Our recovery was nothing short of a miracle!

I tell people in this situation to do exactly what Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers told me....

You either carry the weight of the recovery, for as long as it takes, or allow your BS the peace of PlanD.

Not an exact quote, but it's pretty close!

I wonder how hard it is for someone to do that who had so little invested in the first place?

Like tst said, there are several marriages over on the weekend forum where the BS seems to not even care anymore. Harley addresses this point:

Back to this one,

As Melody and yourself have pointed out....

It all depends on how willing they are to develop comprehensive EP's.

If they will not put together a list, it speaks loud and clear!

I created a thread on this very topic, Here ----> Link to EP Thread

They have no clue where to start!

Mel,
I have seen you repeat this several times. I am currently going through a funk where I don't have much energy or will to continue. Are you suggesting go with that feeling? I am up and down on this, and WW seems to pull me through when I am at rock bottom. I am putting a lot of thought into plan D, but feel I must give it a chance to see if she can pull me through it to a point where I want to pick up the slack.

HPB, I think my WW lack of posting here, and her inability to articulate her actions are creating a situation where nobody has a whole lot of faith in her or hope for our marriage. How do you suppose she change that. What I am seeing is a real interest from her in saving our marriage, yet she is unable to describe it, and I am not the best judge of it. What can she do on this forum to get the positive feedback.

Senningpa, you cannot judge ANY of her actions until the boundaries are set in place. I nstone.

I believe she is just like SusieQ's STBXH.... She's an admiration junkie!

With that in mind....

Until she lists out her EP's, just as I've described on the EP thread and actually puts her defensiveness away, she's going to be seen for what she is delivering..... Half measures!

And as I've learned the hard way, Half Measures avail us NOTHING! The don't get us Half, they get us nothing.

As Mortarman described, BOUNDARIES - IN STONE!

Senn,

"What I am seeing is a real interest from her in saving our marriage, yet she is unable to describe it"


It's impossible to describe floating boundaries.

That which is concrete, is extremely easy to describe.

Senn, EP's are not abstract, they are very concrete. And IF she chooses to implement them, she WILL be able to describe them here as well. People are usually able to talk about what they are DOING and discuss these things in detail, ask questions. She hasn't asked or described anything particular yet which shows she is actually implementing EPs.

I have seen no indicators from sennswife that she is serious about recovering her marriage. The only thing she is serious about is getting senn off her back so she can go to chasing men in peace. No remorse, no plan, no nothing.

She has not even acknowledged she has an addiction of chasing men and instead DEMANDS we leave the past in the past and never mention her past affairs. That is not remorse and that is not someone who is serious about saving her marriage. She knows that senn will tolerate will never do anything so she has no reason to change.

The one indication I saw was the no contact letter, which I think finally did get sent. But I was never sure if it was Dr. Harley's no contact letter, or one of her own (WS usually write their own NC letters full of weasel words). And that seems to be it. She still doesn't get extraordinary precautions, so far as I can tell, or she would QUIT her job NOW and start looking for a new job LATER.

And the NC letter really isn't that much for her to give on, because she's not really addicted to a specific man, she's addicted to CHASING MEN in general. She can't write a NC letter to that, she can only stop entering that environment ever again, starting now.

When held to the fire to do something, she picked a tiny little concession that didn't cost her much: the NC letter. When held to the fire to do more specific things (quit her job), she ran away from the board and whined that she wasn't getting the positive feedback she needs/wants. She is literally blaming her failure to follow the program on other people not admiring her. I'm guessing she's big into the disproven theory that you can't do right in life without high self-esteem? It's actually the other way around: if you do right in life, then you will reap self-esteem from that.

Senn, what is the plan if you are unable to work with your wife? Will she quit THAT DAY?

From what I understand, you've been scrupulous about managing your finances and debt, so her being out of work a few weeks while looking for a new job should not be a devastating blow.

Hi MM,

It has been a long time. I haven't been around here much either. Too busy with life these days, some good, some bad.

I liked your question and having read only few of the pages, little time today, I would only add to what others have said.

The attitude of the WS is far more important than the number of affairs in the past. And frankly the attitude/perspective does take time to change, so when someone (bs/ws) comes here, I always felt it was good to give it some time for perspective to change and the information that they obtained here to sink in.

I will say that Pep is also right. If someone won't listen, won't try, and really just wants validation, there isn't much to be done.

I firmly believe that people can grow and change if they are motivated to do so. And some of that motivation MUST come from within.

Just thoughts,

JL

But making you feel good temporarily does not affair proof your marriage. There is no chance, no hope unless she implements EPs and solid boundaries. She is not even remotely seriously about doing that. That should be the first step.


Sincere interest would be backed up with real action. There is none here. Just a bunch of smoke and mirrors ["reading books," "calling my husband"] It takes no articulation whatsoever to write out your plan to affair proof your marriage. She has no plan. She will never get positive feedback on this forum until she is serious. The negative feedback comes from the fact that she is not serious.

Senn, when MelodyLane tells you what the first step is, she's not just giving you her personal opinion. She is repeating the findings of Dr. Harley, who has been doing this and specializing in this for forty years. He knows what works, and he says it is a very narrow path, and that if you don't follow that path, it won't work!

And you guys proved that before.

I just really wish you'd plug into Dr. Harley as a source of help.

JL, my old friend. For some who havent been here very long, JL was one of the key people back when I was in the middle of the darkest days...who kept me on the straight and narrow. To this day, the idea that the right answers almost always materialize if we are patient and observant, came straight from JL...and I hang my hat on that. No more impulsive reactions!!

JL, I hope you are doing well.

I agree that attitude is everything. But I am more interested in what happens when the one fighting for the marriage begins to lose interest, especially around the time that the WS comes out of the fog and is truly interested in recovery.

Hi JL,

It's interesting that you mention attitude.

SMB said that was the critical.

Here is what she required of me to agree to before engaging in recovery with me.


I noticed, most of these have to do with an attitude of repentance, and require action steps to back it up, starting with complete surrender.

....As opposed to an attitude of entitlement.

JL was on here when I was here 10 years ago. Don't remember the story but remember the name.

MM,

You ask the hardest questions
My answer? Ok, I could not resist, but it is true. The data will tell the BS what to do. BUT, if the WS is interested in recovery, it is incumbent upon them to provide some of the energy for recovery as the BS is no doubt running very low.

Hope you and your family are doing well MM.

God Bless,

JL