Mortorman, I cannot disagree with that.

Dr. Harley preaches implementing all of his concepts to prevent an A, as one concept can or does compliment another. His ideas creates a web of protection for a marriage.

WW has poor boundaries, this is true. If this doesn't or can't be changed, then what else is there. Dr Harley admits we all are predesposed to have an A, despite excelent boundaries or poor boundaries. If we had continued to practice what we had learned perhaps things would be different. Yes we must/ she must work on her boundaries, but the rest is just as important.

Actually, that is NOT what he preaches! Yes, he says we are predisposed to adultery...all of us. What protects us from that? UA? Nope. Meeting ENs? Nope.

Boundaries!!

Look, a marriage can survive not meeting ENs. It can survive not giving each other adequate time together. It can survive inattention. It can survive fights.

It CANNOT survive when at least one of the parties has no boundaries.

So, while all of those things are important...without boundaries, all of those things are meaningless. If she will never institute the boundaries needed...then there truly is no hope for the marriage. None!

Senningpa, let me elaborate....

If I am predisposed to adultery, why did I not go out and sleep with someone when all of this was going on 7-10 years ago? I mean, not only were my needs NOT being met, but I was actively being destroyed by my wife. I wasnt getting any UA. Why did I not do what she was doing?

Boundaries!

If I lower my boundaries, even for a second...then ANYTHING can happen!!

And if you know my story, I did lower my boundaries on at least one occasion, and if it wasnt for the folks here kicking me in the pants...I would have EASILY fallen into a mess.

So, please never think that Dr. Harley believes that doing all of those things will affair-proof your marriage. Why?

Because it is like a fish tank. The boundaries are the glass. If there is no glass, then you can poor all of the water you want into the thing...and it isnt going to stay...it just ends up all over the floor.

Mel,
You are only looking at her working conditions. Yes it isn't good. We are working on that, believe me. It has been ongoing process, but we are getting there. The other EPs are in place and currently in practice! She has done well in this area IMO. This was explained many times, not alot of jobs etc, we cannot afford to drop ship an change in a day, especially in our current financial situation. Not trading marriage for finances as some have suggested, but trying to be smart about the change that is needed as to prevent further damage to our situation buy killing our finances.

He doesn't say that at all. All the need meeting in the world will not compensate for poor boundaries. If you do a good job of meeting your wife's needs and are spending 15 hours of UA time, all of that is for naught if she is out trolling for action during the daytime while you are at work. BUT..she can't troll for action IF YOU ARE WITH HER. And she can't troll for action if she works with WOMEN.

As long as you are not with her when she goes out, she can and will troll for action. As long as she works with all men she will have opportunities each and every day.

Fish tank! You are pouring water into a tank with no glass. Until she puts up the boundaries and removes herself from ANY situation that could lead to a repeat of affairs...namely being around and befriending men...then you have no glass on the tank.

And pretty soon, you will notice that the floor is all wet yet again!

Point taken Mortorman, thanks,

Her working conditions are the ENVIRONMENT that led to her affair. You work opposite shifts which gives her the freedom to chase men all day. And then she has the freedom to chase men all night at her job. So no, EPs are *NOT* in place. You have to change the conditions that led to the affair. THAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE.

I don't know what it means to say you are "working on that" when there is no plan at all. Hope is not a plan.

Actually, SusieQ's WH's postings are filled with classic multi-affair thinking errors.


He wrote this AFTER he supposedly learned MB after getting caught the first time, years earlier. His entitlement was massive. His lamenting was all "me me me" focused.

Some of you know I am interested in internal vs external 'locus of control' personality styles. I suspect Chris1972, and most repeat offenders, can only 'see' how outside pressures caused them to behave badly. Lack of personal responsibility might be a life-long personality style.

LINK to locus of control discussion

Repeat offender thinking ~~~> "Why implement MB strategies to protect the marriage when the real cause of adultery is out of my control?"

I am taking over this thread, and It is a usefull thread for many, so I am going to quit.

I apoligize. I will start posting on my own thread.

Actually, it is relevant, senningpa. Why? Because your situation is a classic case of what this thread is about.

There are two parts. The first is the repeat offender, when a BS wants to save the marriage. That is your deal.

The second is a repeat offender when the BS is unsure or is walking...but the WS wants to save it finally.

So, there is no problem with your stuff being here as your case is one of the two!

I think it is an excellent case study in the reasons why marriages suffer repeat affairs. Harley is right when he says:


When a marriage does not recover from an affair, because the BS has set the bar so low, repeat affairs are often the result. BECAUSE the wayward fog never wears off. He just stumbles along until he finds the next affair.

There's that phrase "work on" again. The same one I used to use when I said I was "working on" my angry outbursts, but nothing changed, and my marriage didn't get any better, either. I couldn't have actually told you what I was doing to "work on" it, either, which should've been a clue that "work" was the wrong word to use.

"Do or dont do...there is no TRY." Yoda

My two cents:

If my wife had another affair, my response would be an immediate, pitch-black plan B to shepherd me through the divorce process, then would never speak to her or acknowledge her existence again. I would not forgive or reconcile through a repeat affair.

I do not post on threads dealing with multiple affairs because I have nothing to offer. I can't understand why anyone would want to reconcile under such circumstances.

At the same time, I keep reading in an attempt to understand. To date, any level of understanding why someone submits themselves to such abuse eludes me.

Yes, warhorse...I understand. And I have been one of those persons where there has been repeated abuse.

Should I have ever gone full Plan D...then yes, I would have made it so my wife and I would have never communicated directly again. Ever. I am with you on that.

But I have learned on here, and through my own experiences, that things are not that simple at times. There are many things that enter the equation that cloud what needs to be done.

Are you saying that we could all have an affair, despite excellent boundaries?

If so, that is not what Dr. Harley says.

Several weeks ago I encouraged you to call Dr. Harley himself, and I notice you didn't take advantage of the opportunity. It seems to me you could really benefit from a clearer understanding of what he says.

Senn, I have already posted to you several times that I have spoken to Dr Harley about my serial cheating STBX WH and that his advice was to focus in on making lifestyle/environment changes but you seem really resistant to this.




Actually Dr H said this to me:

"It is the conditions that have more to do with unfaithfulness than, say, a bad marriage or the fact that ENs are not being met..."

He later tells me that my STBX could be considered an addict and that for someone like this you take away the opportunity, you control the environment to such an extent that it is impossible to cheat. Take a listen, about 5 minutes in.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3009

Marcos, "I try but never could", point taken. I jump on the WW when she uses these types of phrases, and I deserve the same.

To be honest, I know all to well my WW has a major boundary issue. Yet I have little knowledge in how to gauge her improvements in this area. We discuss it and "work" on it, but only by her actions can I gauge or grade her improvemets. Any ideas?

We have a book titled Boundaries and have been reading it (actually have two copies). It is Christian based, does not spacifically apply to affairs, but does have some usefull tips and ideas in it.
I know how my boundries apply to me, and how I have maintained throughout the years without having an A, but how without time can I know if she has changed or is improving in this area. She could be talking the talk, but without the walk means nothing to me.

You guage her improvements by being there WITH HER. If you are WITH HER she can't cheat. YOU REMOVE THE OPPORTUNITIES. For example, if you are WITH her at the car repair shop, she can't troll for the men there. If you are WITH HER at home during your time off, she can't troll for men. If she doesn't have opposite sex friendships then she is less likely to bed men.

You need to arrange your lives in a way that it would be virtually impossible for her to chase men. That means spending all your off time together and changing her job so she is working with WOMEN.

I see no "work" on this at all in this regard. Saying you are "working on" the problem and making no changes is just empty talk.

Please listen to the radio clip Susie posted about addicts. Dr Harley explains exactly what I have been telling you over and over again.