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MelodyLane & Marcos-thanks for clarifying that for me.
MrNiceGuy - our date was great. We had a nice meal, then went into the dance/club area and we talked a bit and danced a bit-it was really nice. It has been a very long time since we have given each other this kind of attention.
Did day #2 of the Sexual Aversion exercises. I recorded in my journal-think I did well with it and used the relaxation techniques. I think one more day will be good in the step 1 exercise and then I will move on to step 2.
Americajin - I just wanted to let you know that I am re-reading all of your posts. There is so much information in them, I cannot take it all in at one time. Thank you for such well thought-out posts. My husband appreciated them also.
Ok, so here is my plan to move us forward and get the needed UA time:
Take a 6-week leave-of-absence from my job
Make Dr appt for H for consult for vasectomy
Make appt with my coach to rearrange my training sessions
Come up with doable plan to reduce my work hours when I return to work
Post ad/conduct interviews for Housekeeper/Nanny
Call construction companies to come give quotes to finish 2 basement bedrooms (so we then have 2 bedrooms upstairs for the babies & toddler to move in to).
Wean toddler -30 days
Wean babies - 60-90 days
H filled out his questionnaires yesterday and gave them to me.
Not suprisingly, I got two big fat zeros on his top 2 needs.
Lots of LoveBusters I need to work on...
Any thoughts or suggestions on my plan?
Thanks again for all you help.
H 40
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You are doing great! I think you are organized and disciplined enough to pull this off, RC. You catch on fast and are pro-active. You are thinking of ways to arrange your life in a way that will make it possible to fall in love again. You have a plan to cut back on work hours and you have a plan to get the babies out of your room.   Did you tell me you ordered the books? When you get them, I would start with Lovebusters. At the same time, you will want to start using the UA worksheet to schedule your UA time. Another great resource is the MB radio show here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.htmlYou can listen to the shows for 24 hours after each broadcast AND listen to the archives free in the archives section. You will learn alot, very quickly from listening to the show. And if you have a question for Dr Harley, you can email him and he will answer your question for free. What are your H's top needs?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane - thanks for the support.
Yes, I ordered His Needs Her Needs and LoveBusters and I was going to ask which we should do first, so thanks for antcipating that. Books should be arriving soon-I think they were supposed to get here yesterday.
We got in 5 hours UA last night and 2 hours this morning!
We will check out those links to the radio broadcasts too.
My husband's top needs are sex & affection.
Thanks
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Not a vet here, but being a Mom of 8 who breastfed kids for years, and had them in our bed, etc., I wanted to speak to the sexual desire issue. I never developed an aversion, but I wanted you to know that once they were all weaned and in their own beds. my desire for SF went way up. I believe this is partly from getting more rest, more time with dh, and hormonal changes. BF reduces desire in many women. Weaning along with following the program should be very helpful!
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RC,
Just want to join the chorus here.
Not only are you proactive, but you seem excited to do this! That's awesome.
I don't know if anyone liked the "why women leave men" article to you, but I'm certain it would make sense to you.
The reason? Neglect!
The thing is, you had developed a lifestyle that contributed to that neglect.
Kudos to you for recognizing that!
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Thank you for your encouragement HoldHerHand.
wonderingif - thanks for the input on the breast feeding. Good to know. I usualy breastfeed mine for 2.5 to 3 years, so weaning the toddler (20 months) is a big change for us.
The babies (twins 10 months) are even harder as they were preemies and are only just now 9.5 pounds-they need that breastmilk! So that is why weaning them will be 60-90 days out.
Yes, I am hoping with weaning them all there will be an improvement in my interest in sex.
Thanks
H 40
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I am logging out now for the week-end.
Merry Christmas to all of you who have responded to me on this thread. I thank you all for all the help, support & encouragement that I have received here.
Blessings to you and your families
Thanks
RC
H 40
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I have completed Day 6 of the Sexual Aversion exercises. On Day 4 I moved to Step 2 in the program. This is the step where I am supposed to think about sex with my husband. This step is not going as smoothly for me-I am having to stop a lot and do the relaxation techniques. However, I am moving forward - I did better on Day 6 than Days 4 & 5.
We have had to go back to square one with my plans (listed several posts above). I did not POJA the plans with H and he is not on board, so we need to sit down and work on this asap.
Our UA time has been good over the holiday week-end and we are both enjoying the time we spend together.
I have lots to work on, as H identified lots of areas that I LB him and where I need to meet his needs. He put a lot of thought & time into filling out his questionaires. I am just struggling a bit with it all-it seems overwhelming.
H has read a lot on this site now. I believe he has a better grasp of the concepts than I do.
RC
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I am on Day 8 of the Sexual Aversion exercises. Still on Step 2.
The books I ordered have still not arrived, but H & I both received Nooks for Christmas. So we have His Needs Her Needs on our Nooks and are working our way through the book in our UA time-just finished Chapter 4. We were not able to get LoveBusters in this format, so we still don't have that one.
Yesterday we had our first try using POJA. We were successful in resolving a couple of issues.
My six week leave-of -absence starts next week. We plan to use this time to jump start our UA time and research possibilities for ether a different job or reduced working hours for me.
We have also posted an ad for a Nanny/Housekeeper. This will enable us to get the UA time we need after I go back to work.
We will POJA the other items on the list a couple at a time as time allows. Right now, we do not POJA these things during UA time as it is somewhat stressful. So far our UA time has been really good and we are already feeling better towards each other. Reading the book together helps too-lots of good information.
I am still guilty of LB'ing H, but he is calling me on it consistantly, so I am gaining awareness. Also after reading Chapter 4 of HNHN I am determined to change the way I behave towards him.
We had a horrible negative feed-back loop set up regarding affectionate & sexual touch. I am hoping that H agreeing not just to no sex, but no touch during this time will help break that loop. Then we can establish new (and healthier) habits.
H is being very patient and gracious with me -I am very thankful for that.
RC
Last edited by Raging_Calm; 12/29/11 12:37 PM. Reason: Typo
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You are doing great!  I am still guilty of LB'ing H, but he is calling me on it consistantly, so I am gaining awareness. Also after reading Chapter 4 of HNHN I am determined to change to way I behave towards him. How about doing some select articles about Lovebusters in your lessons today? Plugging those holes will make your efforts at meeting needs worthwhile, so I would focus on ending lovebusters ASAP. You can also download the lovebusters questionaire, take it, and exchange it. It is in the questionaire section. Smart thinking to not practice the POJA in your UA time. Dr Harley does suggest learning how to use POJA in the grocery store while shopping as one way to avoid fights. My H and I did have a huge fight in the produce section but most people do not. Keep up the good work!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane - Thanks for your helpful response. Good Idea! I will look up a couple of articles about LoveBusters and print out for us to look at tonight. We have already printed and filled out the LB questionaires and exchanged them.
My issue is awareness. I am ashamed to say that I am so used to speaking to my H in a disrespectful manner that I am not even aware that I am doing it. Working on that.
Thanks for the input.
RC
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My issue is awareness. I am ashamed to say that I am so used to speaking to my H in a disrespectful manner that I am not even aware that I am doing it. Working on that. Join the club, friend! I was just reading my post to Dr Harley - from 2007 - about our first attempt at using the POJA. It evolved into a fight and I cringe reading how disrespectful I was back then! I will post our first attempt at the POJA. It was real crazy. I am amazed at how far we have come from that point. It is like night and day now! Hi Dr. Harley, we are struggling with the implementation of POJA. I knew this would be a problem for me because of my penchant for independent behavior. [I scored a 20 on your test and DH scored a 5] But he seems to continually engage in angry outbursts. Over micky mouse stuff, usually related to money, even though we make a good living and are financially comfortable.
Can you look at this dialogue, which happened in the grocery store today, and tell me how this should be done? This is the 2nd week in a row he has exploded in the grocery store. You had mentioned learning POJA skills in the grocery store and it is not going well!
Mel: does a salad sound good to you for dinner?
DH: that's fine
We approach the produce section and DH picks up a head of lettuce
Mel: I had planned on getting kale, romaine or spinach because there is no nutritional value in lettuce
DH: says nothing
MEL: grabs a bag of shredded romaine lettuce
DH: I REFUSE TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR A BAG OF LETTUCE!!! [it is $2.99 whereas the head of lettuce is $.89] PUT IT BACK!!
Mel, horrified and embarrassed at this outburst, tries to ignore him because she can't believe he is acting so disrespectfully over $2.99
DH follows her and says again: "MEL, PUT THAT BACK!! I REFUSE!!"
I take the salad dressing I am carrying, slam it into the cart and say "that's it, I am done" and leave the store. He follows me out to the car with "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you can go back in and get the groceries. I will stay out here and leave you alone."
We had a similar scene the week before where he went into a rage over tortillas. I tossed 2 packages into the cart and then decided to add another. [we had company coming] He pitched a fit and demanded I put back the 3rd package.
Dr. Harley, just so you know, I am 50 years old, have a successful career, and am financially comfortable, and can damn well afford tortillas and romaine lettuce.
Every time he has one of these meltdowns over micky mouse stuff, I can hardly stand him for a week. What do you suggest? MelodyLane: There are two separate issues that should be addressed in your marriage: angry outbursts and independent behavior. The more important of the two is the angry outbursts.
The trigger for your husband's angry outburst is your independent behavior. It's the reason for his angry outburst, but it's no excuse. Your husband should attend anger management training until he can control his anger under all circumstances, regardless of how frustrating they may be to him. My position on this issue is repeated throughout my books, articles and radio show. Anger solves no problems -- they create new ones.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ironically, Dr Harley mentioned this fight on his radio show yesterday. He told Joyce he had a client who had a fight in the produce section. She said "REALLY??"  He said "Really!"  Here is my subsequent post 8 months later: Hi Dr. Harley, I wanted to give you an update on how well your advice has worked. We are somewhat surprised at how different things are now compared to the past. The changes we have made in IB and AO have had a domino effect and are impacting other emotional needs in a positive way. In the past, my H would blow up about once a month, usually in response to my IB and then I would withdraw. I have to admit I was pretty bad, though.
He has not had an angry outburst since you told him that [I think he was SHOCKED to be told he was having an AO], mostly because he is now relaxed around me. He is relaxed around me because I am not "surprising" him with regular bouts of IB. We POJA most of our spending so he doesn't worry all the time, and he gets to rathole money every month. [he loves to save money]
This change has led to him meeting my need for admiration, affection and my willingness to meet his for RC because he is so much more pleasant to be around.
The key, indeed, was learning to POJA in the grocery store. Our visits to the grocery store today are pleasant and enjoyable. We know pretty much what we want and what is acceptable to the other so there is no longer fireworks. This has expanded to all other areas of our life.
Thanks, Mel
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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RC, it was AMAZING to me how one lovebuster led to others and made the environment so unpleasant that it impacted our entire relationship. And when we eliminated those major lovebusters it had a positive domino effect on everything else. In my marriage, eliminating 2 lovebusters, IB and AO's and learning to negotiate made the most dramatic difference. That, and the practice of "flashing" my husband, which he so loves. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MelodyLane - thanks for those quotes and stories-lots of insight there. The grocery store fight is too funny!
After reading all that, one of H's issues is a little clearer to me. He had initialy placed what he called "not feeling heard" as being part of his EN of Intimate Conversation (his #3 EN). Now I am thinking it has more to do with my Independent Behavior...
Thanks
RC
Last edited by Raging_Calm; 12/29/11 01:17 PM. Reason: Typo
H 40
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My issue is awareness. I am ashamed to say that I am so used to speaking to my H in a disrespectful manner that I am not even aware that I am doing it. Working on that. Join the club, friend! I was just reading my post to Dr Harley - from 2007 - about our first attempt at using the POJA. It evolved into a fight and I cringe reading how disrespectful I was back then! I will post our first attempt at the POJA. It was real crazy. I am amazed at how far we have come from that point. It is like night and day now! Hi Dr. Harley, we are struggling with the implementation of POJA. I knew this would be a problem for me because of my penchant for independent behavior. [I scored a 20 on your test and DH scored a 5] But he seems to continually engage in angry outbursts. Over micky mouse stuff, usually related to money, even though we make a good living and are financially comfortable.
Can you look at this dialogue, which happened in the grocery store today, and tell me how this should be done? This is the 2nd week in a row he has exploded in the grocery store. You had mentioned learning POJA skills in the grocery store and it is not going well!
Mel: does a salad sound good to you for dinner?
DH: that's fine
We approach the produce section and DH picks up a head of lettuce
Mel: I had planned on getting kale, romaine or spinach because there is no nutritional value in lettuce
DH: says nothing
MEL: grabs a bag of shredded romaine lettuce
DH: I REFUSE TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR A BAG OF LETTUCE!!! [it is $2.99 whereas the head of lettuce is $.89] PUT IT BACK!!
Mel, horrified and embarrassed at this outburst, tries to ignore him because she can't believe he is acting so disrespectfully over $2.99
DH follows her and says again: "MEL, PUT THAT BACK!! I REFUSE!!"
I take the salad dressing I am carrying, slam it into the cart and say "that's it, I am done" and leave the store. He follows me out to the car with "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you can go back in and get the groceries. I will stay out here and leave you alone."
We had a similar scene the week before where he went into a rage over tortillas. I tossed 2 packages into the cart and then decided to add another. [we had company coming] He pitched a fit and demanded I put back the 3rd package.
Dr. Harley, just so you know, I am 50 years old, have a successful career, and am financially comfortable, and can damn well afford tortillas and romaine lettuce.
Every time he has one of these meltdowns over micky mouse stuff, I can hardly stand him for a week. What do you suggest? This story never gets old.
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Ok, so here is my plan to move us forward and get the needed UA time:
Take a 6-week leave-of-absence from my job
Make Dr appt for H for consult for vasectomy
Make appt with my coach to rearrange my training sessions
Come up with doable plan to reduce my work hours when I return to work
Post ad/conduct interviews for Housekeeper/Nanny
Call construction companies to come give quotes to finish 2 basement bedrooms (so we then have 2 bedrooms upstairs for the babies & toddler to move in to).
Wean toddler -30 days
Wean babies - 60-90 days
Thanks again for all you help. I don't have a whole lot to add to the excellent advise you're receiving, but the line from your plan that I bolded above stood out to me and since no one has mentioned it, I thought I would ask. Is it possible that you fear getting pregnant again and that is contributing to you not wanting to have sex with your H? H4U
Me-BH 51 FWW-51
Three sons, S28 from first marriage, S23 and S19
A started Mar 07
D-day 9-4-07
NC 4-08
Recovered Nicely.
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[
This story never gets old. Hard to believe I was so bad! Dr Harley mentioned this on his radio show yesterday. It is right about at 5:00 on this clip: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3479
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hopeforus - You are exactly right, I am terrified of getting pregnant again. although it is not the entire reason for the problem of me not wanting sex, it is certainly a large contributing factor.
We will be POJA'ing this issue this week-end.
We are going out on another date tonight!
With all this UA time, I am starting to feel like a spoiled princess. H has never showered me with this much of his attention in our entire marriage.
I am starting to feel guilty that I am not meeting his top 2 needs right now. I am doing well (according to him) on EN #'s 3 & 4
We read the first chapter of LoveBusters last night (found it on this site). Ugh-we had an incident almost exactly as described in the example. No wonder I am so messed up.
Continuing with the Sexual Aversion exercises. Still on Step 2-doing a little better each day and recording in my journal.
Still not doing so well with my LoveBusters to H. I need to come up with a better plan to resolve this or he will be getting fed up of me.
Tomorrow is my last day at work for six weeks. We plan to spend at least 4 hours a day for UA time. I will spend the rest of my days researching options for work and time with the children.
RC
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Hard to believe I was so bad! Tell that to the folks whose LB$ you ain't fillin! Seriously, though. I would say the best aspect of that, sorry to say, is you getting busted on IB! And not because it's you, per se, but because it's every poster here and rages about how terrible their spouse is! We have NO CLUE as to the horrors our perfect behinds are unleashing upon our marriages! /end t/j
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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