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but how without time can I know if she has changed or is improving in this area. She could be talking the talk, but without the walk means nothing to me. The walk means nothing unless the OPPORTUNITIES ARE REMOVED.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Susie, You and Mel have both told me this. I have not disagreed with either of you on this. I am currently exploring our options for a change. As I continue to say, we cannot destroy our finances while our marriage is at a brink of destruction and expect to save either. We have to take our time on this decision as it can make or brake us. I am currently in negotiation with her employer to be hired there. This would put me in a position to know exactly what she is doing at work.
This subject is a prority and will not happen overnight, but in the meantime I want to continue to discuss and (do) other things that might save our marriage.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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We have a book titled Boundaries and have been reading it (actually have two copies). It is Christian based, does not spacifically apply to affairs, but does have some usefull tips and ideas in it.
I know how my boundries apply to me, and how I have maintained throughout the years without having an A, but how without time can I know if she has changed or is improving in this area. She could be talking the talk, but without the walk means nothing to me. senn, we gave her pointers to all the information she needs to implement boundaries, months ago. Either she is going to do it, or not. She doesn't need to go buy another book and take a college level course in it; she just needs to do it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Marcos, "I try but never could", point taken. I jump on the WW when she uses these types of phrases, and I deserve the same.
To be honest, I know all to well my WW has a major boundary issue. Yet I have little knowledge in how to gauge her improvements in this area. We discuss it and "work" on it, but only by her actions can I gauge or grade her improvemets. Any ideas?
We have a book titled Boundaries and have been reading it (actually have two copies). It is Christian based, does not spacifically apply to affairs, but does have some usefull tips and ideas in it.
I know how my boundries apply to me, and how I have maintained throughout the years without having an A, but how without time can I know if she has changed or is improving in this area. She could be talking the talk, but without the walk means nothing to me. How? Well, first off, there is no "imrpvoement!! Its like saying "well, honey, I used to only hang out at the bar with 10 guys. Now I only hang out with 7. That's improvement." Bull!! She either puts the boundaries in place or she has no boundaries. Its like saying with my fish tank analogy that hey, three sides have glass. Who cares? Without all four sides having glass, it is still the same result...water all over the floor! She MUST, I say MUST implement boundaries IMMEDIATELY! No contact, no being in situations where she is alone with other men. And others where it would put her in contact with men. She is just not allowed to do this for the REST OF HER LIFE! Those are boundaries. They are very easy to put up. And very easy to check on. If she works with a bunch of men, she QUITS! IMMEDIATELY! If she is in the habit of going out with the girls to places where there are men, she STOPS going IMMEDIATELY!! She has lost the ability to do these things and remain married. I have read her thread...and yours. You two still dont get this!! The boundaries can and must be put in place IMMEDIATELY. Until then, it is useless to pour water into the tank. It isnt even worth trying!
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Hello all,
My stbxww has always had terrible boundary issues. This was exactly why she had her affairs. When we tried to reconcile I knew in my gut that she couldn't adhere to the EP's. She said that she couldn't operate in a controlling marriage. She was sooo right!!
I highly doubt that she could ever change..
I do like the part that mortarman brought up about you might be in a marriage with no EN's being met, AO's, and DJ's being said but if you both have strong boundaries an affair probably won't occur. Guess that's why so many people live as roommates.
I like this thread..
Me-BH-39
WW-34 (Strugglingaz)
Married 7-dated 3 previous
D-10
D-6
1st D-day-2-26-11 2nd D-day-5-17-11
NC-3-9-11---Broke 4-2-11, 4-8-11-,5-16-11 Maybe more
BH-Filed for D-5-17-2011
Divorced 2-21-2012
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This subject is a prority and will not happen overnight, but in the meantime I want to continue to discuss and (do) other things that might save our marriage. I don't think we have suggested that the job change can happen overnight, but you have been here for over a month and it doesn't seem like you are taking the lifestyle changes seriously, given the fact that you keep trying to talk about other solutions. Have you listened to the clip? Dr Harley doesn't suggest that I have my STBX read a book on boundaries. In fact, he tells me that he has developed a skillset in chasing after women and that it is going to be "a real trick" getting him to give that up. Again, I think this is true for your WW, moreso because she has had many more affairs than my STBX did. The situation you are in now...is ripe for your WW to have another affair, senn. The fact that you two don't acknowledge this is very alarming.
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Susie, You and Mel have both told me this. I have not disagreed with either of you on this. I am currently exploring our options for a change. As I continue to say, we cannot destroy our finances while our marriage is at a brink of destruction and expect to save either. We have to take our time on this decision as it can make or brake us. I am currently in negotiation with her employer to be hired there. This would put me in a position to know exactly what she is doing at work.
This subject is a prority and will not happen overnight, but in the meantime I want to continue to discuss and (do) other things that might save our marriage. Senn, please give this a listen: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=652Implementing further steps do not help until you take step one. Recovery does not start until you take step one. It doesn't matter how many Harley books or how many Clouds and Townshend books you buy. Step one has got to happen. In her case, step one is a little different, she she is not addicted to any one specific man, but to the thrill of chasing men, in general.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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I have read her thread...and yours. You two still dont get this!! The boundaries can and must be put in place IMMEDIATELY. Until then, it is useless to pour water into the tank. It isnt even worth trying! This is my feeling exactly. Nothing has changed here. They don't get it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Senn, I have already posted to you several times that I have spoken to Dr Harley about my serial cheating STBX WH and that his advice was to focus in on making lifestyle/environment changes but you seem really resistant to this. Dr. Harley preaches implementing all of his concepts to prevent an A, as one concept can or does compliment another. His ideas creates a web of protection for a marriage. Actually Dr H said this to me: "It is the conditions that have more to do with unfaithfulness than, say, a bad marriage or the fact that ENs are not being met..." He later tells me that my STBX could be considered an addict and that for someone like this you take away the opportunity, you control the environment to such an extent that it is impossible to cheat. Take a listen, about 5 minutes in. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3009FANTASTIC RADIO CLIP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dr Harley doesn't suggest that I have my STBX read a book on boundaries. In fact, he tells me that he has developed a skillset in chasing after women and that it is going to be "a real trick" getting him to give that up. Susie - can you explain more about this? Specifics to why Dr. Harley doesn't think STBWXH will change here? Is it his peer influence or a character influence?
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Dr Harley doesn't suggest that I have my STBX read a book on boundaries. In fact, he tells me that he has developed a skillset in chasing after women and that it is going to be "a real trick" getting him to give that up. Susie - can you explain more about this? Specifics to why Dr. Harley doesn't think STBWXH will change here? Is it his peer influence or a character influence? It is an addiction. Did you listen to the radio clip?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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It is an addiction. Did you listen to the radio clip? Excellent clip. No lie.
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There's two of them, Pep; one from me, one from Susie. Collect them all!  TJ: I realized recently that I'm nearing the end of listening through 2007. At that point (there are no 2008 and 2009 shows in the archive), I think I will have essentially listened to them all.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Dr Harley doesn't suggest that I have my STBX read a book on boundaries. In fact, he tells me that he has developed a skillset in chasing after women and that it is going to be "a real trick" getting him to give that up. Susie - can you explain more about this? Specifics to why Dr. Harley doesn't think STBWXH will change here? Is it his peer influence or a character influence? It is an addiction. Did you listen to the radio clip? Susie's STBXH is addicted to an unquenchable thirst for admiration. Again, we are back to EP's/Boundaries He has an UNWILLINGNESS to allow ONLY his wife to meet his need for this admiration. AGAIN, NO EP'S! NO BOUNDARIES! add in the ENTITLEMENT and IB and you have a recipe for multiple affairs.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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I'm at work, and spending way too much time on here. I definately can't listen to the clip. I will have to wait until I get home and download it for an hour or to on my super slow internet to list to a clip.
Me BH previous user name SEM
WW Senninpaswife previous user name Keep Smiling
Married 16 years - HS sweethearts
2 kids, Boy 15 years, Girl 13 years
WW's Affair #1,2,3,4 @ 1 year into marriage All ONS type PAs
DDay #1 09/11/01 False recovery for 10 years
WW's Affair #5 07/11 - 10/11 with my best friend EA&PA
DDay #2 11/27/11
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Will listen to clips tonight. Thanks All!!!
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I've had the opportunity to work with more than a few waywards on and off the boards. I've learned a great deal about them and about myself in the process....
I've noticed a couple things regarding the waywards that were in multiple affairs.
1) Only when they've hit bottom is it possible for them to stop their destructive behavior.
2) By the time they confess all they've done, their BS is so decimated that recovery becomes nearly unimaginable and often undesirable.
3) The weekend forum has several multiple FWS's that I've watched consistently, and they still seem to habitually withhold information while trying to recover. I don't mean affair related information, I mean day to day operating information.
I'll be back when I have more time, I really think this will be a good discussion I think you brought up two key points of discussion... withholding info and the BS being so decimated (since this is happening again) that they have not the energy to save the marriage, even if the WS is sincere this time.I would like to look more into that...because it seems to me that any recovery in this situation would be very vulnerable to sabotage from the BS. Both of these happened in our situation as well, due to a false recovery coupled with all the lies I told to hide my affair. For those that don't remember, very abridged version; I told my wife I had several affairs over the course of our marriage. I convinced her that I was not currently involved in any affairs. We began marriage counseling, etc.... all the while I was actively involved in the only affair I'd ever had. My head was so twisted sideways that I had no clue at that time what my deception was setting up. I believe recovery after false recoveries can be very vulnerable to sabotage from the BS too. Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmer walked us through some horrendous fields, that were covered with land mines, in order to guide us into recovery. My wife admits she became the greatest obstacle in our recovery, as she had no energy remaining to fight for us. She was decimated!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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There are two couples I follow on the weekend forum;
I've also developed friendships off the boards with these FWH's
Danceswithgoats & her FWH GreenMile
Sunflower55 & her FWH rfwihd (regretful for what I have done)
Both of these FWH's have been remorseful, yet their BS's have yet to really engage in the MB Program roadmap.
These BS's struggle with the fact that meeting their FWH's need's actually triggers them! The assignments trigger them as well! Dr. Harley gently try's to persuade them to work his plan, but they are very resistant to laying themselves out there for more pain/triggers.
Just an observation!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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This is kind of the point I was trying to raise. What happens when you hit recovery, true recovery where the WS is ready to go the extra mile...and the BS is just spent?
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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"My wife admits she became the greatest obstacle in our recovery, as she had no energy remaining to fight for us. She was decimated!"
This is a very telling statement.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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