that came from the ignorance, of her simple minded family of alcoholics

They eventually won, the slippery skanks.
Oh yeah, they hid behind it was her free will choice, and how we are all inherently evil in nature, but left out the most important thing, we have that choice every day, to change our heart and minds, and we are alone except for God when we do that, but we are in the best company then also are we not?

Sympathy for the devil, what a draw, and God understands, but the Devil brings the consequences

But like Scotty said in essence, sometimes the best response to stupidity is for them to hear crickets, and jimeny cricket, ( the conscience?), is where we are alone, but not really, if we are honest.

I feel cararcal at least deserves to know her IM is not buying into WH bullcrap, or enabling it in any way

Beauty of a true Plan B with a superb IM is that Caracal wouldn't even know what WH was writing. See? That's what I am trying to press here. That Caracal need only suggest that her IM message me about such things, and I will help guide her through it, so as not to allow Caracal to know anything that her WH may or may not be saying.

As an IM, I have actually had a full fogbabble email which contained no info to pass onto the BS, so I said NOTHING to the BS. There is a constant that you need to say to the WS where you reiterate that you will only pass on pertinent information about finances and such. What the WS deems as pertinent is not what gets passed on. They are not a good judge at all.

BTW, I get no props for the quote, it's Schoolbus's, hence the SB. She's a genius with words.

Carcal,

Don't feel that no one sticking up for you is an Aussie man thing, no one stuck up for me with WH, including females and sons! It is the old thinking that someone having an A is due to the spouse not doing something senario, a popular view everywhere!

ba

Yup I agree Scotty, specially with the reinterating the statement that all that would be passed is pertinent info

Although SB might have said it, you do get credit for recgnizing it's wisdom. Besides, we are all plaugerists at best

Two things. The not standing up is not a gender based thing. In fact, the guys who did offer to stand up where essentially told to sit down.

Second, it's a character thing and folks of bad character are equally represented in both men and women. After all, my MIL failed to stand up to my XWW and condemn her daughter's affair. Ditto for our mutual friends, her co-workers, etc.

So I don't get where this is an appropriate male bashing event. Seems to me bad character is not a gender specific trait.

Yeah it goes both ways too, your wife cheats on you because she doesn't get something at home.

Many times it's being a full-time babysitter

It is a character thing, and not a male female role playing failure.

Like it or not, women have some expectation of being protected, by the men in their lives. I agree that woman also should stand up to the affair, but when you are a BW, and your own father, brother, etc doesn't stand up for you, you feel like they don't honour or respect you enough to care and protect you.

Just stating a fact, not bashing the whole gender. I firmly believe that their are men of good character out there, you see them on these boards all of the time.

And sometimes a woman, while she says she wants to be protected by the men in her life, will eschew that protection and go ahead and have her affair.

Sometimes that protection is from themselves as well. After all, if your brother or father doesn't tell you your affair is going to hurt you, and you won't believe your husband when he tells you the same, then what?

It just comes across as an inconsistent blame shift. The post that got me going had examples of men stepping up to protect, only to be told their services were not welcome. Followed by a bunch of really bad gross generalizations.

We are given a mixed message. We are told to listen to the feelings, don't try to fix things.

But when we do that, we are told we should protect, etc.

Decide! Which is it? Are women mature adults that can take care of themselves and want their husbands and fathers to be there emotionally, or are they in need of protection and even though they say they don't want us to fix things, you really do?

I see protection as the same as fixing, and that's generally a DJ, as in it implies she can't handle her own stuff.

Gotta agree with you scotty, as the male of the species is generally the strongest in nature, you would think they would exhibit that would you not?

Since children with strong male figures do better in life, and also are stronger and more secure, you can argue that also

But I have seen females have more gonads than men, and men care more deeply for others than women, so it's not gender related at all in our character, but nature is king, and men are supposed to be strong, self confidant, and in control of their emotions

Yeah and there are women who will take advantage of that, and act like baby's, oh the drama of the vanity and acting like a spoiled brat. It's just so exciting

Same goes for men who are lost and hurt puppies, once momma cleans and licks the wounds they off to conquer the world, may I add, one that has been allready been overcome, by someone who loves us more than we will ever know

Yeah it is in character that we find love, and the reflection of acting, not reacting, in well thought out actions and words, given freely and with no strings, but the price has been paid allready, and we didn't pay it, have no claims to it, all we can do is honor it

But selfish people, wanting to take all the credit, and control love, are controlled themselves by that blindness, and the brain chemistry that makes them think it's all them, and they are such a special snowflake

"Me me me, look at me and what I did"

Yeah now wipe yourself ok?

Yes you are right, but Caracal and the other BWs on this thread were talking about their experiences. WWs were not the subject. How a BW wishes to be supported was the topic. This is Caracals thread after all, so there are no WWs to speak of on this thread!



I think you must be talking about my post, where I said I was 'doing a little better' because I had the support of the men in my life. They have shunned my WH, they arent his buddies any more. So although I dont need violence from them, I do need their support. So you have misunderstood. I gratefully accepted this support. And how my descripton of them helping me out can be described as a 'generalization' I have no idea.



Every BS who has exposed gave a very UNMIXED message - 'Support me and support my marriage'.

And the women who posted in response to Caracal are very capable of taking care of themselves.

But everyone needs support and to have their loved ones stand behind them in their efforts.

Wow, I go offline for a couple of days and have started a men vs women debate. This was not my intention. I can accept responsibility for some generalisations in my posts, but others I disagree with. As Indie says, this is MY thread and based on MY experiences and feelings.

I do clarify that this is my experience at the moment. My feelings of being let down by the men closest to me. I know this is not all men and there are rightous men out there. I am sorry if the post caused offence as it was not intended to.

I do appreciate people questioning me though, as it makes me think about my responses and determine if they are fair or unfair. Right or wrong. Thank you.

It wasn't intended as a male-bashing event, just venting about the males in my life at the moment that I feel have let me down. I agree that bad character is not gender specific. The amount of BH's is testament to that. Enlightened, your experience is testament to that.

If you are referring to me, I disagree with this. My experience is that the majority of men in MY life have not stood up, despite my encouragement. In my post, one man, my brother, wanted to stand up, when he was drunk. I did tell him to sit down (he was drunk). A drunken conversation did not seem the best circumstances to confront WH. Once sober, my brother never raised it again. Should I have raised it with my brother? Maybe. No-one can read minds.

My father... the only reason he stood up was that I dragged him upright, forced the phone in his hand, and then later heard the "oh, I see" response to WH's fogbabble.

Again, I am not equating my experience with ALL men. The list on MB of men who are rightous is looong.