I would make sure everyone knows all about this. Hopefully you are not keeping this intel secret. Did you confront your WW with this information?

You did the right thing in inviting her to Christmas but you need to be diligent and continue applying pressure on the affair. Let her parents know the affair has never ended.

I have let everyone know that the A has not ended. My FIL was especially upset because WW had told him that once she moved out she was going to take a break from everything and use the time to work things out in her head (or some crap like that).

Yeah, she has lost all respect for you. I don't care how warm and comfortable you make your home. Keep us updated.

Which will (and probably sooner rather than later) pale by comparison to the respect she loses for herself one day.

Do they all know what the OMW just told you? Did you tell them and did you tell your W you know this and have told everyone? This is the kind of intel that needs to be EXPOSED. And exposure is meaningless unless the WW knows it has been done. Will the FIL ever welcome the OM into his family?

SS, it is real important that you keep the heat up on the affair and don't drop the ball here.

Yes, I have spread the word on this news (parents, sister, in-laws, friends, co-workers).

My in-laws have made it abundantly clear that WW is never to bring OM to their door. They are furious. I do worry that their relationship with their daughter may be permanently damaged no matter which way this all ends up going.

SS, her relationship with her parents will be hers to fix, if she becomes a former and repentant wayward. Until then, she's not a great daughter anyways. Adultery changes the person to their core.

You are right and I do realize that. WW and her mother have not had a great relationship since before I even met WW. I have been a sort of buffer between them for a long time. An IM? I have been doing less and less intervening or smoothing of feathers because they now talk so infrequently. My FIL is feeling like he is walking a very fine line. On the one hand he is furious and deeply upset at what WW is doing and on the other hand he feels like if he says the wrong thing, he is going to lose his only child. I can tell he is torn. I have told him that no matter what happens he will always have me as a son. He is at least talking with WW regularly and she does listen to him. Whether she hears what he is saying is another story.

The IC that WW is seeing gives her plenty of homework. This past week she was told to read a specific book on helping people in troubled marriages. It was not MB material, but isn't this a positive sign? I have not probed WW to ask her about what she learned. I am trying to play it cool right now and not seem to needy for information.

WW and I still talk multiple times each day. We have plenty to talk about concerning work now that she has started working again. WW complemented me on how I was dressed yesterday. I realize it was a minor comment but it was still nice to hear.

My in-laws are out visiting for the week to help out with the kids. They are staying here at the house. I had to work today but WW came over to the house to see her parents before they left. We had a few inches of snow and WW snow blowed the driveway. She also picked up supper and got the kids ready for bed. Not sure if she was trying to prove something in front of her parents or if she was jut trying to be nice. Either way, I thanked her just the same.

I am feeling like WW is right now content to let things just continue going the way they are indefinitely. I don't think she has any real intention in seeking a divorce on her own. If I initiated D paperwork, my guess is she would sign to "set me free" or something.

I received an email from OMW who is now OMXW confirming that OM was up this way visiting some time in the last few weeks. This A is not showing any signs of burning out. From what I understand, Dr. Harley recommends a BH stay in plan A as long as possible and then move into a plan B. I still have the energy to plan A but I was wondering if a change to plan B would be recommended sooner rather than later. I also understand that a plan A alone doesn't have a high success rate. It is more often a prelude to a plan B.

I have a ton of supporters around me (family and friends). They have been a tremendous help. I feel like people are nudging me toward filing for D and getting this all over with. I am not there right now so it is hard some days keeping up the fight and staying vigilant. Even though I have many loving and supportive people around me, I do feel alone at times.

SS, I would give Plan A about a 50% success rate, so my money is on you. On the other hand, the odds that an affair will ever make it to marriage is about 5%. I would continue to hold out as long as you can stand it.

One thing I would consider is perhaps filing for divorce or separation just to protect yourself LEGALLY. She is very likely to sign papers giving you primary custody while she is in heat over the OM. If you wait to do that, she might start having second thoughts.

I don't get the impression that WW ever intends to get married again should we end up getting a divorce. I feel like she is looking at the situation like there is no real difference to her no matter what happens (divorce or no divorce). Right now she is going to carry on with what she is doing either way indefinitely. I also don't think she would sign custody papers if I went after primary custody. She is looking at this as a simple 50/50 split, even though she only has the kids 4 overnights/month right now. I need to think about that part of it some more. Maybe I am wrong, I am thinking that if I push the subject and go after primary custody that would disrupt the apple cart and she would no longer be cooperative. Then again, maybe that is exactly what I should be doing. Like I said, I need to think about that some more. I was also feeling like I was setting precident by having the kids the vast majority of the time and riding that for a few months (it has only been about 6 weeks).

I am thinking that the OM just made some major LB deposits with WW. His stepping up and actually going through with the divorce must be seen as a huge gesture to WW that he is serious about their disgusting affair. That is tough to compete with. I keep reminding myself that I have to stay on plan and can only play my part. I am continuing to plan A.

How are you enforcing the "stick" part of Plan A? Remember, Plan A is BOTH the carrot AND the stick.

Have you spoken to an attorney to find out how long you would need to have the children with you the majority of the time for it to be most beneficial? Is there any advantage in your state if you were to file for a D first? You could tell your attorney that you want to drag it out. Just a thought.

Could it be possible that your WW sees remaining married to you as more beneficial because of finances/etc?

I have reminded WW that if we do end up divorcing that we will not continue to be friends. I have continued to keep people updated about the ongoing A. I have made it abundantly clear to WW that at no time will our kids be in the presence of OM. I have told WW as recently as last week how much this is devastating to me and our family. I have encouraged the kids to direct some of their questions to WW that feel like I am having to answer daily.

I have thought about the financial benefit angle to WW. Her new job pays slightly less than my position. I don't know if there is much of a financial benefit for staying married. WW is blowing through money right now. She is also paying for all of her credit cards. Another reason that I thought the legal side of things could wait is that her war chest is being depleted by the day.

I will follow up with my attorney about strategies.

As if she can answer them. Their mother is abandoning them and leaving them with you 26 out of 30 days a month...her "answers" for that will be nothing but wayward bullcrud. I wouldn't encourage them to ask your WW anything because you are the only sane parent that can attempt to answer their questions properly.


I mentioned on the last page delaying any divorce if she's giving you 90% custody....but I didn't do that anticipating you remaining in Plan A. Most guys that come here can't Plan B because their wayward wives won't move out...yours has...Plan B should be relatively easy to implement and WHEN you do it...your Plan B letter should definitely make a passing reference to the current custody arrangement in order to further document it for the court. I hope you are keeping really good notes and communicating by email/text about when she's spending anytime with the kids. You are doing great on the custody battle so far.

Many WW's remarry because their divorce decrees mandate they can't expose the kids to unrelated overnight guests. If they marry OM...he's suddenly related.

Mr. Wondering

I figured that if WW was getting questions from the kids then reality might sink in some. I agree, her responses would be total garbage.

I have a log that I am keeping of days that WW has bailed out of watching the kids. Some of them have been legit (she had the stomach flu). Others, not so much (a night out to see a band w/OM).

Good point on the overnight guest maneuver. I hadn't thought of that angle.

Have you ever read Eph525's old threads????


He did Plan A, then Plan B and eventually divorced AND got full custody of his two young children.

Here's the start: Eph525 Plan A


Then you can link to his major Plan B thread from his signature line.


His divorce was final March 2008....and then in March 2009 his wife took him to court again trying to get 50-50 custody of his kids. Eph525 Custody Wars

I don't know if that last thread ever came to a conclusion because I think her last filing in March of 2009 never actually went to court. It was a filing that just hung out there indefinitely as if she was somehow comforted by the fact she was forever fighting for more custody without actually taking the battle to court where she'd lose. She even suggested at one time that she be allowed more custody over the daughter but not the son..because she was closer to her daughter. Whacko.

Point is...your situation could recover or it may not. If it doesn't you are going to have to become a legal expert over your own situation to protect those children for her to the greatest extent possible. Her entitlement WILL rear it's head in presumptive demands for 50% or more custody especially if it potentially means more money (for her) in support. Keep journaling and hand written dated entries make for great testimony in court (contemporaneous notes are allowed to be read into the court record and carry much more weight than your waywards wives' obviously distorted past recollection).


BTW...eph525 is now happily remarried a complete MB success story.

Mr. Wondering

another old poster with a different outcome (reconciliation even after separation) is mywifeilove. Don't have a link handy but you can search for him using the search function.

He went into Plan B and then BACK into Plan A while separated...so could be an interesting read for you.


Mr. W

Thanks, I have read through mywifeilove's thread. That helped. If I remember right, he went back and forth between plan A & B a few times before things wrapped up for him. I will check out Eph525's thread as soon as I look up what contemporaneous means.

I invited WW over for supper tonight after she dropped the kids off at the house and she accepted which was a surprise. I was busy making supper when she got here so it wasn't until we were into the meal that I noticed that she is no longer even wearing her wedding band. That caught me off guard and she asked me what was up. This turned into about an hour long chat about us and what lies ahead and all that.

I asked her if she knew what she wanted in life when it comes to relationships. She said that she doesn't think that she can ever be in a long term relationship with anyone. The concept doesn't work for her. She feels too controlled. She was always the happiest when she was dating and living alone. She says this also goes for the OM and has told him repeatedly and recently that she does not want a long term relationship with him. He had asked her if he could move in with her and she told him flat out no. WW said that OM and I are both after the same thing and it isn't something she can give to anyone.

I keep telling myself this is all fog babble and if I keep up the fight there is still a chance that she will gain some clarity at some point and perhaps see the mistakes she has made and want to try to fix them. I look at our kids and tell myself that I owe it to them not to just throw in the towel during difficult times like these.

Is what WW is saying about her inability to function in a long term committed relationship something common for someone in the fog?

I confirmed that OM saw her again last week. I am unsure what I should be doing to try to kill this A. WW is living on her own. At this point, beyond protecting the kids and continuing to plan A is there anything else I should be doing? I have been keeping my exposure targets up to date with what is going on with the A. Is it just a waiting game at this point? Waiting for the A to die on its own?

I was thinking over the weekend about what I need to ask my L about LSA papers. The more I thought about it, the more I questioned what the point was. In the end, I can't really expect anything other than 50/50 visitation. That is what WW wants and that is what gets awarded 90% of the time here according to my L. The other 10% is when there is abuse or drugs involved which is not our case. Where my head is right now is basically, what is the point? I don't know.